I'll still buy it

[BM357_TinMan]

SIGH*  Another eastern front with no western anywhere near on the horizon......

[Jason_Williams]

I don't think you read the entire announcement.

 

Jason

[J37_Spyboy]

_{Way to go Jason, so polite}

Edited September 9, 2016 by Spyboy

[BM357_TinMan]

Maybe I did miss something in the announcement.

From what I saw, it went, Eastern, pacific, pacific.  No western europe late or early.

Don't get me wrong, I mean what I say, I'll still continue to support it.  This Sim is, in my opinion, pretty good and worth the money I've spent and will spend.  I'm just a "Western Europe Theater" fanboy.

[wtornado]

Think of flying a Wildcat or a Martlet off a carrier deck.

 

They have to put in the Wildcat it was one of my favorite IL-2 1946 planes.

[dburne]

I am very ecxited about the prospects of getting to the Pacific with some carrier operations!

[MrNoice]

Yes you are right  ! but they said they dont like western front so much because we would need a big map ( I think only because no russian planes involved "sarcasm") :D

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Patience, they never said never. It's a big war and a small design company.........................................

[Cpt_Cool]

Its unfortunate, but the technology has a ways to go before the western air war can be done correctly. I think the number of planes is a bigger roadblock than the map size.  Hundreds of bombers and hundreds more interceptors and escorts all with AI at this detail takes colossal computing power. Someday, somebody will be able to do it, and I hope it is this team that does, but I agree with Jason when he said there are better places to go in the meantime.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I suspect we will eventually get a TACTICAL Western Front. That was no small undertaking either (medium bombers, attack aircraft, fighters, recon, etc) but the AI scripting for a sky full of B17's and/or B24's would grind this game to a complete halt, not to mention the number of ground objects and thier requisite AI scripting will be only slightly smaller than some of the coming huge Eastern front armored encounters. The complexity of aircraft systems and AI scripting is light years more complicated than what has come before this in '46.

 

I'm a Dora and Pony driver at heart but I see the overall arc of the sim as it stands is moving west. With that said, I also suspect we may also go East at least one more time (Kursk) and probably twice (Berlin). My money is on heading to Kursk before getting to a proper Western theater. It actually makes more sense to go Kursk, Med, then the continent but we'll see. The mid-term goals have been stated. I wouldn't plan on seeing a long term goal posted for another couple of years.

Edited September 9, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[VBF-12_Stele]

I honestly feel like this is old IL2 development all over again, which is perfectly fine. IL2-46 didn't happen over night, but the development gave us a great sim in the end, and a great platform for the modders to work with. A lot of the points made by the community today (good and bad) are very similar to those in the past. I'm not worried, although I really can't wait for Pacific (and I may have a few more gray hairs by then), but it's great that we have something to look forward to in the meantime. I think other developers won't or can't even tell you what will happen in two months.

[kissklas]

Maybe I did miss something in the announcement.

 

From what I saw, it went, Eastern, pacific, pacific.  No western europe late or early.

 

Don't get me wrong, I mean what I say, I'll still continue to support it.  This Sim is, in my opinion, pretty good and worth the money I've spent and will spend.  I'm just a "Western Europe Theater" fanboy.

Well we do get some lendlease aircrafts! AND the terrain for this next release has sea and mountains. So thinking about it, we do actually get a fair share of both western planes and similar environments:D

 

I could not be happier, as I really like the Soviet and British planes. And the variation in landscape was kind of the one thing that was missing for me.

 

...but,of course I do hope to fly through the Norwegian fjords at some point in the future

[Bullets]

My wish is to fly a hurricane over the English Channel maybe one day... They already made a top notch map of the channel for ROF I wonder how easy it would be to transfer it over to IL2?   

[Jason_Williams]

By west we refer to it internally anything not Eastern Front which Pacific is not. As I've tried to explain a true Western Front sim is difficult to do, due to the nature of the air war there. You're basically left with either Battle of Britain, Normandy or Battle of the Bulge. Only BOB is strategic in nature, the other maps are tactical. But we all know the Air War in the west was largely famous for strategic bomber raids over long distances. Not something I can tackle. I can barely tackle the Kuban at the moment. It's just going to be a long process with current realities.

 

Jason

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

As stated by the man himself............................

[=CFC=Conky]

Hello all,

 

It's interesting that some claim that for various reasons it's too hard to program large bomber formations, yet there was a WW2 sim that did just that, Microprose's European Air War, that allowed up to 256 aircraft on-sreen at one time. When it was released, it was a state-of-the-art game; graphics, ai, fm's, dm's, everything was as good as it got back then.

 

I'm not not a programmer, nor am I complaining about the development of the BoX series. I imagine there would be trade-offs to make it work, i.e. lower ground detail during combat (remember we had that in the Dynamix 'Aces' series). Of course nowadays any compromise at all is met with howls of derision, but really, you can't have everything.

 

Yet.  

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky 

[9./JG27golani79]

Hello all,

 

It's interesting that some claim that for various reasons it's too hard to program large bomber formations, yet there was a WW2 sim that did just that, Microprose's European Air War, that allowed up to 256 aircraft on-sreen at one time. When it was released, it was a state-of-the-art game; graphics, ai, fm's, dm's, everything was as good as it got back then.

 

I'm not not a programmer, nor am I complaining about the development of the BoX series. I imagine there would be trade-offs to make it work, i.e. lower ground detail during combat (remember we had that in the Dynamix 'Aces' series). Of course nowadays any compromise at all is met with howls of derision, but really, you can't have everything.

 

Yet.

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky 

 

I think one problem might be that we have much more detailled FMs than in the "old days" - so much more to process which could turn out to be difficult when it comes to really large formations in regards to user PCs and or engine.

[Cpt_Cool]

EAW was my favorite growing up, (MSCF2 was a close second) but computer flight modeling has gotten much much more complicated, and personal computers have not kept up. The trade off would be to drastically, nay, catastrophically simplify the FM and AI. On top of that, the market doesn't appear to be able to support maximum development needed to tackle a game of that scale. One day we will get there i am sure.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Hello all,

 

It's interesting that some claim that for various reasons it's too hard to program large bomber formations, yet there was a WW2 sim that did just that, Microprose's European Air War, that allowed up to 256 aircraft on-sreen at one time. When it was released, it was a state-of-the-art game; graphics, ai, fm's, dm's, everything was as good as it got back then.

 

I'm not not a programmer, nor am I complaining about the development of the BoX series. I imagine there would be trade-offs to make it work, i.e. lower ground detail during combat (remember we had that in the Dynamix 'Aces' series). Of course nowadays any compromise at all is met with howls of derision, but really, you can't have everything.

 

Yet.

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky 

 

 

Compared to the modern IL-2's, those sims were made of paper mache and wire.  They can't be compared.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Silas

[von_Tom]

But we all know the Air War in the west was largely famous for strategic bomber raids over long distances.

 

Jason

 

 

The strategic bomber raids were a big part for sure, but don't forget the Malta defence, Malta as a base for attacking Sicily/Italy, DAF, all of the stuff up through Italy, 2nd TAF throughout Normandy and the low countries and so on.  All of this sort of stuff would be brilliant.  See the suggestion for the Gustav Line for example.

 

Personally speaking I cannot see the thrill in an 8 hour flight escorting heavies and I really don't think that the strategic bombing campaign can really be done right for gameplay purposes.

 

Just my 2p.

 

von Tom

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

And what about Battle of France?

[ShamrockOneFive]

I know lots of people are interested in the big bomber war but IMHO, the tactical air war in Normandy was immensely interesting to me. I ended up buying all three books on the RAF 2nd TAF and the operations detailed there are very exciting and very similar to the types of ops flown in the East. The tactical stuff with medium bombers, fighter sweeps, V-1 site attacks, rocket attacks on armored columns with Typhoons and Thunderbolts... that's really cool stuff. Online with IL-2 1946, the absolute best and most intense missions I flew were Spitfire vs 109 and 190 (me flying on both sides) somewhere just inland of the invasion beaches.

 

I hope to go back there sometime.

 

But the Kuban is another online scenario I had a ton of fun with before and look forward to revisiting. The Pacific was my first real flight simulator experience (Aces of the Pacific) and while its a little less exciting to me... I'm still pretty exited to see what they can do with Midway, Okinawa, or whatever else happens.

[bzc3lk]

I honestly feel like this is old IL2 development all over again, which is perfectly fine. IL2-46 didn't happen over night, but the development gave us a great sim in the end, and a great platform for the modders to work with. A lot of the points made by the community today (good and bad) are very similar to those in the past. I'm not worried, although I really can't wait for Pacific (and I may have a few more gray hairs by then), but it's great that we have something to look forward to in the meantime. I think other developers won't or can't even tell you what will happen in two months.

 

Fully agree.  The Pacific theatre with this game engine is my dream come true.

[Danziger]

I think they could do Western Europe the same way they are doing the Eastern Front. Break it down into smaller pieces. Focus on the fighter and ground attack aspects while using the lighter bombers like we have been. B-25s and B-26s did some smaller scale bombing operations than the huge formations of B-17s and B-24s.

 

I think it could still be very interesting even without 16 hour strategic bombing missions.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Probably can't do Berlin or other large city strikes and some industrial targets without heavies but not having them on the table for almost everything else is not catastrophic. We don't really have large cities modelled for overflights yet anyway. Those kinds of missions are more applicable to a bomber study sim rather than one looking for mass appeal. Id be happy to have them if feasible but not desperate for them either.

Edited September 10, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Rjel]

I think they could do Western Europe the same way they are doing the Eastern Front. Break it down into smaller pieces. Focus on the fighter and ground attack aspects while using the lighter bombers like we have been. B-25s and B-26s did some smaller scale bombing operations than the huge formations of B-17s and B-24s.

 

I think it could still be very interesting even without 16 hour strategic bombing missions.

I don't think many B-25 missions were flown from England at least not by the USAAF. They settled on the B-26 as the standard medium bomber in Europe pretty early on. The B-26 could be a very enjoyable A/C to fly in this sim. I'd love to fly MP as a turret gunner.

[=CFC=Conky]

Compared to the modern IL-2's, those sims were made of paper mache and wire.  They can't be compared.

Yes and no. At the time, sims like EAW, Aces series, Jane's WW2 fighters were on the cutting edge and taxed existing hardware, not unlike the current BoX series. The programmers still had to create a game that would be playable on existing recent hardware, albeit sometimes at lower graphics settings, and they were still able to have large numbers of aircraft on screen.

 

In EAW, attacking a large formation of bombers was a very dangerous affair, even with the more primitive ai and physics. Granted, today more things are modelled within a sim, such as the path of each round fired (IL21946). I'm not sure if the game would suffer if this was dropped, but then again, I'm not fussy about the quality of the raindrops or snowflakes either, or hi-res grass for that matter. Of course many players and/or programmers do care about these things and the final product is lovely. Personally, I would be willing to give up some eye candy and ballistics modelling - not all, in order to get things like more aircraft on screen or more effective ai routines.

 

That said, I have no idea if this would be possible, or even desirable from a business standpoint, at this time.

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

[ShamrockOneFive]

I don't think many B-25 missions were flown from England at least not by the USAAF. They settled on the B-26 as the standard medium bomber in Europe pretty early on. The B-26 could be a very enjoyable A/C to fly in this sim. I'd love to fly MP as a turret gunner.

None in-fact. Mitchell use over Western Europe was RAF and Commonwealth air forces only and the B-26 was the workhorse of the USAAF.

 

TBH, I'd love to see a B-26 sometime. I've never flown one in a combat sim.

[Bullets]

By west we refer to it internally anything not Eastern Front which Pacific is not. As I've tried to explain a true Western Front sim is difficult to do, due to the nature of the air war there. You're basically left with either Battle of Britain, Normandy or Battle of the Bulge. Only BOB is strategic in nature, the other maps are tactical. But we all know the Air War in the west was largely famous for strategic bomber raids over long distances. Not something I can tackle. I can barely tackle the Kuban at the moment. It's just going to be a long process with current realities.

 

Jason

 

Maybe a BoB/Channel map could be a DLC map and not have any campaign aspects too it? Leave it to the mission builders Im sure they will devise something cool??

[LuftManu]

A Mid 1943 or early 1944 would match with the current road map after Eastern front.

 

Fighter sweeps and inland attacks can be fun. Let alone night-sorties.

 

There is no need for Big bomber formations, Devs can also optate for make something like a "optimised" bomber formation but there is not need at all.

[BlitzPig_EL]

In the original IL2, I, and many others, used the Kuban map as a stand in for many different scenarios.  It has wonderfully varied terrain and presents good challenges for the tactical flyer, no matter which country one is "flying for".

 

I'm sure that once we get the Kuban map in this series the same things will happen.  There are a lot of very clever mission makers out there, and we will have a very interesting plane set once the Pacific is released, though there may not be any Imperial Japanese Army aircraft at first.   Still the Kuban will make a good canvas for those with minds open enough to use it as a stand in map.

[Guest deleted@103832]

With a western campaign looking to be almost past the foreseeable horizon, I guess my dream would be closer to the moon, but I would love to see a night environment with streams of Wellingtons with a few Beaufighters and Mosquitos pitted against radar-equipped Bf 110s and Ju 88s, Wilde Sau 109s and 190s, and of course the He 219...

[xThrottle_Geek]

Ok, I am excited! Just ordered the BoM and Ju-52 from Dev website to offer up my full support going forward. I feel really good about it. (because usually I feel slightly icky pre-ordering anything)     

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

Pacific blehh,never had an interest in that side of things,the American planes early on sucked and the Japanese planes were made of paper. I think the logical choice would have been North Africa as we already have many of the planes that fought there (P-40,He111,Ju88,Ju52,BF109 all variety Mc202 ect.) Most people wanted the Western front,I can see it now my 109 diving in pounding AI/player B-17 formations...

[ShamrockOneFive]

Pacific blehh,never had an interest in that side of things,the American planes early on sucked and the Japanese planes were made of paper. I think the logical choice would have been North Africa as we already have many of the planes that fought there (P-40,He111,Ju88,Ju52,BF109 all variety Mc202 ect.) Most people wanted the Western front,I can see it now my 109 diving in pounding AI/player B-17 formations...

 

You may underestimate the interest that is out there for the Pacific theater. Both the American planes sucking and the Japanese planes being made of paper are generalizations. Yes, the Zero is quite lightweight but the Val and Kate were a bit tougher. The aircraft at Midway were actually very interesting when you dig into their capabilities. You may find the Wildcat surprising for example.

 

Can't dispute that North Africa or Western Front being of interest too. But the Pacific will bring in players that we might not have seen otherwise.

[sinned]

I have bot BOS in hope to support 777 team for a pacific theatre later in the future.

I am under the impression that there are many others who supported (by buying) eastern europe theatre so that there is a chance of their favorite theatre to be offered i the future.

 

Eastern europe fans will enjoy another europe theatre (BOK) on back of strong BOS sales. BOS sales supported silently by some of those who wanted other theatres.

 

I hope some non pacific fans wld be kind enuf t return some favors. I will also be picking up BOM and premium planes so i may be of some help to eastern eu fans can enjoy more new features into BOS BOM and BOK as well as pacific fans have better chance of taking off from their fav ww2 carrier.

[PatrickAWlson]

By west we refer to it internally anything not Eastern Front which Pacific is not. As I've tried to explain a true Western Front sim is difficult to do, due to the nature of the air war there. You're basically left with either Battle of Britain, Normandy or Battle of the Bulge. Only BOB is strategic in nature, the other maps are tactical. But we all know the Air War in the west was largely famous for strategic bomber raids over long distances. Not something I can tackle. I can barely tackle the Kuban at the moment. It's just going to be a long process with current realities.

 

Jason

 

 

The tactical war in Europe would be a different take.  Normandy and the Bulge are the two most famous battles, but also the march across France.  Does the RoF map help?  P-38, P-47,Typhoons, B-26, Mosquito, FW-190 A-8, Me-109 G6, later the FW-190 D and Me-109 K.    Earlier you have the channel fights.  I could see those titles being successful wiitthout the need to get into the strategic aspects.

[Danziger]

The tactical war in Europe would be a different take. Normandy and the Bulge are the two most famous battles, but also the march across France. Does the RoF map help? P-38, P-47,Typhoons, B-26, Mosquito, FW-190 A-8, Me-109 G6, later the FW-190 D and Me-109 K. Earlier you have the channel fights. I could see those titles being successful wiitthout the need to get into the strategic aspects.

 

My exact thoughts exactly.