Hs-129 B-2 discussion

[Dutchvdm]

Is there some schematic for Hs 129's armor around, something like this for example?

 

 

A good quality of IL-2's design is that the engine, both radiators and fuel tanks are all inside the armored shell, how's the 129 in that regard? Another plus of the IL-2 is that it could carry a bit more bombload and rockets of different types.

 

I would conclude that the Hs 129 was more a dedicated anti tank plane (center mounted very good 30mm), with the IL-2 being a bit more flexible with it's bigger loadout for doing general strike missions or soft target attack. With the IL-2 you can combine loadouts for different jobs, like taking general purpose bombs with the AT cannons, or AT rockets and HE cannon ammo, or AT bomblets with fragmentation rockets and standard cannon loadout, etc. With the Henschel the best loadout options are in the center pylon so you would have to choose to take the general purpose bomb, the AT 30mm cannon, or the cluster bomb (would be nice to have those in the sim). The 129's nose mounted cannons make convoy strafing easier as horizontal convergence affects very little.

 

But overall they are pretty similar.

 

No picture, but.

 

"Truncated triangle cross section structure with the wing root and centre sections built into the broad base. Nose section made of spot welded 6 to 12 mm thick armour plate, the remainder of light metal stressed skin construction. Total weigh of armoured forward fuselage section, including cockpit ‘bathtub’ 469 kg (1034 lb). The fuselage centre section of riveted light alloy structure was attached to forward fuselage section by bolts. Weight of fuselage centre section with wing inner sections and nacelles was 1063 kg (2344 lb). Rear fuselage section with the tail unit was a light metal alloy structure."

 

"Weight of complete engine nacelle 589 kg (1299 lb). Bottom of cowling protected by 5mm armour plate"

 

Grt M

Edited May 15, 2017 by Martijnvdm

[9./JG27MAD-MM]

The Production Numbers of the HS-129 was never high enough to get a versatile Ground Attack Aircraft, was more and more only in the Anti Tank Role in extra Squadrons with the massive increase of T-34 rolling up the Front.

But it use also Wing Mounted Bomb Racks For multipurpose Bombs (SD,SC Bombs)  and cluster anti  (AB-Abwurfbehälter with Bomblets) Armor Bombs with 30 mm center Mounted MK-101 or Mk-103.

@SuperEtendard was long ago i test the Stuka Pak 18, but dont get any Pen on the Side Armor after 3 or 4 Attacks, and PAK 18 Wolfram Carbide Ammunition with 130 mm should devestating against 45mm Side Armor with the first hit of the T34 or I am wrong? 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Is there some schematic for Hs 129's armor around, something like this for example?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

[Finkeren]

WTactualF?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Well, I am absolutely disheartened by the Lack of Bombs for the Schpittfeier so I bumped this. Any Attraction the Mk.V had is lost by it's reduction to the Fighter Role.

[Hoots]

I do like "le quack" though.

[Finkeren]

Well Klaus, the Hs 129 should have you covered. In fact, just about every BoK plane apart from the Spit, He 111H16 and (arguably) the Bf 109G4 can fit the ground attack role very nicely.

 

The Yak-7b will probably (I think likely) have the option of a NS37 cannon in the nose, the P-39 has a 37mm cannon in the nose (albeit probably without AP ammunition) and can carry a very nice payload, The Fw 190A5 comes with a special ground attack modification and can carry a ****ton of bombs, The Bf 110G2, IL-2-1943 and Hs 129 are pure-bred ground pounders and the A-20B will have a heavy bomb load spread over a large number of smaller bombs, meaning it will have to be used as a low level/ground attack aircraft to really be effective.

 

BoK has us covered when it comes to ground attack methinks.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Well Klaus, the Hs 129 should have you covered. In fact, just about every BoK plane apart from the Spit, He 111H16 and (arguably) the Bf 109G4 can fit the ground attack role very nicely.

 

The Yak-7b will probably (I think likely) have the option of a NS37 cannon in the nose, the P-39 has a 37mm cannon in the nose (albeit probably without AP ammunition) and can carry a very nice payload, The Fw 190A5 comes with a special ground attack modification and can carry a ****ton of bombs, The Bf 110G2, IL-2-1943 and Hs 129 are pure-bred ground pounders and the A-20B will have a heavy bomb load spread over a large number of smaller bombs, meaning it will have to be used as a low level/ground attack aircraft to really be effective.

 

BoK has us covered when it comes to ground attack methinks.

 

The Yak-7B, if it has the 37mm cannon, would also need a revised 3D model moving the cockpit backwards. I'm not sure if they will do that or not.

[Finkeren]

The Yak-7B, if it has the 37mm cannon, would also need a revised 3D model moving the cockpit backwards. I'm not sure if they will do that or not.

Hmmmm yeah. Didn't think of that. That might be the thing that keeps them from modeling it. It's not so much the issue of the 3D model itself, but it has the potential to create issues with skins and then there is the whole moving the internal cockpit model relative to the external model, when the 37mm is equipped.

[Danziger]

Could it not use two separate 3d models?

[Finkeren]

Could it not use two separate 3d models?

Would require two separate version of every skin to be made.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Hmmmm yeah. Didn't think of that. That might be the thing that keeps them from modeling it. It's not so much the issue of the 3D model itself, but it has the potential to create issues with skins and then there is the whole moving the internal cockpit model relative to the external model, when the 37mm is equipped.

 

I hadn't considered it either until a discussion a few months ago when I realized that what they did on the Yak-9T was also done on the small numbers of 37mm armed Yak-7Bs.

 

I am very curious what unlocks we do get. It may be fairly small. I think this late series Yak-7B probably won't have rockets either.

 

Anyways, I realized this is the Hs129 discussion. So... back to the ugly duckling. I keep saying I'm looking forward to this one but I am really really pleased that it made the aircraft list. It was neglected for so long in the original series.

Edited July 5, 2017 by ShamrockOneFive

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Currently we see a lot of VVS victories on the online servers, using their IL-2s to destroy the ground targets. I wonder if the Hs-129 will help the LW to regain some ground attack power with the Hs-129

For the record, the Luftwaffe has plenty of ground attack power.

 

The problem is that their most potent ground attack ordinance isn't selectable on some of those servers.

 

Then you have the disparity in how many buildings need to be destroyed to clear a target on one server; but that's a different story.

 

Then the "Club Hartmann" problem doesn't help either.

 

In either case, very happy to get a new aircraft to fly; but I highly doubt it will be helping the LW win more maps.

Edited July 6, 2017 by hrafnkolbrandr

[RainMan]

Cannot wait for the Hs-129.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Finkeren, I believe the idea that the M4 was not supplied AP rounds is wrong. Most English Airacobra sources pull from the same material which lists that, but in pilot memoirs you can find mentions of loading all AP for a tank-busting sortie (called off before it happened as Il-2s were made available) and friendly fire by P-39s where an AP round cross the fuselage of another Airacobra. In Russia you can also buy expended M4 AP rounds which were found in the wild after the war, so there's that.

[Praetorious]

I cannot wait for this plane either,when it comes to WW2 German planes the weirder they are the more they appeal to me,i can honestly say i bought BOK just for this plane,now if i could have a FW189 and a Blohm & Voss 141 my life would be complete,lol

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Anyone know how much the MK101 and MK103 will differ from each other since we will get both? 

[Asgar]

Anyone know how much the MK101 and MK103 will differ from each other since we will get both? 

i think the main difference is the higher fire rate on the 103 and maybe the ammo capacity. not 100% sure about the capacity though

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

In the devblog 155 in which they talk about Hs 129 loadouts the MK 101 will have a 30 round drum, while the MK 103 will have an 80 round belt.

Edited August 5, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I wonder how will it handle. Historical accounts and its depiction in 1946 indicate the Hs-129 is a pig with wings and underpowered. A good Il-2 or Ju-87 pilot can sneak and weave their way out of danger with some luck, the He-111 has enough gunners to try and fend for itself, while the Ju-88 and Pe-2 can make a run for it in case of danger. Without the ability to pull most defensive manoeuvres, and lacking a rear gunner, does our Armoured Donald Duck stand any chance against fighter opposition if engaged? In 1946 I used to attack tanks in the Il-2 then fly around taking out Hs-129s for fun. All you had to do was sit behind it and shoot up either engine.

[707shap_Srbin]

Difference between 101 and 103 is rate of fire and ammo capacity.

But main difference - year of enter the service.

 

MK101 will be aviable for Stalingrad, MK103 will be aviable for Kuban.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

I wonder how will it handle. Historical accounts and its depiction in 1946 indicate the Hs-129 is a pig with wings and underpowered. A good Il-2 or Ju-87 pilot can sneak and weave their way out of danger with some luck, the He-111 has enough gunners to try and fend for itself, while the Ju-88 and Pe-2 can make a run for it in case of danger. Without the ability to pull most defensive manoeuvres, and lacking a rear gunner, does our Armoured Donald Duck stand any chance against fighter opposition if engaged? In 1946 I used to attack tanks in the Il-2 then fly around taking out Hs-129s for fun. All you had to do was sit behind it and shoot up either engine.

 

 

I wonder this too.  Everything I've heard makes it sound like an cool and interesting aircraft, unique for the Luftwaffe, but operationally crappy.  I can't imagine it'll compete with the Il-2, especially the 1943.  In the space of two days I got 2.5 air kills in my Il-2 1941 dogfighting and 1 in my Il-2 1943 with the rear gunner.

[Irgendjemand]

I hope its not another "target" plane like the Tante JU. We alsready have one of those.   Time the red side gets seomthign we Lufties can do target practice on.

[707shap_Srbin]

I hope its not another "target" plane like the Tante JU. We alsready have one of those.   Time the red side gets seomthign we Lufties can do target practice on.

 

Well, hope we will be able to score some...

 

 

 

 

 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Interesting photo, Panzerbar. Any idea on the nature of the targets?

[707shap_Srbin]

Two fighters shot down in the air, and 3 bombers bued on the ground. Also, tanks - usual targets for Hs129

[Lusekofte]

I hope its not another "target" plane like the Tante JU. We alsready have one of those.   Time the red side gets seomthign we Lufties can do target practice on.

 

Have you ever flown a IL 2, this will be even slower and heavier. It will be meat for accurate flak and lonewolfers all day long. I will love every minute I fly it, but my guess is there will be very few minutes at the time. No view backwards and slow & heavy

[LLv24_Zami]

Well, the engines are what they are. Compared to that I think it did fine. Of course Il-2 was in it`s own league in ground attacking business on eastern front. Simply the best. Finnish veterans called it a farming machine

 

Edit: And very much looking forward for Henschel, it will be fun! 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Zami

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Two fighters shot down in the air, and 3 bombers bued on the ground. Also, tanks - usual targets for Hs129

Overshooting it on a straight line as a fighter is an easy way to die, for sure.

 

Just the thought of the 129's rear visibility makes me nervous. You can barely check your wingman's six, let alone your own!

[LLv24_Zami]

Just the thought of the 129's rear visibility makes me nervous. You can barely check your wingman's six, let alone your own!

Not exactly great rear view from Il-2 either so ground bounders are used to it  But well see

[Nightrise]

Overshooting it on a straight line as a fighter is an easy way to die, for sure.

 

Just the thought of the 129's rear visibility makes me nervous. You can barely check your wingman's six, let alone your own!

That's what escort is for i suppose. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Without escort it will be nothing but meat on the table for any Allied fighter.

Edited August 6, 2017 by BlitzPig_EL

[LLv24_Zami]

Without escort it will be nothing but meat on the table for any Allied fighter.

Any attack aircraft is nothing but meat on the table without escort

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Any attack aircraft is nothing but meat on the table without escort

 

 

With Il-2 '43s I don't feel much pressure for an escort if attacked by fighters because the dangerous rear gunners make up for the heavier nature of the aircraft in air combat and make ignoring the fighters and continuing the mission possible.  With the '41 model, the increased agility means that with good flying and a little luck you can win without the help of a gunner, and make running possible if you can't fight.  With the '42 model you are likely doomed(the terrible pretend gunner only makes things worse) .

 

I imagine the Hs-129s will be in a similar position to the Il-2 42, but a bit worse because the engines are vulnerable from the rear.  So that leaves very careful intelligent flying and/or escort.  The good news is I imagine the Axis pilots shouldn't have too much trouble putting together a strong escort.

Edited August 6, 2017 by 7-GvShAP/Silas

[LLv24_Zami]

With Il-2 '43s I don't feel much pressure for an escort if attacked by fighters because the dangerous rear gunners make up for the heavier nature of the aircraft in air combat and make ignoring the fighters and continuing the mission possible.  With the '41 model, the increased agility means that with good flying and a little luck you can win without the help of a gunner, and make running possible if you can't fight.  With the '42 model you are likely doomed(the terrible pretend gunner only makes things worse) .

 

I imagine the Hs-129s will be in a similar position to the Il-2 42, but a bit worse because the engines are vulnerable from the rear.  So that leaves very careful intelligent flying and/or escort.  The good news is I imagine the Axis pilots shouldn't have too much trouble putting together a strong escort.

Current gunners might be a bit too effective imo. You play MP I assume, maybe the solution would be to level down the gunners. They should provide a basic protection at short range but nothing more. It shouldn`t be very hard to shoot down even the Il-2 43, if the historical evidence is viewed. They had good guns but gunners were not that good in general.

 

Edit: I mean overall gunners, I play so rarely MP so I shouldn`t really comment on that... 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Zami

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Current gunners might be a bit too effective imo. You play MP I assume, maybe the solution would be to level down the gunners. They should provide a basic protection at short range but nothing more. It shouldn`t be very hard to shoot down even the Il-2 43, if the historical evidence is viewed. They had good guns but gunners were not that good in general.

 

Edit: I mean overall gunners, I play so rarely MP so I shouldn`t really comment on that... 

 

 

Don't worry, they aren't that good and miss about as much as you would hope unless the enemy is very close to you.  But having a proper gunner with a decent weapon is very refreshing and liberating.  Nothing is more infuriating than having someone park on your 6 and feel comfortable staying there.

 

P.S.  I like to think I make myself very difficult to shoot down!

Edited August 6, 2017 by 7-GvShAP/Silas

[LukeFF]

Difference between 101 and 103 is rate of fire and ammo capacity.

But main difference - year of enter the service.

 

MK101 will be aviable for Stalingrad, MK103 will be aviable for Kuban.

 

The MK 103 first entered service in July of 1943 at Kursk, right?

[wtfnub]

Hi, I have just purchased all 3 games, premium edition versions and I have noticed that I do not have this aircraft.

 

is the aircraft out or is it just missing for me ?

 

I am a total newb to this version of il2 and would be thankful if someone could let me know if the aircraft is available for everyone else.

 

thanks

[AndyJWest]

Hi, I have just purchased all 3 games, premium edition versions and I have noticed that I do not have this aircraft.

 

is the aircraft out or is it just missing for me ?

 

I am a total newb to this version of il2 and would be thankful if someone could let me know if the aircraft is available for everyone else.

 

thanks

 

The Battle of Kuban is still in early access: the HS-129 hasn't been released yet, and isn't due until November or thereabouts.