Bf 109 G-4 or G-6

[XQ_Lothar29]

I think it is very necessary that developers change the BF109G4 for G6, since they're selling us the same plane we already have BoS

 

other than that the G6 if he was in KUBAN, this 109 had major improvements

 

I want to do reflection and change, because they do not want to buy 3 times the same plane, I think anyone here wants neither

[Pupo]

I'll add my voice supporting a G6. It would just add way more to the ingame planeset. Early BOK missions could have the G2 instead and no G6 available. 

 

cheers

Edited September 12, 2016 by Pupo

[Jocko]

If I heard right Jason said during the Q and A that the G6 and La5F would be offered as collector planes only IF they finished Kuban early... otherwise we'll probably have to wait many years to return to the ETO.  Too many years to wait for the most common Axis fighter of the war.

[Jade_Monkey]

I'm not outraged but i do find it a bit of a waste of time.

 

The only benefit is getting it done faster by reusing the models and just making tiny changes.

I guess the people who get the BOK standalone version need a 109 and the G4 is the historically accurate one.

[Kurfurst]

Well said, JM.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Best thing to do is implement the Mg131 + Mk108 as a modification for the G-4 turning it into an early G-6. Double work, but everybody will be pleased.

 

Both parties do have a point and while I can see the G4 as a more representative aircraft of the battle I'd highly wish for a possebility to include the G-6 as well.

[SOLIDKREATE]

Best thing to do is implement the Mg131 + Mk108 as a modification for the G-4 turning it into an early G-6. Double work, but everybody will be pleased.

 

Both parties do have a point and while I can see the G4 as a more representative aircraft of the battle I'd highly wish for a possebility to include the G-6 as well.

 

 

Was that ever a real 'field mod'? If so I like that idea. It would make shooting down LaGG's and IL-2's a ton easier.

I think it is very necessary that developers change the BF109G4 for G6, since they're selling us the same plane we already have BoS

 

other than that the G6 if he was in KUBAN, this 109 had major improvements

 

I want to do reflection and change, because they do not want to buy 3 times the same plane, I think anyone here wants neither

 

 

They most likely already had the G-4 made. A G-6 as a collector plane would be more appropriate I think. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

No, G-6's were factory assembled and could not be upgraded from previous types in the field unlike Bf-109 F-4s and E-7s.

Edited September 16, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Jocko]

I'm perfectly fine with the G6 being offered as a collector plane, but I would like to see this important variant get made before the move to the Pacific.  It appears that after Kuban the Dev's won't return to the ETO for years, but Independent map makers will surely create scenarios for it in the not too distant future.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Jocko

[SOLIDKREATE]

Geschwaderkommodore Hannes Trautloft, June 1943 - An converted G-4: THIS MUST BE AN UPGRADE in the Modifications list.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Also, keep in mind that purchasers of the Kuban module will not have ANY 109's If they have not purchased the earlier modules. I think we can all agree that those purchasers will absolutely require at least one model of the 109.

 

This is a very good point. And brings up an issue if the series is to continue to cover up all of WW2, it can't be avoided that some theaters will feature already made planes as the main participants. Maybe there could be a variable planeset for the users which already have some of those planes with a discount (for getting less planes) and then the ones without them would pay full price, this including previous collector planes (so they can enjoy the full accuracy of the theater with the planes which took part in it while being new to purchasing the sim).

 

A BoX with a P-40 for example, normal 50$ for everyone yet 30/40 $ for someone with the collector P-40 bought.

 

 

Geschwaderkommodore Hannes Trautloft, June 1943 - An converted G-4: THIS MUST BE AN UPGRADE in the Modifications list.

 

This could be a good workaround... you can select the better firepower and other G-6's features, in exchange of the performance decrease in comparison to the pure G-4 (if it gets 1.42 ata?).

 

 

In the MiG-3 doesn't the weapon modification change the upper front fuselage 3D model (different gun ports)?

[707shap_Srbin]

Geschwaderkommodore Hannes Trautloft, June 1943 - An converted G-4: THIS MUST BE AN UPGRADE in the Modifications list.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mate, dont trust too much those "Cool color profile painters".

 

While with Stab./JG54 during 1943, Trautloft flew only Fw190.

 

This Bf109G-6 was not built as Bf109G-4 and then "converted". WNF Werke Nummer batch of Bf109G's - 19 093 - 19 999 contained both G-4 (first part) and G-6 (second part). 

 

This Bf109G-6 W.Nr. 19 456 was originally built as G-6. It was flown by Hannes Trautloft while he was with Stab./General der Jagdflieger. That wgy it wears tripple chevron. In also had Green Heart as a personal emblem.

 

Later, it was used by another member of Galland's Staff: Gunther Lutzow.

[Sokol1]

G-4, G-6 will make the "underdog planes" in red side - e.g. p-39 more "underdog" in online environment. 

[Lusekofte]

Yes but that is exactly what they want, a 109 is not correct unless they rule the skies. It remind me of old IL 2 everybody in a P 51 , spit , 109 or a late model Jap . 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

G-4, G-6 will make the "underdog planes" in red side - e.g. p-39 more "underdog" in online environment. 

That's actually not true at all. Yes, the G-6 has better armarment (although many pilots preferred the MG151 in fighter vs fighter combat due to better muzzle velocity and ammunition supplies) than the G-4 but in terms of performence the early G-6 is among the worst 109s. Significantly more turn and climb time than the previous series made it quite unpopular early on.

 

Armarment wise it does not lack behind the P-39 in any way, quite the contary.

Edited September 17, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[BP_dFrog]

This is a very good point. And brings up an issue if the series is to continue to cover up all of WW2, it can't be avoided that some theaters will feature already made planes as the main participants. Maybe there could be a variable planeset for the users which already have some of those planes with a discount (for getting less planes) and then the ones without them would pay full price, this including previous collector planes (so they can enjoy the full accuracy of the theater with the planes which took part in it while being new to purchasing the sim).

 

A BoX with a P-40 for example, normal 50$ for everyone yet 30/40 $ for someone with the collector P-40 bought.

This is exactly the reason why I stopped buying anything until I get clear answer from devs how they want to solve this.

Edited September 18, 2016 by BP_dFrog

[Sokol1]

Armarment wise it does not lack behind the P-39 in any way, quite the contary.

 

The P-39 (heavy) armament only matters if the guy are able to get on six of Bf 109's. 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Sokol1

[SOLIDKREATE]

The P-39 (heavy) armament only matters if the guy are able to get on six of Bf 109's. 

 

 

Side deflections and dive shots work too but you have to shoot one at a time. Your nose will wobble all over and you will lose airspeed if you mash the trigger. P-39 is a great plane as long as you don't turn or bank hard.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I voted Bf109G-4 as it is historical to the time frame. Bf109G-6 is always marked as a crap plane. For example the FiAF ace Karhila said, in several occasions when had a chance to talk to him, the G-6 had slightly worse climb than G-2, but the upgraded 13mm guns made up for it in the added hitting power. So a trade off he was happy to make and still outfly the best russkies offered during 1944 over Karelian Isthmus. Go figure.

[ElPerk]

If you pick G-6, you sacrifice historical accuracy. In return, you get more variety in 109 pool, which is important for old but not new customers. For customers not owning BoS, G-4 is just another 109 and fills it's goal admirably. It only suffers when compared to G-2, and even then historical accuracy speaks for G-4.

G-6 and La-5F make for a good collector set and I am this close to betting actual money on them being released ~3-6 months after BoK comes out.

[Asgar]

Han made it official now, we get an un-historical G-4 with 1.42 ata in BoK apparently being un-historic is okay if the developers want it but not when the community wants it for the sake of gameplay

Edited September 23, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I missed that somewhere. Can you post a link?

 

EDIT: Found it in Questions for Developers

Edited September 23, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[III/JG2Gustav05]

as i wrote here and in other places on several occasions. the time frame is not the issue. they were there in the end of the BoK 

 

you say you like the idea of variants, but why the G-4? in game you won't even notice that it's a variant. it will be identical to the G-2 we already have. while the G-6 is actually something new

 

I am sorry that I do can notice the difference about the appearance. Do not be so obsessive with the implementation of G6, we do not have so many fighter variant for Luftwaffe as I said, develop team needs to persevere it for another theme like Battle of Kulsk.

Edited September 24, 2016 by III/JG2Gustav05

[Jocko]

I would just prefer to see the G6 before the move to the Pacific. The thing is that many of us here have little or no interest in the PTO, and what we get with Kuban is all we are going to get for the next 4 or 5 years.  It would just be nice to have a decent mid war planeset to keep us occupied for all those years.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

G-4.

 

I'd be happy to pay $10-$15 for a G-6 collectors plane.

[SOLIDKREATE]

I would just prefer to see the G6 before the move to the Pacific. The thing is that many of us here have little or no interest in the PTO, and what we get with Kuban is all we are going to get for the next 4 or 5 years.  It would just be nice to have a decent mid war planeset to keep us occupied for all those years.

 

Speak for yourself! 

[Jocko]

Yeah, I get it. Going to the Pacific probably makes the most business sense at this point in time.  I fall into the "little interest" category though.  I like all of WW2 aviation and I'll buy the Pacific modules to support the sim and even play them once in a while, but I just have a personal preference for the ETO.  Hopefully they'll find the time to round out the mid war ETO planeset before we all get transferred to the PTO.  Some collector planes like the G6, La5F, IAR80, and some float planes like the Ar196 would be nice.. I'd even be happy with some floats on the Ju52.

[Asgar]

G-4.

 

I'd be happy to pay $10-$15 for a G-6 collectors plane.

How about 5$ for people who own BOK and BOM because the already paid full price for a copy paste 109

I am sorry that I do can notice the difference about the appearance. Do not be so obsessive with the implementation of G6, we do not have so many fighter variant for Luftwaffe as I said, develop team needs to persevere it for another theme like Battle of Kulsk.

So you want us to play the next ten years (probably the time before we get back to the ETO) with one of the rarest 109 variant (750-800 build) instead of the most produced one (more than 8000 build)?

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

How about 5$ for people who own BOK and BOM because the already paid full price for a copy paste 109

 

So you want us to play the next ten years (probably the time before we get back to the ETO) with one of the rarest 109 variant (750-800 build) instead of the most produced one (more than 8000 build)?

 

 

I want a G6 as much as the next guy, but I think you are being a bit dramatic here. You will have "10" fun filled years to split between 5 variants of the 109.

Lets be honest though, I highly doubt its going to be 10 years before another 109 variant is brought to life in this sim.

[216th_Peterla]

Was not the early 109-G6 a real deception in performance? Notice that if we got the Early G6 the FM discussion of the FW will be nothing copared to the angry mob supporting the 109.

Anyways, why you want to destroy my lovely IL2 with those MG's and Cannon of that G6?

I guess both points are valid so I'm neutral this time.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I guess the people who get the BOK standalone version need a 109 and the G4 is the historically accurate one.

 

For this reason I'm for the Bf-109G-4. Also, Han has announced that the G-4 will have 1.42ata for difference's sake so there will be notable improvements in performance.

 

On top of that, like Peterla already put, the early Bf-109G-6 was comparatively a piece of junk. I remember in the old Il-2 I used to fly LW in the beginning, and I was happily chewing through the (fantastic by the way) original 'Fighter' campaign and everything was fun and games, until we hit Kursk and the unit transitioned to the Bf-109G-6. I couldn't make it past two missions, even after some 10 odd attempts. Simply put, I was breakfast for the La-5, P-39 and Yak-1b despite racking up some 200ish kills up to then. I dropped that campaign and never really flew LW dedicatedly again. It really, really is that bad.

 

And for the record, the Kuban air battles lasted until June. After that came a stalemate, and then an offensive by the end of the year, but such was the situation that the main air assets (9 GIAD included) were transferred to Donbass instead where the action was unfolding. It really was a matter of 'OK, nothing to do here right now, let's send the air forces where the fight is happening'. In real life nobody goes out hunting just for the sake of hunting, this isn't Wings of Liberty. Saying Kuban lasted continuously until September it's like stating that the Battle of Britain lasted into 1944 just because of one or other odd German incursion over British mainland.

[Asgar]

For this reason I'm for the Bf-109G-4. Also, Han has announced that the G-4 will have 1.42ata for difference's sake so there will be notable improvements in performance.

 

On top of that, like Peterla already put, the early Bf-109G-6 was comparatively a piece of junk. I remember in the old Il-2 I used to fly LW in the beginning, and I was happily chewing through the (fantastic by the way) original 'Fighter' campaign and everything was fun and games, until we hit Kursk and the unit transitioned to the Bf-109G-6. I couldn't make it past two missions, even after some 10 odd attempts. Simply put, I was breakfast for the La-5, P-39 and Yak-1b despite racking up some 200ish kills up to then. I dropped that campaign and never really flew LW dedicatedly again. It really, really is that bad.

 

And for the record, the Kuban air battles lasted until June. After that came a stalemate, and then an offensive by the end of the year, but such was the situation that the main air assets (9 GIAD included) were transferred to Donbass instead where the action was unfolding. It really was a matter of 'OK, nothing to do here right now, let's send the air forces where the fight is happening'. In real life nobody goes out hunting just for the sake of hunting, this isn't Wings of Liberty. Saying Kuban lasted continuously until September it's like stating that the Battle of Britain lasted into 1944 just because of one or other odd German incursion over British mainland.

The G-4 with 1.42 makes the whole G-6 is in-historical argument completely worthless, the G-4 with 1.42 is an even worst offender.

 

And the G-6 was never about moar performance I mentioned that about 6 trillion times. It's about using expensive time and resources for a plane that will add something new instead off a carbon copy of an existing plane

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Not if it comes as a loadout option. And in terms of resources, the G-6 needs a whole new 3D model, and the flight model revisions needed are more drastic, leading to a longer development cycle.

 

The G-4 is to the G-2 what the Yak-1b is to the Yak-1 - same airframe, some aerodynamic improvements, same guns and so on. The Yak-1b gets a bubble top but it ends there. We're also not getting any new La-5s or the I-153, but that won't break the game. A bigger gun and extra weight on the G-6 won't make much of a difference in the end.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Well seems all the people in here claiming that Kuban "ended June" were talking rubbish. In the newest announcement Han clearly told, timeframe will last till October 43. Even more reason the G6 should be included instead of the G4. But at least the 1.42ata we will get for the G4 is historical correct this way.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Well seems all the people in here claiming that Kuban "ended June" were talking rubbish. In the newest announcement Han clearly told, timeframe will last till October 43. Even more reason the G6 should be included instead of the G4. But at least the 1.42ata we will get for the G4 is historical correct this way.

Fair enough I guess, but I still wonder which one was more numerous in October, G4 or G6...

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Fair enough I guess, but I still wonder which one was more numerous in October, G4 or G6...

I guess pretty much 50:50, at least. Got some pilot memoires from autumn 43 on eastern front, they were solely talking about G6 by then. Even Kursk which was in July, G6 was already used in larger scheme.

[Dakpilot]

Well seems all the people in here claiming that Kuban "ended June" were talking rubbish. In the newest announcement Han clearly told, timeframe will last till October 43. Even more reason the G6 should be included instead of the G4. But at least the 1.42ata we will get for the G4 is historical correct this way.

 

People were not "claiming" , simply basing their info on what was announced by Devs at that time, much new info/changes will also come as things develop 

 

That the time frame has now been decided to be expanded and offer Autumn map does not mean they or anyone was talking 'rubbish'..

 

If you bought the Standalone BoK which had G6 not G4 you would have to fly it from April in career..or not have access to a 109...not very historic....as an Axis Pilot

 

Dev's have also said again they hope to make additional aircraft like Yak 1b so maybe G6 is now more likely

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Dutchvdm]

I guess pretty much 50:50, at least. Got some pilot memoires from autumn 43 on eastern front, they were solely talking about G6 by then. Even Kursk which was in July, G6 was already used in larger scheme.

 According to ww2.dk. I./JG52 recieved 36 G6 in June. For II they came a month later and with fewer numbers. It's mostly the same for III. For JG3 it's simple. Id did not receive G6 models during the time they where around Kuban.

 

Grt M

[Asgar]

I honestly think the people who only bought BoK argument is invalid. how many are that? 5% of all players? how many people bought BoM without owning BoS almost no one as far as I've seen on the forums. the Devs should focus on the people who bought every installment of the game and showed that they support the game over years no matter what. because those are the people that made BoK possible in the first place and they are the people that will make the Pacific possible for all the "I won't buy the game if I can't fly British plane ABC or American plane xyz" people

Edited October 7, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[II./JG77_Manu*]

If you bought the Standalone BoK which had G6 not G4 you would have to fly it from April in career..or not have access to a 109...not very historic....as an Axis Pilot

This isn't really a valid argument. BoS campaign also starts in spring, and there was no Yak1 with PF engine, nor any La5, nor any Lagg3-pf in April 42. Not a single BoS fighter from the Russians was there irl. I guess 98% of the people who will own BoK, also have BoS. So no problem for them using a G2 instead. From the 2% the people who like to fly the career (by far not all people) can very well fly 190-A5 for the first 2 month of the campaign, before the G6 arrived. Or ground attacker or something else. That's really not an excuse for copying an aircraft into another pricy theatre. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*