New Theater Announced Tomorrow??

[JG13_opcode]

There were Wildcats in the Med as well :D

Good point!

OMG, he said "ZERO" too. 

[Neil]

A battle of britain would be a "classic" popular theater without doing all the work as we have already german planes.

[Brano]

I agree with you Luse. Pacific scenario is of course very interesting but it is job for separate game studio. 1CGS guys can't do everything. Being Russian they have better access to datas of Soviet/German war in the east. Doing research in western archives might be a problem for them. We miss western based studio to grasp that area. I would gladly support them with my euros. And the healthy competition is always welcome.

[150GCT_Veltro]

We have high chances to have a Martlet fo rmy opinion, or....on the other side...P-39 or P-47. An american fighter is coming for sure.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Sounds like they made up their minds on Pacific, otherwise I feel like Jason would have said "I wouldn't" instead of "I won't".

I love it but man, you guys are reaching

[216th_Jordan]

Everybody needs to relax a little.

 

Right now is not the time to wish. It has been said that next theater will not fulfil many wishes but they try their best and if it goes well the theater after that would be different. thats what I understood. Nobody needs to pay money, so please don't threaten with not paying or supporting.

[LLv24_Zami]

Yes relax.

 

Clearly there will be a western theater. Maybe not yet the next one but after that. Now we can just wait for the news of future plans. 

[150GCT_Veltro]

So, you are saying it will be Kuban.

[LLv24_Zami]

So, you are saying it will be Kuban.

Not saying that but it`s very much possible 

[seafireliv]

He was not asking us to do this. He was saying why they have to choose their path carefully.

 

I know. I was simply confirming what he said. I`d prefer you answered the question than trying to berate me. Or say nothing at all.

Edited August 31, 2016 by seafireliv

[ZachariasX]

I have been around since before old IL 2 in communities like this, I really think Pacific would bring in more people, but it also bring with it a lot of work. So if it is economical wise to do I am not sure. But I do not think their struck gold by putting effort into this genre in the first place. So maybe they are passion about this genre, maybe they also like to do the Pasific, just because they want to.

What amaze me is the fact that people thinking that if they threatened not to spend 90$ if they do not do what you want, it might make them change their mind , (whatever that is).

Some believe 90 $ is expensive for a game of this size, I can totally understand some cannot afford it, but that do not mean it is expensive. 

Personally I do not like it when people say " if you do this I will not support you" . It is not a sentence that support the democratic idea, it is not so that these people talk for everybody. In my mind we just got 10% of the planes I want to fly in the  eastern front, that said I do not expect everybody t o agree with me. 

 

What is expensive and what is not expensive, that depends entirely upon your client base. The main problem I see is that that we are asking that much of something that is actually a game environment, not a flight sim per se.

 

Somehow, it seems that people want their sim for free and then are (not often enough) ready to shell out 10 or 20 bucks or so for an aircraft. But having “a sim for free” economically precludes the possibility of having much use for this sim other then shooting down aircraft. This really limits your client base.

 

If you could also use this sim to fly your Cessna or whatever in todays environment as well, client base would drastically increase. And it would bring on people that have no problem spending $100 for a plane if that is done in high fidelity. Go to the Prepar3d forum and look what people spend for their hobby or prefession there.

 

I would warmly welcome a $200 (or whatever) sim, featuring sort of a digital nature engine that would potentially map the whole globe. With low res textures and mesh outside “the sim” it should be doable. You could sell then higher res sceneries (like ORBX et al. do for FSX/P3D) if people want to fly in today’s New Jersey or wherever. But you can add the Ukrainian steppe of 1940 if your thing is to blow up stuff for one or the other side. You should unite the customer base, not fragment then by tailoring your sim for people that are happy with a flight sim in a Doom-level.

 

I think they should ask more for their products. They are worth it. But as DCS, the choice of “giving away a sim for free and just charging for (levels and) planes” set the playpen too narrow for people with money to participate, people that may have different needs than blowing up stuff, but just want to fly.

 

So I keep on buying their stuff. Even planes that I might use less. I want them to move forward anyway.

 

Z

[Brano]

We will get Ju-52 for people who just want to fly

[No601_Swallow]

I would warmly welcome a $200 (or whatever) sim, featuring sort of a digital nature engine that would potentially map the whole globe. With low res textures and mesh outside “the sim” it should be doable. You could sell then higher res sceneries (like ORBX et al. do for FSX/P3D) if people want to fly in today’s New Jersey or wherever. But you can add the Ukrainian steppe of 1940 if your thing is to blow up stuff for one or the other side. You should unite the customer base, not fragment then by tailoring your sim for people that are happy with a flight sim in a Doom-level.

 

I remember Luthier (way back then) posting somewhere that they hoped CloD would develop an FSX-type "eco-system", with map-makers and aircraft makers able to sell add-ons. I'd have shelled out quite a lot for a beautifully modelled Manston or Hawkinge, or an accurate 40's-era Dunkirk, for instance. 

 

Sadly, though, we all know how that turned out. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by No601_Swallow

[EAF19_Marsh]

Musing on the reference to Luthier, maybe could be an Ardennes map? Would be a development of [most of the] existing the Luftwaffe aircraft, would engage the Western market, avoid being labelled as 'another Steppes map' but supply material that could be then used for a Kursk, Bagration or similar semi-parallel work on the later EF.

 

Or complete not

[No601_Swallow]

Musing on the reference to Luthier, maybe could be an Ardennes map? Would be a development of [most of the] existing the Luftwaffe aircraft, would engage the Western market, avoid being labelled as 'another Steppes map' but supply material that could be then used for a Kursk, Bagration or similar semi-parallel work on the later EF.

 

Or complete not

 

I was referring to something he posted while CloD was still in development - something he hoped might develop around the core game. But my memory may be playing tricks on me!...

[ZachariasX]

I remember Luthier (way back then) posting somewhere that they hoped CloD would develop an FSX-type "eco-system", with map-makers and aircraft makers able to sell add-ons. I'd have shelled out quite a lot for a beautifully modelled Manston or Hawkinge, or an accurate 40's-era Dunkirk, for instance. 

 

Sadly, though, we all know how that turned out. 

 

So, you also spent on Hawkinge? Welcome to the club then.

 

The thing is, with CloD, they were producing anything but something alike FSX. We wanted Battle of Britain, Spitfire, Me-109, etc... and that is just what we got. We didn’t get a sim per se. We got beautiful versions of those planes to play around with. And a small playpen.

 

We, among us people with 20 years of simming experience, literate of all plus the most irrelevant info on the topic got this single projection of details, called CloD. They initially had to spend so much on getting all those beautiful details right, they just couldn’t keep up and complete a real simulator. Like a boat the doesn’t swim, “but boy, it has this great interior!”.

 

With FSX they did the opposite (it still was really problematic in the beginning), they produced a simulator that looked reasonably good, not too good, and that featured planes that are nothing but a sad joke compared to what you can do. IN ADDITION, they produced a development kit. That one is probably as important as the sim, as it is the sole tool for the community plus third party vendors to produce content, content that the original developer can’t get funds for or doesn’t have manpower for. And it is the best way for the publisher to direct how things will be integrated in the sim.

 

The difficult thing here is, the way you are designing your dev kit decides the way 3^rd party content will be produced and distributed. Making that one right is really difficult. It took Apple to show the world how you really do that. The “in-game purchases” as realized in RoF are an attempt in doing so, but there you face the problem that your “modules” will be hardcoded to the sim itself witch makes scaling of the offers very difficult as you can do it in only one way.

 

DCS have a more open approach. You could do it only through STEAM, but then you pay dearly for the ability of someone else to distribute and control your content.

 

CloD never had a dev kit released. TF is doing a terrific job and I look forward for their next update as well. It’s just too bad that there is so much work wasted in hacking a discontinued product instead of helping to push forward a current system. As they are certainly not supposed to add that content into BoS/M, they resort to not being really useful in the long run.

 

Now, IF 777 would have decided “to produce a real simulator” they would have taken the same flak as MS got for FSX: overtaxing current systems (nobody though that it had to last forever, now you can run it at 100+ FPS on normal systems in “normal” settings), bad aircraft modules, graphics being so-so, as they have to decide witch small patches of the globe they can make look sufficiently nice while leaving it open for the casual player to fly out in the blurs. Basically they’d be accused of everything people accused them of (make your own list) plus way more, as the first generation of modules to “seed” the sim couldn’t be possibly up to standard as we would expect them to be. Economically, they’d enter the valley of shit just in time where their budget is running out. If they can survive however, they would rule it all.

 

Why? A simulator is utterly agnostic to its content. Keep in mind, we have tanks in BoX! In Prepar3d, you have submarines, just because they added elevations even below sea surface. You can use it to simulate trains, a John Deere if farming is your thing, bicycles, whatever.

 

War Thunder and FSX and BoS can run in the same sim. It all depends on the LOD of your items/planes and on how much aerodynamic data you want to process. Some planes on FSX are utterly simple. Some are WAY more elaborate. If you compare a vanilla FSX with an FSX featuring recent scenery and planes, these are two completely different experiences, they differ more than FSX differed from MS FS2004 (just my taste).

 

The fate of this series will be ultimately decided by how much you can scale it. At some point, each added value of new content decreases. Having to load more and more individual levels is not the same as slowly getting a whole globe together even over different decades in time. Having such gives you way more than the ability to dogfight.

 

I made a poll some time ago in the RoF forum about who would welcome a limited detailed scenario mapped on a whole globe instead of individual limited patches. More than half were happy with what they had. Much to my surprise. The fact that it is not possible to fly from London to Paris didn’t really bother anyone. Good enough for dogfights. The implied necessity that you will have to create a whole “new game” for the BoX series instead of mapping different high and low LOD pars on the same globe and nothing will be taken over was just taken like bad weather. Not as a logical design result. It is pointless to upgrade old RoF when you can’t bring over any of the stuff.

 

Making a sim engine for a series of maps might look easy and it is very easy to ditch legacy stuff as you can decide to just bring a certain map to a next level like DirectX11. You don’t risk to break too much legacy stuff, a problem endemic in Prepar3d, although they do a great job there.

 

Thus, the choice of having only a couple of select maps makes you progressing cheaper, but also on a MUCH smaller scale. This leaves me just the option of buying individual planes to support the devs (and have great fun with those planes) as I can’t buy a higher LOD map of the whole of England for instance. But I would.

 

 

Z

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Question is if budget got accepted or 1C still havent decided. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It seems pretty clear a budget will be put forth. I think scale is the only factor at the moment and where the haggling is/will take place. How much Jason can get them to commit to is how broad of a stroke the next (two) modules will be. And it will be extremely important (perhaps more important) that the Western crowd jumps in with both feet when we move out of the Eastern Front. I'm hoping that is sooner than later but that's just my opinion.

 

The Dev's and the investors have the numbers as to what they can expect from another East Front module. It's up to Jason to propose numbers for West/Med or Far East and then deliver. I'm willing to help out either way as I greatly enjoy what has come so far. I, however, long for some sandy beaches along the shore with a new plane set....................whether southwest or southeast from our current location. I'm not picky.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I have been around since before old IL 2 in communities like this, I really think Pacific would bring in more people, but it also bring with it a lot of work. So if it is economical wise to do I am not sure. But I do not think their struck gold by putting effort into this genre in the first place. So maybe they are passion about this genre, maybe they also like to do the Pasific, just because they want to.

What amaze me is the fact that people thinking that if they threatened not to spend 90$ if they do not do what you want, it might make them change their mind , (whatever that is).

Some believe 90 $ is expensive for a game of this size, I can totally understand some cannot afford it, but that do not mean it is expensive. 

Personally I do not like it when people say " if you do this I will not support you" . It is not a sentence that support the democratic idea, it is not so that these people talk for everybody. In my mind we just got 10% of the planes I want to fly in the  eastern front, that said I do not expect everybody t o agree with me.

 

When I say I'm not going to buy another Eastern front expansion it's not a threat. It's the same as the majority saying they will buy whatever comes next regardless. I'm not going to do that. Unless it's something I want. I don't want to purchase another Eastern front expansion it's as simple as that. Just a different side of the coin. You don't like to hear the other side? Tough luck. I don't like to hear folk complain about FMs and weapon effectiveness but it's a forum and I accept that folk have different ideas of how things should be. I'll buy whatever comes next unless it's more of the same. I get that folk want to support the game. I wish the game well and a successful future but I'm not going to buy just because. The eastern front has never really interested me but I chose to buy both BoS and BoM, I choose not to buy another.

[ACG_daffy_]

If we want to be truly honest with ourselves, Pacific or Med theaters would be the only two to bring more players.  Battle of Britain...though fun and amazing...has been done to pieces, and that crowd is already here.  Sadly, interest beyond our niche for the Russian front of the war isn't as drawing.  IL2 didn't succeed because of the Theater.  They succeeded because CFS3 was bombing and they offered a new engine and unconventional plane set.  Not to mention tracers and contrails.  C'mon.  You know it lol.  When us CFSers saw those tracers and contrails we were like...ohhhhhh!!!

 

I think Historically in our genre, the Pacific is the most interesting.  Including drawing players and new interest.  CFS2 did it and it EXPLODED.  Oleg and co. did it with Pacific Fighters...and it EXPLODED.  It's just plain and simple a fun and immersive theater.  The others are too, but beyond the core group here, they just aren't as fascinating as Aircraft Carriers, Zeros and Corsairs or Hellcats.  I think they would be doing themselves a favor by going Pacific.  I'll support, as I've said all along, but another Russian front is probably going to be a speed bump, and we will loose player base to others going to the Ocean.  I hope I'm wrong. 

[Feathered_IV]

Jason mentioned two sequential chapters were being pitched to the backers.  I wonder if with regards to popularity one will be the carrot and the other the stick.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'll take an army type over a navy one any day all day, be it US, Japanese, or British Empire.

 

And I'll take a multi year campaign, like New Guinea, over a couple day shindig like Midway, as well.

 

And, I'd like a chance to use this again...  My old UBI forum sig.

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by BlitzPig_EL

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

The eastern front can be finished with a few maps and a few collector planes. No need for another $90 BoX. It was a world war, let's see some more of the world and some more of the countries that took part. It's time to move on.

 

I think think all of us know that it is really a big theater and a lot of work would be needed to complete it, just a few maps and extra collector planes won't do, same for the Western Front, although it happening in a bit smaller area gives the advantage of needing fewer maps to represent the several battles.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with a Battle of France title... it would be interesting, fresh, wasn't "officially" made before (just user made campaigns with mod flyable planes for 1946). A nice way to start into the Western Front

 

[ZachariasX]

If it is two theaters, then anotther russian one, featuring the P-39 plus Guadalcanal as second one, where you can use the P-39 again as well as the P-40. I guess the latter would eally help increasing player base.

[150GCT_Veltro]

MTO + PTO.

 

Will have ETO via aircarfts DLC and new maps like Odessa.

 

Another ETO actually would be a nonsense, even if Kuban would be fine for al lot of us because of the Lend - Lease aicrafts, but i don't think Jason likes the idea of another Russian front chapter.

 

P-39 is great but it can't be the new IL2 addon maker.

 

So...MED is coming with carriers, and later Pacific when all the new "sea tecnologies" will work fine. PTO will be the master piece in DX11.

 

For sure, something new is coming in the "big announcement" (as Black Six does call it), something really special i think.

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[FlyingNutcase]

I was going to wait to pre-order the '52 and 1B until after the hopeful announcement of the new theater this week as a show of support for it but with that not happening and all this talk of budget proposals I've just gone ahead and done it. So much for the strategy, lol. Good luck Jason. :-)

[ZachariasX]

With MTO, there is the problem that TF just started to enter these waters with the coming patch... Even though discontinued, CloD is by nature direct competition to BoS/M as it is a product built to similar specs...

[Aap]

As long as BoX and CloD are on different theaters, they are not direct competition, but rather supplementing each other. In that sense I hope that BoX and TF would not go to the same theaters any time soon, so flight sim fans could get more variety with these two games. There are still a lot of theaters to cover without any need of overlapping.

[Feathered_IV]

With MTO, there is the problem that TF just started to enter these waters with the coming patch... Even though discontinued, CloD is by nature direct competition to BoS/M as it is a product built to similar specs...

 

I would not like to see the inevitable clash of communities that would arise if both CloD and this series started doing the same theatre.  It would go on for years and bring nothing but harm to the genre.

[ZachariasX]

I would not like to see the inevitable clash of communities that would arise if both CloD and this series started doing the same theatre.  It would go on for years and bring nothing but harm to the genre.

 

This is another problem caused by the decision of the publisher building a sim to the exact same specs as previous products. If 777 makes a MTO now, it is fishing in the exact same pond as CloD is doing with update 5. I wish had 777 found a way for TF to contribute to the BoX series instead to a previous failed product.

 

Coming up with the exact same game, just with increased eye candy and more detailed planes is problematic when the discontinued products still evolve.

 

In this sense, I think CloD is actively harming the progress of at least this flight sim. It is because they decided to to provide the same kind of maps that we have since old the IL2. If they could map on a whole world, with each new map, the product would depart from the old ones as much as it would depart even from DCS, no matter how pretty their (future) maps are. Even old IL2 '46 is a competition to BoS/M as by concept, you can do everything there that you can do here.

 

As by contrast, Prepar3d professional pro can do everything BoX will ever be able to do (they are lacking a similar plane set though, but many other are available) plus it can do obvious things quiet naturally, that you will never ever be able to do in this series. It took Lockheed many years to come to this...

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

Grown men (mostly I assume) fighting over computer games,... tragic.

Well, if you remember old Il-2 forums, DCS forums or any other combat flight sim ... yes, grown men fight over computer games. And they do it hard. It's a fierce and passionate fight usually. 

[Jade_Monkey]

I find the guns in CLOD so underwhelming, nothing for me in that sim.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Jade_Monkey

[bzc3lk]

I really don't care what CloD/TF are doing. Not in the sense of what they are doing being wrong, rubbish or whatever, far from it... but I find it tiresome to say the least, that some people feel they have to be 'one or the other' and actively disparage the other.

 

Grown men (mostly I assume) fighting over computer games,... tragic.

 

If the current setup want to do a scenario then they simply should do so,... if they feel it is economically viable.

 

Just because some people want to behave like spoilt idiots it shouldn't be allowed to spoil it for others.

 

+1

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Does that make it right?

It's not Chief, I see your point and agree. But it's just the way it is. This is a highly passionate community that got into this niche. 

 

 

I find the guns in CLOD so underwhelming, nothing for me in that sim.

For me major issue with CloD was its heritage coming from old Il-2s, the archaic UI making it painful to use. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

I don't care what the modders over at TF are doing, and neither should the dev team at 777/1CGS.

 

I uninstalled CloD a long time ago and have never looked back.   It's a dead end, unsupported by the publisher product.

 

I hope Jason and crew do go on to the Med. and keep moving forward with the kinds of improvements, like DX 11, that CloD will never see because there is no developments to it other than modding it's now out of date engine.

 

CloD is just like the other "dead" flight sims out there,  MS CFS, IL2/46, etc...  still played by very small numbers who cling to the past.  

 

This sim is the future of WW2 flight simming.   Not an old engine constantly patched up by modders, no matter how dedicated.

Edited September 1, 2016 by BlitzPig_EL

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Clod is going DX 11 with next TF patch. It will support VR also.

 

We might see DX11 in Clod sooner than BoS.

 

There was around 160 players online in Clod last Sunday. More than BoS had at the same time.

 

I enjoy both Clod and Bos. I am happy to have both and happy fo TF keeping Clod alive.

 

Now waiting patiently for Jason'a big reveal (waiting since May) . Just couple of weeks more. After sale ends?

[ZachariasX]

You think it doesn't affect Jasons possibilities to source money for a project like the MTO if such would be already existent in a similar simulator? Everybody that already has CloD wouldn't have to buy it. They just have it. And you say this wouldn't affect the spending readyness of the general userbase?

 

I mean, there are people here that find it suitable to elaborate here why NOT to buy a specific product.

 

 

I don't care what the modders over at TF are doing, and neither should the dev team at 777/1CGS.

 

 

I'm happy that you don't. I'd worry however if the developpers don't. We have this sim only because they can expect profit from this venture.

 

If most people here as well as all other potential buyers are not affected in their buying descision, then this is happy news for me.

 

 

[NN_RugbyGoth]

Devs already said that BoB won't be a thing because there is CloD. So they look carefully at TF. 

 

But I do believe that MTO is an option for the next theatre. TF5.0 is "expected" but no one can say today when it will hit our computers.

 

Imagine beginning with tobruk, then Sicilia and to have malta as a bonus map like odessa with BoS, BoM!

[BraveSirRobin]

Devs already said that BoB won't be a thing because there is CloD. So they look carefully at TF. 

 

1C produced CloD. That is why they're not doing another BoB game. They would be competing with themselves.

[beepee]

I personally don't like CLOD as much as BOS/M due to the 'feeling' the FMs give me.

 

I do own both and I would support 777 and 1C if they went to the MTO.

 

The argument that they won't because another team is already doing it seems redundant.

 

The MTO covers a whole lot of territory.