Flying the Fw 190 A-3 is challenging

[coconut]

Far from a good controllable snap roll.

 

Well, one knows when it starts, not when it ends. How could it be otherwise? One of the wings is stalled, after all. Getting out of it at the desired time requires a bit more aerobatic skills than I have.

 

The thing is, there are people who would tell you "you can't do this", when all it took me was 2 minutes in the QMB. It may not be pretty, but it was also the first time I attempted this maneuver in my life. This makes me seriously question the negative experience that one keeps seeing on the forum. I suspect a lot of it is grossly exaggerated.

 

 

 

I am fairly certain the FW as is right now in BOS looses a LOT of energy performing this "stall".

 

Starting the snap roll was actually relatively hard, the rudder was not enough, I also had to push the stick. I suppose the maximum angle of attack before stall should be lowered a bit.

 

OK, I'm just being provocative with that last sentence. But how is a stall (or half a stall in this case) supposed to not make you loose energy? A stall is all drag and no lift, right?

[Turban]

Negative.  You did not do snap rolls.  You did some horrible stalls.  

 

1.  Snap rolls begin and end controllably.  That issue is the degree of control which is not present in the FM.

 

2.  You do not push forward on the stick at any time to perform a positive G snap roll.  That is not the same maneuver believe it or not.

 

You must be able to stall the wing with rudder input and UNSTALL the wing with opposite rudder input. 

 

 

 

 

Pushing the stick is the entry into an OUTSIDE snap roll.  That is a negative G maneuver and a seperate animal from a normal snap roll.

 

 

 The control inputs for a snap roll are pretty simple.   About 30 degrees nose up elevator....rudder input to the wing you want to stall....opposite rudder when you want the wing to fly again.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a6585/how-to-snap-roll-a-stunt-plane/

You did not do the maneuver.

 

Crump, if you are so serious about the snap roll :

 

-provide us data on the FW "snap roll abilities".

 

You don't usually enter a snap roll whenever you feel like. Except if you're flying a plane purposely built for aerobatics. The FW isn't one. 

- So please provide us the data on how the FW pilots entered snap roll. Entry speed, power setting from beginning to end etc.

 

You don't get the same result on every plane. 

 

-So please provide actual pilot account on the FW snap roll abilities.

 

 

So far I see some sort of fictional legend being made up as if the FW could do snap rolls at any given moment with perfect results as if it was an Extra 300 or something. All that based on nothing of course, but wishful extrapolations/interpretations of fighting tales.

The "snap roll/stall" (whatever it was)  is more often described as a problem that was sometimes deliberately induced.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Turban

[Crump]

Well, one knows when it starts, not when it ends. How could it be otherwise? One of the wings is stalled, after all. Getting out of it at the desired time requires a bit more aerobatic skills than I have.   The thing is, there are people who would tell you "you can't do this", when all it took me was 2 minutes in the QMB. It may not be pretty, but it was also the first time I attempted this maneuver in my life. This makes me seriously question the negative experience that one keeps seeing on the forum. I suspect a lot of it is grossly exaggerated.

 

Negative.  You did not do snap rolls.  You did some horrible stalls.  

 

1.  Snap rolls begin and end controllably.  That issue is the degree of control which is not present in the FM.

 

2.  You do not push forward on the stick at any time to enter a positive G snap roll.  That is not the same maneuver believe it or not.

 

You must be able to stall the wing with rudder input and UNSTALL the wing with opposite rudder input. 

 

 

 

Starting the snap roll was actually relatively hard, the rudder was not enough, I also had to push the stick. I suppose the maximum angle of attack before stall should be lowered a bit.

 

Pushing the stick is the entry into an OUTSIDE snap roll.  That is a negative G maneuver and a seperate animal from a normal snap roll.

 

 

 The control inputs for a snap roll are pretty simple.   About 30 degrees nose up elevator....rudder input to the wing you want to stall....opposite rudder when you want the wing to fly again.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a6585/how-to-snap-roll-a-stunt-plane/

 

You did not do the maneuver.

 

Try doing a normal snap roll.  It is done and controlled with the rudders with just a little stick forward to help end the roll.

Edit'd for clarity....

[Crump]

 

 

Except if you're flying a plane purposely built for aerobatics. The FW isn't one. 

 

 

I think you are somewhat of a troll turban and might do better commenting on things you do know instead of casting baseless innuendo.

[Turban]

I think you are somewhat of a troll turban and might do better commenting on things you do know instead of casting baseless innuendo.

 

 

The amount of things you interpolate from that vague sentence is somewhat hilarious.

[coconut]

 

 

The control inputs for a snap roll are pretty simple. About 30 degrees nose up elevator....rudder input to the wing you want to stall....opposite rudder when you want the wing to fly again.

 

For the record, I tried that, and indeed no success.

 

To add insult to the injury, an AA truck head-shot me while I was trying to recover from the stall.

[Crump]

For the record, I tried that, and indeed no success.   To add insult to the injury, an AA truck head-shot me while I was trying to recover from the stall.

 

That is what I found too. 

 

Thank you for testing it out with the detail you provided.   

Edited October 10, 2016 by Crump

[CUJO_1970]

Exactly.

[Irgendjemand]

 

 

But how is a stall (or half a stall in this case) supposed to not make you loose energy? A stall is all drag and no lift, right?

 

I wasnt saying it would. I was just guessing. Thats why i said id love to see the indicator.

Whenever I do stall the 190 i loose lots of energy. At least it feels like.

[Livai]

See how easy it is to fly the Fw-190 -->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbjn3fIT3zE

[MK_RED13]

Nice flight Superghostboy..  but where is any action? All is just "at the right time at the right place.." sorry..  

[6./ZG26_Emil]

IRL 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkqbUahsiHg

[ShamrockOneFive]

See how easy it is to fly the Fw-190 -->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbjn3fIT3zE

 

Not bad!

 

Nice flight Superghostboy..  but where is any action? All is just "at the right time at the right place.." sorry..  

 

What do you mean by where is the action? Be it through luck or intention... most air combat is going to have a "right time, right place" aspect to it.

[Crump]

 

 

See how easy it is to fly the Fw-190 -->

 

Be even easier with the correct Clmax. 

Good job superghostboy....

 

Guys like you could fly a brick and be successful.

And for what it worth, the correct Clmax is not going to make the FW-190 become a turn fighter.  It still will have the highest stall speed and one of the largest turn radiuses of any World War II propeller fighter.

[CUJO_1970]

Way to push the envelope dude. Your video was an amazing demonstration of what we already know: the FW is fast and comes equipped with 4 cannons.

[Gambit21]

See how easy it is to fly the Fw-190 --> 

 

Not too bad, but I'd be more impressed if you didn't use icons as a crutch.

Also, you're leaving it to blind luck that a Yak pilot doesn't catch you while you're on the deck and pounce from above.

 

You happened to survive and got a few kills, but it's hardly an example of how to be successful in a pure BnZ plane consistently, especially alone.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Gambit21

[FTC_Etherlight]

It's a nice video, but let's be real here: IL-2s and P-40s are equally helpless and killing them is not really depending on the plane or fighting style. As long as you know how to operate the elevator axis and get guns on target - you win. ^^ There is only one other kill that does not fall under the "hehe, he's busy, let's eff him up" - regime of kills. As I said, nice video, but it's not really something that shows how "easy" it is to fly the FW or how well it performs in a combat situation on equal footing.

[Gambit21]

It's a nice video, but let's be real here: IL-2s and P-40s are equally helpless and killing them is not really depending on the plane or fighting style. As long as you know how to operate the elevator axis and get guns on target - you win. ^^ There is only one other kill that does not fall under the "hehe, he's busy, let's eff him up" - regime of kills. As I said, nice video, but it's not really something that shows how "easy" it is to fly the FW or how well it performs in a combat situation on equal footing.

 

Yep

Not that there's anything wrong with pouncing on a guy while he's busy, I used to do that all the time in Warlclouds while flying the 190.

Only I was smart, and went up high, then waited to see that light blue flash of a Yak or Lagg belly below me and I dive down and hit him at 650kph, then zoom back up.

I didn't fly around happy go lucky on the deck hoping no red pilot spotted me from above. 

[Turban]

Funny part is, that FW got shot down by the 109 that you see at the end. He actually came back to finish the job. 

 

Those 109 jokeys are a real piece of work 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Turban

[Livai]

Indeed, thanks @Turban that you mention it! Flying the Focke I have more fear from the 109 guys and their angry rant to shoot at everything that move!!!! Angry at guys who fly the 190 brick and are successful! If they are not able to shoot something down, angry that they themself not know how to fly themself the 190 brick with success angry from their own fails you will be the next who feels their angry rant falling from the skies because you managed something what they never were able to do themself!
 
Every game is build of "right time, right place"!
 
If IL-2, Pe-2, P-40, Mig-3 or Yaks falling from the skies those this really matter? You never know what the next enemy will be along the way! Right time and right place for you and for them wrong time and wrong place! Knowing the right place and the right timing where & when I go in and when & where I go out is the key to be successful!
 
How @Crump said: "Even with the correct Clmax is not going to make the FW-190 become a turn fighter. It still will have the highest stall speed and one of the largest turn radiuses of any World War II propeller fighter".

 

Those who are able to fly the 190 brick with success show clearly you can do it to be successful if you know how if you know to show up in the right time and right place show these 190 pilots some respect. Flying a 109 isn't requiring skills!

[Willy__]

I'm telling this for months. You can fly and be very sucessfull on the current 190. That does not mean its FM isnt wrong. Its still porked.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'm telling this for months. You can fly and be very sucessfull on the current 190. That does not mean its FM isnt wrong. Its still porked.

 

It's part of the circle of the FM argument. Someone says the plane is wrong, a group breaks off trying to find data to support/refute, another group says its wrong because they can't do well in it (so it must be wrong), then someone shows that you can do well in it (even easier these days with track recording and YouTube), and then someone like yourself points out how relevant that is to the topic .... and then we begin again.

[PatrickAWlson]

There were definitely some nice maneuvers in the video (at least much better than I can manage) but really nothing that demonstrated an ability to make an abrupt maneuver without falling out of the sky.  Still, compliments to Ghost Boy for smooth flying and even more so for good shooting.

 

The extent of the FM argument is really just about the envelope of the stall.  Everybody acknowledges that the 190 should be lousy in a sustained turn.  Everybody acknowledges that the stall existed.  We're really talking about is where in (or outside) the envelope departure from controlled flight should occur.  It shouldn't be an emotional, name calling argument and probably shouldn't go for 18 pages either ... but here we are, still posting, myself included

[MasterBaiter]

The hell did I just watch.. I will never understand why people are using external views to showcase a dogfight or a sortie; pointless.

 

Anyway, idd you can be successfull with the actual 190, but it still doesn't fly as it should.

[=CFC=Conky]

What do all those 'Hinweis' messages that flash by so quickly mean? 

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

If I remember my German correct it means : Advice, Tip , Hint or clue depending on context. But I'm just a Swede with a lot of years between me and school so I could be wrong.

[Asgar]

you're correct

[Crump]

The Yak is a tough customer for both the Bf-109 and the FW-190.  It should be a tough customer.  It is a good design.  

[coconut]

Nice flight Superghostboy

 

 

Your video

  

 

compliments to Ghost Boy for smooth flying

 

 

Good job superghostboy

 

The flying is by pilot Meow.Scharfi as shown at 12m52s.

The video is by YouTube user Arianne Ari.

 

AFAIK these people are not SuperGhostBoy.

 

if you didn't use icons as a crutch

You can't tell if he/she used icons while flying from a track recording.

[Crump]

 

 

The flying is by pilot Meow.Scharfi as shown at 12m52s. The video is by YouTube user Arianne Ari. AFAIK these people are not SuperGhostBoy.

 

Shame on you superghostboy...stealing another mans laurels...

 

Ahhh...So is it even the current FM of the FW190? 

[Livai]

AFAIK these people are not SuperGhostBoy.

 

SuperGhostBoy here there everywhere in the whole wide world!!!!!!

 

Shame on you superghostboy...stealing another mans laurels...

 

This video was remaining faceless at the moment I posted it. All what followed after this was really to die laughing to read and to see how others stealing another mans laurels for me... and how long it takes to notice their own biggest fault!!!!

 

 

 

Good grief, shameful behaviour indeed. :|

 

The best part is "I haven't done anything"! This job was done by others!   

Edited October 15, 2016 by Superghostboy

[Crump]

I am glad you were amused!  A little low on the Parten's scale but I am happy for you.  

[tailwheel]

True, could not agree more on that ... and that why its a pleasure to fly her in pair or in schwarm when you fly in an organized squad 

Now we just need to recover the 2015 version we had in BOS (at least ...) because those flying tactics are not so useful in the hangar.

I'd vote for that at least. Otherwise I just use it to harass bombers or actually just for ground pounding. For giving somebody else some fun in air to air, this bird is not what I would choose.

[LLv24_Zami]

Whoever that pilot is in those videos, awesome flying and shooting!

[GridiroN]

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

The flying is by pilot Meow.Scharfi as shown at 12m52s.

The video is by YouTube user Arianne Ari.

 

AFAIK these people are not SuperGhostBoy.

 

 

You can't tell if he/she used icons while flying from a track recording.

 

There's no way this is the current FM. 

[Turban]

Of course it is.

[303_Kwiatek]

It is just hit and run on these video nothing unussusal no fight at all

[6./ZG26_Emil]

It is just hit and run on these video nothing unussusal no fight at all

 

Correct don't 'fight' just kill and use team work.....that's how it was in WW2 as well.

[Dr_Molem]

It is just hit and run on these video nothing unussusal no fight at all

 

Exactly... I don't understand the hype around this video.

[beepee]

Hit and run was (and still is) a valid tactic.