Ju52 mini-campaign...need input

[Gambit21]

I used to love building missions and campaigns for than anything else in the old sim, but have avoided it in our new version for several reasons.

Not the least of which is not wanting to invest the time in learning the new mission editor.

 

Well I've decided to buck up, put my head down and learn this thing...and surprisingly it's not as bad as I thought.

Already up and running more or less after a week and a half. Other things I'll figure out as I move along.

As much as I was able to do with the old editor, I can do so much more with this one. All of the "if only I could do this or that" I experienced

before, well now I can do it. I will be able to  soon enough.

 

I'm going to start with a Ju52 campaign, so you guys who want to fly the Ju52 offline will have some missions to fly that are beyond

what a generator can do...and I need a little help.

Aside from normal cargo runs, there will be a few sort of 'adventurous' type missions in the campaign too, plausible, probably happened at some point, and if they didn't the should have.

Commando drop/extraction behind enemy lines for instance.

 

The Ju52 specific functionality will be missing at first, and from my understanding talking to Jason is that stuff is months out.

There are work-arounds for the moment, and I'll expand/update the missions when it makes sense down the road.

I also need a few more static models - an ambulance for one. Others will make it, or I will down the road when such things are possible.

 

First - how long would you guys tolerate having to sit and wait for your cargo to be unloaded/loaded?

You'll have to suspend disbelief no matter what, since I know I can't set the timer for 20 or 30 min.

So what would be good - 2 min? Less?...a bit more?

You'll have vehicles moving around and such, so it won't be like you're used to setting on the ground in the current campaign.

 

Map preference? Right now I've defaulted to Stalingrad/winter since I myself like the atmosphere, it allows for some poor weather

pucker factor, and it's big. I can use Velikiye as a sort of "somewhere on the Eastern Front" sort of map, but I think I'll do

that later. Any opinions however are welcome.

 

Question - did the Germans utilize Russian railways to move their supplies East?

 

Question - the campaign will start at furthest airfield west...but how close to the lines were the cargo planes ever based?

Were there short hops, or at that point would it have been just trucks? I just want to vary things a bit without

getting too unrealistic. An example on the map itself if you have the knowledge would be helpful.

 

My one weakness - I'm not an Eastern Front guy. If this was the Pacific or Normandy then I'm all over timelines, troop movements and such.

As it is I might need someone to help me with any "make sure you do this or that", or maybe you know of a particular operation involving

the Ju52 I should be aware of. As it is, it will be semi-historical, since I'm not about to read Stalingrad to make sure the tanks are in

exactly the right spot, etc.

 

Any other ideas for missions, mechanics etc, let me know.

I already have ideas to use triggers and such for insertion of commandos, flashing the player from the ground for extraction.

Just need to put the work in and finish wrapping my brain around the editor logic.

 

I will also need a flexible, willing tester as I move along who can give me rapid feedback.

 

That's all for now.

 

 

[GrendelsDad]

Nice Gambit...look forward to your success.

[kendo]

Good luck with your project. Sounds great.

 

Regarding the railways - yes the Germans used the Russian rail network for transporting supplies. But German trains used a different gauge for their locomotives + carriages, so the entire track network had to be converted to German gauge as territory was captured. But, the answer is yes.

[Jade_Monkey]

I'd say 1 or 1:30 should be plenty of waiting.

[xvii-Dietrich]

Waiting time on the ground should be long enough to go refill your coffee.

[Feathered_IV]

I think I read somewhere that it took about eight to empty a Ju-52 of cargo, but two or three game-minutes would sound about right.

Having the unloading sequence also trigger a sound sample filled with people shouting and banging & scraping about in the fuselage while removing the load would be good.  Especially if you are flying with cockpit view only and cant see behind you.

[kestrel79]

Would be cool to see a car drive out to you after you land while waiting. Some nasty weather missions too would be fun.

[kendo]

I think I read somewhere that it took about eight to empty a Ju-52 of cargo, but two or three game-minutes would sound about right.

Having the unloading sequence also trigger a sound sample filled with people shouting and banging & scraping about in the fuselage while removing the load would be good.  Especially if you are flying with cockpit view only and cant see behind you.

 

The current issue of Flypast magazine (UK) has a feature on the Ju52. Had a glance through it in the shop earlier and was reading some details about the Stalingrad airlift. If I remember correctly they said typical time on the ground was 1 1/2 hours, and that there would often be a change of crew during this as well.

 

In that situation I expect:

 

1. Unloading supplies.

2. Being refueled?

3. Maybe being loaded with wounded or people to be evacuated, and maybe the logistics of getting a take-off slot amidst a morass of already landed aircraft and more incoming transports led to the time being longer than you would expect?

 

edit: this link mentions a 3 1/2 hour turnaround. 1 1/4 hours to reach Stalingrad. Time for round trip =  6 hours! Also describes the Russian attack on Tatsinskaya which could be an interesting scenario.

 

http://www.stalingrad.net/russian-hq/the-tatsinskaya-raid/the-tatsinskaya-raid.htm

 

By the way, not suggesting that we should do authentic turnaround times, a couple of minutes to give a 'suggestion' would be fine. Just wanted to share what I found earlier, to my own surprise too.

Edited September 3, 2016 by kendo

[Gunsmith86]

 

Question - the campaign will start at furthest airfield west...but how close to the lines were the cargo planes ever based?

Were there short hops, or at that point would it have been just trucks? I just want to vary things a bit without

getting too unrealistic. An example on the map itself if you have the knowledge would be helpful.

 

 

By early December the Ju 52/3m´s were operating 257 km away from Pitomnik at Tatsinskaya and could carry two tons of supplies per flight at an average cruising speed of 215 km/h, but it was a difficult task. At such a speed, the trip would take around 1 hour 15 minutes each way. With an additional 3 hours 30 minutes for turn-around at Pitomnik, refuelling, reloading, taxying, and crew changes, each sortie could take six hours, or a max of four sorties per aircraft per day. Berlin assumed that even with only 30% of the aircraft operational at any given time ( 30% is ca. 95 Ju 52 ), this would still equate to 768 tons per day (384 sorties) and thus Görings estimate of 500 tons per day was achievable in view of the fact that the force of 320 Ju52/3m´s represented less than half of the Luftwaffe´s total inventory of the type. Yet as Fiebig noted starkly on 2 December: "After yesterdays snow, everything is frozen now. We can still get He 111s out, but Ju 52s only after 11:30 and in two convoys. Lack of heating equipment. Not enough was supplied for the large number of aircraft. Transport aircraft have no business to be here. Thawing takes too much time and is too much work". Next day: "No take-offs. No supply. Ice rain. Snow and Clouds".

 

Flying out of the pocket:

"The aircraft was more than fully loaded with sick and wounded. On take-off, that was not a good situation. For flying out of the pocket, a hight of 2500m and more was customary. Our machine managed to climb to just over 2000m. We than flew with radio contact heading for Tatsinskaya. We observed the fire from heavy Russian Flak. At times I had the impression that their rounds detonated pretty close to us! We were once more in luck, but at the same time the radio operator reported that our antenna had become unserviceable. That wasn´t good news- but there was no sign of concern among the pilot or his co-pilot and radioman. I later learned that the antenna had supposedly become iced-up. We flew compass course West. After about 20 minutes flying time, we saw to the west in the dark, individual lights in line astern, but dimmed. The lights got nearer and we assumed that we were in the neighbourhood of Morozovskaya. Suddenly, the radioman came up, beaming all over his face, to announce that the antenna was functioning again. In the meantime we had descended to a height of 1000m. From the Russian Flak, we saw only distant flashes. Radio contact with Morozovskaya was established and with that, we were able to land."

[Juri_JS]

Flight times on the Stalingrad map would be extremely long with the Ju-52. If the plane gets droppable supply containers I would suggest to use the Velikiye Luki map for such missions, because of the much shorter flight distances. There were no airfields, so the trapped German troops inside the city were supplied by airdrops and towed gliders during December 1942 and January 1943.

[Gambit21]

Good stuff so far, thank you everyone. It helps.

 

I'll check where those airfield are on the map Juri.

 

Right now the plan is supplying the closest airfields to the city since that's really the only mechanic I have available to me.

At some point before the Germans were trapped within the city, I would guess they were moving supplies east to forward airfields just West of the city? - feel free to comment on that.

 

I can move the player to airfields further East if flight times are too long - wasn't sure about that yet and the first base I've been messing with is the one furthest West.

Might have to change that. Comes down to payer tolerance for flight times I guess.

 

I can make the first mission from this first FAR base a transfer to a base further East I suppose.

 

 

 

Edit: Just looked at a map.

We'll be supplying Pitomnik or similar close airfields for now it looks like - aside from other 'special' missions I mentioned.

The sabotaged train cargo rescue is a good idea too.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Gambit21

[Gunsmith86]

While the player waits at the ground to be unloaded/loaded he can man the MG 15 and cover against enamy fighters attacking the airfield this was done in winter 1941-1942 while suppling the Demyansk pocked.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Gunsmith86

[Feathered_IV]

While the player waits at the ground to be unloaded/loaded he can man the MG 15 and cover against enamy fighters attacking the airfield this was done in winter 1941-1942 while suppling the Demyansk pocked.

In multiplayer they could also act as forward air controllers and report enemy aircraft for other transports approaching the area.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Feathered_IV

[Gambit21]

While the player waits at the ground to be unloaded/loaded he can man the MG 15 and cover against enamy fighters attacking the airfield this was done in winter 1941-1942 while suppling the Demyansk pocked.

I'll research this - thank you.