What are you using as joystick?

[Nic727]

Hi,

 

What are you using as joystick?

 

Personally, I have an old Microsoft Sidewinder 2. I really love the ergonomic part of this joystick. Everything is simple on it. The only problem is that there is no force feedback and the design is a bit old. I was looking for joystick with force feedback last month, but most of them have fake force feedback with a spring or the design is not very good (at least for me).

 

The only good joystick that I found is this one : http://gaming.logitech.com/fr-ca/product/extreme-3d-pro-joystick

 

And for the mic, are you using a wireless/Bluetooth headphone and mic?

 

Thank you

[Luft1942]

I'm using a VKB Gladiator and it's a really great stick for $100 USD. It performs 10x better then my old 3D Pro. Here is a link to their website:

 

http://www.gostratojet.com/Gladiator/index.html

 

You really can't go wrong with this stick and it won't disappoint

[9./JG27golani79]

I'm using a MS Sidewinder FFB 2 - before that i was using the X-55 stick.

[Bearfoot]

Thrustmaster Warthog + 20cm extension.

 

Hoping to get the VKB Gunfighter + extension when it comes out.

[Sokol1]

 

 Microsoft Sidewinder 2. The only problem is that there is no force feedback and the design is a bit old.

 

Nic727,

 

The fact that this stick design are old don't means bad - most of latter "designs" are worse (e.g. Saitek's Kosmosimov's, Transformer's designs).

 

Ergonomics wise Logitech 3D PRO is good, but plagued be bad potentiometers, as the others.

 

I imagine be "Sidewinder 2" you mean Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 USB. If is, most of actual entry level "2 in 1" joystcks don't surpass their specifications.

10 bits* controller (1024 steeps on axis course), good quality potentiometers. The industry standard today is "low cost possible potentiometers", and CH still selling 8 bits (256 steeps) controller based joysticks.

 

"Pero, no todo esta perdido."

 

Slowly the industry is adopting contactless sensors (HALL, magnetic resistance) for replace potentiometers in joystick main axis at least, X and Y. 

Potentiometer worm whit use and cause spikes in axis response. The only really good pot' is one used in Microsoft and CH joysticks.

 

So, based on this the only joysticks "entry-level" - the "3in1"(joy/throttle/rudder) that you should buy is:

 

- Thrustmaster T.16000M - HALL Sensor in X, Y axis.

- Defender Cobra M5 - Magnetic Resistence in X, Y axis. This model is find, with their correct price ~60$ in Europe, Amazom.com list then for 120$ - no way.

- AIRROW - Magnetic Resistence in X,Y axis.  As is new model is only available in Europe, and a bit priced ~90$, as this is supposedly to be a "low cost" version of the next, the Gladiator.

- Gladiator - Magnetic Resistence in X, Y axis and exclusive in "twist rudder" axis. Too, as be new model has low availability, in US (Stratojet, Amazon) and in China.

 

Are dozen of topics about Gladiator Joysticks there, who use the latest available electronic technologies, e.g. Magnet Resistence Sensors contactless, and advance center mechanism in the PRO version - the "Next Gen" CAM gimbal system, what surpassed any system used by traditional brands. And their makers are "Flight Simmers".

 

Although Gladiator come more expensive that others "3in" in the market is a option to consider.

 

IMO - Don't be impressed by Warthog HOTAS look, this is not the best 'toy' for win online dogfights in WWII CFS/G.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Sokol1

[II/JG11_ATLAN_VR]

Ch combat stick and Ch throttle pro plus Saitek rudders its nice

[Matt]

FFB is well done in BoS, so you should probably consider looking for a used MS FFB2 stick. If it would feature more hats and buttons i think i would keep using it until it falls apart.

 

For now until my pedal replacements arrive, i also use the FFB2 and then i'll move back to the Warthog and i plan to use the Gunfighter (with Warthog grip) in the future.

 

I think currently the Gladiator and Gladiator Pro are the best sticks you can buy for their price points so they are currently the only sticks i would consider buying new.

[Jade_Monkey]

Im using the X55 HOTAS.

 

It's pretty good for a midrange stick.

Fortunately I didn't have the QC issues some other people had. It's a good value for that pricepoint.

 

It's all plastic though, so im starting to think about making an upgrade to a more solid stick, like some of the higher end VKB. Also looking for a good set of pedals.

[Guest deleted@1562]

I'm using my Warthog HOTAS again and returned the Speedlink Airrow as it developed a clunk noise when passing through the center from right to left. 

[Bearfoot]

Im using the X55 HOTAS.

 

It's pretty good for a midrange stick.

Fortunately I didn't have the QC issues some other people had. It's a good value for that pricepoint.

 

It's all plastic though, so im starting to think about making an upgrade to a more solid stick, like some of the higher end VKB. Also looking for a good set of pedals.

 

I have just gone through the pedal-upgrade evolution, and done a whole bunch of sweating/agonizing/research, etc. The reasonable choices were: VKB T-Rudder IV, MFG Crosswinds, BRD F3. Nothing to choice from between in these in terms of strength, precision, build, robustness, craftsmanship, and quality. VKB and BRD are all metal, MFG are mostly composite.

 

VKB vs all the rest:

 

1. Do you want the up/down action (like car pedals or western helicopter anti-torque pedals) vs. swivel action (back and forth, like most fixed-wing pedals)? 
2. Do you want (or rather, not want) dedicated toe brakes (differential braking emulated using software; i.e. exact simulation of Russian/British aircraft, rather than German/US)?
3. Looks/design/aesthetics.

 

MFG vs. BRD:

 

1. While both are swivel style, MFG motion follows a very shallow curve in the horizontal plane, i.e. your foot sketches a curve going out and then in as you go from minimum deflection to neutral to maximum deflection; BRD (I think) is straight back and forth. BRD motion probably follows more authentically the actual motion of RL a/c (as can be seen by corresponding animation in cockpit!), but whether or not this makes practical difference is up to you
2. MFG has a lot of configuration options, e.g. swappable cams, adjustable spring tension, adjustable brake tension, adjustable pedal angle. BRD also must have configuration options, but I have not been able to determine 100% what exactly they are: I think swappable spring, but not sure if "dial-in" tension like MFG, and I read about newer versions might have swappable cam, but not sure if this means with pedals you order now or far in the future. If anyone knows, please clarify!
3. Looks/design/aesthetics.

 

In any case, I think you cannot go wrong with any of these, as long as you recognize and are happy with the design trade-offs. I decided on the MFG for myself.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Bearfoot

[Lusekofte]

Maxflig

 

Non centering maxflightstick , this is mine testing before sending, just tried it for a week due to work and vacation, coming home this weekend . Will test it further

Edited September 12, 2016 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Jade_Monkey]

I have just gone through the pedal-upgrade evolution, and done a whole bunch of sweating/agonizing/research, etc. The reasonable choices were: VKB T-Rudder IV, MFG Crosswinds, BRD F3. Nothing to choice from between in these in terms of strength, precision, build, robustness, craftsmanship, and quality. VKB and BRD are all metal, MFG are mostly composite.

 

VKB vs all the rest:

 

1. Do you want the up/down action (like car pedals or western helicopter anti-torque pedals) vs. swivel action (back and forth, like most fixed-wing pedals)? 
2. Do you want (or rather, not want) dedicated toe brakes (differential braking emulated using software; i.e. exact simulation of Russian/British aircraft, rather than German/US)?
3. Looks/design/aesthetics.

 

MFG vs. BRD:

 

1. While both are swivel style, MFG motion follows a very shallow curve in the horizontal plane, i.e. your foot sketches a curve going out and then in as you go from minimum deflection to neutral to maximum deflection; BRD (I think) is straight back and forth. BRD motion probably follows more authentically the actual motion of RL a/c (as can be seen by corresponding animation in cockpit!), but whether or not this makes practical difference is up to you
2. MFG has a lot of configuration options, e.g. swappable cams, adjustable spring tension, adjustable brake tension, adjustable pedal angle. BRD also must have configuration options, but I have not been able to determine 100% what exactly they are: I think swappable spring, but not sure if "dial-in" tension like MFG, and I read about newer versions might have swappable cam, but not sure if this means with pedals you order now or far in the future. If anyone knows, please clarify!
3. Looks/design/aesthetics.

 

In any case, I think you cannot go wrong with any of these, as long as you recognize and are happy with the design trade-offs. I decided on the MFG for myself.

 

 

I really appreciate it!

[Sokol1]

 

MFG vs. BRD:

 

 BRD (I think) is straight back and forth. 

 

No, they use the same  "deformable parallelogram"  kinematics of MFG, Slaw, old Simped, old Tm RCS, in all the movement is on arc of a circle, and since all have two bars, the pedal pad remain straight.

 

To have a straight back and forth movement is need a rail system, what is used by CH, Saitek's, and new Tm TFRP.

 

Comparison between Slaw and BRD kinematics, the smaller circle of MFG movement - due the T frame -  increase the angle of center bars inclination what give then theoretical advantage in sensor heading - if used the same sensor in both, what is not the case.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2014/08/full-35288-84612-baloo_or_simped_vs_crosswind_principle.jpg

 

Baur "M" models have that  "exotic" frame because (like T-Rudder) take in mind operation in restrict spaces:

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=7956

 

In full deflection pads don't hit the wall.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Sokol1

[Bearfoot]

No, they use the same  "deformable parallelogram"  kinematics of MFG, Slaw, old Simped, old Tm RCS, in all the movement is on arc of a circle, and since all have two bars, the pedal pad remain straight.

 

To have a straight back and forth movement is need a rail system, what is used by CH, Saitek's, and new Tm TFRP.

 

Comparison between Slaw and BRD kinematics, the smaller circle of MFG movement - due the T frame -  increase the angle of center bars inclination what give then theoretical advantage in sensor heading - if used the same sensor in both, what is not the case.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2014/08/full-35288-84612-baloo_or_simped_vs_crosswind_principle.jpg

 

Baur "M" models have that  "exotic" frame because (like T-Rudder) take in mind operation in restrict spaces:

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=7956

 

In full deflection pads don't hit the wall.

 

Thanks for pointing this out. Good to know!

 

So then MFG vs BRD comes down to (a) configurability; (b) looks/design/aesthetics.

 

I suspect that (a) might, in practice, be a wash? In which case, it is all down to visual appeal?

[dburne]

TM Warthog Joystick with 7.5cm extension.

It combined with my MFG Crosswind pedals I have been very pleased with.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I've just replaced this:

 

For this:

 

[Matt]

That's an ok upgrade I think. I just ordered T-Rudder Mk.IV.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Nice, hope that you will like it Matt  

[unreasonable]

Maxflig

 

Non centering maxflightstick , this is mine testing before sending, just tried it for a week due to work and vacation, coming home this weekend . Will test it further

 

My burglars are on their way to your house as we speak to steal that...... looks great!

 

I use a Logitech G940, and seem to be in the small minority who have never had a problem with it. Force Feedback is great, I can even fly the 190 without stalling.....

[LLv34_Vellu]

Maxflig

 

Non centering maxflightstick , this is mine testing before sending, just tried it for a week due to work and vacation, coming home this weekend . Will test it further

 

Hello LuseKofte do you have any experience a maxflightstick.

 

It looks grate but how it works?

[Eagle-OnePirabee]

I'm using the Saitek Extreme 3D Pro which gives me all sorts of worries. Someone mentioned here something about 'potentiometer' on it being particularly a big drawback and I wonder how. Could anyone elaborate on that, please?

 

For rudders I'm using the Saitek Pro flight Rudders and that's another story on its own. Whenever you spot a 109 F2 barging towards you weaving left and right and spending more time on the grass or snow than on the taxi path - well - that's me.

 

Pirabee.

[Sokol1]

Someone mentioned here something about 'potentiometer' on it being particularly a big drawback and I wonder how. Could anyone elaborate on that, please? 

 

Pirabee

 

I try, but result a bit long:

 

 

 

Potentiometers (pot') is used in joystick for read their axis position (joystick inclination) work based on friction of a "wiper" over resistive surface:

 

 

With use this resistive surface can wear out and induce noise (spikes) is joystick response, or dirt accumulating over this surface can produce spikes too.

Play in pot axis or joystick gimbal can accelerate this process.

 

Pot' are used in most of joystick models, specially in "entry-level" low cost "3in1" (with twist rudder) models,  because are the most cheap option available for read axis position in joystick.

 

For example in OEM (AIRROW, Javelin) versions of VKB Gladiator joystick the Chineses opt to use potentiometer instead contact less sensor used in Gladiator, i their "twist rudder" because the sensor cost, maybe a dollar, but the pot cost ~0.9 cents (in quantity) making less costly the manufacturer proccess, no mater if the market desire and are able to absorb the extra cost of better solution. That modern world economy rules.

 

Fortunately slowly the joystick industry (1) are adopting contact less sensor in place of pot', but even more costly joystick models still using pot', for example Saitek X-5x's HOTAS use pot' in secondary axis: twist, throttle, rotaries.

 

Contactless sensor work measuring the direction or strength of magnetic field:

 

 

So no parts for wear.

 

In "entry level" (twist rudder) joystick models pot' are used with this exceptions:

 

Thrustmaster T.1600M/FCS - contacless sensor in X,Y axis, pot' in twist, throttle.

Defender Cobra M5 - the same

OEM Gladiator versions (AIRROW, Javelin) - the same.

VKB Gladiator - contactless in X,Y and Twist Rudder axis, pot in throttle.

 

Logitech, Saitek "entry- level" pot in all axis.

 

CH even not being "entry-level" models still using pot  - because their projects are from end of 90's of last century.

 

Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog is advertised as use contactless sensor in all axis, but I suspect that their Slider use pot, their format suggest.

 

Important: use contact a less sensor instead a good quality pot will not make the joystick work better per si, but make less problematic and last long.

But, the only really good quality pot used in joystick is the ones in Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 - they are lasting more that a decade (model discontinued in ~2003).

 

An in some degree in CH Products joystick (because this are old projects, when pot are standard), but this joysticks have their problems with loose connections on pot', dirt inside pot's.. what in some cases result "spikes" in axis response.

 

Owners of the expensive (~400$) Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar was plagued with their low cost/quality pot's.

 

Logitech G-940, a model without direct concurrent  - a ForceFeedback HOTAS - was killed in market due use of low cost/quality pot' and short wires (that "Quest for low cost manufacturer").

 

(1) Rudder Pedals  "Next Gen" from small manufactures (Baur, MFG, Slaw, VKB) all use contactless instead pot'.

 

Rudder pedals from traditional brands, CH, Saitek, Thrutstmaster (released this year) use pot'.

 

And before you ask: "Since pot is cheap why not just replace then when became defective?"

 

Because pot' used in joystick use special electrical travel resistive trail, limited to 30~60 degrees instead of 270/300 degrees used in commercial models,

this make then virtually unavailable in electronic stores and for joystick manufacturers is not interesting sell replacements - exception CH Products.

 

So in your next joystick/pedal buy, pay attention to this detail.

 

In R/C transmitter gimbal pot' still the standard - but high end models use contatless sensor, and despite subject to same wear and problems for get replacement (they are that 30~60 degrees special models), are less problematic because their sticks are not operated by hand but fingers, applying less effort over gimbal axis/pot axis.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Sokol1

[xvii-Dietrich]

I have a self-modified joystick from an old second-hand Thrustmaster-X. Basically, I removed the throttle half, and then put in two pots to create a prop-pitch and throttle on the base of the joystick part. I could also re-use some (but not all) push-buttons from the throttle half. The result it this:

 

 

It is not a masterpiece, but it does let me fly. (I'm saving up for something a bit more "professional", but I'm a student, and money is very tight.)

[Dutchvdm]

I've just replaced this:

 

For this:

 

 

Hi Hirochima,

 

How is the Gladiator Pro? I'm still waiting for my combo (Gladiator pro and T-Rudder MkV), and really looking forward to it.

 

Grt M

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I am on the queue for Slaw's improved Bf109 pedals, end of this month propably. For stick I am looking for the VKB Gunfighter with extension or Baur's stick. Throttle setup is still open..Perfect would be a Bf109 style setup or Fw190

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

How is the Gladiator Pro? I'm still waiting for my combo (Gladiator pro and T-Rudder MkV), and really looking forward to it.

I wrote a small review for Matt some time ago, so can post what I've said.

 

 I actually like it, its is a good joystick though its my second or third only and so I dont have that much of an experience to talk and compare. My former stick was Cobra M5 which already was a good design, though due to some choices every revision got worse and worse and I did not get the better one ...

But Gladiator itself is good, first when it arrived in a package I wasnt sure if thats it or someone confused packaging as box was small. Then I opened it and found that it has plenty of gadgets inside, like cams and springs. 

 

The stick itself is relatively light but is made of very nice plastic and I feel comfortable holding it. I like the trigger, I like the 8-way button under thumb and I decided to bind the top button for communication on TS. One thing that I dont like is the "shift" button at the bottom of the stick, I dont have big hands and to comfortable hold it (I set machine gun fire only to shift + trigger) I need to squeeze index and little fingers, so that is the pressure on opposite sides and at the same time aim. Not a good idea, it would be better if that button would be higher or somewhere else. 

 

Base of the stick is heavy, it really is heavy and stable and I saw no need to screw it. I dont use buttons much except for engine starting, closing the canopy and ejecting but thats about it so they have little use for me. 

 

Now when it comes to handling itself, how comfortable I can move it around and that kind of stuff - I must admit it is best stick I've ever had. Really gained some stability in combat and my dogfighting abilities seemed to improve since I simple became more precise, I can ride on stall edge and follow guys steadier. But one thing that I already complained on forums was aileron axis, while pitch is perfect and the feeling of heaviness at the edges is perfect I dont like the same feeling on ailerons. I need full authority and that makes it harder to get full deflections (I use a lot of rolls and reversals when dodging enemies). And there is no way to get rid of that since there is no lighter cam then already installed in Pro model. 

So that would be my only complain. 

[Sokol1]

Now when it comes to handling itself, how comfortable I can move it around and that kind of stuff - I must admit it is best stick I've ever had. Really gained some stability in combat and my dogfighting abilities seemed to improve since I simple became more precise, I can ride on stall edge and follow guys steadier.

 

Think that in the end this is the more important feature in joystick - the aim control, no matter if his look is like in latest badass jet fighter, or their software suite "fry sausages and open beer cans".

 

But one thing that I already complained on forums was aileron axis, while pitch is perfect and the feeling of heaviness at the edges is perfect I dont like the same feeling on ailerons. I need full authority and that makes it harder to get full deflections (I use a lot of rolls and reversals when dodging enemies). And there is no way to get rid of that since there is no lighter cam then already installed in Pro model. 

So that would be my only complain. 

 

Why you don't post this observation on VKB forum? So in future they can revise one CAM profile for more linear aileron response?

 

One thing that I dont like is the "shift" button at the bottom of the stick, I dont have big hands and to comfortable hold it (I set machine gun fire only to shift + trigger) I need to squeeze index and little fingers, so that is the pressure on opposite sides and at the same time aim. Not a good idea, it would be better if that button would be higher or somewhere else. 

 

Since is impossible please "Greek and Trojan's" they have to choose a basic button configuration, but you can change this loading other profile - need update firmware first - so this "pinky" button became a ... button (can be "shift" and button too).

So you can use "pinky" for TS, trigger for MG and top button for cannon (or vice versa).

 

Different profiles available (see readme):

 

http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Profiles/Gladiator/

 

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewforum.php?f=25&sid=89ebb00dae8a500ed479bf5ba8e00031

Edited October 6, 2016 by Sokol1

[Dutchvdm]

Thnx Hiromachi. I picking them up today. Will report my findings.

 

Grt M

[Senilix]

 

 I actually like it, its is a good joystick though its my second or third only and so I dont have that much of an experience to talk and compare. My former stick was Cobra M5 which already was a good design, though due to some choices every revision got worse and worse and I did not get the better one ...

But Gladiator itself is good, first when it arrived in a package I wasnt sure if thats it or someone confused packaging as box was small. Then I opened it and found that it has plenty of gadgets inside, like cams and springs. 

Have you been able to compare it with the TS Warthog?

 

I had a Saitek x52 pro, I liked it a lot, and found it good ergonomically. I broke it after 1,5 year and went over to Warthog. It's way more presice in axis than the X52 were, not as good ergonomic but the quality of the axis are in another League than the Saitek. It really helped improving my flying.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Senilix

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

vkb sim gladiator pro

[BlackDevil]

Only FFB sticks move the neutral position with trim. That is more important to me, than force and shake effects. Using FFB2.

Down side: Does not work on all hardware anymore, as BoS doesn't offer to swap FFB axis.

[Jade_Monkey]

Only FFB sticks move the neutral position with trim. That is more important to me, than force and shake effects. Using FFB2.

Down side: Does not work on all hardware anymore, as BoS doesn't offer to swap FFB axis.

Wow thats pretty cool. I had no idea FFB could do that too.

[Dakpilot]

There are many reasons why MSFFB2 is still so popular

 

with Logitec acquisition of Madcats maybe there is possibility of new FFB stick Logitec being only manufacturer to have tried in modern times ...or VKB? surely the Patent war on FFB responsible for all lack of FFB development must run out soon, when you consider what FFB is available to Car/Race sims, it is a bit sad, seems flight sims are too niche to generate the needed money for royalties and development

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[skline00]

Gladiator.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Have you been able to compare it with the TS Warthog?

 

I had a Saitek x52 pro, I liked it a lot, and found it good ergonomically. I broke it after 1,5 year and went over to Warthog. It's way more presice in axis than the X52 were, not as good ergonomic but the quality of the axis are in another League than the Saitek. It really helped improving my flying.

Not like having two of them close to me. I had opportunity to fly with Warthog more than few times and never liked it, was too heavy for me. Has some nice features but even with short experience on it I'd still say that Gladiator is better. Warthog certainly works better with jets though, for that I'd not switch it for Gladiator. Though Warthog can get extension which vastly changes the experience and that I havent tried. Honestly, I'm quite angry they have completely dropped extension idea for Gladiator. 300 Euro stick with no extension option is very disappointing. 

 

Better ask Matt, he had Warthog and now has Gladiator. He can give you a perfect 1:1 comparison mate. 

[Matt]

There's no real comparison between the Warthog and the Gladiator. The Warthog is made for DCS A-10 and comparble jet sims. The Gladiator Pro is made for WW2 prop sims. I wouldn't even think about using the Gladiator Pro for DCS A-10 or similar games (atleast not until i can put the Warthog grip on the Gladiators base), but for WW2 sims like BoS, the Gladiator is by far the better stick.

 

Biggest difference is the gimbal. On the Warthog, you have to overcome a strong center detent. This alone makes flying a WW2 plane and aiming in a fight a lot harder. You can compensate for that a bit by using an extension or using a weaker spring. But then you basically have only a very week spring force when you overcome the first center detent. Also when you give say 50% elevator input, there's no spring force whatsoever on the roll axis (even when you use the strong stock spring). Same thing when you give certain amount of aileron input, then it will also have zero spring force for the pitch axis. That's because there's only one spring controlling both axes.

 

The Gladiator Pro has a very loose center and progressively gets stronger. That works much better in WW2 flightsim and makes aiming much easier. Also it has springs for each axis. You also get additional spring and cams, so you can further customize the gimbal and even use different spring forces and cams for each axis seperately (for instance, if you like a center detent on one of the axes or want to have a strong spring force on the elevator and a weaker for the ailerons etc.).

 

What i think the Warthog does better are the buttons. Not just the number of them (the Gladiator stick has 2-3 buttons and 1 hat switch as opposed to 4-5 buttons and 4 hat switches on the Warthog, just talking about the buttons actually positioned on the stick itself), but they also feel higher quality. Wether or not they actually are higher quality is something i can't say, because i haven't taken them apart yet. Also i think i'll definately have to do something about the Gladiators trigger, because the trigger reset is bothering me quite a bit. Not sure why they went for that design but for me it's the worst trigger on any stick i've ever owned.

 

Both the Warthog and Gladiator have very high quality sensors. You will not notice any difference between them (even if the Gladiators might be superior on paper). Also the Gladiators throttle uses a potentiometers as opposed to a contact less sensor (doesn't get mentioned a lot).

 

Overall, if you have a Warthog and want a better gimbal, i think the Gladiator Pro is the way to go. If you're happy with the Warthog and/or don't want to spend another 300,00 EUR (or equivelant), then keep the Warthog. But if you don't own either of the sticks and are wondering which would work best for a WW2 flightsim like BoS, then i would only recommend the Gladiator.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Matt

[Warpig]

The Fat Black Mamba Mk. III. Best stick purchase I ever made! Honestly, the smoothness and accuracy is unmatched.

 

I love the mamba grip, but would very much like to find an old used Warthog grip to try out on it. That would be the best gimbal system out there, with the highest quality grip combined.

 

I will say the mamba grip fits my hand perfectly. I wonder how VKB will replace that one?

 

Mamba with Warthog grip. Can you stand the sexyness!

Edited October 13, 2016 by Warpig

[Sokol1]

 Warthog certainly works better with jets though,

 

For control their weapons, radars, yes. Their flight/fight, not so much: 

 

 

...when you give say 50% elevator input, there's no spring force whatsoever on the roll axis (even when you use the strong stock spring). Same thing when you give certain amount of aileron input, then it will also have zero spring force for the pitch axis. That's because there's only one spring controlling both axes.

 

Saitek's center system has the same inconvenient.

 

Warthog... buttons...  but they also feel higher quality. Wether or not they actually are higher quality is something i can't say, because i haven't taken them apart yet.

 

They look and fell - due the spring under the cap - good, but some then have internals cheap made, the switch is reduced to just a tactile membrane (on left) like cheap gamepads:

 

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e27/hrvhegeykc/IMG_20150109_220853_zps5dd57673.jpg~original

 

"Pinky" switch (on picture) broken is not uncommon.

 

Bottom line: Overall, in features can be considered the best joystick for domestic simulation, but is not that "tank" who some think. 

 

For dogfights: " Designed WKB products really helps even novice pilots to become aces in the sky."   

Edited October 13, 2016 by Sokol1

[Matt]

I'm sure you can find some reports of broken buttons on a product that's been around for 6 years now and it's a real mass product with well more than 50000 units produced. The Gladiator has been around for a few months and the total numbers of those is probably 1% of that. And i know at least two of those arrived broken at the customer, one of them was mine. So i think it's a bit early for a fair comparison about that.

 

I think the horrible wiring of the Warthog is more of a problem. The wires almost want to give up and break just by looking at them funny. The Gladiators wiring and soldering is solid.

[Warpig]

Since the Warthog grip is a replica of a real grip, I assume the ergonomics should be spot on. I can't imagine how much testing this grip would have went through being in a real aircraft.