My final pitch because I'm not going to wait a whole decade for the opportunity to arise

[Y-29.Silky]

IL-2 Sturmovik   // Luftwaffe vs VVS
 
IL-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles   // Luftwaffe vs VVS
 
IL-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles Ace Expansion  // FAF/Luftwaffe vs VVS
 
IL-2 Sturmovik: Pacific Fighters  // USN/RN vs IJN/AAF
 
IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946   // All previous 
 
IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover   // Luftwaffe vs RAF 

IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad   // Luftwaffe vs VVS 
 
IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Moscow   // Luftwaffe vs VVS 
 
- - - - - - - - - - - 
 
IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Kuban   // Luftwaffe vs VVS
 
IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Midway   // USN vs IJN 
 
IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Okinawa   // USN vs IJN
 
 
Luftwaffe: 6 (+1)
VVS: 5 (+1)
IJN/IJAAF: 1 (+2)
USN: 1 (+2) 
RAF: 1
USAAF: 0
 
As quoted by Jason: 
Battle of Kuban
Battle of Midway
Battle of Okinawa
Battle of ??????
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
IL-2 Strumovik: Gustav Line 
 
1943 Salerno, Cassino, Anzio

• Bf-109F's - Check 
• BF-109G's - Check
• BF-110's - Check
• Ju-88's - Check 
• He-111's - Check 
• Fw-190's - Check 
• Ju-87's - Check 
• Mc202's - Check 
• P-40's - Check 
• Spitfires - In Progress
• P-39's - In Progress 
• A-20's - In Progress 
• B-17/26's - Battle of Midway (Jk that won't happen)

 

All we would need... 

 

• P-38 - Oddly enough the top 2 US aces flew 38's in the Pacific.
• P-51/A-36
• P-47
• B-26
• + Possible later variants of aircraft already/will be in the game.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

After staying on the Eastern Front for 4 years straight, we're going back to the Pacific while never covering the Western Front aside from BoB, and have over half the needed aircraft already developed or is in-progress for an Italian theater. 

 

 

Is my sense making too much, or what does IL-2 have against the USAAF?

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I get what you're saying.

 

Nonetheless, I believe in this sim. I want it to work out no matter what the cost. Anything less will be the real beginning of the "flight sim dark ages" that many people are already claiming we're in.

 

Spread the love or we'll never have that USAAF VS LW sim that we've all been waiting for.

 

Seriously. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Space_Ghost

[PA-Sniv]

I don't agree with your AEP/PF point of view... but I like your conclusion!

[Sokol1]

 

... or what does IL-2 have against the USAAF?

 

 

Maybe NG in between... 

[Fern]

Your ideas are just ridiculous. Quit dreaming Silky. WWIII might break out before this happens and we will all be dead.

[Rjel]

Tell your friends and neighbors. Sell enough extra copies of this series and Jason will have to hire more staff to keep up with the growing fan base. With enough people on the development team, he could knock out most of the major Pacific battles, including China and the Aleutian Islands by the end of 2018. No where else to go then but back to Europe and the Med after that. If only we could each sell 5 more copies of Bo_ a piece.

[Sokol1]

 

WWIII might break out before this happens and we will all be dead.

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Sokol1

[Cybermat47]

IL-2 Sturmovik: Pacific Fighters  // USN/RN vs IJN/AAF

 Uh... don't you mean USN/USAAF/RN/RAAF vs IJN/IJA?

 

 

 

1943 Salerno, Cassino, Anzio[/size]

 

• Bf-109F's - Check 
• BF-109G's - Check
• BF-110's - Check
• Ju-88's - Check 
• He-111's - Check 
• Fw-190's - Check 
• Ju-87's - Check 
• Mc202's - Check 
• P-40's - Check 
• Spitfires - In Progress
• P-39's - In Progress 
• A-20's - In Progress 
• B-17/26's - Battle of Midway (Jk that won't happen)

 

All we would need... 

 

• P-38 - Oddly enough the top 2 US aces flew 38's in the Pacific.
• P-51/A-36
• P-47
• B-26
• + Possible later variants of aircraft already/will be in the game.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Wait, what?

 

That would mean either two things:

 

1) New players buy Battle of Anzio and only get a bunch of USAAF aircraft, and are told "sorry, if you want to play as the British or Germans, you have to buy our previous games for the exact same amount of money."

 

2) Old players are told, "by the way, you have to pay us again for what you've already bought."

[69th_chuter]

?

 

I thought Ace Expansion and Pacific Fighters came with a bunch of Army aircraft ...

[Original_Uwe]

I get what you're saying.

 

Nonetheless, I believe in this sim. I want it to work out no matter what the cost. Anything less will be the real beginning of the "flight sim dark ages" that many people are already claiming we're in.

 

Spread the love or we'll never have that USAAF VS LW sim that we've all been waiting for.

 

Seriously.

Hold on a second.

So you're saying we should pony up north of $300 usd each so that we might get an interesting theatre?

That's garbage and you damn well know it.

 

The obvious choice was the med, but instead were being shanghaied to the god awful pacific? [Edited]  that!

No they had a chance at my money and they threw it away with dreams of carrier aircraft and [Edited] gasoline kites.

They have earned their demise.

 

We do not use racial slurs here on these boards.. you need to either control yourself or do not post here. There is  a sim site in cyberspace where this kind of rhetoric is ok.. but this is not that place. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Bearcat

[JG13_opcode]

[Edited]

FYSA, the term [Edited] is considered a racial slur in North America.

 

He knows that.. he is in Fresno.. he just does not care.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Bearcat

[Cybermat47]

Hold on a second.

So you're saying we should pony up north of $300 usd each so that we might get an interesting theatre?

That's garbage and you damn well know it.

The obvious choice was the med, but instead were being shanghaied to the god awful pacific? [Edited] that!

No they had a chance at my money and they threw it away with dreams of carrier aircraft and [Edited] gasoline kites.

They have earned their demise.

The fact that you're so angry about the setting of a video game is just sad.

 

Well, it would be sad if it wasn't so hilarious

Edited September 9, 2016 by Bearcat

[Fern]

FYSA, the term  [Edited] is considered a racial slur in North America.

 

So is Illegal Immigrant.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Bearcat

[[CPT]milopugdog]

Hold on a second.

So you're saying we should pony up north of $300 usd each so that we might get an interesting theatre?

That's garbage and you damn well know it.

 

The obvious choice was the med, but instead were being shanghaied to the god awful pacific? [Edited] that!

No they had a chance at my money and they threw it away with dreams of carrier aircraft and [Edited] gasoline kites.

They have earned their demise.

T h i s i s a v i d e o g a m e

Edited September 9, 2016 by Bearcat

[Original_Uwe]

No the hilarity comes from the idea that "if you pay $xxx dollars for a bunch of stuff you don't want then we might get to something good!"
What you see as anger is truly incredulity.

So is Illegal Immigrant.

[Edited] is.
Illegal immigrant is just accurate.
Well not quite. Criminal invader would be better.
Sorrynotsorry. [Edited]

So you do know exactly what you are doing .. as I thought. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by SYN_Haashashin

[Cybermat47]

No the hilarity comes from the idea that "if you pay $xxx dollars for a bunch of stuff you don't want then we might get to something good!"

What you see as anger is truly incredulity.

 

You're incredulous that you aren't getting everything you want, and that a company has to make a profit to continue producing content?

 

Sorry kid, but that's just how the world works.

[Original_Uwe]

You're incredulous that you aren't getting everything you want, and that a company has to make a profit to continue producing content?

Sorry kid, but that's just how the world works.

No far from it.

I find it inconceivable that some would agree and say yes, these directional choices are regrettable, but buy the next 4 expansions at $90 a piece and hope that we get something interesting eventually.

That's just, well hell I don't even know. A type of Stockholm syndrome?

 

As to Jason and the game direction, well I had faith in the former and the latter is just stupid.

Hell I was ready to buy the new Russia expansion and just never play it in hope that it would fund a great theatre in the future. With the pacific announcement though no thank you.

Edited September 9, 2016 by 5./JG26_Dots

[Y29.Layin_Scunion]

No far from it.

I find it inconceivable that some would agree and say yes, these directional choices are regrettable, but buy the next 4 expansions at $90 a piece and hope that we get something interesting eventually.

That's just, well hell I don't even know. A type of Stockholm syndrome?

As to Jason and the game direction, well I had faith in the former and the latter is just stupid.

Hell I was ready to buy the new Russia expansion and just never play it in hope that it would fund a great theatre in the future. With the pacific announcement though no thank you.

Some people just enjoy flying, regardless of what aircraft and what is on the ground. If you find that "inconceivable" then I would recommend a little self reflection.

[Haza]

No far from it.

I find it inconceivable that some would agree and say yes, these directional choices are regrettable, but buy the next 4 expansions at $90 a piece and hope that we get something interesting eventually.

That's just, well hell I don't even know. A type of Stockholm syndrome?

 

As to Jason and the game direction, well I had faith in the former and the latter is just stupid.

Hell I was ready to buy the new Russia expansion and just never play it in hope that it would fund a great theatre in the future. With the pacific announcement though no thank you.

 

5./JG52_Dots,

 

As you appear to be somebody living in the land of the Free, I believe that you are entitled to your say/views as probably like you, I had relatives that fought in both World Wars (mine fought in the 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 Wars on the Allied side) that in theory gave us the ability of free speech.  I'm sure no matter which way the game went there were going to be those that would either like or not like it and even perhaps those who didn't really care as they would just enjoy whatever.  However, I respect your views and understand your frustration in not getting what you thought was best for you and the wider community.

 

I really believe that so far, the Developers have demonstrated that they can produce the goods, but they must strive to continually keep everybody interested in the game and so although I'm certainly not a Stockholm syndrome type (although I've noticed in films it is always very sexy ladies), at this stage I'm content to pre-order BOK and see how it goes from there, as I for one would have liked to have seen big European theater Bomber raids 1943-1945 (night and day), however, I'm not that disappointed as BOK is another aspect to engage with and to try something different, as these battle(s) did happen. There are those out there saying that the planes are just a different version and nothing new, however I would like to think that all of the aircraft in BOK will be different from what I'm currently playing.

 

I'm sure that like most plans, Jason and the team can change their plan(s) and its direction if there are any changes to reflect what the market wants,  as although I'm not a business type person, it ultimately comes down to supply and demand. I guess if you require the financial support of backers, you have to do your home work and demonstrate that there is a community who is willing to buy the product and I do not believe that there is an expectation of selling us crap and that we will just keep buying!

 

I for one hope that as the official release of BOK gets nearer, you might be tempted to purchase it and at least give it a go.  Although I don't know you from "Adam", indirectly we are all supporting each other when we contribute to the forum either in writing or financially.  Having one less player in the sky, makes for a boring sim/game, so please do not give up on us just yet mate!  I do believe that Jason is trying to do the best for the community and that if he could, he would do everything, but I guess that will just take time.

 

 

Regards

 

Phil (Haza)

Edited September 9, 2016 by Haza

[Ace_Pilto]

Battle of Normandy or I'm defecting to VI$A Thunder.

[Gump]

ive read plenty posts where players are saying they want the pacific theater, and Jason mentioned listening to the users/customers. maybe these threads/posts helped determine the direction? don't know. don't know what other things were considered, but I think no one is hoping that its the right direction more than the dev team, cuz their livelihood that depends on it. if they would have went to the MTO or west, the pacific theater guys would have been pouting. the team had to head in some direction, for sure, which takes a commitment (scary thing sometimes). thing is, the direction is also including other enhancements (not just another theater), so some of the effort will be absorbed in that, at least for a time. it would make sense to add an incremental theater while these other enhancements are requiring work.

.

personally, I kind of feel the pain that silky is expressing. im not a PTO enthusiast. not necessarily an Eastern front lover either. the thing that keeps 'me' playing is the quality of the sim and my desire for WW2 air combat (just wish my skills matched my desire).

.

i don't know what the tradeoff, in the short and long, is going to be by adding PTO planesets 1st instead of the usaaf planes/theaters, as im sure that they will lose some business without that mustang, thunderbolt, lightening (pto?), and iconic bombers, in the "big week" scenario. i don't know if they have a good idea or what either, since the other direction would lose some PTO lovers' business? but they have chosen and who knows if ideas will change. marriage is a decision and commitment, too, but look at how many folks have a change of mind later.

.

meanwhile, there ARE other groups of game developers out there that have opportunity at those western/southern fronts, if they care to try. 1cgs cant be the only game devs that are able to create such. but, if nothing else comes along, well....

.

but 'change' is a constant. things change. interests change, life situations change, technology changes, finances change, age changes, health changes, etc. "who knows, baby, where i'll be in a year?" (Steven Tyler).

.

edit: incidentally, ROF has some sea maps, including ships and subs. they are not very popular maps compared to the other ones. not sure why. ive asked several times in various ways and have gotten various answers.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Gump

[Neil]

Jason had the honesty to tells us what is the plan on the long term.

I admire that because nothing force him to do that

As Gump said, they had surely think a lot about this decision as they do that for a living.

 

Personally, I would have preferred a MTO, but what I want the most is that sim to be profitable for the dev team so they can continue on it during several years.

 

Just my opinion.

[Asgar]

Battle of Normandy or I'm defecting to VI$A Thunder.

ok. bye, if you really think that's an actual alternative to IL-2 you're a lost cause anyway 

Edited September 9, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[Fliegel]

 

 

Sorrynotsorry. Auslander raus.

 

Uh... OK. I hope you are an Indian. Otherwise go back to your Queen and beg for pardon.

 

 

 

Battle of Normandy or I'm defecting to VI$A Thunder.

 

 

Good luck. WT is moving away from realism even further because "being shot isnt fun" :-D

[beepee]

 

My final pitch because I'm not going to wait a whole decade for the opportunity to arise

 

    :lol:                                

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I think what Jimmy meant was a joke and you take it too seriously. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Posted in another thread but worth repeating here:

 

I suspect we will eventually get a TACTICAL Western Front. That was no small undertaking either (medium bombers, attack aircraft, fighters, recon, etc) but the AI scripting for a sky full of B17's and/or B24's would grind this game to a complete halt, not to mention the number of ground objects and thier requisite AI scripting will be only slightly smaller than some of the coming huge Eastern front armored encounters. The complexity of aircraft systems and AI scripting is light years more complicated than what has come before this in '46.

 

I'm a Dora and Pony driver at heart but I see the overall arc of the sim as it stands is moving West. With that said, I also suspect we may also go East at least one more time (Kursk) and probably twice (Berlin). My money is on heading to Kursk before getting to a proper Western theater. It actually makes more sense to go Kursk, Med, then the continent but we'll see. Jason stated the mid-term goals. I wouldn't plan on seeing a fleshed out long term goal posted for another couple of years.

[Gambit21]

Until we can get a decent bomber box/amount of B17's in the air, (this means accounting for the flight models and all those gunners) along with all the fighter escorts, along with ground convoys, trains etc

Europe is not going to happen. We're a long ways away from that right now....Looooooong ways.

 

In the old IL2 to could get 12 or so B17's along with all the players - that's TINY compared to a real live bomber box.

I'll bet I couldn't get 3 flyinig and operating correctly right now if they existed along with 16 players, nevermind ground units without

frame rates coming to a halt. It's a different, more sophisticated engine and still needs changes, optimizing.

 

Nevermind map size issues.

 

It's pointless to complain about it not getting Europe frankly.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Gambit21

[Trooper117]

A European theatre does not just involve Normandy, P-51's and B-17's...

 

From 1941 onwards there was a terrific battle going on across that channel between the RAF and the Luftwaffe well before the invasion.

 

Circus, Mandolin, Ramrod, Ranger, Rhubarb, Roadstead, Rover, and Rodeos, were all specific mission types directed at taking the war to the enemy.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Jason's answer from another thread:

 

" As I've tried to explain a true Western Front sim is difficult to do, due to the nature of the air war there. You're basically left with either Battle of Britain, Normandy or Battle of the Bulge. Only BOB is strategic in nature, the other maps are tactical. But we all know the Air War in the west was largely famous for strategic bomber raids over long distances. Not something I can tackle. I can barely tackle the Kuban at the moment. It's just going to be a long process with current realities."

 

Jason

[Trooper117]

I understand what Jason has said, it's not a problem... I'm just trying to point out that a western front map isn't all about mass bomber formations and why it can't be done.

A western front map could be done... you just have to forget all this mass B-17 stuff

[mb339pan]

IL-2 Strumovik: Gustav Line 

 

1943 Salerno, Cassino, Anzio

• Bf-109F's - Check 
• BF-109G's - Check
• BF-110's - Check
• Ju-88's - Check 
• He-111's - Check 
• Fw-190's - Check 
• Ju-87's - Check 
• Mc202's - Check 
• P-40's - Check 
• Spitfires - In Progress
• P-39's - In Progress 
• A-20's - In Progress 
• B-17/26's - Battle of Midway (Jk that won't happen)

 

All we would need... 

 

• P-38 - Oddly enough the top 2 US aces flew 38's in the Pacific.
• P-51/A-36
• P-47
• B-26
• + Possible later variants of aircraft already/will be in the game.

 

i like it +1

[No601_Swallow]

 

Sorrynotsorry. [edited]

 

 

You do know that there are German speakers on this forum, right? Posting openly poltically partisan rants, even in a language that is not English (how clever of you!), is probably against forum rules, quite apart from leaving a nasty smell on the forum.

Edited September 9, 2016 by SYN_Haashashin

[LLv24_Zami]

This thread is hilarious!

 

Grown men acting like a children because they are not getting exactly what they want.

 

Please, continue :D

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Hold on a second.

So you're saying we should pony up north of $300 usd each so that we might get an interesting theatre?

That's garbage and you damn well know it.

 

The obvious choice was the med, but instead were being shanghaied to the god awful pacific? [Edited]  that!

No they had a chance at my money and they threw it away with dreams of carrier aircraft and [Edited] gasoline kites.

They have earned their demise.

 

We do not use racial slurs here on these boards.. you need to either control yourself or do not post here. There is  a sim site in cyberspace where this kind of rhetoric is ok.. but this is not that place. 

 

How about this. Don't like it? Then don't buy it. 

 

So tired of "hur dur why are we not getting a western front" when the devs have said numerous time that they do not have the ability to do that at this time. 

 

Normandy is coming to DCS with P-51 and all your favorite planes from the western front.

 

And if you have not noticed at this point, the majority here do not want a western front.

 

(sorry mods)

Edited September 10, 2016 by 6./ZG26_McKvack

[TWC_Ace]

 

I hear ya but you need to be aware of few things:

 

1) Kuban is easier to make for them..same theatre...FW190 and B109 already present in the game...they need to make their later variants which is also job to be done but its a bit easier with existing models. Also the team has more info and knowledge of eastern front.

2) they have a very very large russian base of players who arent super excoted about P47s etc...

3) its logical they wont to make a "closure" with eastern front

Edited September 9, 2016 by blackram

[Gambit21]

A European theatre does not just involve Normandy, P-51's and B-17's...

 

From 1941 onwards there was a terrific battle going on across that channel between the RAF and the Luftwaffe well before the invasion.

 

Circus, Mandolin, Ramrod, Ranger, Rhubarb, Roadstead, Rover, and Rodeos, were all specific mission types directed at taking the war to the enemy.

 

Yes, but that's not what most are referring to when speaking of this front.

His user name and aircraft list (not putting it down, big fan of Mustangs and the Legend of Y29) are clue enough in that regard.

 

You're right though, a channel map would be fun without that stuff.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I understand what Jason has said, it's not a problem... I'm just trying to point out that a western front map isn't all about mass bomber formations and why it can't be done.

A western front map could be done... you just have to forget all this mass B-17 stuff

I posted it because it is rather making your point old chap.

[unreasonable]

Posted in another thread but worth repeating here:

 

I suspect we will eventually get a TACTICAL Western Front. That was no small undertaking either (medium bombers, attack aircraft, fighters, recon, etc) but the AI scripting for a sky full of B17's and/or B24's would grind this game to a complete halt, not to mention the number of ground objects and thier requisite AI scripting will be only slightly smaller than some of the coming huge Eastern front armored encounters. The complexity of aircraft systems and AI scripting is light years more complicated than what has come before this in '46.

 

 

Given the problem of multi unit scripting I wonder how the devs will deal with a naval task force of CV, BB and several DD - collectively carrying 200+ AAA weapons. The lazer accuracy issue will have to be dealt with for starters, but that aside if coding a multi-engine bomber is supposed to be tricky because of the number of crew stations, how will a ship be handled? 

 

Interesting problem. I hope the old solution of having only a few guns but making them unrealistically accurate is not chosen: it makes everything look wrong cinematically.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I suspect the guns will be linked together as AAA batteries (fore/aft/port/starboard), main guns forward, main guns aft, secondary guns port, secondary guns starboard. For a battleship that is about equal to the number of a single heavy bomber/crewed weapons AI. A mid-sized flotilla will generally be smaller than a bomber stream as well. As you get to the smaller ships and even CV's the number of batteries reduces proportionately. The captain/helmsman only has to be AI scripted for 2d movement as well. I'm sure there are coding tricks to make it visually pleasant while reducing computing load that I can't begin to understand as an end user.

 

Still seems simpler than an air armada overall.

Edited September 10, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf