LaGG. Its Whats For Dinner.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

I was hoping that I would find that the LaGG at least had a tighter turning radius than the 109, but that doesn't appear to be the case at least at low altitude.  I was able to get very slightly tighter turns, occasionally, in the LaGG at combat speeds but I had to work a lot harder at it.

 

I was thinking of meeting 109s as a LaGG driver and trying to see where there might be a potential to exploit a weakness.  My first thought was "don't".  Well, what if there is an escort mission and you have to protect those strikers?  Assuming you can't get an advantaged start or choose your arena (like over a friendly AAA battery) in a 1v1 fight the LaGG driver is going to be very busy trying to keep this from being a brief but exciting engagement.

 

The LaGG appears to have an advantage in roll rate, so it might be able to win in a scissors engagement or otherwise forcing an overshoot and reacting quickly to take advantage of it.

 

Beyond that, I am just not seeing that the LaGG has much hope.  Maybe if the fight was many v 1.

[Fifi]

The LaGG appears to have an advantage in roll rate, so it might be able to win in a scissors engagement or otherwise forcing an overshoot and reacting quickly to take advantage of it.

 

Exactely. That's how i see it anyway 

I'm sure our Lagg will be capable aircraft, as described in RL as well.

[MarcoRossolini]

The descriptions I've seen of the LaGG have been that it was extremely poor, though it probably a plus compared to flying a I-15 or I-16...

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

I meant to say: I hope it can take a lot of damage, because it probably will need to.  Perhaps a strategy can be to run the 109s out of ammo before they get around to taking out all the IL-2s ;-)

[Cybermat47]

Hmmm... I'm looking forward to cooking some LaGGs on the barbecue...

[MarcoRossolini]

With all this hostility I'm positively looking forward to the Yak (and La-5...)

[Finkeren]

If you can drag the 109 into a fast rolling scissors, you at least stand a fighting chance. Your volume of fire should give you an edge when taking quick shots in such a situation.

 

It's a small comfort, but it's propably all we're gonna get.

[BeastyBaiter]

The LaGG-3 seems less prone to compressing at high speed. It also has a better roll rate. Tough to put those advantages to use given the poor high altitude performance but that's what it has to work with. Honestly, teamwork will be the only way to fight 109's effectively with it.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

That's right victi...err...Lagg pilots, all you will see of me is this...

 

 

Edited November 26, 2013 by =BKHZ=Furbs

[SYN_DerHesse70]

The LaGG-3 seems less prone to compressing at high speed. It also has a better roll rate. Tough to put those advantages to use given the poor high altitude performance but that's what it has to work with. Honestly, teamwork will be the only way to fight 109's effectively with it.

 

The roll rate of the lagg-3 and the bf 109 in game is the same on aileron. With aileron only 5s for a full roll with both aircraft.

 

But with full rudder and aileron the 109 rolls 360° in 2s and the lagg-3 in 4s!!

[LLv44_Mprhead]

I was thinking of meeting 109s as a LaGG driver and trying to see where there might be a potential to exploit a weakness.  My first thought was "don't".  Well, what if there is an escort mission and you have to protect those strikers?  Assuming you can't get an advantaged start or choose your arena (like over a friendly AAA battery) in a 1v1 fight the LaGG driver is going to be very busy trying to keep this from being a brief but exciting engagement.

 

Then again, if you can keep 109s from shooting down those attack planes/bombers your mission is successful.

[BeastyBaiter]

The roll rate of the lagg-3 and the bf 109 in game is the same on aileron. With aileron only 5s for a full roll with both aircraft.

 

But with full rudder and aileron the 109 rolls 360° in 2s and the lagg-3 in 4s!!

 

It depends on air speed.

[Finkeren]

The roll rate of the lagg-3 and the bf 109 in game is the same on aileron. With aileron only 5s for a full roll with both aircraft.

 

But with full rudder and aileron the 109 rolls 360° in 2s and the lagg-3 in 4s!!

 

If you can only get the LaGG to roll once in 4 sec, there's something wrong with your stick. The 109 rolls really well with rudder input, I'll give you that, but the LaGG can certainly keep pace.

[FlatSpinMan]

Well, there's probably a reason the 109 became so famous and was built and added onto in endless numbers for years and year, whereas the LaGG was, well, you know...

Gotta say - both those roll rates sound very quick. What's the 190 going to be like? I won't know if I'm coming or going - it'll just be a sickening blur of ground/sky/ground/sky.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Hmmm... I'm looking forward to cooking some LaGGs on the barbecue...

Well I am looking forward to the challenge to down 109s in a cr@pplan  You gotta love the underdog!

[Finkeren]

Well, there's probably a reason the 109 became so famous and was built and added onto in endless numbers for years and year, whereas the LaGG was, well, you know...

 

...evolved into one of the most capable low altitude fighters of its era, once it was fitted with a proper engine.

 

That was what you were gonna say, right?

Edited November 26, 2013 by Finkeren

[FlatSpinMan]

...evolved into one of the most capable low altitude fighters of its era, once it was fitted with a proper engine.

 

That was what you were gonna say, right?

Yeah but it was "evolved" enough to get an entirely different designation. It's not the same plane.

[Finkeren]

Yeah but it was "evolved" enough to get an entirely different designation. It's not the same plane.

 

Designations are often given arbitrarily, especially Soviet ones. If installing a new engine and armament, redesigning the cowling, and making minor canges to the wings and overall structure, is the same as making an entirely new aircraft, then I guess the Bf 109E can't be the same plane as either the "D" or the "F" model, right?

 

BTW: Part of the reason the designation changed from LaGG-3 to LaG-5 to La-5 was because of changes in the design team, and also propably because they wanted to distance the "new" design from the bad press the LaGG had gotten.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Finkeren

[dkoor]

I meant to say: I hope it can take a lot of damage, because it probably will need to.  Perhaps a strategy can be to run the 109s out of ammo before they get around to taking out all the IL-2s ;-)

I kinda concur... but in all reality LaGG was in fact all around inferior fighter to Bf-109 and it can engage fight with 109 only with some kind of initial advantage.

 

And that matches historical reports too.

 

I suspect in the end, after some time under their belts, 109 pilots will be able to emerge victors in 9/10 clashes with LaGG 1 on 1.

Perhaps even better as LaGG really have nothing effective versus Messerschmitt.

 

That's kinda bad thing for game balance, but that's how it is.

[Zmaj76]

I kinda concur... but in all reality LaGG was in fact all around inferior fighter to Bf-109 and it can engage fight with 109 only with some kind of initial advantage.

 

And that matches historical reports too.

 

I suspect in the end, after some time under their belts, 109 pilots will be able to emerge victors in 9/10 clashes with LaGG 1 on 1.

Perhaps even better as LaGG really have nothing effective versus Messerschmitt.

 

That's kinda bad thing for game balance, but that's how it is.

 

Well I suppose we will have pseudohistorical and historical missions where we will have Yaks available.....mission goals, bomber escort, team play etc.....shouldnt be 1vs1 all the time...........on fast food servers would be La5 vs G2 low level furballs anyways...

Edited November 26, 2013 by Tvrdi

[Finkeren]

Experience from RoF tells me, that as far as MP is concerned, the experience and capabilities of the pilot goes a long way to level out imbalances between planes.

 

On paper a Nieuport 17 should stand absolutely no chance against a Fokker D.VIIf, as it is inferior on almost any level and on top of that harder to fly(sorry for the frame of reference you non-RoFers out there) Yet I have still quite often seen N17 pilots having a party online, shooting D.VIIf n00bs out of the sky.

[Volkoff]

 I think that the smallest unit a LaGG-3 should ever be operated in is a two ship.  For years I have seen the great teamwork between Sections, like the Viks/Vaal two ship or the Tushka/ Gamecock two ship. I want to eventually be able to fuction seemlessly with another person, in a highly effective two ship, the way they do. No more of the me, myself, and I, three ship. From now on it is....   When I can play with my fellow 69 GIAP members, I want to drill extensively on two ship tactics, particularly two ship tactics that take advantage of the LaGG-3's rollrate.  MJ

Edited November 26, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[dkoor]

Well I suppose we will have pseudohistorical and historical missions where we will have Yaks available.....mission goals, bomber escort, team play etc.....shouldnt be 1vs1 all the time...........on fast food servers would be La5 vs G2 low level furballs anyways...

Yeah, in some sort of historical missions 1001 thing plays role aside pure aircraft performance.

Pilot experience and brains being among more important ones .

That's the beauty of the game such is this. At least for me.

And yeah you could see many times people doing well in underdog planes in such environment...

 

But for raw testing of aircraft performance or cockpit off fast furbal etc. I suspect LaGG wont be really a prime choice  

I now wait to see what Yak will be like, but I suspect it will outperform Bf-109 on at least some characteristic of importance.

Rate of turn comes to mind. Not really sure what exact type will we get because Yaks differ in performance wildly depending on engine mounted in them.

 

La-5 will be without doubt a match to German fighters, it's only left to see what kind of performer will that Yak-1 be.

[Capt_Hook]

Can't tell till we can actually pull the trigger and have nasty things fly out the front, but it does seem to me that the LaGG is a more stable gun platform.  Good marksmanship will be key with the LaGG, as you'll likely not get too many second opportunities to get your guns on target in most engagements. 

[=38=Tatarenko]

The descriptions I've seen of the LaGG have been that it was extremely poor, though it probably a plus compared to flying a I-15 or I-16...

Just reading Kaberov (again) and he describes his first LaGG after flying the I-16 in combat. He likes practical things - the automatic gear retraction, the speed, the guns and above all the radio. I think it's the radio that makes the greatest difference in practice, something we rarely if ever consider in our simming.

[=38=Tatarenko]

Re scissors - the LaGG has the ability to slow down quickest which is vital in scissors. I have throttle and "pitch" together on my throttle quad and can easily slide them both back and slow down, as well as dropping big flaps at twice the speed of a 109. I reckon scissors will work. Add to that the ability to raise flaps from full down much quicker than the 109 and you have some options.

 

Unfortunately they all start with the bandit behind you

 

Pity this isn't the Series 35 with slats.

[Volkoff]

You would not want a LaGG-3 for dinner, unless you are a termite. 

 

MJ

 

Edited November 26, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[BlitzPig_EL]

Guys,  I think any predictions of how combat will play out in the release version, based on your ALPHA experience are, pardon me, daft.

 

From what I'm reading neither of these aircraft have anything remotely like a realistic FM.

 

I'd wait till the cake is baked before commenting on how it tastes.

Edited November 27, 2013 by ElAurens

[MarcoRossolini]

You would not want a LaGG-3 for dinner, unless you are a termite. 

 

MJ

 

 

 

 Leave my Lagg alone you!

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Guys,  I think any predictions of how combat will play out in the release version, based on your ALPHA experience are, pardon me, daft.

 

From what I'm reading neither of these aircraft have anything remotely like a realistic FM.

 

I'd wait till the cake is baked before commenting on how it tastes.

 

 

By all means, please share your experiences with the FM and tell us how it is unrealistic.  Oh, you haven't flown the planes yet?  Hmmm... And you call us daft.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Well both aircraft have roll rates, by all accounts, that are faster than a REAL FW 190.

 

If that isn't daft I don't know what is.

 

But do carry on with testing for the rest of us (lots of us by the way), who are waiting in the wings to see if this project is worthy of our $$$.

[Fifi]

Well both aircraft have roll rates, by all accounts, that are faster than a REAL FW 190. If that isn't daft I don't know what is. But do carry on with testing for the rest of us (lots of us by the way), who are waiting in the wings to see if this project is worthy of our $$$.

 

Lagg excellent roll rate certainly very surprised me at first, i even had to set a small curve to slightly reduce it!

On my Warthog stick, i found it too much sensitive, very annoying for landings. Now with the curve, it feels much better to me.

Don't have this trouble with 109.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Well both aircraft have roll rates, by all accounts, that are faster than a REAL FW 190. If that isn't daft I don't know what is. But do carry on with testing for the rest of us (lots of us by the way), who are waiting in the wings to see if this project is worthy of our $$$.

 

Sure, if "by all accounts" you mean "none".  The LaGG does roll well, but nothing like 160 or 170 degrees per second. Snap rolls are another story, but that isn't what roll rates measure.

 

You are welcome.

[II./JG27_Rich]

As I said before.......

 

[SYN_DerHesse70]

If you can only get the LaGG to roll once in 4 sec, there's something wrong with your stick. The 109 rolls really well with rudder input, I'll give you that, but the LaGG can certainly keep pace.

 Here is nothing wrong! What's your roll rate at 450km/h in the Lagg-3? Please post a video if you can.

 

@Flatspinman: So you think a roll rate of 72°/s to 90°/s is quick? A FW-190 rolls in 150°/s!!

Edited November 27, 2013 by DerHesse70

[Nonolem]

I have read somewhere that the FM are also in alpha version... We can expect a lot of changes (even if, anyway, the LaGG 3 will certainly have a lot of troubles against the Me 109 in the definitive version).

[Jaws2002]

Lagg3 will be the new Noop28. I like it.

[Nonolem]

At least, the N28 is fast...

[Jupp]

~S~ Gentlemen,

 

 Moltke's Theory of War states, "no plan survives contact with the enemy".

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Well both aircraft have roll rates, by all accounts, that are faster than a REAL FW 190.

 

If that isn't daft I don't know what is.

 

But do carry on with testing for the rest of us (lots of us by the way), who are waiting in the wings to see if this project is worthy of our $$$.

Well.. Once they introduce a P40 (speculating.. But it feels like an obvious addition as a lend lease for the next step in the series) you will be with us in a jiffy mate