Flying the Fw 190 A-3 is challenging

[Aap]

When you look at the battle description, we don't really know what happened there exactly. At first they were turning left - then he talks about VERTICAL turn (loop?), while apparently having lost sight of the enemy. Don't know what kind of maneuvers the Fw190 was really doing there.

 

And another thing, we don't know the planes initial speeds, amounts of fuel, general conditions, pilot skill differences. Even if we know that in equal conditions Spitfire turns better than Fw190, it does not mean that in different conditions it could not be out-turned.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

The "anecdotal evidence" is not just made up stories. It is how the pilots really saw and experienced these things

 

I agree with you but when presented with test data regarding the sudden unexpected stall and less that fantastic turning circle of the 190 some folks just dismiss this information as meaningless because the RAF got pwned by the 190 until the MkIX appeared. It was faster and had better firepower than the Spit MkV and that's why it dominated.  Speed is life and all that.

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Plus the typical "outmaneuvered" vs "out-turned" co mingling which may be at work in Johnson's account. They didn't really care much about keeping those things straight back then. Suffice it to say the 190A3 was superior to the Spit V. 

[Aap]

Yes, I guess there are always people that prefer to see only these facts and anecdotes that support their own illusion, while skipping the rest. I hope that majority wants as objective and "true" sim as possible, though, instead of promoting his own favorite plane and trying to downgrade it's enemy.

[SKG51_robtek]

aren't there any 'anecdotes' from the Spitfires flying in the east how they compared to yaks and la's there?

where the Spitfires really so much worse then their red counterparts?

'anecdotical' evidence from the west comparing to what is happening in this game seems to indicate just that.

[LLv34_Taku]

The adjustment curve for each axis has a slider for dead zones at the ends in the game. Use that to get the 75 %.

 

Yeah just checked it. That deadzone for Edges simply mean that you get to full elevator more quickly making the joystick even more sensitive. What I'm looking for would be the opposite.

[Wulf]

I agree with you but when presented with test data regarding the sudden unexpected stall and less that fantastic turning circle of the 190 some folks just dismiss this information as meaningless because the RAF got pwned by the 190 until the MkIX appeared. It was faster and had better firepower than the Spit MkV and that's why it dominated.  Speed is life and all that.

 

 

LOL ... I love the way you casually fail to mention that the RAF readily conceded that the 190 was by far the more maneuverable of the two aircraft (Spit v 190).

 

[Edited]

Edited October 28, 2016 by Bearcat
Unless you passed Mindreading 101..

[6./ZG26_Custard]

LOL ... I love the way you casually fail to mention that the RAF readily conceded that the 190 was by far the more maneuverable of the two aircraft (Spit v 190). If the facts don't fit your preconceived VVS bias you just sweep the offending truths under the rug and carry on with your usual revisionist BS.

Dear old Wulf your "bias" has been clear and defined on these forums for months......and months and....did I mention months.

 

 

 

 

If an aircraft is more heavily armed and 40kph faster then it already has a massive advantage over its rival and anyone who denies that is a fool.

 

I suppose this is revisionist BS too eh?

 

"the Fw 190 pilot trying to “mix it” with a Spitfire in the classic fashion of steep turning was doomed, for at any speed -even below the German fighter's stalling speed- it would be out-turned by its British opponent . Of course the Luftwaffe was aware of this fact and a somewhat odd style of dogfighting evolved in which the Fw 190 pilots endeavoured to keep on the vertical plane by zooms and dives, while their Spitfire-mounted antagonists tried everything in the book to draw them on to the horizontal. If the German pilot lost his head and failed to resist the temptation to try a horizontal pursuit curve on a Spitfire, as likely as not, before he could recover the speed lost in a steep turn he would find another Spitfire turning inside him! On the other hand, the German pilot who kept zooming up and down was usually the recipient of only difficult deflection shots of more than 30 deg. The Fw 190 had tremendous initial acceleration in a dive but it was extremely vulnerable during a pull-out, recovery having to be quite progressive with care not to kill the speed by 'sinking' ”

 

Captain Eric Melrose "Winkle" Brown, CBE, DSC, AFC, Hon FRAeS, RN[

 

 

 

 

maneuverable

 

It depends in what regard

 

 

"outmaneuvered" vs "out-turned"

Edited October 25, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Custard

[Wulf]

Dear old Wulf your "bias" has been clear and defined on these forums for months......and months and....did I mention months.

 

 

 

 

If an aircraft is more heavily armed and 40kph faster then it already has a massive advantage over its rival and anyone who denies that is a fool.

 

I suppose this is revisionist BS too eh?

 

"the Fw 190 pilot trying to “mix it” with a Spitfire in the classic fashion of steep turning was doomed, for at any speed -even below the German fighter's stalling speed- it would be out-turned by its British opponent . Of course the Luftwaffe was aware of this fact and a somewhat odd style of dogfighting evolved in which the Fw 190 pilots endeavoured to keep on the vertical plane by zooms and dives, while their Spitfire-mounted antagonists tried everything in the book to draw them on to the horizontal. If the German pilot lost his head and failed to resist the temptation to try a horizontal pursuit curve on a Spitfire, as likely as not, before he could recover the speed lost in a steep turn he would find another Spitfire turning inside him! On the other hand, the German pilot who kept zooming up and down was usually the recipient of only difficult deflection shots of more than 30 deg. The Fw 190 had tremendous initial acceleration in a dive but it was extremely vulnerable during a pull-out, recovery having to be quite progressive with care not to kill the speed by 'sinking' ”

 

Captain Eric Melrose "Winkle" Brown, CBE, DSC, AFC, Hon FRAeS, RN[

 

 

 

 

 

It depends in what regard

 

 

Let me remind you once again what you said.  You said,  

 

It was faster and had better firepower than the Spit MkV and that's why it dominated.  Speed is life and all that.

 

 

Yes, it was faster and the weapons obviously helped to some extent but that's not the full story, as you well know.  The RAE evaluated the 190 and in the opinion of that august institution concluded that the 190 was without doubt, the more maneuverable of the two fighters in everything but sustained turn.  That, me old Custard, is the reality.

 

The Mk IX Spitfire was as fast as a 190 and would certainly out-turn it in most scenarios BUT, the 190 remained the more agile of the two fighters.

 

Unfortunately, there is nothing at all 'agile' about the BoS 190.  Try to exercise a bit of agility in a BoS 190 and you'll find yourself good and dead in very short order.  Alternatively of course, we might find out that the 190 has in fact been modeled correctly, in which case the new Spit V is going to make a LaGG 3 look like a Harrier jump jet.

[Turban]

Only real advantage of the FW 190 over the Spit MkIX was the roll rate. 

 

And I completely disagree, the FW is agile. That's part of why it's very enjoyable to fly.

 

If you expect it to fly like an Extra 300, of course it's not gonna meet your expectations.

 

The sim is not perfect, but it's not as bad as some people claim. And people can't get pass their own failure which really makes the process of  working out actual possible problems a pain.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Turban

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

 

 

I'm not asking these questions to be a douche...just trying to figure out what the BOS 190 is missing in terms of agility that people think it should have based on data or historical accounts. From Eric Brown's report, it seems clear that being fast all the time in combat is key. And the BOS 190 is better than any of the game's other fighters when fast IMO.

 

Obviously it should be the best turning, best rolling, best climbing, best armed, best armored, fastest and EASIEST plane to fly. It was built from pure Stardust and Magic and if you don't take all of the above back, all the 190 Fanboys will start hurting themselves and lock themselves in their rooms. 

A bunch of people said it was really good, so obviously it was the best thing in the history of anything evar. 

If you want these people to harm themselves, that would make you the act of personal hygiene you mentioned. 

 

In my honest opinion the 190 Fanbois are the incarnation of the Tragic Hero in Sophocles best known work. 

 

I don't really understand where the idea comes from that the 190 should be a low level Dogfighting Wonderweapon. It is amazing because it can dictate the terms of engagement, because it has an amazing bombload (almost an Il-2's worth), amazing Firepower and Survivability. 

Those are the terms it is strong on, they are the ones I embrace. And that way it works. 

If people want to go into Rise of Flight (WWI) Style Dogfights at Low Level with an Aircraft that was never intended to be used that way, well I don't mourn their losses. They shall be forgotten. They were never of any use to begin with. 

[=CFC=Conky]

I guess it depends on what people mean by 'agile'.

 

From my own practice and from watching videos by good players I will say that the BOS 190 changes flight path instantly and precisely at high speeds...which make it tougher to avoid when it is attacking someone in a dive. Is that 'agility'?

 

The BOS 190 has a good turn RATE when really fast (large radius though). Is that 'agility'?

 

The BOS 190 bobs and weaves tightly when putting on a guns defense at speed. Is that 'agility'?

 

At reasonably high speed the BOS 190 can be pulled up into the vertical abruptly and then rolled on its back and pulled back down in a high-G roll. Is that 'agility'?

 

Really the only thing that the BOS 190 doesn't seem to like are spiral climbs and hard pulls on the stick when slow, the way that you can with a 109 or Yak. Is that a 'lack of agility'?

 

Could it be that the MKV Spitfires found themselves being attacked at high speed by 190s that they couldn't roll and turn to avoid quickly enough? Who only needed a split-second firing window? And that the Spitfires weren't fast enough to catch? I would think that to be pretty discouraging for them.

 

I'm not asking these questions to be a douche...just trying to figure out what the BOS 190 is missing in terms of agility that people think it should have based on data or historical accounts. From Eric Brown's report, it seems clear that being fast all the time in combat is key. And the BOS 190 is better than any of the game's other fighters when fast IMO.

 

 

In the old IL2, the 190 was not a great 'turn' fighter either but could get around a circle quickly if you kept the speed in the 400km/h range and the armament rewarded good deflection shooters. 

 

It's not easy to get a tracking gun solution in the 190 against a tighter turning opponent but if you are good at applying 'Kentucky windage' you can be very dangerous.

 

As for the stall behaviour, well I don't know either way. 

 

I've found that if you are 1V1 and your opponent knows you're there you have your work cut out for you if you are not a good shot, and it gets riskier if you are co-alt or lower unless you have a big energy advantage. 

 

What I'd like to see added to the 190 is the ability to set a different convergence distance for the outer cannon, and/or the gun pods on the 109 and Mc.202.

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

In answer to the original purpose of the thread, this video from Feraphic looks like a good way to use the 190:

 

[Edited]

Edited October 27, 2016 by Bearcat

[3./JG15_Kampf]

Maximum amount of elevator control is not needed, an option where full deflection of joystick would only give like 75%(or whatever it's adjusted to) of elevator control could be useful...

I use a program called----- joy curves, 69% elevator. Much easier to fly, but at high speed you will need much more altitude to make a split S

Edited October 26, 2016 by JAGER_Kampf

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

In answer to the original purpose of the thread, this video from Feraphic looks like a good way to use the 190:

 

Pretty much how I use her.

 

Going into the vertical doesn't mean straight up. 30-40 degrees above the horizon will give you separation and maintain much of your speed.

 

Roll, rinse, repeat............extend, gentle parabola, repeat. Blow through the merge in most cases. Let them burn their energy trying to turn and come back to them at your convenience. 

 

Fly with all four guns, pitch for 300, if you can get the piper on them they are done. If you can't, extend, and don't get sucked into turn fights.

 

Know your altitudes and where you are faster. The Russian crates are only faster in a few very narrow bands. Know which to dive, which to climb and which to run flat. The 190 is the fastest thing in the game other than the F4 if you know your and your enemies flight envelopes.

 

The 190 pilot who tries to out (sustained) turn-fight a lightweight flap-hanger is a dead man.

 

You must be well versed. You must be SMART about her. You must be VERY patient with this bird. All else is folly.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I guess it depends on what people mean by 'agile'.

Agility describes the ability to change flight direction quickly. The light aileroun controlls with rapid response as well as a very pleasant elevator controll up to high speeds certainly favoured the 190 over some other designs of that time.

 

For example I've heared an effective escape manouvre against Spitfires was to put it in a dive, than roll 180° and pull out in a semi-split S. In this situation the 190 despite high airspeeds could roll quicker than the Spitfire which was forced to abort the chase.

 

There's only 2 things on the ingame Fw-190 I'd have complaints about and that is for one the relative roll performence (compared to Lagg-3 and La-5 it's advantage is insufficient due to slow roll acceleration) and the imminent stall at too low crit alpha (long thread in FM section, no need to further explain on that). That's only helping to make it more agile though, not a better turner.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

To be fair, Custard - I think that video is from when the 190s were driven by kids flying in a straight line and getting rekt by the well-trained Allied pilots.

 

You may well be right but it could also be pilots who were unaware and taken by surprise. An awful lot of pilots (on all sides) were shot down before they even knew what was happening.

 

 

Let me remind you once again what you said. You said,

I know what I said and I stand by it. The speed and firepower advantaged was a game changer. Was it the only factor? No, it wasn't but it gave the RAF a massive wake up call.

 

in everything but sustained turn

 

The problem is some folks online do just that and engage in sustained turn fights and then wonder why they get shot down. 

 

 

 

 

Could it be that the MKV Spitfires found themselves being attacked at high speed by 190s that they couldn't roll and turn to avoid quickly enough? Who only needed a split-second firing window? And that the Spitfires weren't fast enough to catch? I would think that to be pretty discouraging for them. I'm not asking these questions to be a douche...just trying to figure out what the BOS 190 is missing in terms of agility that people think it should have based on data or historical accounts. From Eric Brown's report, it seems clear that being fast all the time in combat is key. And the BOS 190 is better than any of the game's other fighters when fast IMO.

 

I think there is a misconception by some regarding air combat it WWII, that being the "Hollywood" style of dogfighting. Long, sustained, twisting, turning fights that lasted what seemed like for ever. In reality the majority were over in seconds, with fast in and out attacks. Most aircraft had around only 14-20 or so seconds worth of ammunition a few bursts you were looking to RTB.

 

 

 

If people want to go into Rise of Flight (WWI) Style Dogfights at Low Level with an Aircraft that was never intended to be used that way well I don't mourn their losses. 

     

 

Pretty much.

 

 

 

The sim is not perfect, but it's not as bad as some people claim.

 

Pretty much again  

 

 

 

There's only 2 things on the ingame Fw-190 I'd have complaints about and that is for one the relative roll performence (compared to Lagg-3 and La-5 it's advantage is insufficient due to slow roll acceleration) and the imminent stall at too low crit alpha

 

This.

[Lusekofte]

 

 

There are a whole host of subjective reports regarding the 190 but in the main and particularly from the western allied and soviet test reports it does mention time and again the stall characterises of this aircraft. How do we put a finger on who has the right source or who is was right based on an individual’s feelings? 

 

 

Why not do as we always do, if we cannot shoot a Russian plane down from a disfavourable position  with no strategy in mind, there must be a problem with the FM and we make a 127 page topic about it, witch lead to nothing?

 

In the meantime, until the developers recognise they should not go out and search for sources, just ask the axis pilots on how a German plane should work, and in special how a Russian plane they never flown  should perform. 

as I said in the meantime, why not use this fantastic fighter bomber as a fighter bomber 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Agility describes the ability to change flight direction quickly. The light aileroun controlls with rapid response as well as a very pleasant elevator controll up to high speeds certainly favoured the 190 over some other designs of that time.

 

For example I've heared an effective escape manouvre against Spitfires was to put it in a dive, than roll 180° and pull out in a semi-split S. In this situation the 190 despite high airspeeds could roll quicker than the Spitfire which was forced to abort the chase.

 

There's only 2 things on the ingame Fw-190 I'd have complaints about and that is for one the relative roll performence (compared to Lagg-3 and La-5 it's advantage is insufficient due to slow roll acceleration) and the imminent stall at too low crit alpha (long thread in FM section, no need to further explain on that). That's only helping to make it more agile though, not a better turner.

 

This 

[Turban]

I'm not asking these questions to be a douche...just trying to figure out what the BOS 190 is missing in terms of agility that people think it should have based on data or historical accounts. From Eric Brown's report, it seems clear that being fast all the time in combat is key. And the BOS 190 is better than any of the game's other fighters when fast IMO.

 

Yes, speed is key. It's often mentioned that Spit pilots should always fly at high speed so they have a chance if a FW shows up. And that encounters happened at high speed.

 

My guess is, people fly the plane between 350/450 when they should be flying it between 450/550+ (rule of thumb here, no absolute).

 

Many ways to dogfight without killing your speed. And if you don't kill your speed, russians can't do much. 

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

The biggest misconceived idea here is the solo dogfights people get involved in servers.

 

Can you imagine a group of 190s using superior speed and firepower, slashing from all directions??

 

A plane like this used in groups does not need to turn .

 

But if you are a lone wolf in the server... You can imagine how it gonna end. With tears on this very forum.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

But if you are a lone wolf in the server... You can imagine how it gonna end. With tears on this very forum.

 

It won't just be tears on the forum, it will be tears before bedtime too!

[Lusekofte]

 

 

espite high airspeeds could roll quicker than the Spitfire which was forced to abort the chase.

 

Well I agree on what you say, but did not the Spitfire roll rate suck big time, and the encounter of FW 190 was the reason for clipped wings for better roll rate ? 

[Avatar13]

Well I agree on what you say, but did not the Spitfire roll rate suck big time, and the encounter of FW 190 was the reason for clipped wings for better roll rate ? 

 

That's what I've always heard but have no idea of the accuracy of the statement...

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Well I agree on what you say, but did not the Spitfire roll rate suck big time, and the encounter of FW 190 was the reason for clipped wings for better roll rate ? 

It did roll better than the 190 in the lower speed region while the 190 was superiour in the upper one. Furthermore not all Spitfire pilots like the clipped wings since they gave the aircraft worse flight characteristics (among them worse rate of climb).

 

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 So there is basically the biggest gripe noted in that rate of roll table posted. Fw190 had superior rate of roll over ALL planes except Mustang at very high speeds. So let's compare this what we have in game. Many sources and also pilot writings tell that Bf109 rolled better than LagG-3 and La-5 from early series being equal to F and FN more or less. Bf109 rolled 360deg in about 4-5 seconds putting it in range of 90deg/s. Now look at the Fw190 on that chart. It starts from 110deg/sec and peaks at 165deg/sec. So where from did devs get the idea that LagG-3 and the early mark La-5 rolled in regime of over 110deg/sec with the Fw190 when they were barely rolling about the same rate as Bf109? To add more insult the reported heavy control forces in roll axis for LagG-3 and La-5 early series seem to play no role at all either. They enter the roll as easily as the Fw190 which was know for it's light and well balanced controls. Go figure. This basically renders, combined with the flip flop stall, the tactic of changing direction in fast pace useless for the Fw190 against any VVS plane in the game. Battle of Kuban will be interesting

 

EDIT: Spitfire Mk.V with normal wings is in the same ballpark as Bf109F/G regarding roll. So there is your roll for the VVS planes too except Yak which had slightly higher rate of roll. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by LLv34_Flanker

[ShamrockOneFive]

Has anyone tested the A-3s roll rate in-game vs real life? How big are the discrepancies at different speeds?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Has anyone tested the A-3s roll rate in-game vs real life? How big are the discrepancies at different speeds?

It heavily  depends on your Elevator Position and Clean Rudder Coordination. It rolls rather sluggishly at neutral or slightly rear-heavy, however when pushing only very slightly it goes incredibly fast. 

 

Also, these Tests are for 50lbs of Stick Pressure. That is impossible unless using both hands and I don't know about the real world implications of that test. We would have to know which  Stick Pressure the Pilots in this Sim can exert. The 109s at that point using half the force got the same at low speed, and still waaaay more at higher speeds as F. Mk.V Spit with Metal Ailerons. I would be highly critical of these numbers. 

I can see the russians rolling very well at low and medium speeds, just given their light weight, large surfaces and comparatively small wings. I can definetly see them outroll the Spits anywhere. 

I am somewhat skeptical of their high speed performance, but that may change in the future. 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Report says 50lbs force or if aileron fully deflected requiring less than 50lbs. Clipped wing Spitfire rolled well at low altitude but it's engine lost power really quickly with altitude thus "chopped and cropped". The German test of captured La-5FN says it rolls about the same as Bf109G. LagG-3 was worse in this department and it had along with early La-5 heavy control forces. Russian docs say it and pilot memoirs support it. Only Yak is mentioned being a quicker in roll than LagG /La.

[Aap]

What is impossible about 50 lbs (222 N or 23 kg) stick pressure?

Looking at the graph, I guess the 50 lbs criteria was met at the peak points, 250 mph for Fw190 and Typhoon and 200 mph for Spitfire, while with Mustang you could still get full aileron at 400 mph with less than 50 lbs stick pressure. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by II./JG77_Kemp

[Stig]

The "anecdotal evidence" is not just made up stories. It is how the pilots really saw and experienced these things. If both RAF and Luftwaffe pilots tell matching "anecdotes" about these encounters, it is kind of silly to say that in reality it happened the other way around.

 

What comes to over-claiming, historians have been able to check the records from both sides after the war ended. In the books they usually bring up both numbers. For example about the mentioned circus flights, actual records show that RAF losses were higher than Luftwaffe's already before Fw190 appeared. But due to over-claiming, RAF command believed that they are "winning" these fights. The British claims were actually done in good faith - when Bf109's used the tactics of one pass and dive away, their engines were emitting smoke during steep dives and made RAF pilots believe they were going down. Once the Fw190's appeared and actually started to accept the dogfights and stay engaged despite being outnumbered, it became obvious for RAF commanders also that they are being badly outscored in these fights, so they stopped the circus flights.

 

 According to Donald Caldwell, Topguns of the Luftwaffe, Fighter Command lost 411 planes from June 14 to December 31 1941. II/JG26 was the only gruppe equipped with Fw 190's during this period. I'm not sure when exactly they became operational, but it seems to be mid- to late August.

 

I did a rough count earlier today (at work   ), and by the end of August Fighter Command had lost 290 aicraft since June 14. I can't say for sure, but the Fw 190 may not have scored it's first kill yet at this time. 

 

Fighter Command was being spanked on the Channel Front long before the Fw 190 was the most numerical fighter there.  

[II./JG77_Manu*]

How dare you actually link to helpful ADVICE

 

Quite ironic, such a statement by yourself. Since your posts are the ones, who hurt the initial sense of this topic far more, then some people "whining" about the FM. With nonsense like this:

 

 

Obviously it should be the best turning, best rolling, best climbing, best armed, best armored, fastest and EASIEST plane to fly. It was built from pure Stardust and Magic and if you don't take all of the above back, all the 190 Fanboys will start hurting themselves and lock themselves in their rooms. 

 

 

Pure blatant lie, that's only intended to annoy people. Since you are around enough in this Forum, you lied deliberately to get some "effect" out of it. Very mature

Edited October 26, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[JtD]

Russian docs show that La-5FN had better roll than BF109 and slightly inferior roll to Fw 190.

Can you please point me to these docs?

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Can you please point me to these docs?

It's wrong. Roll was clearly inferior to the 190, so 190 could use it to it's advantage. There are some "anecdotal" lines, that the two main things the late 190s (A8) used against the La5FN were the superior roll rate, and the superior dive capabilitiy and superior energy retention, which lead to the "Sinus-manouver", in which the A8 could outclimb the La5FN, and get to a superior energy position after starting at co-energy (which of course only works, when the La5 follows into the dive)

Edited October 26, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[GridiroN]

It's amazing how quick a conversation turns hostile when people's preconcieved notions are challenged, and people are accused of doing exactly what they're currently doing themselves. 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

22 Pages guys, and about 21 Productive Posts. 

[Max_Damage]

After 22 pages they didnt buff your focke wulf. Why do you keep hoping for it :D

[JG13_opcode]

Also, these Tests are for 50lbs of Stick Pressure. That is impossible unless using both hands

You heard it here first, folks. Lifting 50 lbs is impossible with one arm.

 

Guess the weights at my gym are labelled incorrectly.

[PatrickAWlson]

I guess it depends on what people mean by 'agile'.

 

From my own practice and from watching videos by good players I will say that the BOS 190 changes flight path instantly and precisely at high speeds...which make it tougher to avoid when it is attacking someone in a dive. Is that 'agility'?

 

The BOS 190 has a good turn RATE when really fast (large radius though). Is that 'agility'?

 

The BOS 190 bobs and weaves tightly when putting on a guns defense at speed. Is that 'agility'?

 

At reasonably high speed the BOS 190 can be pulled up into the vertical abruptly and then rolled on its back and pulled back down in a high-G roll. Is that 'agility'?

 

Really the only thing that the BOS 190 doesn't seem to like are spiral climbs and hard pulls on the stick when slow, the way that you can with a 109 or Yak. Is that a 'lack of agility'?

 

Could it be that the MKV Spitfires found themselves being attacked at high speed by 190s that they couldn't roll and turn to avoid quickly enough? Who only needed a split-second firing window? And that the Spitfires weren't fast enough to catch? I would think that to be pretty discouraging for them.

 

I'm not asking these questions to be a douche...just trying to figure out what the BOS 190 is missing in terms of agility that people think it should have based on data or historical accounts. From Eric Brown's report, it seems clear that being fast all the time in combat is key. And the BOS 190 is better than any of the game's other fighters when fast IMO.

 

All snarky idiocy aside, the reasonable (I am not smart enough to comment on whether reasonable = accurate) requests that I have see are:

1. High speed stall happens too easily.  This is the big one.

2. 190 should regain energy more quickly.

3. 190 roll rate seems fine, roll rate of other planes seems fast.

 

In that order, with item #1 by far the biggest issue.

 

Reasonable people are not asking for a better sustained turn, better climb,elimination of the high speed stall, or fairy dust.  

[Crump]

You heard it here first, folks. Lifting 50 lbs is impossible with one arm.

 

Guess the weights at my gym are labelled incorrectly.

 

 

The NACA studies on the maximum force a pilot can exert show the average stick force a pilot can exert is ~85lbs for lateral control depending on stick position.

 

50lbs is most certainly achievable and IMHO based on the combat measured data on the FW-190, obviously exceeded.