A-20B thoughts

[ShamrockOneFive]

Well, we are Discussing the possibility of becoming a more Neutral Squadron anyways and I certainy do enjoy both sides pretty much 50/50, and I think most of my Mates do as well.

The biggest Problem for us I think is the Lack of a Bomber with a Proper Bombload. And an A-20B with 2 tons would certainly attract me back into flying Russians a lot more. 

 

Rippling 16-20 bombs out of the bays and wings of the A-20 will be great!

 

I'm pretty excited about flying this bird again!

[Venturi]

Its more about soviets considering US bombload limits rather "too conservative".

And first DB-7s (Boston III) had limitations of only 4 bomb fittings inside bombay which at the end limited your bombload to max 4x227/250kg. If soviet commander needed 100kg FAB bombs for the mission,well,only 4 could be fitted inside bringing your max load down by half.

Thats why soviets installed their domestic systems increasing the bombload .And more importantly,it gave more flexibility to the bomb mix the plane could carry.

 

Don't forget, self-sealing fuel tanks were heavy af.

[Gambit21]

Rippling 16-20 bombs out of the bays and wings of the A-20 will be great!

 

I'm pretty excited about flying this bird again!

Me too

Looking forward to designing some nice convoy interdiction missions in those valleys on the Kuban map.

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that will be the next campaign I create after the Ju52 campaign.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Me too

Looking forward to designing some nice convoy interdiction missions in those valleys on the Kuban map.

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that will be the next campaign I create after the Ju52 campaign.

 

I'd play it :D

[BlitzPig_EL]

The -B only has two forward firing guns, in VVS service what were they?

 

I sure hope they are not merely two Browning guns chambered in the US 30-06 rifle cartridge, like the wing guns on Hawk 81s.

Edited February 19, 2017 by BlitzPig_EL

[ShamrockOneFive]

The -B only has two forward firing guns, in VVS service what were they?

 

I sure hope they are not merely two Browning guns chambered in the US 30-06 rifle cartridge, like the wing guns on Hawk 81s.

 

That was something I was asking myself a little while ago and it looks like the two machine guns are .50cals.

 

http://www.joebaugher.com/usattack/a20_11.html

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_douglas_A-20B_Havoc.html

 

This pleases me as I thought initially they may be .30cals which is kind of light... But twin .50cal can actually do some damage to light targets and double as forward defense against attacking fighters.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Great news there.

 

Will make it possible to get the odd kill on an opposing aircraft if necessary.

[Brano]

A20B remained with original 2x forward firing12.7mm Brownings.

 

Replacement of 7.7mm Brownings for 12.7mm UBs was done for DB-7B/C and A20C models by Zavod nr.81.Till the end of 1942 they were able to modify 80 aircrafts. There was plan to finish another 225 beginning of 1943,but it was not possible to send bostons from combat units back for modifications.They were needed at the front.

UTK-1 turrets

A20B was equipped with 12.7mm Browning,because this gun was allready there before modification (with original US mount)

A20C and DB-7B/C had UBT installed as total replacement for 7.7mm Browning

[Gambit21]

Good news - I didn't realize it had any forward firing guns at all. Should work on trucks

[ShamrockOneFive]

Good news - I didn't realize it had any forward firing guns at all. Should work on trucks

 

Exactly. Also, depending on how the ship systems end up working... hopefully you can use them to keep some of the lighter less armored turret gunners down while you're making a mast top attack.

[Juri_JS]

I have a question for the A-20 experts. Was the A-20B able to carry naval mines and if yes, was it used over the Black Sea for mine-laying operations?

Edited February 20, 2017 by Juri_JS

[Custard]

I have a question for the A-20 experts. Was the A-20B able to carry naval mines and if yes, was it used over the Black Sea for mine-laying operations?

 

Either way I very much doubt we'll be able to lay sea mines in Kuban, the devs haven't mentioned any such technology so I'm doubtful. As for IRL? I'm sure one of the knowledgeable chaps here will know.

[Juri_JS]

Either way I very much doubt we'll be able to lay sea mines in Kuban, the devs haven't mentioned any such technology so I'm doubtful.

That's not the reason for my question. At the moment I am researching the German defense of the Kerch Strait for future mission building projects, but I can't find any information if only the Il-4/DB-3 was used in aerial mining operations in the area or also the A-20.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Juri_JS

[Brano]

Mine laying was possible with version A-20G. 36.MTAB of Black Sea Fleet received first Gs in june 1943, but complete rearmament was done only in spring 1944.

Soviets marked them as A-20Zh. Crews called them familiary "Zhuchok" (little bug)

Usually you could load mines of these types:

Soviet

Moored contact type AMG-1

Ground magnetic type AMD-500

Ground magnetic type AMD-1000

 

British

A Mk.I,Mk IV,Mk V

 

Significant minelaying operations started in april 1944,when Bostons of 36.MTAP mined Danube estuary and approaches to ports of Constanca and Sulina (Romania). I dont have any info on minelaying of Kerch strait by Bostons during Kuban battle.

[Juri_JS]

Beginning in May 1943 German sources mention increased nightly aerial mine laying activity in the Kerch Strait by Soviet bombers using British Mines. German night fighters defending the area also claim some Bostons during this time, but these could have been normal level bombers, moreover identification of Soviet aircraft by German pilots is often very unreliable.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Some old footage of A20 being shot down to keep red morale low

https://youtu.be/v1ZdUI3CG8E

Ambush kills after reading Hartmans book.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I attended the USAF's 40th birthday celebration at USAF Musem in Dayton in 1987.  They had their A 20 G out on the flight line for it, and there was an old USAAF WW2 vet there talking about flying the A 20.  Turns out the aircraft in the museum was the very airplane he flew.   He was swarmed with people talking to him, so I only got one question in, and his answer is so typical of a pilot..

 

I asked him how fast it could go in combat conditions...

 

"Depends on who is chasing you..."

 

I'll never forget that.

[LukeFF]

New image showing the team hard at work on the A-20 model: 

 

[Brano]

Thats A-20C 

[Pharoah]

Now that the Kuban map is out.....how are we going for the A20B? The VVS is in dire need of some additional bombers to offset the Luftwaffe having multiple (H111/JU88) plus the JU87, BF110 and now the HS129. The VVS only has the PE2 and IL2 currently. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Give the -2s some credit though!

 

The Pe-2 can haul 1000kg, it eclipses the He-111 in all aspects bar bombload, slightly edges the Ju-88 as well, it's a better dive bomber than both the Ju-88 and Ju-87, and it's much more survivable than the Hs-129 for soft targets and armoured targets with rockets.

 

The Il-2 is the ideal ground attack aircraft - manoeuvres well, good bombload, very wide range of weapons for every kind of target, and can sting in the hands of a good pilot. The Bf-110 can't take as much punishment, the Ju-87 is very obsolete overall, and the Hs-129 suffers in flight performance.

 

Yes, love makes it hard to judge them objectively but the Pe-2 and Il-2 really shine in their roles.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Now that the Kuban map is out.....how are we going for the A20B? The VVS is in dire need of some additional bombers to offset the Luftwaffe having multiple (H111/JU88) plus the JU87, BF110 and now the HS129. The VVS only has the PE2 and IL2 currently. 

 

This is the roadmap:

https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/12/07/battle-of-kuban-what-content-is-coming-and-when/

 

A-20B and the P-39L-1 are the last two on the schedule. Jason said multi station bombers are always most complex and take the most time to do.

 

 

Give the -2s some credit though!

 

The Pe-2 can haul 1000kg, it eclipses the He-111 in all aspects bar bombload, slightly edges the Ju-88 as well, it's a better dive bomber than both the Ju-88 and Ju-87, and it's much more survivable than the Hs-129 for soft targets and armoured targets with rockets.

 

The Il-2 is the ideal ground attack aircraft - manoeuvres well, good bombload, very wide range of weapons for every kind of target, and can sting in the hands of a good pilot. The Bf-110 can't take as much punishment, the Ju-87 is very obsolete overall, and the Hs-129 suffers in flight performance.

 

Yes, love makes it hard to judge them objectively but the Pe-2 and Il-2 really shine in their roles.

 

Agreed! Pe-2s are excellent aircraft and not always given as much kudos. I think mostly because they are still sort of an unknown.

[Heliopause]

[CanadaOne]

This is the roadmap:

https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/12/07/battle-of-kuban-what-content-is-coming-and-when/

 

A-20B and the P-39L-1 are the last two on the schedule. Jason said multi station bombers are always most complex and take the most time to do.

 

 

 

Agreed! Pe-2s are excellent aircraft and not always given as much kudos. I think mostly because they are still sort of an unknown.

 

 

Just to let you know, again, your site looks great.

[Recon]

A20 was my favorite bird of choice in Il2 1946 - looking forward to flying it!

[ShamrockOneFive]

Just to let you know, again, your site looks great.

 

Thank you sir! Always appreciate!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Great plane to suddenly play fighter when in groups after dropping bombs

[BlitzPig_EL]

Oh yeah, the A 20G would shred unsuspecting A6Ms and Ki 43s.

[ShamrockOneFive]

If they did do a A-20G for the Pacific sometime... we'd also be able to use it in Kuban. That'd be a lot of bang for the buck on that.

[Royal_Flight]

So, probably a stupid question... where in the 'food chain' of roles does the A-20/Boston sit amongst the a/c we have?

It's bigger and heavier than a Peshka, and not a dive bomber like the Ju88, but not a pure level bomber like the He111, is that about right?

 

I'm trying to work out how best to use it.

6,000lbs of ordinance mean it should be capable of level bombing st medium altitude but it should also be more than adept at fast, low-level strikes with bombs and strafing attacks with guns, and anti-shipping.

 

I know of some of the roles it has been historically used for, I'm thinking in terms of multiplayer where I'm a die-hard Peshka fan (not entirely figuratively either, I get shot down in flames now and again). I'm keen to do some proper bombing from altitude as the Peshka isn't ideal for that but as long as I can get away with tearing in 50ft off the deck to wreck face against an enemy airfield, bridge or railway station then I'll be happy.

 

Either way I'm looking forward to the A-20.

[Max_Damage]

Give the -2s some credit though!

 

The Pe-2 can haul 1000kg, it eclipses the He-111 in all aspects bar bombload, slightly edges the Ju-88 as well, it's a better dive bomber than both the Ju-88 and Ju-87, and it's much more survivable than the Hs-129 for soft targets and armoured targets with rockets.

 

The Il-2 is the ideal ground attack aircraft - manoeuvres well, good bombload, very wide range of weapons for every kind of target, and can sting in the hands of a good pilot. The Bf-110 can't take as much punishment, the Ju-87 is very obsolete overall, and the Hs-129 suffers in flight performance.

 

Yes, love makes it hard to judge them objectively but the Pe-2 and Il-2 really shine in their roles.

Pe 2 has a really bad bombload for its role. For excellent look at Tu-2.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

It's going to be like a Peshka, but faster and with a bigger bombload, 1800 Kg / 2000 Kg in small bombs apparently, with big/medium bombs looks like 1500 Kg I think (one 1000 Kg center bomb bay and 2 x 250 Kg in the wings?). A bit less defensive armament though (the M2 isn't in a turret mount, doesn't have explosive ammo and has a slower rate of fire). Not as dedicated to dive bombing as the Pe-2, but in level bombing would be better because of being faster and having a more sophisticated bomb sight (from what I saw in some of the training videos posted in the forum about it).

Edited September 5, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Alexmarine]

Oh yeah, the A 20G would shred unsuspecting A6Ms and Ki 43s.

Reminds me of an occasion when a friendly Pe-2 mistook my LaGG for a Macchi and decided to shoot at it... Had to make it back to the airfield with an hole the size of my pilot's head on the left wing

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

With BoK both sides will have the three basic air-to-ground types. Pure attack in the Il-2/Hs-129, dive bombing with the Pe-2/Ju-87, and level bombing with the A-20/He-111/Ju-88.

 

The difference in my eyes is that while the Luftwaffe set is more specialised, the VVS one is much more versatile which to me is great since objectives change very fast with targets of opportunity popping up left and right.

[ShamrockOneFive]

So, probably a stupid question... where in the 'food chain' of roles does the A-20/Boston sit amongst the a/c we have?

It's bigger and heavier than a Peshka, and not a dive bomber like the Ju88, but not a pure level bomber like the He111, is that about right?

 

I'm trying to work out how best to use it.

6,000lbs of ordinance mean it should be capable of level bombing st medium altitude but it should also be more than adept at fast, low-level strikes with bombs and strafing attacks with guns, and anti-shipping.

 

I know of some of the roles it has been historically used for, I'm thinking in terms of multiplayer where I'm a die-hard Peshka fan (not entirely figuratively either, I get shot down in flames now and again). I'm keen to do some proper bombing from altitude as the Peshka isn't ideal for that but as long as I can get away with tearing in 50ft off the deck to wreck face against an enemy airfield, bridge or railway station then I'll be happy.

 

Either way I'm looking forward to the A-20.

 

Not a stupid question at all. The A-20 is a bit of an "odd one" when it comes to roles. It was designed to be a light bomber but that is by USAAC nomenclature which means its a medium bomber by some other air forces of the time. It has a good bombload and a high top speed thanks to two fairly strong engines. It's also well built and fairly sturdy although the A-20B version lacks some of the armor that the later versions had. Nonetheless its not a weak aircraft by any stretch of the imagination.

 

From what I've read about it and my experiences with the IL-2: 1946 version (which may have been a little OP) the aircraft handles really well too. So you have a fast bomber, with a reasonably powerful and flexible bombload, carried primarily in an internal bomb bay with external bomb options and it has decent forward firepower with a pair of .50cal machine guns in the chin. This is a really well rounded and flexible aircraft.

 

I think you're going to see a lot of these in Kuban era multiplayer battles. They are good at low level attacks and skip bombing against ships as well as up at higher altitudes using its level bombsight. Really quite a good aircraft and its no small wonder than the USSR ordered quite a lot of them in the B, C and G variants. The biggest weakness of the B model is the lack of armor and the defensive armament is not on powered turrets like the A-20G and J versions. Red team will have some good choices between the Pe-2's dive bombing capabilities and the A-20Bs low alt and level bombing options.

[Royal_Flight]

Sounds good... I was looking forward to it anyway but by the sounds of things I'll definitely have some use for the A-20.

There's something about high speed and low level that's hard to give up once you're used to it...

 

Thanks to all for the helpful answers.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Royal_Flight

[Legioneod]

So what exactly is the bomb-load for the A-20? I've read 4,000lbs in some places and then 2000lbs in others, not sure which one it is though.

 

I like the Pe2 but it's bomb-load is lacking for my taste. I'm hoping for something that is a decent level bomber, something similar to the He 111.

[Pharoah]

I read it was 4000lb (1800kg?)

[Gambit21]

So what exactly is the bomb-load for the A-20? I've read 4,000lbs in some places and then 2000lbs in others, not sure which one it is though.

 

I like the Pe2 but it's bomb-load is lacking for my taste. I'm hoping for something that is a decent level bomber, something similar to the He 111.

Bah! It's all about down low/mast level bombing with that bird.

 

I've finished building the first mission of the A-20 scripted campaign, starting mission 2 tomorrow.

You guys will be happy (unless you expect level bombing) in which case you'll have to look elsewhere for your

A-20 fix. Around here we keep it in the weeds.

 

Using the Pe-2 as a stand-in for building and testing purposes for the moment.

As soon as I get my mits on the A-20 I'll just switch the aircraft type.

[Mesha44]

Bah! It's all about down low/mast level bombing with that bird.

 

I've finished building the first mission of the A-20 scripted campaign, starting mission 2 tomorrow.

You guys will be happy (unless you expect level bombing) in which case you'll have to look elsewhere for your

A-20 fix. Around here we keep it in the weeds.

 

Using the Pe-2 as a stand-in for building and testing purposes for the moment.

As soon as I get my mits on the A-20 I'll just switch the aircraft type.

Well, it's been six hours since you posted that, are you done with the campaign yet? 

 

I really can't wait for this plane to come out.