Unlocks for Ju-52/3m g4e

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

This thread serves to collect ideas for possible unlocks for the upcoming Ju-52.  I'll add more to the list as my ressearch continues. Feel free to add suggestions for more unlocks or improvement of the list!

 

1. MG Stand II / C-Stand ("Gondeltopf")

The Gondeltopf was an optional defensive pod mounted beneath the fuselage. It was operated by 3 men and could be cranked up for flight over friendly territory.

 

2. Front mouted defensive turret / A-Stand

 

 

 

Optional cockpit installed ring mount with a MG15.

 

3. A-Stand "Condorhaube"

 

 

Optional cockpit mounted ring mount with MG15 and glass coupola. Turns aircraft into a g7e model (for model differences see spoiler)

 

g5e:                                          

- BMW 132 T engines (only difference to A is the different high revolution electrical generator)                                                           

- defroster device for wings, tail and propellor blades

- carburetor heating

- max TO weight for land based version: 10500kg

- max TO weight for sea based version: 11000kg

 

g7e: same as g5e plus

- additional heading controll

- lenghtened right loading hatch

- 8 folding seats in utitility compartment + 2 folding seats at spant 8

- window bewteen spant 5a and 6 removed

- max TO weight for land and sea based version: 11000kg

 

 

 

 

4. Waist gunner

 

 

 

Adding a wait gunner with 2 side mounted MG15 (one per side).

 

5. Remove MG Stand 1 / B-Stand (topgunner)

Removal of the upper rear gunner for saving weight and drag.

 

6. Bombs ("Behelfsbomber")

Found info in another forum (tx to Guignol & Christian)

The bomb load was 6 x SC 250 bombs; these were held in 3 different bomb bays. The bombs are carried in a vertical position, similar to the He 111 bomber.

3 Bombenschächte im Laderaum, Senkrechtmagazin DSAC/250 ohne Bombenklappen, für entweder 6x250 kg oder 24x50 kg Bomben.

 

3 Bombays in the cargo compartment. Vertical magazines DSAC/250 without bomb bay doors for either 6x250kg or 24x50kg bombs.

 

Adding the ability to carry bombs like in the 1939 to early 1940 bombing campaigns. (will do more ressearch on that)

 

7. Wheel pants

Adding wheel pants from early/pre war model for aerodynamical improvements.

 

8. Floats

 

 

Adding swimmers for sea based version. Will turn the aircraft into a sea based g5e or g7e variant (for model differences see in 3.)

Edited August 23, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Cybermat47]

Great ideas here. Which ones were in use within the Moscow-Stalingrad time span?

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Great ideas here. Which ones were in use within the Moscow-Stalingrad time span?

Difficult to tell since by that time a number of variants were serving although their differences were comparebly neglible for a game like BoS.

 

The Gondeltopf was used with the early bomber variant fron the spanish civil war up to 1940 when the Ju-52 was fnally retired from it's bombing duty due to it's high vulnerability and unsufficient performence. The Bedienungsvorschrift I have from 1941 mentions a possible installation for a g4e model though.

 

No info on the front mounted turret ring. Probably a field modification that existed threwout the war.

 

The Condorhaube was istalled on g7e and later models which served from 1940+. There are some pictures of machines on the eastern front having it so it likely fits the timeline.

 

Ju-52 Behelfsbombers were retired in early 1940 but I think this would actually be usefull to give this airplane more versatility in MP and for alternative history scenarios (besides, I have not found evidence that later models could not be modified for carrying bombs yet).

 

Unsure about the wheel pants. They derived from the pre war civillian models of which some were directly transferred to the military. Probably uncommon on the eastern front due to their tendency to jam in muddy conditions but it could be a nice visual gadged nonetheless.

 

Swimmers were definetly used threwout the war and saw action on the eastern front (likely not over Stalingrad or Moscow).

 

Before judging based on the theatres we have atm pls consider that the Ju-52 we will get served threwout the entire war at all different fronts and that the proposed unlocks are meant to cover all it's modifications. The ones not viable for BoS/BoM can still be locked server side to eliminate that concern.

Edited August 22, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[JtD]

Why do think we need unlocks if unlocks are no longer a game concept?

[Yazh-29]

This thread serves to collect ideas for possible unlocks for the upcoming Ju-52.  I'll add more to the list as my ressearch continues. Feel free to add suggestions for more unlocks or improvement of the list!

 

1. MG Stand II / C-Stand ("Gondeltopf")

Gondeltopf.jpg

The Gondeltopf was an optional defensive pod mounted beneath the fuselage. It was operated by 3 men and could be cranked up for flight over friendly territory.

 

6. Bombs ("Behelfsbomber")

Adding the ability to carry bombs like in the 1939 to early 1940 bombing campaigns. (will do more ressearch on that)

 

The trash can takeoff or landing position.

 

 

 

6. Bombs ("Behelfsbomber")

Adding the ability to carry bombs like in the 1939 to early 1940 bombing campaigns. (will do more ressearch on that)

 

 

For more information look at the position # 7 here: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234938771-ju-52-as-a-bomber/

 

 

Goodbye 6./ZG26_5tuka and good research.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Thx Guignol for the links & images, it's very helpfull!

 

Why do think we need unlocks if unlocks are no longer a game concept?

Since the devs still call them unlocks I sticked to that name although they're essentially modification like the ones from RoF.

 

It's not related to the droped unlock system in any way.

[Brano]

Version with floats would be awesome. I like seaplanes/floatplanes/flying boats a lot. Felixstowe in RoF is a blast 

[JtD]

Understood.

 

How about dragging a glider?

 

There were several bomb loads, such as 4x250 or 16x50 or 64x10 or 576 1kg fire bombs. Could all be separate loadouts, but I don't think the bomber role should be the focus, in particular since the Ju52 basically wasn't used in this role any more. It would be nice to see all other configurations, which would simply be different internal 3D models.

 

MG 131 could be used on the B position with late machines.

[Brano]

How about dragging a glider?

Yep,good point. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Gliders would be awesome, but I have concerns it might not generate enought interest to even the effort required to implement it (regardless of player or ai contorlled). Might add it to the list.

 

Your opinion about the bomber version is valid, however if we ever get an earlier scenario it could eventually become historically relevant again (depends on what devs plan for future theatres).

MG 131 could be used on the B position with late machines.

Do you have a picture / refference for that? I've read some speculation about it but haven't actually seen any evidence (my own materials range to the g8e version only).

 

Would gladly add it to the list!

Edited August 22, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[JtD]

The 1944 Kennblatt lists it as an option. I don't think I have seen a picture in the documents.

[xvii-Dietrich]

Floats would be fantastic. I agree that float-planes in RoF are done very well and are great fun to fly.

 

I would also suggest the option of removing all weapons. In other words having it completely unarmed, without any gun positions.

[Matt]

Skis could be interesting as well.

[Lusekofte]

The gondola underneath was a SCW feature that was dropped due to a significant drop in speed and performance, the aerodynamics of the plane changed dramatically . I do not remember how many types using it, but it was never a good solution. I do not think this gondola ever saw action in Eastern campaign.

And I would like to try it in this game engine, for curiosity. Because the dynamics in this game should be able to simulate such a drop in performance , and do it in a realistic way.

However I would like the float version and having the turret in front, The latter was used in many of the ones flying in Norway.

We are getting a ocean in next map, in that regard I would like the feature in laying mines at sea and then having the JU 52 flying with a magnetic ring taking them out. This way we will have bombers laying mines and a transport to disarming them.

Edited August 22, 2016 by 216th_LuseKofte

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I would also suggest the option of removing all weapons. In other words having it completely unarmed, without any gun positions.

That's what I tried to suggest at 5. (may change it for more clarity).

 

Skis could be interesting as well.

Sounds reasonable, why not

 

The gondola underneath was a SCW feature that was dropped due to a significant drop in speed and performance, the aerodynamics of the plane changed dramatically . I do not remember how many types using it, but it was never a good solution. I do not think this gondola ever saw action in Eastern campaign.

And I would like to try it in this game engine, for curiosity. Because the dynamics in this game should be able to simulate such a drop in performance , and do it in a realistic way.

However I would like the float version and having the turret in front, The latter was used in many of the ones flying in Norway.

We are getting a ocean in next map, in that regard I would like the feature in laying mines at sea and then having the JU 52 flying with a magnetic ring taking them out. This way we will have bombers laying mines and a transport to disarming them.

Sure the Gondeltopf was only used during the early bombing campaigns in 1939 to 1940. As per manual you could mount them on the g4e we're getting so it's technicly feasible. The only challenge I see with this is creating all the animations and simulating the 3 men crew operating it.

 

Minesweeping is a bit too exotic in my opinion. We don't have ships yet nor sea mines. Flying at low altitude following a strict search pattern for long time while being an extremely easy target is not sth I think many players will be interested in.

[Brano]

Minesweeping is a bit too exotic in my opinion. We don't have ships yet nor sea mines. Flying at low altitude following a strict search pattern for long time while being an extremely easy target is not sth I think many players will be interested in.

I volunteer!

[Neil]

I would love to see wheelpants and unarmed version

[xvii-Dietrich]

Yes to skis !

 

Yes to minesweeping-ring !

 

 

There are lots of great ideas in this thread here. A real opportunity to add some cool and different features to BoS/BoM. I do hope the Devs scan these posts for ideas.

[Jokili68]

Where do you want sweep mines?

[Brano]

Where do you want sweep mines?

In the sea,duh ...and windoze:D

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

According to Jason the Ju-52 is not meant to reccieve floats, so it probably is not intendet for maritim operations (including minesweeping). A bomber variant seems very unlikely, too.

 

Still it has a lot of potential and there are still some cool mods for it.

[Fafnir_6]

Hey guys,

 

I'm coming at this from a skinning perspective, so I believe the most important field mods to add would be:

 

-MG131 dorsal position

-Condor haube (usable would be fabulous)

-Waist gun windows (usable would be fabulous but simply a non-usable visual representation would also be great)

-Nose engine half-cowling (covered the exposed top rear of the nose engine - for looks only, I'm not sure it afforded any performance enhancement)

-Glider towing hook for the tailwheel (non-functional is fine, simply for accurate skinning)

-De-icing exhaust stacks for the #1 and #3 engines

-Removed main landing gear strut fairings (This is actually quite a common thing on the Ostfront)

 

Most of these (not the gun positions obviously) are simple 3D enhancements and would not require significant work investment.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Fafnir_6