Gunnery.

[JG13_opcode]

I suck at it.

I know the theory behind how to lead, line up their velocity vector with the reticle etc., but I usually miss. Gunnery is easily the worst part of my game; I waste so many good bounces because I don't actually hit the guy, or I don't damage him critically.

How does a person get good at air to air gunnery?

 

Those of you who are good:  did you practice?  do you still?

Edited September 7, 2016 by JG13_opcode

[Riderocket]

One way to make it easier, is watch your target and not your reticle.

 

Also, tune down the sensitivity of Pitch and Yaw in settings (the swiggly line next to the Pitch and Yaw input).

This will make your attacks less bouncy

[JG13_opcode]

Also, tune down the sensitivity of Pitch and Yaw in settings (the swiggly line next to the Pitch and Yaw input).

This will make your attacks less bouncy

I have it on my pedals but not the elevators or ailerons.

 

Don't you find that makes you less precise further out on the extremes of the axis? How much sensitivity do you put on the axes?

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

It can be difficult, but with practice it will improve, the difficulty is always in a turning fight, if you are allowing a lead on the target by pulling back on the stick you will find more often than not the bullet stream will just curve in front of the target,

 

so just slightly ease back on your stick and flatten your flight path and let the target fly through the stream, best of luck 

[E69_geramos109]

Hi. 0 sensivility on the rudder, about 50% on elevator and about 20% aileron.

Tricks about how to close tour target.

I will put a video about this on my you tube channel so you can watch it

[JG13_opcode]

Hi. 0 sensivility on the rudder, about 50% on elevator and about 20% aileron.

Tricks about how to close tour target.

I will put a video about this on my you tube channel so you can watch it

Thanks!

[FTC_Etherlight]

Mh...There is really no trick to it and no real rule of thumb when it comes to gunnery overall. Compared to other games, I would say: Lead less than you would think you should have to. I feel that I need to lead way more in Cliffs of Dover for example. Other than that I think practice, talent and visual thinking are mostly the key. I for example have not played Flightsims for a very long time, compared to most people in the community, but gunnery was easily my biggest asset in the early days. I could always shoot way better than I could fly and learned deflection shooting exceedingly quickly. Just had a knack for it I guess, at least compared to friends who started out at the same time.

 

The one thing you could do to get a better feeling for the trajectory of bullets is flying quick missions against the AI, whilst giving yourself some rules: 1) Only 1 sec bursts to get a feeling for the different timings of shooting at different angles, speeds etc. 2) Willingly choose weird angles to attack, since more often than not real pilots won't give you nice dead 6 shots either.

I play Quick Missions every day before I fly out, just to warm up. Not many, just 1 or 2 to get the trigger finger in the zone.

[Riderocket]

I have it on my pedals but not the elevators or ailerons.

 

Don't you find that makes you less precise further out on the extremes of the axis? How much sensitivity do you put on the axes?

I put 100% on my rudder and elevator (0% on roll) lol Edited September 7, 2016 by Riderocket

[JG13_opcode]

Mh...There is really no trick to it and no real rule of thumb when it comes to gunnery overall. Compared to other games, I would say: Lead less than you would think you should have to. I feel that I need to lead way more in Cliffs of Dover for example.

Funny you should say that, because I found that in CLOD I had to lead more than in il2fb/1946!

 

The one thing you could do to get a better feeling for the trajectory of bullets is flying quick missions against the AI, whilst giving yourself some rules: 1) Only 1 sec bursts to get a feeling for the different timings of shooting at different angles, speeds etc. 2) Willingly choose weird angles to attack, since more often than not real pilots won't give you nice dead 6 shots either.

I play Quick Missions every day before I fly out, just to warm up. Not many, just 1 or 2 to get the trigger finger in the zone.

Not a bad idea. I always hated flying against the AI but maybe I could just practice at high angles on friendly bombers that aren't maneuvering...

[FTC_Etherlight]

I also think that the online situation has some technical issues that one of the TWB guys has documented. I get much better hits offline, but that could just be the AI gifting me kills, but sometimes I've fired huge bursts at level flying targets (online) that seem to just be blanks!

 

When I last talked to dillon, it's apparently 2 problems: 1: If you're based in America and play on Wings of Liberty your bad ping will make it necessary to lead more than you should. At least dillon has had good experience with leading "too much" basically. The second problem is, that some routes from America to the WoL server apparently lead to a lot of packetloss, dillon apparently has at least 30% consistent packetloss, which will naturally screw with the hit detection.

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

duel n dogfight server, its a good server to practice with your guns.

[JG13_opcode]

don't apply rudder when shooting, unless you're a natural at compensating for it

Surely you need to keep the ball centred with the rudder.

[ACG_pezman]

Surely you need to keep the ball centred with the rudder.

Yes, coordinated turns are important for effective combat flying, however patience is too. Sometimes you just shouldn't shoot and wait for a better shot, maybe a moment when rudder isn't needed, usually if your target is in a low energy situation.

 

Other things to consider are this:

 

Know your gunsight (which it sounds like you do) and set your convergence for a set distance. This distance should be around the area that you usually open fire at to maximize the chance of a convergence kill (massive damage). In addition to that it will also help you aim in those "perfect bounce" situations where you get to sneak up on someone. If your set to 250m convergence, you know that from dead six, when your target's wings touch the Mil marks that correspond to 250m away, that you rounds will impact directly on the crosshair.

 

Don't shoot from too close on dead six, if you can get that close you got good energy, there are better ways to use it. Besides, for me the hardest shot to make is from dead six, level flight, it seems.

 

There are tons of good advice on this thread, most of which the majority of us have all tried at one time or another. Truth is it takes all those methods and more to really find your convergence and get to feel the projectile velocity.

 

Also take deep breaths and exhale slowly. Adrenaline gets pumping and your hands get jumpy. Need to be solid to make hits.

 

Shoot deliberately! Your target is always moving so choose a space of sky you think he's going to and fill it with a burst of ammo. This will yield more kills than anything. Shoot before you think you should and hold until after you would. This will increase hits too.

 

However the best gunnery tip I ever learned was to put my opponent in a bad, slow, position and it makes it WAY easier to hit. Leading is less, travel time to target seems less, and you can always get back into a prime firing position. But that falls under patience.

 

In short, practice and critical thinking man. Greedy pilots die, patient ones fly.

Edited September 7, 2016 by 19.GIAP//p3zman

[JG13_opcode]

maybe a moment when rudder isn't needed,

My thing was that rudder is almost always needed, even in level flight, unless you happen to be at trim point (~400 IAS in the Messer).

 

But on the topic of convergence, where do people set theirs for the 190 and 109? I'm set for 100m which works well when I can get in close, but often I find myself shooting further out. Never really thought about it until I flew with Rambo one time, and he mentioned that his convergence is like 400m.

[ACG_pezman]

200m, when a yak fills half your sight it is 200m away.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/19684-german-and-soviet-aircraft-gunsights/?p=320196

 

Also I 'feel' you have to account for more drop on German cannon fire compared to VVS; but if you're in close, <200m, it is negligible.

 

Haha, 'feels'.  Oh how we start some stupid arguments on this forum.  Lord knows I'm not innocent either.

 

Having said that, my feeling on the German cannons is that as soon as the projectile leaves the barrel, they fall.  It's awful, like I'm throwing boulders or something.  Even if I do manage hits, it never feels like a boulder hitting.  Usually a puff of smoke from a HE round, or maybe some fuel leaks.  However I also find the MG's on the 109 and 190 to be very good though.  Very high velocity, higher than VVS MG it seems, and those can tear up an engine quickly.  I just wish you could still fire the MG and Cannons separately in the 190.

 

Consider this about convergence:

 

It's not as necessary for center line weapons (nose mounted weapons) as it is for wing cannons and such.  It does affect the vertical angle that the center line weapons fire.  Hell, all weapons have their vertical convergence changed when you do convergence changes.  Firing at 1km?  Those cannons and MG will arch much higher to ensure they "fall" through the cross-hair at 1km.  Firing at 100m?  Those MG's and Cannon are basically level... ever sneak up on someone's six, put the cross-hair right on him, fire, and see your rounds go over your opponent?  That's the vertical convergence, so you need to be aware of where you need to aim on your cross-hair at what ranges.  In a La-5, when I'm close, I use the second or third Mil mark on the bottom vertical post as my cross-hair. 

 

 

I run about 130m for all center line weapons aircraft, about 300-350m for wing mounted weapons.  Odd is the P-40 and La-5, 450m and 270m respectively.

[Aap]

I don't understand the ball to be honest, I've just always figured it represents efficient energy or something. But with regards to gunnery I think it was the spitfire book that explained if you apply rudder you are skidding, your nose appears to be pointing where you're going but it is not actually your line of travel

 

If the ball is not in the middle, you are skidding or slipping. The point is not to use rudder to correct your aim and move the ball out of the middle at the same time, but to use rudder to keep the ball in the middle. Also when talking about Spitfire, that has rudder trim, you would not need to use rudder pedals during level flight, but for Bf109 you almost always would need some rudder to fly straight, unless you are flying at the speed that your rudder has been pre-trimmed for. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by II./JG77_Kemp

[Aap]

 

 

Don't shoot from too close on dead six.

 

Why not to shoot when you are too close? Actually that reminds me of a quote from Hartmann (if I remember correctly): "If you feel you are too close, get closer!"

[unreasonable]

Why not to shoot when you are too close? Actually that reminds me of a quote from Hartmann (if I remember correctly): "If you feel you are too close, get closer!"

 

With centre line guns this is fine,  but if your guns are wing mounted, getting much closer than your convergence range could make your shots miss on each side of the target, especially if you prefer a fairly long range setting. You might have to adjust so that the guns on one wing are hitting, while the other wing's are widely off, rather than both being a bit off. 

[VBF-12_Snake9]

I may be misreading somethings but are people saying that you shouldn't use rudder to aim. This doesn't make any sense.

I'm sure we have all lost our rudder to damage during a fight and continued to engage. You can't hit $hit without using your rudder. It comes so second nature that you don't realize you use it so much until it's gone. Sliding the nose left right to get that snap shot, pinpointing the wingroot, or coming to the top of the climb and getting that last kick right to snipe a prophanger. These are all done by the rudder. The rudder is your most important aiming tool.

Best way to aim is to neutralize your sick by elevator trim, roll trim, then rudder trim in that order. You want to fight the enemy not fight your stick. Once you have a neutral stick then you can use your rudder to direct your aim.

Stick curves are like azzholes, everyone has one. Find what works for you and the stick you have and pedals. I use 50 pitch, 30 roll, 60 yaw. I like a nice smooth rudder in the middle for pinpoint aiming. It can hurt your quick snap shots though.

One thing about getting close on someones 6. In this game you have to worry about propwash. My opinion is from direct six open up at about 300 to 200 meters. Any closer and the propwash will push your nose all over the place. You'll be spraying and praying.

Most important. Practice.