So I got the FW 190

[Dr_Molem]

So, Turban, what's your thought ?

[LuftManu]

Is that so? In DCS, the 190D is the hardest plane to fly in combat, in the Mustang you can kill it off comerably easy. And the 109K is king of the hill. Everytime I go online you see loads of 109, many Mustangs and very few 190D. In the 190D, with full boost and throttle firewalled, it is hard to separate from the P51, even though IRL the P51 doesn't stand a chance following a chandelle.

 

We don't have perfection, but we aim for it. And at some point, thouse who have to do the legwork for it deserve a break...

In DCS the Dora is really well modeled. The online servers are full of 109 but the 109 there is a dogfigther, the 190 is a tactical figther. When you see a 190 online it must be a experten pilot and when flying in pairs is better than a pair of 109.

 

I really will like engagements against Spits and La5/7, in DCS you can really feel the plane with all of the switches, it will be fun for a La pilot to operate all of the levers and so on the Spit will be really fun to figth against it!

 

Also the cockpit layout and simplicity is really useful in a complex sim like DCS

Edited September 5, 2016 by ManuV

[ZachariasX]

 

 

2000hp is achieved with MW50 right?

 

Yes

[MiloMorai]

Yes, the aircraft won't physically follow all the way, but bullets will.   

2000hp is achieved with MW50 right? I don't own the game but I would presume that 150 grade fuel is modeled in the game as well. Cause otherwise, you know.....something something bias..

 

Nope, no 150PN fuel. Even the Spitfire IX is a 1943 model.

[ZachariasX]

 

 

In DCS the Dora is really well modeled. The online servers are full of 109 but the 109 there is a dogfigther, the 190 is a tactical figther. When you see a 190 online it must be a experten pilot and when flying in pairs is better than a pair of 109. Also the cockpit layout and simplicity is really useful in a complex sim like DCS

 

I didn't say it wasn't well modelled in general. I made this remark just because I noticed that when i went online as well as offline play. AFAIK in DCS, AI uses a simplified FM physics. It might be that AI gets as well a bit of an upper hand due to that.

[BMW801]

Can we have a 190 thread that doesn't get locked?

It has always been one of my favorite aircraft, and like many others posting here, I just want a realistic flight model.

I am genuinely interested in others thoughts and perceptions and the collective knowledge of this community is really impressive.

I don't post much, but I am interested in what other people flying this sim think.

I hope the discussions can remain civil because I like the FW 190 threads and I don't want any more of them locked.

If anyone has issues with someone, I wish they would stick to PM's or at least keep it civil and cordial, because among the arguing, there are a lot of interesting facts and opinions that filter through.

[ZachariasX]

Can we have a 190 thread that doesn't get locked?

 

It is a challenge, but one can always try.

 

 

I just want a realistic flight model.

 

Like everybody. It's not that we are asking for much, are we?

 

 

Starting of with buying the aircraft (as you did obviously ) is probably a great way to get the "simple" thing you and we are are asking for. As we have it now, it is a challenging plane to use successfully online. Same as the DCS Fw190 D9, as different as it might be from the A3 in this sim. So there is at least that consistency.

 

Z

[Max_Damage]

FW190 is so fun to fly. it feels like a torpedo with wings. it goes straight, crushes everything in its path

[Gump]

I know turban's been flying, give him some time.

.

I was flying the fw tonight, turban was flying it too, but take a look at this video...

.

I am rather curious about the ending.... you can see my display of terrible shooting - seems like maybe I just scare the enemy. anyways, I get caught and shot down (nothing new there). but it surprised me to get caught after running level at 550-560kph (you get a glimpse of the speedo near the end) for a while with my pursuer behind. tell me what you think. notice the speed at which he catches me after the trees at the end.

.

https://youtu.be/NuBmTQmCGwg

[LuftManu]

I know turban's been flying, give him some time.

.

I was flying the fw tonight, turban was flying it too, but take a look at this video...

.

I am rather curious about the ending.... you can see my display of terrible shooting - seems like maybe I just scare the enemy. anyways, I get caught and shot down (nothing new there). but it surprised me to get caught after running level at 550-560kph (you get a glimpse of the speedo near the end) for a while with my pursuer behind. tell me what you think. notice the speed at which he catches me after the trees at the end.

.

https://youtu.be/NuBmTQmCGwg

It happens to me all the time, I created a thread a few weeks before. The only thing I got it was I dove too steep. For your side nothing is wrong, just the SA, he maybe dove on you but in a straight level is strange.

Remember that in winter conditions the 190 is no faster than a Yak1

[150GCT_Veltro]

In those situation, you're died. There is no chances versus an average Yak-1 pilot. The only way to survive is to dive from 3.500m at least to the maximum speed, if Yak-1 doesn't laser you first. The surprise is how the FW now take soo much damage with a few shoots if not one only: pilot killed, blow-up, burning, totally lift lose ecc. ecc. a sort of turkey in a few words.

Edited September 6, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[150GCT_Veltro]

I was talking in general, how it's now online with FW.

[150GCT_Veltro]

We know about how it does stall now, but there is also something strange in DM or probably (better) in some weapons. Is not fine, not at all.

 

Actually this FW is good almost for nothing if not some jabo.

Edited September 6, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[Gump]

Whats so special about the ending? You were doing around 450 km/h at 400 meters when you got caught by surprise. What surprised me was that the guy flying 30 meters behind your tail didn't absolutely decimate you in seconds. You can't just push your nose down at that altitude and expect to pull out of shooting range when there's an enemy fighter that close behind you. No matter how superior diving capabilities your craft has. It just doesn't work that way. Furthermore, your engine was hit and your wing was damaged, slowing you down even more.

.

I didn't realize that a yak (or whatever it was) could catch a fw from following at 450kph (as you say when he began shooting) to 560kph. I didn't try to dive away - I was trying to wreck him in the trees. but he closes on me very quickly after the trees. I thought he may have hit the trees (saw a glitch when he went through the trees I thought) so I was surprised to see him close so fast afterwards. I pulled up and shut the throttle thinking he'd overshoot, but no - he just stayed on my tail.

.... very surprised to see one stay this close and even catch me, that's why I was asking.

./

so veltro, a yak can go level  that fast in winter?

[Gump]

zlatan, how do you speak to the raf reports as in kwiatek's post #71 and #72 in regards to the all around capabilities of the 190 (not just bnz)? were the Russian fighters that superior to the spitV?

[150GCT_Veltro]

zlatan, how do you speak to the raf reports as in kwiatek's post #71 and #72 in regards to the all around capabilities of the 190 (not just bnz)? were the Russian fighters that superior to the spitV?

 

Bingo.

[Gump]

...

Gump you seem to be in denial. “The earlier you admit to your mistakes, the more time you would have to learn and grow from them.” 

.

I think you are misunderstanding me in some way...I cant see how I am denying anything. if the yak/lag/mig is that fast I didn't know about it. I was asking a question of the community about something that seemed a bit unusual - in other words, I hadn't experienced something quite like this in all my flying of the FW, and ive outrun VVS fighters before. if there's a good explanation, then that's how it is.

btw, I had full expectation of getting in trouble in that mission, since my goal was to harass and slow those attack planes because the teams were down to one last goal each - I just needed to buy some time for our team. funny thing - turns out our bomber quit before the goal was destroyed heh heh. no mistake on my part except for the lousy shooting. I missed SO many shots in that map/game.

[Dr_Molem]

Even if the stall characteristics were fixed you'd still be using the same bounce tactics.

 

Really ? Are you sure of that ? 

 

https://youtu.be/CLlv-ryOADg?t=1s

https://youtu.be/kF9HGk8avhM?t=2m58s

Edited September 6, 2016 by Dr_Molem

[Aap]

 

 

you shouldn't need anyone to explain why there is nothing unusual when the case is so clear.

 

 

So you mean it is quite clear and normal that Russian fighters should be able to go at 560 km/h on ground level? Because that was the question Gump asked about, not about his maneuvering or mistakes before that. 

 

But to give my own wild guess to Gump's question, his enemy built his speed during diving and was able to keep it high enough for the time it took to shoot him down.

[Aap]

 

 

when you commit into a fight vs more maneuverable fighters eg a yak, it's up to the yak pilot's skill lev

 

Again, Zlatan, Gump did not ask why he can't win a turn fight against a Yak, he was asking how a Yak was able to close in on him at 560 km/h. 

[Gump]

kemp is correct about my question/intent. it seemed odd that the yak caught me, or stayed with me, like that. I was hoping it wasn't cheating. all is good. unless, of course, the 190 'should' be able to outrun a yak like that.

.

but, zlatan, it wasn't a matter of getting out of shooting range - he actually closed on me especially after the trees.

.

zlatan, did you notice my efforts were to harras the il2's? I had no intentions of doing anything other than that. I was surprised that it took that long for a yak to show up but, when it did, I just ran straight away.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Gump

[Aap]

 

 

Again, I already answered his question

 

 

Where exactly did you answer it? The question was about how a Yak is able to go faster than 560 km/h on ground level. If a Fw190 or any other plane is nosing down or up or doing pirouettes or whatever does not affect the Yak's ability to gain speed. It is the Yak itself that is able to affect how it is gaining speed. Understand the logic? So as a Yak is not able to get to 560 km/h with level flight on ground level, it must mean that the Yak built his speed by diving. 

 

 

I really can't tell if you guys are trolling or not.

 

Same here actually, not sure if you can't read or you are trolling. 

[Max_Damage]

If you cant win a yak1 in a fw190 then maybe.. just maybe yak1 is a better fighter? Why do you keep insisting on the opposite if practice shows a diffirent result?

[JtD]

The Yak's top speed is not that much lower than the Fw's, given that Gumps plane was damaged to some degree and we don't know where the other guy came from, I see nothing wrong in the video. Even if the Fw190 was modelled faster and/or the Yak slower, situations like that would occur.

 

Personally, I'd always watch from the enemies perspective, it gives a much better impression of what happened, both in terms of aircraft performance and piloting mistakes. Also, the fact that you're usually in front of the other guy when you're getting shot down, makes the other guys perspective much better for judging the overall situation.

[150GCT_Veltro]

Not true at all. You just need to know what you can and can't do with it. Same goes for any plane. It's a heavy fighter with good firepower and high speed maneuverability. How are you going to use those capabilities to your advantage vs light soviet fighters? By attacking with altitude advantage. Even if the stall characteristics were fixed you'd still be using the same bounce tactics.

 

I feel like people are having serious problems staying calm and disciplined when combating light and agile planes. You wouldn't engage a Fw-190 in a turnfight with a P-47 now would you? How is the situation in bos different?

Maybe the next theater brings some american heavies so that you can be on the side flying more agile fighters.

 

Gump you seem to be in denial. “The earlier you admit to your mistakes, the more time you would have to learn and grow from them.” 

 

We need to provide evidences ecc. ecc..

As i've said before, there is nothing more we can say here about this "unflyable pig" called FW-190. We can only wait for Spitfire Mk.Vb and Yak-1b, and see what will going on.

 

If Yak-1 was so better than FW-190, we'll see how it will be between Spitfire and Yak.

 

[Edited]

17. Spreading false or harmful information about the product is prohibited and will be deleted by forum administration. Claiming ignorance of the subject to justify harmful or obviously untrue info will not be tolerated.

Violations of this rule will result in the following:

 

Second offense - 3 days of the ban on entry

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by SYN_Haashashin

[Turban]

Sooo... can you guys please not derail this thread?  I haven't even really started posting yet.. Just be nice and don't go too far off topic (e.g DCS stuff)

 

Like I said in the beginning, I intend to built a solid opinion of the FW over time, and that takes...time. I need to learn the plane, and multiplayer is like a box of chocolate, so it takes time to encounter all sorts of situation and really see how they unravel.

 

Since some insist I'll share a few preliminary thoughts..

 

So far I'm very happy I got the FW 190. I think it's sad that it gets such a terrible rep, as it might put some people off from buying it (it's on sale ! ). I enjoy the vibe of the FW, and it might now be my favorite plane in the game, and make me fly german again. I never like the 109's numb personality that can do anything without too much thinking. It might be the best fighter in the game, but it never entertained me much.

 

The FW has a really nice feel to it. You can feel the "modern fighter" design, pilot's life quality is great, controls are super smooth, it has lots of ammo to play with..

Anyway, love the feeling, will definitely keep flying it. It's a shame it's not a plane you can always fly on WOL (missions restrictions)

 

I think the devs overall are doing an amazing job at creating this sim, it might not be perfect but once in a while I like to step back and think about the great quality of this sim.

 

Now regarding the plane's FM.. I think overall it's rather coherent. There isn't any obvious defect. It isn't "porked" by any mean. If I was to think about odd things, it wouldn't be the stall  Nothing to see there IMO. I don't even think about it when I fly. It rarely happens, when it does it's my fault, and it's not a death sentence. Of course if you screw it up at low level and don't do the right thing you'll die, but that's true of any plane. 

What would be interesting to me is the energy management. How much energy it loses, retains, gains, etc. Again, no obvious problem. If you do everything right, you get proper results. So it is coherent. But coherent doesn't necessarily means 100% accurate. If you do exactly what you need to do ASAP, you can outrun a yak for example. But if you take too long to establish top speed and don't keep it, the yak/lagg will catch up. They lose very little speed, a bit like the 109.

Do they over-perform or does the FW under-perform? Or is it correct? Really hard to tell for sure. Only the matrix's creator knows.

 

 

That's pretty much my preliminary opinion. With time maybe I'll pinpoint things to check and test.

 

But for now at least, this isn't about in-depth analysis of the FM. Don't want self proclaimed aeronautic experts to come ruin this discussion.

 

This thread is about practical ingame experimenting.

[Aap]

 

 

The real question you should be asking is how a Fw-190 is able to sustain over 560 km/h despite a broken engine and heavy damage to both wings.

 

First of all, why should I be asking that, when it was already clearly visible in the video how it was done? The question was about Yak, where you could just take educated guesses, because you did not actually see in the video where he came from.

Second of all, I was not asking any questions. Gump was asking a question and I was trying to answer. With something more constructive than "you seem to be in denial", "there is nothing unusual", "case is so clear" or "you should be asking", without even trying to answer the actual question. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

No but that's the point. That's NOT how it's online with Fw. The only thing is that the stall characteristics are a bit harsh other than that everything is fine.

Completely with you on this assessment! On my phone or I'd +1 you here.

Edited September 6, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

 

"And indeed once yak3 and la7 arrive it will be a turkey shoot. Pretty much like what happens now but reversed."

 

But here we disagree. We should get G10's and Dora's to counter the late model Yak's and La's. Not to mention K4's. So it should remain fairly competitive overall.

[JG13_opcode]

.

I didn't realize that a yak (or whatever it was) could catch a fw from following at 450kph (as you say when he began shooting) to 560kph. I didn't try to dive away - I was trying to wreck him in the trees. but he closes on me very quickly after the trees. I thought he may have hit the trees (saw a glitch when he went through the trees I thought) so I was surprised to see him close so fast afterwards. I pulled up and shut the throttle thinking he'd overshoot, but no - he just stayed on my tail.

.... very surprised to see one stay this close and even catch me, that's why I was asking.

./

so veltro, a yak can go level that fast in winter?

You should fly the Yak, I really like it.

 

It'll do 570 indicated or thereabouts at low altitudes without too much coaxing.

[Max_Damage]

"And indeed once yak3 and la7 arrive it will be a turkey shoot. Pretty much like what happens now but reversed."

 

But here we disagree. We should get G10's and Dora's to counter the late model Yak's and La's. Not to mention K4's. So it should remain fairly competitive overall.

only K4 ccan do something. g6/10/14 are subpar and d9 is a brick just like what this one is

 

k4 is something like a brick-ier la7 which doesnt lose power above 1500m

Edited September 6, 2016 by Max_Damage

[Irgendjemand]

[edited]

 

Some interface that could communicate with apps like tacview would also be nice and help the devs to optimize and us to understand.

If we had access to such data that comes directly from the gameengine we could compare ourselves and there would not be any allegations of BIAS anymore.

Only proven facts.

 

17. Spreading false or harmful information about the product is prohibited and will be deleted by forum administration. Claiming ignorance of the subject to justify harmful or obviously untrue info will not be tolerated.
Violations of this rule will result in the following:
 
First offense- 1 day of the ban on entry

Edited September 6, 2016 by SYN_Haashashin

[Dr_Molem]

only K4 ccan do something. g6/10/14 are subpar and d9 is a brick just like what this one is

 

k4 is something like a brick-ier la7 which doesnt lose power above 1500m

 

Thank you, you do not need to add anything to show your ideas behind FW-190 and why this plane is "fine" in BOS in your opinion.

 

The fact you say that Dora is a brick, sadly for you, reveals your nonexistant skills.   A fighter can do everything better than an other, but it will still be worse because "bad at sustained turns", i'm wrong ? 

[C6_iceheart]

Fw 190 was pain for developers since relase.  There were many issues - bad cocpit bar visiblilty,  wrong performance ( expecially climb rate) , bad control response at higher speed. And since relase i remember Han which claimed that everything is correct with these plane .  Then changes has came  - some good some bad -   so final result is similar as in the begining -  still plane is porked.  Some things were corrected but other were porked.   Still i doubt that climb rate is correct according German specification,  wing polar was changed now plane behave like very draggy plane with very bad stall characterisitic.  If we take other hand overperforming Russian planes like Yak-1 ( too high speed at medium to high alts, too good climb rate) then BOS A-3 dont looks good.

 

IRL  A-3 was much faster then Yak-1  ( at high alt even about 100 kph) ,   got better climb rate about 2-3 m/s at emergency power, better dive, better roll rate and firepower.  Yak-1 was only better in sustained turn rate. It was similar situation like with Spitfire MKVB  but Yak-1 was even worse then Spitfire MKVB.   SPit MK VB was faster at altitude, got better climb rate, firerpower, maximum dive speed and much better turn rate then Yak-1.  And Fw 190 A-3 totaly dominated Spit MKVB at Western Front.

 

For these which dont belive that Fw 190 was good dofgihter i think they should read Johhnie Johnson ( SPitfre ACE) story from dogfight with Fw 190 over Dipee :

Pity that only simulator which i think objective represents Fw 190 flight charactersitic and performacne is DCS Fw 190

+100 

[L3Pl4K]

This thread is about practical ingame experimenting.

Ok, maybe a comrade and you can make some experiments. Maybe you find out which aircraft, has the best dive speed. In real life the Focke should be better than the 109 for example.

http://www.beim-zeugmeister.de/zeugmeister/index.php?id=24&L=1

Page 3 im Sturzflug.

During Dive

 

The comparisons were done with combat power settings and a diveangle of aproximately 20% starting at a height of around 2000m. Result was that the FW 190 A2 could gain several hundred meters of separation. The steeper and longer the dive was the bigger the gained separation. Remains to be mentioned that the FW 190 A 2 reached its topspeed slower than the BF 109 F4.

 

I make some experiments with comrades and the Focke can not gain some seperation.

[PatrickAWlson]

Pages and pages and pages ... can I make an attempt to sum it up?

 

Tone down the stall.

 

That's all.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

only K4 ccan do something. g6/10/14 are subpar and d9 is a brick just like what this one is

 

k4 is something like a brick-ier la7 which doesnt lose power above 1500m

I'm with you on the G6 and G14. They will be somewhat brickish as that is historically accurate. The G-10 and K4, however, moved the needle back to the German side of the equation slightly for their style of fighting (ie. staying out of the weeds). The Dora also is no slouch and had superior performance above the weed level as well. But, this is probably for another thread.

 

Fix the stall......................just trying to get back on topic     

[Turban]

Geez....

[303_Kwiatek]

Fact is that actally modeled in Bos Fw 190 A-3 is just flying brick to fly straight and run. RL plane was also capable dogfighter and fighter plane maby not as good like more lighter planes in sustained turn but got other adventages and still its flying characteristic could allow it to also dogfight other planes. Not only German pilots mention these but also British aces and test pilots. For some reason Russians dont aprove these. Strange cause im sure Spitfire Mk Vb at 12 lbs boost got better performance then Yak1 69 series. And even British confrirm that Fw 190 A3 eat Spit5 alive

[SYN_Haashashin]

Okay guys, I dont want to lock another topic about the 190 cus of things that have nothing to do with the topic discussion.

 

Just cleaned all non related stuff.