Ju 52. What will we do with this plane?

[Trooper117]

Doesn't really need to be any kind of match up really... it just may be that we already have an AI Ju52 in game, plus a flyable Yak 1... so it won't be like starting an aircraft from scratch, and they may be able to get them out to the fans within the time frame mentioned.

 

Mind you, that's purely an assumption

[Ace_Pilto]

It's more to do with the sales match up as a package with the desired mentality being, "I want to support the game so why not buy both?" not the match up of aircraft in particular.

 

These premium planes are a chance for the studio to make around 33% or so of what they get on selling the base theater and aircraft so more premium sales is better right? It's certainly better value for the studio and that's the only practical incentive to buy them. We really, in the interest of transparency, need to dismantle the idea that there's anything explicitly premium about these aircraft. None of them are particularly noteworthy beyond their subjective appeal and having the arbitrary "premium" marketing tag affixed to them by ICGS, they're just aircraft and each has their own appeal on that basis. The MiG-3, Bf-109G-2 or the Yak-1 could just as easily have been a premium plane as the MC-202 or P-40 so the pattern to date has been to sell two fighters of some renown because these will sell well. I think it would benefit 1CGS more to be more transparent about this because the label alludes to a competitive edge in the wider context of the gaming industry and even though no such claim is made, it should be clearer that buying premium is a show of support for future development, not an pay to win advantage.

 

The Ju-52 is a game-changer in this regard, it's a niche within a niche, it's something that's never really been catered for in any combat flight sim to my knowledge, not deliberately and especially not as a showpiece.

 

It's not a glamorous aircraft or something that will give you a competitive edge so full points to ICGS for including it so prominently, that's a bold move and an indication of their dedication to thoroughness but I think they need to make more of what will be possible with the JU-52 it in for people to buy it. You'll always get the vocal forum "yes men" who immediately jump on anything that the studio makes but the reality is that the JU is a hard sell to a crowd that mainly likes fighters. There's not much glory to be had in lumbering through sleet at 200kph in a 50kph headwind while a bunch of drunken Landsers sing "Lili Marlene" in the back only to be lit up by katyushas when you land or tipping your plane over in a shell crater and having to join the bloody Wehrmacht because some Hurensohn Sipo NCO press gangs you into an infantry unit. (I'd pay for THAT DLC and, frankly, the more I think about the JU-52 the more I like it but I'm a plane nerd and the challenges of aviation alone are enough to interest me let alone adding combat to the mix.)

 

I'm guessing the problem is that we're running out of "Top Gun" axis fighters for the 1941-42 period beyond more bloody 109 variants. There's the IAR 80 but that's pretty obscure and then there are some Fiat designs like the G-50 and CR-42, you could probably get some legs out of those, especially the CR-42 but these aircraft are not "Top Guns" if you know what I mean. They're "also rans".

 

(For those of you who don't participate in the 'Sport of Kings' and "also ran" is a horse that never wins any races. I find horse racing equally repugnant and exhilarating myself.)

 

On a side note, the IAR-80 is a very unique aircraft that saw long service through continued development of the airframe from 1941 up until the fall of the Romanian Air Force and, if I was going out on a limb with a "premium", I'd have chosen that aircraft over the JU-52 unless I had some pretty epic content planned for old Auntie Junkers and that's what I'm wondering, is there some bombshell in the offing waiting to be dropped?

 

As for the axis fighters diversity problem, does Finland await?

 

There's a whole stockpile of lend-lease, hand-me-down rubbish like the Gladiator, Hurricane, MS-406, Curtiss Hawk and various antiquated Fokker designs waiting above the Gulf of Finland to be harvested. (My personal prejudice is very pronounced here because I always get stuck flying these crazy underdog junkers for some reason and I have a tongue in cheek derision for them. Don't get your knickers in a knot if I called out your favorite plane, the chances are I've spent more bloody time in it than you have, back in Il-2 1946, getting my arse shot off because a server was stacked one-sided and I felt obliged to at least offer some competition and semblance of fair play)

Edited August 29, 2016 by VA_JimmyBlonde

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

The Ju-52 just like the Yak was a logical choice because all ressources required were partially availabel already. Creating an aircraft from scratch takes much more time spend on ressearch, evaluation, modeling, implementation and testing.

[Trooper117]

To be honest, I'd rather have the Ju-52 over the Yak... It is probably the plane that would draw me back into MP.

I have always liked that 'underdog' feeling whenever I flew online, even if this one is a rather large and slow one... plus, flying the underdog always gave me a bigger sense of satisfaction if I made it back alive...

 

That said, I have always intimated that I would buy any aircraft they put out regardless of theatre, as long as it served in WWII

[Ace_Pilto]

Amen to that.

 

You can't get much more underdog than a JU-52!

[SCG_Neun]

 We are going to use it to drop leaflets mainly, and of course fly in some snacks and finger food for our troops there in Stalingrad.

[Lusekofte]

Well it need willingness among 109 jockeys for anything it does. But I see many opurtunities for fun in this plane

[Neil]

I am a bomber guy. I dropped bombs during 10 years in an virtual squadron on our beloved Oleg Il2.

But I am tired of that. I want to try something else. something different, and I always loved the Ju52

That is why I am so happy and so excited to fly it.

I am even more excited to see how this plane is popular and wanted in this forum!

Of course It needs new gameplay objectives. I am sure it will be done.

[VBF-12_Stele]

Perfect plane for when you just got off of work during the weekdays; only have time to do a quick sortie (supply run, etc) while too tired to actually dogfight or bomb anything before heading to bed.

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

I agree with the dude above

[Monostripezebra]

Well it need willingness among 109 jockeys for anything it does. But I see many opurtunities for fun in this plane

 

You´re absolutely right.. I´ve just been back from my trip to the future and one year from now it looked like this:

 

Wings of Junkersderpity 2017: 40 blue players still lose about every match to 30 red players. While thirty 109F4 lonewulfe at 4k, ten unescorted junkers creep in an antsknee-hight pretending to drop beer crates into stalingrad before beeing shot down by sturmoviks... Red Il2s shoot alternating at ground targets and junkers while crashing on take off and arguing in chat that the game is useless without a yak-9 and that the 1B is too slow. Drinkins still wins all matches singlehandedly by doing the world fastet one way bombing trips. Meanwhile all agree on the fact that the flightmodel realism definatly needs to be upped, because plane XYZ is like tooootally unrealistc and true WW2 pilots said it could hoover while supercruising and chute shooting is still bad.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Dr_Zeebra

[Lusekofte]

This is how I see the axis side, hmm there is a pattern here, but I see your frustration and felt it. This is why I seldom fly in gps servers where drinkins is. He is a very good divebomber you have to give him that. I just do not see how a man not getting fed up spending so many hours doing the same

[Trooper117]

You are all talking about MP... remember, there are many, many people who only play SP too.

Perhaps transport missions will be integrated into the campaign... I for one would welcome it.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I hope we can have new JU52 models in the future or maybe fields mod ROF style. 

 

 

[No601_Swallow]

You are all talking about MP... remember, there are many, many people who only play SP too.

Perhaps transport missions will be integrated into the campaign... I for one would welcome it.

 

Without doubt. The challenge of piloting, navigating and landing an aeroplane across hostile territory and in perhaps adverse weather conditions has its own rewards, perhaps different from the MP-focussed insta-kill-gasms of dogfighting, but valuable nevertheless. I would very much hope it'll be fully integrated into the "campaign", perhaps with its own set of Black-Six-authored hand-made missions! 

[Gambit21]

You are all talking about MP... remember, there are many, many people who only play SP too.

Perhaps transport missions will be integrated into the campaign... I for one would welcome it.

 

I'm not sure if there's anyone here who remembers the ol "Liberation Skies" Normandy campaign I created back in the day...but in anticipation

of future developments I've decided to get back into mission/campaign building after a long hiatus.

 

As soon as I have my head wrapped around this mission builder (and aside from some GUI teething issues I'm making good progress) I plan on creating

a short Ju52 single player campaign.

 

Most of the missions will be round trips, take off, deliver your stuff, maybe pick something up, fly back home.

I'll need a little more information about what is expected when as far as functionality with this plane, although I could use conditions/event triggers to still do quite

a bit even without cargo drops and such. "Picking something up"  might simply consist of taxiing to the right spot and waiting the right amount of time

for the condition to be met before taking off back home.

 

I have a few creative ideas for fun missions...right now I have my head down learning the mission builder.

The GUI functionality in that thing is pretty lacking.

[Plurp]

I will love him and pet him and call him George.

[Feathered_IV]

So, when we hit the Tab button and look at our transport score, is it best to express the points earned in tons or kilos?   Will the transport pilot's efforts even be recorded at all?

[No601_Swallow]

As soon as I have my head wrapped around this mission builder (and aside from some GUI teething issues I'm making good progress) I plan on creating

a short Ju52 single player campaign.

 

Most of the missions will be round trips, take off, deliver your stuff, maybe pick something up, fly back home.

I'll need a little more information about what is expected when as far as functionality with this plane, although I could use conditions/event triggers to still do quite

a bit even without cargo drops and such. "Picking something up"  might simply consist of taxiing to the right spot and waiting the right amount of time

for the condition to be met before taking off back home.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. There's nothing to stop, say, ammo crates from appearing near your Ju once you've taxied to a particular spot and/or turned your engines off.

 

In any case, a Ju52 campaign would be great! And those ME GUI teething issues? Soon, they'll be like old friends!

[Feathered_IV]

UNLOADING CARGO - TIME REMAINING

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

[Cybermat47]

 

UNLOADING CARGO - TIME REMAINING

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

And then a P-40 with a FAB-500 appears

[Feathered_IV]

Fear not.  Those manly men in their 109's will be flying top cover at 8000 metres. 

[150GCT_Veltro]

1) Tanks advance to the target (WP1) and they stop to refuel. Ju-52 have to refuel them (landing or paradropping) for the next advance (WP2, WP3, WP4) and here we go till the last task.

 

2) Stalingrad has a minimal % of renforcements needed for the German troops, because they could stay in combat without surrender. Ju-52 need to reinforce them till the end of the game, preserving the minimal % of "stamina".

 

Just some ideas.

 

Edit.

3) To increase the German "stamina" you need (can) also to evacuate injuried troops with the "Red Cross" Ju-52, this just to increase their moral. We need absolutely this kinde of skin.

Edited August 30, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[Brano]

1) Tanks advance to the target (WP1) and they stop to refuel. Ju-52 have to refuel them (landing or paradropping) for the next advance (WP2, WP3, WP4) and here we go till the last task.

 

I can't imagine paradropping barrels with gasoline without big SPLASH following :D

[Mysticpuma]

I see a lot of piss taking out of this decision to have a flyable Ju-52. "It'll be a coffin", "it'll be shot down", "crash and burn mostly"

 

So let's take a second here to think about the poor bastards who flew this for real in WW2. It must have been a damn hard job and a kick in the balls if you saw you had been posted to a Ju-52 unit.

 

Much appreciation then as they must surely have been truly brave men.

 

MP

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Funny enought it was one of the most important aircraft in every major german operation, be it in the West, East, Afrika or Italy. Yet it's being remarked as useless prey.

 

Let's see what the new game mechanics look like before drawing early conclusions of how "usefull" it will be ingame.

[Brano]

Most of those "It's useless crap" comes from narrow-minded people focused on MP dogfights. They forget about numerous offline flyers,who would fly it just for fun,doing sightseeing tours or pretending transferring cargo in-between airports. People with imagination that don't need a game play feature to tell them what to do. At the end,we will get those features along the development of next sequel. There's another virtue of offline flyers. Patience;)

[Ace_Pilto]

I'd rather have meaningful gameplay mechanics than my imagination alone. If I was going for the imagination angle I'd just run around my backyard making aeroplane noises and save myself $30.

[kendo]

Presumably (?) most of the time Ju52s would be flying in friendly airspace, perhaps coming near the front lines on occasion, but usual flights would be to 2nd line airfields quite a distance from the front I would think.

 

Stalingrad airlift and similar, and of course paradrops like Crete, would be the exception rather than the rule.

 

And regarding supply MOST of the time deliveries would not be to units operating in the field - eg tank units exploiting a break out - but to supply depots behind the lines from where the materiel would be transported by vehicle.

 

And actually, even more so, the vast bulk of materiel would arrive near the front by train, then be transported to front line units by vehicle. Capacity of airlifted materials and stores was far below the usual requirements and only to be attempted in dire emergencies.

 

So, maybe, most of the time a Ju52 pilots life might have been quite cushy...otherwise as demonstrated in the game with the easy kills that are racked up when facing unescorted Ju52s the Luftwaffe would very quickly have had its transport capacity devastated.

 

Of course, for interest and an enjoyable campaign (and seeing that it IS Stalingrad), I'm sure we'll focus on the more 'edgy' moments in the Ju52s history.

Edited August 30, 2016 by kendo

[Brano]

I'd rather have meaningful gameplay mechanics than my imagination alone. If I was going for the imagination angle I'd just run around my backyard making aeroplane noises and save myself $30.

Gameplay mechanics will come along,dont worry.Meanwhile enjoy your backyard flying. Unfortunately I can't,no backyard Edited August 30, 2016 by Brano

[Cybermat47]

I see a lot of piss taking out of this decision to have a flyable Ju-52. "It'll be a coffin", "it'll be shot down", "crash and burn mostly"

 

So let's take a second here to think about the poor bastards who flew this for real in WW2. It must have been a damn hard job and a kick in the balls if you saw you had been posted to a Ju-52 unit.

 

Much appreciation then as they must surely have been truly brave men.

 

MP

 

 

That, and my exposure to RAAF transport aircraft since I joined the AAFC (I got to fly on a C-130 with the doors open over Sydney, and met a MEDEVAC FLTLT who'd just come back from the Middle East - she really opened my eyes to just how vital MEDEVAC aircraft are), is exactly why I want to fly the Ju-52. I feel that I've focused on the combat aircrew at the expense of other members of any given air force, when they're a vital part of their service, so much so that the combat aircrew couldn't function without them.

 

 

Most of those "It's useless crap" comes from narrow-minded people focused on MP dogfights. They forget about numerous offline flyers,who would fly it just for fun,doing sightseeing tours or pretending transferring cargo in-between airports. People with imagination that don't need a game play feature to tell them what to do. At the end,we will get those features along the development of next sequel. There's another virtue of offline flyers. Patience;)

Damn right. I can't wait to play a PWCG Ju-52 Stalingrad campaign

[150GCT_Veltro]

If you think that Ju-52 is an aircraft for the offliners you're absolutely wrong. People who knows what SEOW is, will perfectly understand what i mean.

 

Ju-52 is only the first step in the right way. Sure....we need to buy it, and we need more features for multiplayer (online campaigns).

 

Online, also on WoL, there are a lot of fighter pilots dedicated to escort missions, just ask them to be covered.

 

For the future, try to imagine a Catalina takingoff from the sea (the Natural Engine sea and phisyc i mean) to spot the Japanese fleet....online...in Dx11.

 

Ju-52 is a very good idea, we need to support it.

Edited August 30, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[Jade_Monkey]

How about stringing together a series of totally varied SP missions:

 

Flying Stuka to cover a tank retreat

 

Then

 

Fly ju52 in to resupply an airfield in bad weather

 

Then

 

fly a 110 to cover a convoy of trucks heading out to the tanks

 

Then

 

a 109 to intercept incoming IL-2s

 

Then

 

a ju88 strike on an artillery position

 

Then

 

control one of the tanks as they advance to take the original lost position.

 

And there is an entertaining, story based set of missions showcasing a number of the aircraft available?...

Sounds great! Especially if you manage to tie the missions together with one overarching story.

[seafireliv]

I`d get in the JU 52 just to look around and see the cabin. I`m sure it`s pretty nice. Would hate flying it in the field though... I`d feel extremely vulnerable. Better be some damned good friendly pilots up there with me.

 

Now the Yak 1b I`m not as excited about, but will enjoy another Russian aircraft to learn.

 

I wouldn`t call them any kind of match up, just interesting.

Edited August 30, 2016 by seafireliv

[Gambit21]

Most of those "It's useless crap" comes from narrow-minded people focused on MP dogfights.

 

Yep

[Bearfoot]

So I fly helis a lot in DCS, and there is this fantastic mission for the Huey called "Huey Drop".

 

Basically, you fly from your home field to a troop pick-up zone, pick up troops, and then fly them and air assault them into a LZ. There are multiple LZ's,and you get to choose which one you fly into. Each LZ has different landing characteristics, cover, number and type of opposition near/surrounding them, and the more troops you feed into one, the more you will be able to sway the local outcome in your side's favor.

 

So, we can imagine extending this idea, e.g., a broad front with multiple conflict/contact points, including towns, bridges, airfields, arty positions, rail heads etc. Maybe there is a primary objective, e.g., a town. But it may be suicidal to try and feed into troops there immediately, even though it would help the mission most directly. Maybe you could try to drop paratroops to take the bridges and hold off reinforcements, strangling the defenders (or attackers) of the town, before trying to feed in troops/supplies there. Or you could attempt to take an airfield first, establishing a much faster turn-around/recycle time for troop/supply flights, then take the bridges, and then take the town. Or vice versa. By actively using transport to strategically influence logistics on the ground, you can have substantial and material impact on the mission outcome .... Il2 will be almost like a war-game!

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

While I don't expect IL-2 to get complex logistics like DCS or Arma I hope it will be possible to have some kind of ressource flow between airfields and certain frontline units which can be established by transport flight in Ju-52s.

 

The main focus should be on combat though which is why I'm looking forward to some more combat related missions like medevac and paradrops.

[Mesha44]

What do we do with the JU-52?

 

Invade Crete!

[Feathered_IV]

 

The main focus should be on combat though which is why I'm looking forward to some more combat related missions like medevac and paradrops.

Medivac would be interesting online if a measure of the enemy's accrued game points were lost every time some wounded were successfully evacuated.

[Jade_Monkey]

Maybe just wait till night time to sneak some supplies?