Did 20mm Minengeschoss get nerfed?

[Luft1942]

So I was playing around on Berloga today using mouse aim, I know shame on me but I'm waiting for the arrival of my Gladiator  , and I just gotta say I feel like 20mm Minengeschoss is under performing. When I was hitting enemy aircraft I was getting a lot of puffs of smoke instead of dealing crippling damage like I should have been. I'm talking about absolutely nailing guys where you would think their plane's wing would rip off or they would be sent into the ground in a fire ball but they were able to just keep on flying like nothing happened   

 

When I switched over to the VVS and brought out my LaGG-3 I was easily taking guys out with burst of 5-10 rounds usually resulting in the pilot killed which I find especially odd since I was firing from their six. 20mm ShVAK had no problem setting planes afire and hits to the wings would just send them flying off while 20mm Minengeschoss was taking 2-3 times the amount of hits to just get any crippling damage.

 

It's worth noting I also set up some test in quick mission and the results were more or less the same. I figured it had something to do with the net code, ping, etc but it didn't. I just don't remember 20mm Minengeschoss being this underwhelming the last time I played but then again that was 5 or 6 months ago but then planes actually went down after a few solid hits.

 

Please devs, look into this matter and see if you might have mistakenly changed something. I don't think I'm going crazy   but something definitely doesn't feel right anymore!

 

[Jade_Monkey]

Not all hits are the same. Where you hit matters a lot more than just getting a hit.

[Willy__]

Funny how that is a feeling shared for most of community, yet everytime someone brings up the matter the DM/FM police come quickly saying theres nothing wrong.... "learn to play" and similar...    

 

Anyways, I already grabbed my popcorn. 

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by JAGER_Staiger

[LukeFF]

 

 

Funny how that is a feeling shared for most of community, yet everytime someone brings up the matter the DM/FM police come quickly saying theres nothing wrong.... "learn to play" and similar...

 

...which is just a feeling (there's that word again) of yours.    

So I was playing around on Berloga today using mouse aim, I know shame on me but I'm waiting for the arrival of my Gladiator  , and I just gotta say I feel like 20mm Minengeschoss is under performing. When I was hitting enemy aircraft I was getting a lot of puffs of smoke instead of dealing crippling damage like I should have been. I'm talking about absolutely nailing guys where you would think their plane's wing would rip off or they would be sent into the ground in a fire ball but they were able to just keep on flying like nothing happened   

 

When I switched over to the VVS and brought out my LaGG-3 I was easily taking guys out with burst of 5-10 rounds usually resulting in the pilot killed which I find especially odd since I was firing from their six. 20mm ShVAK had no problem setting planes afire and hits to the wings would just send them flying off while 20mm Minengeschoss was taking 2-3 times the amount of hits to just get any crippling damage.

 

It's worth noting I also set up some test in quick mission and the results were more or less the same. I figured it had something to do with the net code, ping, etc but it didn't. I just don't remember 20mm Minengeschoss being this underwhelming the last time I played but then again that was 5 or 6 months ago but then planes actually went down after a few solid hits.

 

Please devs, look into this matter and see if you might have mistakenly changed something. I don't think I'm going crazy   but something definitely doesn't feel right anymore!

 

Track, or it didn't happen. 

[Luft1942]

...which is just a feeling (there's that word again) of yours.    

 

Track, or it didn't happen. 

 

I don't have any recordings from today unfortunately but I will do some more quick missions and make a comparison video between ShVAK and Minengeschoss when I get home from work tomorrow. I will also play some more matches on Berloga and hopefully squeeze it all together. You should be able to test this yourself but I will make a video anyway. I'm hitting planes in critical areas such as their engines and wings but my shots don't feel like they're dealing the damage they should be.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Luft1942

[ACG_pezman]

So I was playing around on Berloga today using mouse aim, I know shame on me but I'm waiting for the arrival of my Gladiator  , and I just gotta say I feel like 20mm Minengeschoss is under performing. When I was hitting enemy aircraft I was getting a lot of puffs of smoke instead of dealing crippling damage like I should have been. I'm talking about absolutely nailing guys where you would think their plane's wing would rip off or they would be sent into the ground in a fire ball but they were able to just keep on flying like nothing happened   

 

When I switched over to the VVS and brought out my LaGG-3 I was easily taking guys out with burst of 5-10 rounds usually resulting in the pilot killed which I find especially odd since I was firing from their six. 20mm ShVAK had no problem setting planes afire and hits to the wings would just send them flying off while 20mm Minengeschoss was taking 2-3 times the amount of hits to just get any crippling damage.

 

It's worth noting I also set up some test in quick mission and the results were more or less the same. I figured it had something to do with the net code, ping, etc but it didn't. I just don't remember 20mm Minengeschoss being this underwhelming the last time I played but then again that was 5 or 6 months ago but then planes actually went down after a few solid hits.

 

Please devs, look into this matter and see if you might have mistakenly changed something. I don't think I'm going crazy   but something definitely doesn't feel right anymore!

 

I know it seems that way but I think the real issue is latency.  If you monitor your internet traffic when playing this game you will notice that the traffic peaks when you fire your weapons.  That traffic is packets of information about your rounds being sent to the server to register hits and what not.  On your PC you can see the hits (puffs of smoke, sparks) but the damage will not be given unless the server receives your packet that says you hit your target and inflicted damage.  These packets, because there are so many, can get dropped en-route to the server and it does not appear that the game re-sends dropped packets on weapon firing.  So, while you see hits on your screen, the server never received some of the packets that contained hits, therefore damage was never given to the target.

 

It's not a nerf, it's the problem of playing on servers across the globe.  More NA or EU servers would alleviate this issue some, but there is nothing the devs can do to stop it.

 

Funny how that is a feeling shared for most of community, yet everytime someone brings up the matter the DM/FM police come quickly saying theres nothing wrong.... "learn to play" and similar...    

 

Anyways, I already grabbed my popcorn. 

 

 

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, the first [Edited] has made an appearance in this thread!

 

I think it's sad that [Edited] like you Staiger never consider that the problem could be anything else other than a busted FM/DM and that is the reason you will always have issues.

 

...which is just a feeling (there's that word again) of yours.    

 

Lufties have a bunch of "feels" that they have to deal with, it's why they don't fly VVS.  If they did they would "feel" frustrated

Edited September 3, 2016 by Bearcat
Knock it off ..

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Working on the Tracks: MG151 vs Il-1941

 

Had to do it via Dropbox, the Tracks are quite long due to my atrocious Gunamnship. 

 

First Track is against fuselage https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wsuovhkdpf8rbv/skirmish.2016-09-02_01-08-52_00.trk?dl=0

Second Track against Wings https://www.dropbox.com/s/8th3v6puz4czntq/skirmish.2016-09-02_01-20-18_00.trk?dl=0

 

 

Shvak against Il-1941

 

Fuselage Test 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/a0l3cekk45z1mnu/skirmish.2016-09-02_01-49-59_00.trk?dl=0

Wings Test 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/vgihdv8wgde7qf2/skirmish.2016-09-02_01-59-11_00.trk?dl=0

Edited September 2, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Luft1942]

I know it seems that way but I think the real issue is latency. If you monitor your internet traffic when playing this game you will notice that the traffic peaks when you fire your weapons. That traffic is packets of information about your rounds being sent to the server to register hits and what not. On your PC you can see the hits (puffs of smoke, sparks) but the damage will not be given unless the server receives your packet that says you hit your target and inflicted damage. These packets, because there are so many, can get dropped en-route to the server and it does not appear that the game re-sends dropped packets on weapon firing. So, while you see hits on your screen, the server never received some of the packets that contained hits, therefore damage was never given to the target.

 

It's not a nerf, it's the problem of playing on servers across the globe. More NA or EU servers would alleviate this issue some, but there is nothing the devs can do to stop it.

Okay I understand the problems I'm facing online as you explained however when I'm offline I'm still expierencing lower damage output which I don't understand.

 

I try to fly VVS and Luftwaffe equally so I don't really favor one side more than the other but I feel now like damage output might be significantly stronger for VVS planes as a sort of "balance" since IMO Luftwaffe planes have better flying capabilities. Needless to say I feel like this is something the devs should look into because I miss the days where Minengeschoss would shred planes with ease.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Luft1942

[Solty]

Funny how that is a feeling shared for most of community, yet everytime someone brings up the matter the DM/FM police come quickly saying theres nothing wrong.... "learn to play" and similar...    

 

Anyways, I already grabbed my popcorn. 

 

 

The main problem is that people think that MG151/20 is some kind of magical wand that makes airplanes disapear.

 

It was a fine weapon, but you cannot expect it to kill an airplane within 1-3 shots every time. You hit what you hit and thats it. Stop treating it as a wonderweapon. For reference watch some gun cams.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Just for Statistic Accuracy: 

 

MG151 again

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t766rqv2ss0gy03/skirmish.2016-09-02_02-21-54_00.trk?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ua7e7mvizjxnxof/skirmish.2016-09-02_02-35-17_00.trk?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mfflvo3k18qu4wq/skirmish.2016-09-02_02-54-42_00.trk?dl=0

 

Shvaks (those Il-2s are really frustrating to chase)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/62xj0ysc48lf250/skirmish.2016-09-02_03-00-54_00.trk?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nudqwcdsxssz289/skirmish.2016-09-02_03-09-50_00.trk?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s1061ht8vvvm61b/skirmish.2016-09-02_03-28-28_00.trk?dl=0

Edited September 2, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Jade_Monkey]

Funny how that is a feeling shared for most of community, yet everytime someone brings up the matter the DM/FM police come quickly saying theres nothing wrong.... "learn to play" and similar...    

 

Anyways, I already grabbed my popcorn. 

 

You mean yourself and a couple of others who only fly Axis?

 

Provide some more evidence instead of complaining, I've had enough popcorn watching you guys whine because you dont get those precious kills you think you deserved.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

You mean yourself and a couple of others who only fly Axis?

 

Provide some more evidence instead of complaining, I've had enough popcorn watching you guys whine because you dont get those precious kills you think you deserved.

Well, I provided some tracks, they should as well, count the numbers of hits for similar Damage and then make their case. 

[Aap]

Would be interesting to see a test where:

1. Russian weapons were used against Russian planes. For example Yak against Yak and Pe-2.

2. Russian weapons were used against German planes. For example Yak against Bf109 and He111.

3. German weapons were used against German planes. For example Bf109 against Bf109 and He111.

4. German weapons were used against Russian planes. For example Bf109 against Yak and Pe-2.

 

Unfortunately I don't have time to do such tests, but if Klaus or somebody else that is good at doing tests was doing it, would be interesting to see results.

[216th_Jordan]

I'd also say: Russian planes are built though. German ones not so much (except 190 here). I suggest running those tests with yak agaibst yak and 109 against 109 and then against each other. Then compare the results with official tests of these weapons. One common mistake many people do is comparing a sim with another sim, but who did it right in the first place then?

Edited September 2, 2016 by 216th_Jordan

[=ARTOA=Bombenleger]

i just did a test first in the 109 vs another 109 then in the yak vs another 109. (to rule out differences in damage models)
With the 109 i did 4 kills only firing the cannon before i ran out of ammo (mostly due to horrible aim) and with the yak i did 3 kill before running out of ammo (because faster firing and less ammo).
What i observed:
the 109 does significant damage when it hits a critical area, but it is harder to hit a critical area because the bullets fly slower than that of the shvak and also it fires slower, so where in a yak i would land 3 hits i only did 1 or 2 and those bullets often missed critical areas.
In the yak i did more damage when i hit because even if the first hit wasnt critical the second or third often was which was then sufficient to kill the plane.
My conclusion is that the shvak has greater damage potential in snapshots where the 20mm mg151 has a greater "endurance".
I think there are a lot of people who have the feeling the 151 doesnt do enough damage because even if it looks like you hit the engine the bullet actualy hits further back because the explosion looks so big and the bullet travels so slow.
note that the tests i did where not big enough for reliable statistics its just the observations i made.

Edited September 2, 2016 by =ARTOA=Bombenleger

[E69_geramos109]

Is not only a few feeling this.

I use to fly german planes on servers but me and my squad mates sometimes fly russian in missions, dogfights etc and is not only a feeling is real. When i fly as a red you can hit planes from a long distance but ok... is muzzle velocity but the damage is allways stronger, you hit a 109 and rip of the wing, dead engine, rip off all tail surfaces and when they hit me i can hold my plane and keep fighting for a long time.

 

When i take russians ok planes are not as fast but you feel like op when you are shooting someone.

 

I will make a video and complete test. Seems the only way.

[Luft1942]

Is not only a few feeling this.

I use to fly german planes on servers but me and my squad mates sometimes fly russian in missions, dogfights etc and is not only a feeling is real. When i fly as a red you can hit planes from a long distance but ok... is muzzle velocity but the damage is allways stronger, you hit a 109 and rip of the wing, dead engine, rip off all tail surfaces and when they hit me i can hold my plane and keep fighting for a long time.

 

When i take russians ok planes are not as fast but you feel like op when you are shooting someone.

 

I will make a video and complete test. Seems the only way.

Please do make a test video. I'm going to make one today too and we can compare the results from our test.

Would be interesting to see a test where:

1. Russian weapons were used against Russian planes. For example Yak against Yak and Pe-2.

2. Russian weapons were used against German planes. For example Yak against Bf109 and He111.

3. German weapons were used against German planes. For example Bf109 against Bf109 and He111.

4. German weapons were used against Russian planes. For example Bf109 against Yak and Pe-2.

 

Unfortunately I don't have time to do such tests, but if Klaus or somebody else that is good at doing tests was doing it, would be interesting to see results.

Sounds like a good test basis and I will base my testing off your suggestions.

[216th_Jordan]

Is not only a few feeling this.

I use to fly german planes on servers but me and my squad mates sometimes fly russian in missions, dogfights etc and is not only a feeling is real. When i fly as a red you can hit planes from a long distance but ok... is muzzle velocity but the damage is allways stronger, you hit a 109 and rip of the wing, dead engine, rip off all tail surfaces and when they hit me i can hold my plane and keep fighting for a long time.

 

When i take russians ok planes are not as fast but you feel like op when you are shooting someone.

 

I will make a video and complete test. Seems the only way.

The 109 is a very light plane. Its structure is way lighter than any russian planes structure. 109 has heavier armament, heavier engine, and is still weighs less than a yak-1 which has lighter armament and engine. You have to take that into account. So whay do you expect? There are some points where 109 seems very vulnerable to me to, but I don't know if thats correct or not. Given the way its build I can imagine that it doesn't need much to be torn apart.

[E69_geramos109]

The 109 is a very light plane. Its structure is way lighter than any russian planes structure. 109 has heavier armament, heavier engine, and is still weighs less than a yak-1 which has lighter armament and engine. You have to take that into account. So whay do you expect? There are some points where 109 seems very vulnerable to me to, but I don't know if thats correct or not. Given the way its build I can imagine that it doesn't need much to be torn apart.

True. The airframe is lighter and is a compact plane where you can hit a critical thing so easy. But same for yak, is a light plane too, about the same sice, i think smaller than 109 and a compact plane too. I don t know if is realistic or not, there are a lot of variables. 

Lets see the test and will make objetive conclusions. 

[kendo]

...

 

It's worth noting I also set up some test in quick mission and the results were more or less the same. I figured it had something to do with the net code, ping, etc but it didn't. I just don't remember 20mm Minengeschoss being this underwhelming the last time I played but then again that was 5 or 6 months ago but then planes actually went down after a few solid hits.

 

Please devs, look into this matter and see if you might have mistakenly changed something. I don't think I'm going crazy but something definitely doesn't feel right anymore!

Okay I understand the problems I'm facing online as you explained however when I'm offline I'm still expierencing lower damage output which I don't understand.

 

I try to fly VVS and Luftwaffe equally so I don't really favor one side more than the other but I feel now like damage output might be significantly stronger for VVS planes as a sort of "balance" since IMO Luftwaffe planes have better flying capabilities. Needless to say I feel like this is something the devs should look into because I miss the days where Minengeschoss would shred planes with ease.

Well, I provided some tracks, they should as well, count the numbers of hits for similar Damage and then make their case.

 

A few things occur to me. First thing is establishing whether there has been any change or whether this is 'placebo' again. It has often been the case that after an update someone will post that they noticed a change or improvement in aircraft modelling or some feature, often getting agreement from others, only for the devs to state later that in fact nothing was changed. It's happened a lot. So, first thing is establishing is a perceived difference real?

 

But, having said that, didn't they improve the structural strength modelling of all aircraft a while back which effectively reduced the destructive power of hits? If you haven't played in 6 months maybe that is the difference you are noting? 

 

Second, as already noted there are differences in construction and durability between the various aircraft in the game, and variations in hitting power for their armaments (muzzle velocity and explosive power). That means that in an accurate simulation you would expect differences to be apparent when hits are scored on different aircraft. Judging whether the destructive effects are accurate then is a complex task with many factors to be taken into account.

 

It's mistaken to expect identical effects of hits from different weapons on different aircraft and to conclude if you don't find it that it is down to 'balancing'. It is what would be expected in an accurate simulation. And actually, expecting and pushing for a homogenized, identical hit effect of different weapons on different structures is, ironically, exactly what would result in 'balancing' and deviations from historical accuracy. So, beware of examining videos and tracks and naively expecting identical results from hits. It's more complex than that

Edited September 2, 2016 by kendo

[E69_geramos109]

Ok i have done all test.

I will edit the video with my conclusion as soon as i can. I hope to see more test.

[Luft1942]

Ok i have done all test.

I will edit the video with my conclusion as soon as i can. I hope to see more test.

I have my recordings done as well however I have no idea how to edit them all together Which program do you use to do this? This is my first time putting a video together and need some help.

[ACG_pezman]

I have my recordings done as well however I have no idea how to edit them all together Which program do you use to do this? This is my first time putting a video together and need some help.

Use either:

NVidia shadow play

MSI afterburner

Fraps

 

What you do is record using those programs from the track you recorded, then you can edit the videos you made in something like windows movie maker.

[E69_geramos109]

I have my recordings done as well however I have no idea how to edit them all together Which program do you use to do this? This is my first time putting a video together and need some help.

I use shadow play to capture and sony vegas to edit the video Edited September 2, 2016 by E69_geramos109

[Luft1942]

Use either:

NVidia shadow play

MSI afterburner

Fraps

 

What you do is record using those programs from the track you recorded, then you can edit the videos you made in something like windows movie maker.

I recorded with Shadowplay and just downloaded Windows Movie Maker to edit my clips. Thanks!

[F/JG300_Gruber]

 

Second, as already noted there are differences in construction and durability between the various aircraft in the game, and variations in hitting power for their armaments (muzzle velocity and explosive power). That means that in an accurate simulation you would expect differences to be apparent when hits are scored on different aircraft. Judging whether the destructive effects are accurate then is a complex task with many factors to be taken into account.

 

 

I think the damage modelling is pretty detailed. Ballistic is quite detailed and I noticed that kinetic energy is also taken into account. I once got shot by P40s from long distance (900m+) from dead six (I was fleeing​ extending away) and the few bullets that hit my plane just bounced away, The flight log was also virgin of any damage events.

[ShamrockOneFive]

 

 

A few things occur to me. First thing is establishing whether there has been any change or whether this is 'placebo' again. It has often been the case that after an update someone will post that they noticed a change or improvement in aircraft modelling or some feature, often getting agreement from others, only for the devs to state later that in fact nothing was changed. It's happened a lot. So, first thing is establishing is a perceived difference real?

 

But, having said that, didn't they improve the structural strength modelling of all aircraft a while back which effectively reduced the destructive power of hits? If you haven't played in 6 months maybe that is the difference you are noting? 

 

Second, as already noted there are differences in construction and durability between the various aircraft in the game, and variations in hitting power for their armaments (muzzle velocity and explosive power). That means that in an accurate simulation you would expect differences to be apparent when hits are scored on different aircraft. Judging whether the destructive effects are accurate then is a complex task with many factors to be taken into account.

 

It's mistaken to expect identical effects of hits from different weapons on different aircraft and to conclude if you don't find it that it is down to 'balancing'. It is what would be expected in an accurate simulation. And actually, expecting and pushing for a homogenized, identical hit effect of different weapons on different structures is, ironically, exactly what would result in 'balancing' and deviations from historical accuracy. So, beware of examining videos and tracks and naively expecting identical results from hits. It's more complex than that

 

 

Well said! The trouble a lot of folks have is separating their perception from reality... unfortunately human memory tends to prioritize and fall on things that support our world view and tends to reject and gloss over the things that don't.

 

So that time that you ripped a Yak-1's wing off in a single hit was a fluke and that time it took 5-6 hits to get some smoke was an obvious error At least to your inner thoughts it was.

 

So the best way to do this, given that you aren't likely to get exactly the same result each time (as it should be... its a simulation after all) is do the tests in as controlled a fashion as possible and repeatedly. That way you even out the statistical anomalies. Also, you keep records of the whole thing so that you eliminate what you selectively remember and instead have some statistics to work from. Then we'd be getting somewhere.

 

Your memory lies to you... all the time

[Luft1942]

Well said! The trouble a lot of folks have is separating their perception from reality... unfortunately human memory tends to prioritize and fall on things that support our world view and tends to reject and gloss over the things that don't.

 

So that time that you ripped a Yak-1's wing off in a single hit was a fluke and that time it took 5-6 hits to get some smoke was an obvious error At least to your inner thoughts it was.

 

So the best way to do this, given that you aren't likely to get exactly the same result each time (as it should be... its a simulation after all) is do the tests in as controlled a fashion as possible and repeatedly. That way you even out the statistical anomalies. Also, you keep records of the whole thing so that you eliminate what you selectively remember and instead have some statistics to work from. Then we'd be getting somewhere.

 

Your memory lies to you... all the time

My memory did lie to me. I'm still working on editing my video but I tested for about two hours today and the results were, well, mixed. Sometimes 2-3 Minengeschoss shells were taking out a Pe-2's engines no problem and setting him on fire and others it would take several passes. Same applies for ShVAK.

 

My conclusion from all the testing I did leads me to believe the devs have done a damn fine job at modelling ballistics and damage models in this game. Like you said, I can't expect the same results each time. There are just too many variables to take into account and not every hit is going to be a kill shot. Hopefully if all goes well I will havey video edited and uploaded to YouTube tomorrow so I can share my results.

[ShamrockOneFive]

My memory did lie to me. I'm still working on editing my video but I tested for about two hours today and the results were, well, mixed. Sometimes 2-3 Minengeschoss shells were taking out a Pe-2's engines no problem and setting him on fire and others it would take several passes. Same applies for ShVAK.

 

My conclusion from all the testing I did leads me to believe the devs have done a damn fine job at modelling ballistics and damage models in this game. Like you said, I can't expect the same results each time. There are just too many variables to take into account and not every hit is going to be a kill shot. Hopefully if all goes well I will havey video edited and uploaded to YouTube tomorrow so I can share my results.

 

Sounds great! Thanks for doing the actual hard work and working to see what some of the results from a round of actual testing came up with.

[Asgar]

can't wait to see the results of your tests. 

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

I've noticed it to I can pump a quarter of my ammo into a Yak and the damn thing will still be flying (I shoot close are rarely miss from 50 or 100 feet away) while like 3 rounds from his guns shredded my plane of its wings

Edited September 4, 2016 by II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33

[Asgar]

Works both ways.

really? never seen that happen in BoS

[FTC_Riksen]

Me neither ...

[216th_Jordan]

What are you guys talking about? If its about shredding a yak with mineshells aim for the wings and it goes down quick. No magic here. I'm not a good 109 pilot but this works.

[MadisonV44]

Humm placebo effect coming on the table again and again ... 

 

I think I will get more pop corns : 

"Utah ... get me two !!!!"

 

 

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

Humm placebo effect coming on the table again and again ... 

 

I think I will get more pop corns : 

"Utah ... get me two !!!!"

 

 

 

I have performed a lot off test, and I can confirm that the Russian planes in the IL-2 BoS are harder than German planes, ..and more things

 

1/ Rusian weapons in the game are more easy to aiming and hit target at long distances. At 600mts and more, they can kill your pilot. ..That´s almost impossibly for a German plane at same distance. 

2/ Russian airplane can take smoke for a lot of time, ...fuel, water, or oil leakage no affect to performances, and draining time is very long.

3/ ALL airplanes have an unrealistic VF and VFe in this game, specially the Yak can operate the flaps (pneumatically deployed) at any speed, ...and that no affect to handling, or stability in dogfight, reduce the turn ratio and no generate vibration, or noise in the aircraft .. magic flaps.

4/ German 15mm gunpod, are more effective than 20mm gun pod, ..obviously German 20mm minengeschoss are gummies for the Russian.

 

This is not placebo ...this is a bad Russian joke,  I think...

.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It's always fun to watch legitimate concerns, questions or observations get completely overrun by "DOOOOOM!"

[MadisonV44]

Otto, You didn't catch my word. 

I was joking about the placebo effect  brought by Baron_von_Zlatan as an alibi and 100% agree on what you developed 

(you can also check my posts on this subject on the forum)  

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

More evidences.. ..video from Lothar29   

[Asgar]

i love how he zoom by the Pe-2 and it manages to damage his plane so severely it blows up...the Pe-2 killed itself just to avoid being killed by a German :D