So I got the FW 190

[Turban]

The FW 190 in BoS is not a flying brick.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Nope, it absolutely isnt

[303_Kwiatek]

I remember that before famous "finess ratio correction" Fw190 A3 allow some manouvers expecially scissors and could turn more safetly even it had still nasty stall characteristic. Plane accelerated and dove also better then now. It was enough only to fix still poor climb rate dont touching anything more. For some reason climb rate was made better a bit (still doubt it climb historically) but other things was seriously craped. Take also fact that e.x. Yak1 climb better then in russian test and is also much faster at altitude then should not mention maximum dive speed. Take these facts toghether and you should be no wonder then A3 in Bos is flying brick actally not famous burcher bird

 

Interesting is that similar issue is with P40 in Bos. These plane is also flying brick. Russian test for P40 gave it better sustained turn time at 1 km - 19 sec then 109 F4. It also got better roll rate. How it is in game all who fly P40 know. I suspect seriously issue similar to Fw190 with finess ratio - wing polar. P40 in Bos got only 14 deg critical angle off attack which comparing to E.x yak1 18 deg. P40 cant sustain turn time in Bos like irl could

Edited September 6, 2016 by 303_Kwiatek

[ZachariasX]

Good thing you like it Turban. Despite all, I also think it is worth the money.

[Gump]

this thread was obviously created by turban to give his opinion of the plane.....heh heh....sure is a lot of disagreement of opinion for sure.

.

what im wondering is how to separate opinion from 'actual' fact. ... personally, I have a tendency to 'make do with what I have' and may tend to overlook valid shortcomings that need to be addressed and improved on things. I have found this much in life. sometimes it helps me (as you can imagine), sometimes I have been criticized for not 'feeding back info' that would help improve something. what this has helped me understand is that learning how to utilize something in its current state does not mean that I have validated or justified it. for instance, I can make a pair of pants from a potato sack, but that doesn't mean those pants are comparable to a pair of levi's. so, when asked to 'evaluate' my potato sack pants, I may reply from a point of view that is trying to find the value of the resource as is, rather than from a criticism of what it could be. simple to understand but, sometimes, hard to remember.

.

so this is turban's chance to give HIS opinion. that doesn't mean his opinion is the gospel truth (he doesn't say that anywhere that I know of). it doesn't mean that other's opinions are invalidated if they disagree. his conclusion will be of his own experience evaluated by his own understanding. we all should get that liberty, albeit in expectation of challenge, disagreement or affirmation.

.

obviously, a statement like "it's a flying brick" or "its NOT a flying brick" is merely a personal opinion of the game FM. turbans' opinion is that it's not, others opinion is that it is.

.... I know I sound like blah blah blah...but my point is that it is not always that easy for us to discern or realize what is opinion and what is fact (and wether they agree or not), but we all should be able to express our opinions in the hopes of the company of considerate responses, even if we appear to be blithering idiots to someone else. how many of us experienced folks have had to eat crow at sometime in the past? (raises hand).

.

but, anyone whose lived knows that disagreements can cause tempers to flare.... just ...need...to....step back....and.......rethink a.....considerate response........  glad the moderators are considerate of this and patient. getting everything shut down results in our running around without resolution.  just saying lets keep the discussion, though passionate, civil and alive. we are all learning something (except for me - I already know everything).

Edited September 6, 2016 by Gump

[Trooper117]

Think I will just enjoy it's great sounding original engine for a few minutes
 

[Turban]

I think a "fact" that is always overlooked is that many people are not very good. 

 

Too often they will blame the plane over themselves.

 

You can do many things with the FW. It's actually a ton of fun. 

 

 

My biggest and almost only struggle online is that I'm often completely outnumbered over POI. You know, I see many people every day who can't find enemies, don't know where to go....Or just take off. Yet they'll probably tell me the FW is nerfed. 

 

Yes this thread is about giving a practical opinion of the FW after a tour in it (still 3 weeks to go).  If people only want to come here and repeat over and over again that the plane is porked, they should creat their own thread.

[WWChunk]

Pages and pages and pages ... can I make an attempt to sum it up?

 

Tone down the stall.

 

That's all.

 This…x1,000,000

[Turban]

The infamous stall happens what.. every 3 hours? And everytime I was greedy and/or sloppy. E.g, the target is getting out my line of sight so I pull hard to keep it.

 

50% of the time, it fixes itself. 50% of the time you need to fix it. Do it under 500meters and you're probably dead yeah. But what WWII plane can go into a spin under 500m?

 

The way I see it, the stall is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.Plus, this stall is in the literature.

Remove it and people will point something else to blame.

[Turban]

Hey I'm thinking, one thing we can do since I have the plane now.

Show us a video of that stall so I can reproduce it without a doubt. Then we see how long it takes to get out. So we can make a conclusion whether or not this stall is so bad..

 

Remember, this is a "practical" thread. Videos with the stall and discussing those is great. Starting a theory war like in others threads isn't.

 

Nothing but ingame stuff for now. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Turban

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

I think a "fact" that is always overlooked is that many people are not very good.    Too often they will blame the plane over themselves.

One of the biggest misconceptions you can have. I know plenty of competitive people, who are killing stuff with ease in every plane, be it Lagg3 or I16. It's just populist nonsense to claim, that most people who are complaining about the 190 do it, because they are not good with it. If you'd really read what a lot of them have to say, you'd know this. There are already very many posts about what seems wrong, often backed by sources.

Almost all of the people who regularly post about the 190 are very competitive pilots. But i guess it's way easier to discredit them just calling them "not very good", instead of really discussing about the problem. Pathetic 

[Irgendjemand]

One of the biggest misconceptions you can have. I know plenty of competitive people, who are killing stuff with ease in every plane, be it Lagg3 or I16. It's just populist nonsense to claim, that most people who are complaining about the 190 do it, because they are not good with it. If you'd really read what a lot of them have to say, you'd know this. There are already very many posts about what seems wrong, often backed by sources.

Almost all of the people who regularly post about the 190 are very competitive pilots. But i guess it's way easier to discredit them just calling them "not very good", instead of really discussing about the problem. Pathetic 

this. Id love to know Turbans statistics for the time he flew FW.

 

Overall flighttime

kills

deaths

frustrated rage clientquits

...

...

 

[Aap]

 

 

this. Id love to know Turbans statistics for the time he flew FW.

 

Turban's stats are very impressive actually: Fw 190 

His stats from previous month were even more impressive though: Mig-3

[Irgendjemand]

nice. Respect. Must be everyone else that talks humbuk then:P

I bet he has some explosives under his turban he throws everytime he gets close to big crowds eh:)

Edited September 7, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Turban]

One of the biggest misconceptions you can have. I know plenty of competitive people, who are killing stuff with ease in every plane, be it Lagg3 or I16. It's just populist nonsense to claim, that most people who are complaining about the 190 do it, because they are not good with it. If you'd really read what a lot of them have to say, you'd know this. There are already very many posts about what seems wrong, often backed by sources.

Almost all of the people who regularly post about the 190 are very competitive pilots. But i guess it's way easier to discredit them just calling them "not very good", instead of really discussing about the problem. Pathetic 

 

Then tell them to show us a video of the stall ingame so we can see what's up in the game and discuss it.

 

The "problem" needs to be identified ingame right ? So let's do that. I don't see it. But people are welcome to show me. 

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Well, thats one way to put the things. 

 

I am personally curious how do you handle your FW Turban ? It's not hard to spot that you know what you are doing and you do it well, so possibly you could share some advice to the rest on how to handle that aircraft ? 

[Irgendjemand]

Well, thats one way to put the things. 

 

I am personally curious how do you handle your FW Turban ? It's not hard to spot that you know what you are doing and you do it well, so possibly you could share some advice to the rest on how to handle that aircraft ? 

Looked a bit deeper - actually the stats are not really impressive. every second sortie the aircraft was lost. I can go to Berloga and make hundreds of kills per round TnBing like mad while dying all the time. That does say nothing about the aircraft, nor my skills. His stats only say he flies a lot and does so so OK.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

 

 

 

In any case, if Turban feels ok with sharing any tips how to handle or how not to handle 190, it would be nice to hear them.

[Irgendjemand]

 

 

 

 

 

In any case, if Turban feels ok with sharing any tips how to handle or how not to handle 190, it would be nice to hear them.

I wasnt saying I am awesome. Just that he isnt either.

And for the record. I care shaite if i make lots of kills in a game as long as i have fun. What i care for is suceeding in things that matter. Life, Job and familiy are just some of them:P

Oh and while I am at it i can tell you what will come:

 

1. Dont fly alone

2. Stay fast

3. Stay high

4. Dont turn

5. Only engage on own terms

 

There simply isnt anything else that can be shared that make this crate a non brick. Period.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

I must say that the stats do look good. I´m sure Turban knows what he is doing and that he is an exceptional pilot

 

However Gump makes a very valid point.

 

 

 

I can make a pair of pants from a potato sack, but that doesn't mean those pants are comparable to a pair of levi's. so, when asked to 'evaluate' my potato sack pants, I may reply from a point of view that is trying to find the value of the resource as is, rather than from a criticism of what it could be. simple to understand but, sometimes, hard to remember.

 

I think Turban stating his impression of the plane and discussions about the modeled realism are 2 totally different things. Turban even says, that he likes the plane because he does not feel as superior to VVS planes in it, as in the bf109.

 

What can we conclude from the stats though?

 

IMHO, FW 190 stats, as has been pointed out, should not be looked at alone. You should compare how he does in a 190 compared to how he did on the VVS side. As for now I can only see that his stats and K/D ratio did not increase but rather decreased. This might be due to problems adapting to the plane, but Turban didn´t sound like he had any trouble with this.

 

So now that he went from a supposedly inferior airplane (Mig 3, Yak etc..) fighting superior bf 109s, to getting into a 190 fighting - in comparison to the 109- again inferior VVS planes, his stats get worse???

 

I´ll leave it up to you to draw the conclusion...

[Stig]

Well, he has so far some 25 hrs in the Fw 190, whereas he perhaps has been flying the Mig3 for months. It's probably a little earty to draw any conclusions from the stats alone.

[Turban]

Can we not make this about stats now?

 

Yes I lose my aircraft. You see, I'm not worried about stats. I'm still learning the plane anyway I try things sometimes just to see if that works. Sometimes they dont.

 

Many times I was outnumbered, sometimes in crazy fashion. Germans are also very good at sitting back and picking easy targets. I don't do that. I go and play the mission, for the team.

 

I got as many "assists" in one week than in a whole VVS month . You know what it is? It's german """""teammates""""" who go for my dying prey while I deal with the others healthy russians.

 

The 109 are very aware of their stats and create an awfully bad imbalance in the team. Either you sit back and wait like them or..you get used as bait.

 

 

yesterday..  we had tanks to protect... under clouds... the place is crawling with russians... I ask for help... once...twice.. I keep insisting.. after like 20 minutes some guy ask what altitute they were... he was probably at 6k waiting so see one.... what can you do ? I probably got shot down. I rarely get shot down in a 1vs1. And if it happens it's cause my pilot or my elevator rods get snipped in 1 shot.

 

 

Anyway... stats don't tell everything. People with real experience will know that. If you play for the team .... you'll take more than one for the team...

 

The FW 190 is absolutely not at fault. In a good team with good people... now that would be nice to see...

 

So that's all I have to say about stats.

I'm still waiting for the stall videos so we can talk about that.

 

 

 

Edit. 

 

 

Looked a bit deeper - actually the stats are not really impressive. every second sortie the aircraft was lost. I can go to Berloga and make hundreds of kills per round TnBing like mad while dying all the time. That does say nothing about the aircraft, nor my skills. His stats only say he flies a lot and does so so OK.

 

What's your name on WoL ?

Edited September 7, 2016 by Turban

[Trinkof]

Is the stats discussion on WoL supposed to be a proof that the plane is underperforming IRL, ... Because, it might be very obvious to some of us, but apparently not for everyone when I read some comments :

 

Flight condition, missions.. Pilot behaviour on WOL has absolutely nothing in common with real conditions... Some server (72ag) might "simulate" real air war a little bit better, but even those are far from reality... As for berloga, are people really using this server to judge on quality of FM compared to historical stats?

 

Public servers, as fun as they are, are just a group of pilot with no fear, no engine failures, no fuel shortage, who learn from death and each one of them having most probably fought more combat in 1 month than real pilots in their career .

 

Comparing kills in game with real historical stats is an absolute non sense.

 

On the topic, I also give a try for a tour on the FW, not this week cause of vacations, but starting next week, this will be my bird as long as it does not interfere with my clan activities.

 

S!

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Gump,

 

I was able to watch your video and I'm afraid I'm with Zlatan on this one. The Yak came in with a ton of E over you and consistently closed the gap. He probably dived down on you to have that initial E. He is considerably more maneuverable than you up to about 475-500 kph. He didn't maneuver much while he was above that speed and only had to NOT burn his E to continue closing.

 

Speculating here, but he probably closed everything up (rads/oil) to stay fast down low and boiled his engine a bit to stay with you in the weeds. Even though you built up speed it was just not fast enough to overcome his initial E advantage. He can't stay at speed forever down low but it takes a while to burn off that initial E advantage and he got really close. You didn't have the time, distance or altitude to really build any separation. You were also maneuvering quite a bit, burning small amounts of E, and he just has to keep his nose in your general vicinity to keep his advantage.

 

It does seem a little straight forward. He had a big E advantage and only had to work to maintain it while you attempted to maneuver and accelerate. It was just a bounce but the outcome was not unexpected.

 

Murf

[LuftManu]

Gump,

 

 He is considerably more maneuverable than you up to about 475-500 kph.

 

Really? Wrong.

FW 190 surfaces should be more responsive than the Yak ones. Period. and that affects agility.

Edited September 7, 2016 by ManuV

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Really? Wrong.

FW 190 surfaces should be more responsive than the Yak ones. Period. and that affects agility.

In game. And with flaps and elevator authority at moderate speeds it is pronounced.

Edited September 7, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[JtD]

My stats always looked good when I was in a plane with good speed and firepower. I'd do well on a dogfight server with the Fw190 as it is now, even if the aircraft would explode every time I stall. Being successful with it doesn't fix the errors in the FM, it just shows that speed and firepower are very far up in the list of the most important combat aircraft parameters.

 

So I guess it would be interesting to know what Turban or anyone else thinks about the aircraft, but it wouldn't be very telling if you looked at stats to judge the aircraft.

Edited September 7, 2016 by JtD

[LuftManu]

In game. And with flaps and elevator authority at moderate speeds it is pronounced.

I didn´t know about this, my bad.

 

But is like this in real life? What the?

[BSS_Sniper]

Turban, on 07 Sept 2016 - 04:42, said:

Can we not make this about stats now?

 

Yes I lose my aircraft. You see, I'm not worried about stats. I'm still learning the plane anyway I try things sometimes just to see if that works. Sometimes they dont.

 

Many times I was outnumbered, sometimes in crazy fashion. Germans are also very good at sitting back and picking easy targets. I don't do that. I go and play the mission, for the team.

 

I got as many "assists" in one week than in a whole VVS month . You know what it is? It's german """""teammates""""" who go for my dying prey while I deal with the others healthy russians.

 

The 109 are very aware of their stats and create an awfully bad imbalance in the team. Either you sit back and wait like them or..you get used as bait.

 

 

yesterday..  we had tanks to protect... under clouds... the place is crawling with russians... I ask for help... once...twice.. I keep insisting.. after like 20 minutes some guy ask what altitute they were... he was probably at 6k waiting so see one.... what can you do ? I probably got shot down. I rarely get shot down in a 1vs1. And if it happens it's cause my pilot or my elevator rods get snipped in 1 shot.

 

 

Anyway... stats don't tell everything. People with real experience will know that. If you play for the team .... you'll take more than one for the team...

 

The FW 190 is absolutely not at fault. In a good team with good people... now that would be nice to see...

 

So that's all I have to say about stats.

 

I'm still waiting for the stall videos so we can talk about that.

 

 

 

Edit. 

 

 

 

What's your name on WoL ?

 

That isn't what happened yesterday. You got shot down because you were low and alone. You might have said something ONCE about being in the area you were covering. The guy at 6k was me and I was covering multiple targets. Don't blame others for your mistakes. Also, I got two kills on that specific sortie.

[StG2_Manfred]

Well well well !!

 

Big day I got the FW 190. 

 

I've actually always been a big LW fan. For some reason I ended up enjoying flying VVS more on BOS. Something about WOL russian team being more fun and engaging. I mostly fly on WOL, rarely solo, so team spirit matters. Also the Mig 3 is sexy AF. I feel like I'm flying a Hot Road. The sound, the looks.. 

Anyway. Didn't feel one bit in a hurry to get a german plane. But now I got the FW. That's what sales are for I guess.

 

I created this thread because, well, the others are locked or simply have their own thing going on.

 

Obviously this thread is about giving an opinion on the FW 190, since I'm supposed to be a big LW hater and pro FW 190-nerf.

 

We'll see how it goes. I will fly the next WOL tour (1month) with the FW 190. 

 

My first impression : Coming from the Mig 3, the FW 190 is a sweet lamb, it flies like a dream. Performances are very good. Weapons are ludicrous. It takes hits like no other fighter.

 

Only thing I struggle with is the view. I'll have to adapt to those bars. Not having a track Ir makes bars the bane of my existence. It'll be ok I'm sure.

 

I could already give an opinion now, but I feel it'll be better to give it with a full tour under my belt. 

 

I think it will turn out that the FW 190 is far from being the unflyable mess people claim it to be.

 

I'll be back 

This is what you said starting this thread. And multiple times you blamed others not able to fly this uber plane correctly. Now it seems you already crawl back and get more and more silence, or speaking about team play and so on. Please now just show how uber this plane is and show it with video evidence or stats (you claimed this multiple times). You were among the big mouths, so it shouldn't be a problem for you. I proved it a couple of months against one of fhe same thinking guys (I used the Yak and he had the 190) I'm ready to do this test with you again!

 

What I see in this thread is that you fail with your statements, nothing else. So pls prove me wrong or you are doomed (and also this "sim"). Hard words,I know, but the truth.

 

Manfred

[Ace_Pilto]

The infamous stall happens what.. every 3 hours? And everytime I was greedy and/or sloppy. E.g, the target is getting out my line of sight so I pull hard to keep it.

 

So it didn't fly well when you flew it badly and it flew well when you flew it well. The same could be said of anything, it's not very telling about the specific aircraft. If I burn my toast it tastes bad but that's not saying that the bread model I'm using is inclined to burn more than it should, only that my user settings on the toaster are wrong.

 

The Bf-109, Yak and La-5 all hold their energy very well in game when kept co-ordinated and the 190 should be better than all three of these because of its' mass, acceleration into a dive and comparatively clean aerodynamics but it isn't. It's a mediocre (usable) energy fighter when it should be a very good one for the time. It's not the best energy fighter in the game and thus it doesn't live up to the real thing.

 

However, with all of these things said and done we should take a reality check, not many people I see fly it fast enough. Probably because it's hard to line up a shot at 6-700kph which is what you should be aiming for a lot of the time in the 190, and this is where more than half of the problems and complaints come from. Some people have unrealistic expectations, bad control setups or the just plain have no idea what they are doing and a lot of opinions to back it up, I'll grant you that and we can probably write off 75% of complaints as being nonsense. These mainly revolve around the fact that the 190 has a tricky accelerated stall but it has this characteristic because it should have it. The problem is that our 190 has a very deadly one, the behaviour is too exaggerated to be credible. I should be able to ease off the 'G' and have the aircraft settle provided I act in time. Our 190 doesn't give you that time, it tries as hard as it can to chuck you upside-down and into a flat spin so that part of the FM is questionable because it simulates me doing the wrong thing (Continuing to pull 'G') when I'm doing the right thing. Apart from that it just doesn't "sit" in the air right at its' optimal operational airspeeds, it gimbals around too much this makes it it's too draggy to be the energy fighter it is supposed.

 

The tweaks are slowly paying dividends though, at least I think they are and I hope that 1CGS aren't burning effigies of the 190 or throwing darts at a picture of it in their office yet, but I wouldn't blame them if they were. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Hear, hear!!

[Max_Damage]

So it didn't fly well when you flew it badly and it flew well when you flew it well. The same could be said of anything, it's not very telling about the specific aircraft. If I burn my toast it tastes bad but that's not saying that the bread model I'm using is inclined to burn more than it should, only that my user settings on the toaster are wrong.

 

The Bf-109, Yak and La-5 all hold their energy very well in game when kept co-ordinated and the 190 should be better than all three of these because of its' mass, acceleration into a dive and comparatively clean aerodynamics but it isn't. It's a mediocre (usable) energy fighter when it should be a very good one for the time. It's not the best energy fighter in the game and thus it doesn't live up to the real thing.

 

However, with all of these things said and done we should take a reality check, not many people I see fly it fast enough. Probably because it's hard to line up a shot at 6-700kph which is what you should be aiming for a lot of the time in the 190, and this is where more than half of the problems and complaints come from. Some people have unrealistic expectations, bad control setups or the just plain have no idea what they are doing and a lot of opinions to back it up, I'll grant you that and we can probably write off 75% of complaints as being nonsense. These mainly revolve around the fact that the 190 has a tricky accelerated stall but it has this characteristic because it should have it. The problem is that our 190 has a very deadly one, the behaviour is too exaggerated to be credible. I should be able to ease off the 'G' and have the aircraft settle provided I act in time. Our 190 doesn't give you that time, it tries as hard as it can to chuck you upside-down and into a flat spin so that part of the FM is questionable because it simulates me doing the wrong thing (Continuing to pull 'G') when I'm doing the right thing. Apart from that it just doesn't "sit" in the air right at its' optimal operational airspeeds, it gimbals around too much this makes it it's too draggy to be the energy fighter it is supposed.

 

The tweaks are slowly paying dividends though, at least I think they are and I hope that 1CGS aren't burning effigies of the 190 or throwing darts at a picture of it in their office yet, but I wouldn't blame them if they were. 

a lot of bullshit and stupid misconceptions.

 

Energy retention? uwat? guess which plane is the best energy wise? b17 because it has x4 powerful engines. Engine power = amount of energy received per unit of time.

 

Fw190 has trash wing loading and trash T:W ratio plus a large air drag and you want it to dive fast and be a dogfighter? 1+1=? it cant dive faster then a bf109 with excellent t:W and much lower drag sorry mate.

According to what exactly reason should fw190 be better in something then any of la5, yak1? it has similar speed at SL, worse climb, worse turning, worse acceleration.

 

600-700 kmh? lel horizontal top speed 550 at 0m.

 

Fw190 is so ez to down compared to a me109 whats so difficult to understand its a brick

 

now, its western front reputation was earned vs spitfire V which are SLOW. Slower then yak1 or la5 by a few dozen kmh.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Max_Damage

[Turban]

BSS_Sniper I do remember some exchange with you , maybe on that topic, maybe not, but you're not the one I'm refering to, his name finished by Metal something. Not to name, it's just that clearly you're not the one.

 

Then : low and alone? Lol. Yep... sometimes it has to be done. Sure I could join the 7k club and get easy safe kills (if they don't steal them) but.. like I said, I'm playing the mission. If you have Il2s, pe2s, bombing and vulching our stuff...and under clouds..

 

Guess what... someone has to go low and mâke them smoke.... I will not sit back and wait for someone else to do it for me so I can get an easy kill.  If I'm alone down low with the russians it's because germans won't come. They wait, and wait, and wait... 

 

In the end the german army got obliterated    Oh and I said it wayyyy more than once. like every 5/10 minutes for 1 hour

 

So.. back on the plane . 

It might be the most fun I've had in BOS. The FW is actually quite healthy, especially coming from the mig3.

 

I mean, it'll never compare to the 109. Maybe that's what people don't like. But coming from the mig 3, I really like it. I haven't been frustrated once since I got the FW. I get frustrated when I'm 1 vs 3, but nothing to do with the plane !!

 

I'm enjoying it a lot and love to learn it bits by bits.

 

Regarding the energy, speed loss.. It feels coherent. But... I wouldn't be surprised if it was losing a bit too much of those. Or if some other planes lose too little.. Too early to tell !

 

Edit : no video of the stall ?

Edited September 7, 2016 by Turban

[Gump]

Gump,

 

I was able to watch your video and I'm afraid I'm with Zlatan on this one. The Yak came in with a ton of E over you and consistently closed the gap. He probably dived down on you to have that initial E. He is considerably more maneuverable than you up to about 475-500 kph. He didn't maneuver much while he was above that speed and only had to NOT burn his E to continue closing.

 

Speculating here, but he probably closed everything up (rads/oil) to stay fast down low and boiled his engine a bit to stay with you in the weeds. Even though you built up speed it was just not fast enough to overcome his initial E advantage. He can't stay at speed forever down low but it takes a while to burn off that initial E advantage and he got really close. You didn't have the time, distance or altitude to really build any separation. You were also maneuvering quite a bit, burning small amounts of E, and he just has to keep his nose in your general vicinity to keep his advantage.

 

It does seem a little straight forward. He had a big E advantage and only had to work to maintain it while you attempted to maneuver and accelerate. It was just a bounce but the outcome was not unexpected.

 

Murf

thx for the feedback, murf (and all others). I have decided to believe just that and let it go. the reason I had trouble with holding to that eval in the 1st place was because, when the yak 1st started shooting at me, he had his flaps down and, when I kept my eye on him for a few seconds, he didn't seem to be gaining on me much. so, I figured, no turn necessary - just outrun. I kept looking back and it still looked like he wasn't gaining on me...until...after past the trees near the end, I turned to see if he hit the trees...saw a glitch in his flight (looked like he may have hit/bumped the trees)...then it looked like he gained on me VERY fast. after that...I was astounded at that, and it immediately made me suspicious...I pulled up and shut the throttle thinking he would zip past me, but he didn't.... that extremely fast closure near the end, while recalling recent cheating issues, was my concern.

 

I got as many "assists" in one week than in a whole VVS month . You know what it is? It's german """""teammates""""" who go for my dying prey while I deal with the others healthy russians.

 

The 109 are very aware of their stats and create an awfully bad imbalance in the team. Either you sit back and wait like them or..you get used as bait.

 

yesterday..  we had tanks to protect... under clouds... the place is crawling with russians... I ask for help... once...twice.. I keep insisting.. after like 20 minutes some guy ask what altitute they were... he was probably at 6k waiting so see one.... what can you do ? I probably got shot down. I rarely get shot down in a 1vs1. And if it happens it's cause my pilot or my elevator rods get snipped in 1 shot.

this sounds like the game I had my questionable video from. I think much of the frustration with lack of assistance arose as a result of 2 things: lack of population (there weren't very many ppl on the server that game) and; 2 locations that need attention (offense and defense). the teams were down to 1 goal each. in actuality, our team could have won (we lost) because our goal was easier to finish, but our resources were mostly involved in defending (including me and you) instead of offense (and our bomber pilot exited) while their team concentrated on the offensive. I died many times that game while attacking il2s and pe2s and getting shot by their support fighters at their last goal. I was in the same boat - mainly felt all alone. got hits without getting kills. a few times you called for help and I was on the way, but you died before I could arrive.

 

However, with all of these things said and done we should take a reality check, not many people I see fly it fast enough. Probably because it's hard to line up a shot at 6-700kph which is what you should be aiming for a lot of the time in the 190, and this is where more than half of the problems and complaints come from. Some people have unrealistic expectations, bad control setups or the just plain have no idea what they are doing and a lot of opinions to back it up, I'll grant you that and we can probably write off 75% of complaints as being nonsense. These mainly revolve around the fact that the 190 has a tricky accelerated stall but it has this characteristic because it should have it. The problem is that our 190 has a very deadly one, the behaviour is too exaggerated to be credible. I should be able to ease off the 'G' and have the aircraft settle provided I act in time. Our 190 doesn't give you that time, it tries as hard as it can to chuck you upside-down and into a flat spin so that part of the FM is questionable because it simulates me doing the wrong thing (Continuing to pull 'G') when I'm doing the right thing. Apart from that it just doesn't "sit" in the air right at its' optimal operational airspeeds, it gimbals around too much this makes it it's too draggy to be the energy fighter it is supposed.

.

it might be that the reason 190 pilots have trouble fighting fast is because the thing bleeds energy so fast, even with the slightest of surface input. someone commented about my video how I lost speed by slight maneuvers. if we don't have the planes reputed ability to dive faster and zoom faster than other planes, and acceleration is very slow, how is one supposed to fight 'fast' in this plane? 1 try at a bnz is the qual for fighting fast?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I usually get about three passes if I set it up right, before I have to bug out. Two if it's not that great of a set up on my part. But you also have to "git when the gittin' is good." Don't wait for a co-alt/co-E situation to develop. If you are turning circles hood to hood you are already behind the curve.

 

Also, don't be afraid to blow through the merge if the setup isn't good. Don't squander energy on a bad setup or highly aggressive Yak driver. Climb at 300 kph and reverse only when it is on your terms..............don't be greedy, don't get impatient, don't TNB, don't climb too steep. Remember you are looking to extend. You can hit him later on a better setup.

 

 The Fw, in it's current state, requires you to be extra patient and disciplined in ALL phases of your flight. More so than any other airframe in the game.

[Turban]

it might be that the reason 190 pilots have trouble fighting fast is because the thing bleeds energy so fast, even with the slightest of surface input. someone commented about my video how I lost speed by slight maneuvers. if we don't have the planes reputed ability to dive faster and zoom faster than other planes, and acceleration is very slow, how is one supposed to fight 'fast' in this plane? 1 try at a bnz is the qual for fighting fast?

 

If I was to choose one thing I'd like to look at, it's this. But like I said in a previous post, is it the FW that loses too much or the others that lose too little? Or is it really wrong? Too early to tell.

[Ace_Pilto]

Yeah it's hard to fight fast in the 190, mainly because it's easy for the other guy to make himself a hard target  All he needs is to know when to turn into you and roll out of your gunsight. In the 190 the other guy doesn't have to win to beat you, you end up defeating yourself by losing too much energy trying to get that kill shot. All he has to do is not get hit until you make a mistake or decide to fly somewhere else. You're just not going to get in many fights at 600kph with these early Russian fighters though, except for the La-5 maybe but not many people are brave enough to fly the La because it's 109 fodder for the same reason that a lot of people fail in the 190. It's not a 2 dimensional turning plane. Also because it's mainly low level fighting so you don't get to use the aircraft to its' best advantage very often.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Fw is the odd one out at the moment for its' FM. The other FM's seem very good to me, at least for the BoS planes that I own. The Bf-109 in particular is superb, it really demands a lot from you in general flying skill to get it around safely. I enjoy just flying circuits and doing touch and go landings in it, it's a real peach when you land on 3 points with no bounce. The Russian planes behave pretty much like I've seen described in books and such, underpowered but maneuverable and still able to put up a good fight. I'm growing to like the La-5 in particular even though I'm not very good with it.

[Fern]

 

What exactly are you trying to prove here? The yak pilot was terrible. Of course you can try to mix it up with yaks, but then you can only hope that the yak driver doesn't know what he's doing. I've been repeating this in other topics; when you commit into a fight vs more maneuverable fighters eg a yak, it's up to the yak pilot's skill level. If he's competent, you'll die simple as that. reverting back to the old Fw flight model would only make it easier to out-dogfight newbies, but once you run into a experienced pilot it's game over.

 

 

FlySabre, Baron_von_Zlatan just called you a horrible yak pilot.

 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/980544/?tour=14

 

The Yak's top speed is not that much lower than the Fw's, given that Gumps plane was damaged to some degree and we don't know where the other guy came from, I see nothing wrong in the video. Even if the Fw190 was modelled faster and/or the Yak slower, situations like that would occur.

 

Personally, I'd always watch from the enemies perspective, it gives a much better impression of what happened, both in terms of aircraft performance and piloting mistakes. Also, the fact that you're usually in front of the other guy when you're getting shot down, makes the other guys perspective much better for judging the overall situation.

 

The other guy (FlySabre) came from 2:41 on his low six. He thought it was the second IL2. So the yak didnt come from above him.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Uh, no. There are two Il2's until 3:17 when the Yak comes absolutely rocketing in with a fist full of E. Clearly it has dived in and is pulling up when he spots him.