=362nd_FS=Hiromachi Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Point I made long ago in one of dozens of similar discussions, people ramble about the clickable cockpits only to bind half of their keyboard/hotas for specific functions because nobody really cares about clicking when he is fighting. There are better things to spend resources on.
Lusekofte Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 It is so typical, someone suggest something and another one only look at the problems, like my wife. It is not up to us to say what is difficult. But the Dev team get nagged at about planes and map, I am pretty sure they are under the impression we want new planes every day. But please stop sabotage others suggestion, it do not help the developers at all. They are perfectly capable to answer for them selves More complexity do not require clickable cockpits, clickable cockpits do not add to immersion, but panels and hardware does. Clicking a mouse got nothing to do with flying. But that does not mean it is a bad idea. Just do not bring that into a totally different debate 1
dburne Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Point I made long ago in one of dozens of similar discussions, people ramble about the clickable cockpits only to bind half of their keyboard/hotas for specific functions because nobody really cares about clicking when he is fighting. There are better things to spend resources on. Most of the discussion really has not been about clickable pits, but the ability to bind keys/hotas buttons to certain functions that are currently not available to do so, they are automated.
II/JG17_HerrMurf Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 It's actually kinda funny because I've led with "I have no interest in click-pits" at least once and probably twice in this thread alone but am in the odd position of defending that position to people who are opposed to click-pits!?!
DD_Arthur Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Most of the discussion really has not been about clickable pits, but the ability to bind keys/hotas buttons to certain functions that are currently not available to do so, they are automated. Exactly Don I just can't resist the irony of Sharpe arguing over two pages about features he associates with clickpits and then going on to support a useful but similar addition to the game
=362nd_FS=Hiromachi Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Most of the discussion really has not been about clickable pits, but the ability to bind keys/hotas buttons to certain functions that are currently not available to do so, they are automated. Of that I'm not against. There is a distinct difference between enabling some functions that already exist in some simplified way or are not available and reworking cockpit model to add the ability for every switch to be turned/switched.
dburne Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 It's actually kinda funny because I've led with "I have no interest in click-pits" at least once and probably twice in this thread alone but am in the odd position of defending that position to people who are opposed to click-pits!?! Lol, the world has gone mad I tell ya!!
BraveSirRobin Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Exactly Don I just can't resist the irony of Sharpe arguing over two pages about features he associates with clickpits and then going on to support a useful but similar addition to the game The feature he wants is completely and totally unrelated to clickpits.
DD_Arthur Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 The feature he wants is completely and totally unrelated to clickpits. As is a more detailed start up procedure.
BraveSirRobin Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 As is a more detailed start up procedure. Not really. A detailed startup means adding a bunch of buttons/axis' that are only ever going to be used during startup. That means people either have to use up limited buttons for a one-time process, or the developer makes the cockpit clickable. That is totally different from adjustable gunsight options, which could potentially be used several times during a flight, and would destroy your situational awareness at the worst possible time if you tried to make the adjustments using a clickable pit. 5
dburne Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 As is a more detailed start up procedure. DD_Arthur nails it!
BraveSirRobin Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 DD_Arthur nails it! You would use a clickable cockpit to adjust your gunsights? That is a really bad idea.
dburne Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 You would use a clickable cockpit to adjust your gunsights? That is a really bad idea. No I did not see where he (DD_A) suggested to do so, just the opposite. In fact I use buttons on my HOTAS to adjust them in Cliffs.
BraveSirRobin Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Do have enough buttons on your HOTAS for the full startup procedure on most WW2 aircraft?
J2_Trupobaw Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Not really. A detailed startup means adding a bunch of buttons/axis' that are only ever going to be used during startup. That means people either have to use up limited buttons for a one-time process, or the developer makes the cockpit clickable. ... I see people binding these one-time actions to buttons '1' '2' '3' '4' '5' '6' ... or 'Q' 'W' 'E' 'R' 'T' 'Y'..., in order in which they are used during startup . Edited August 22, 2016 by Trupobaw 1
BraveSirRobin Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 ... I see people binding these one-time actions to buttons '1' '2' '3' '4' '5' '6' ... or 'Q' 'W' 'E' 'R' 'T' 'Y'..., in order in which they are used during startup . Just like real WW2 pilots used to do... Feel the immersion!!! 1
Brano Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 It's not about how they did it in WW2. It's about being in control of things. 1
dburne Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Do have enough buttons on your HOTAS for the full startup procedure on most WW2 aircraft? Probably not but for the startup procedure that BOS has sure. Again, as has been previously mentioned, I don't think anyone is asking for a full scale replica engine startup procedure, nor for click pits. I would certainly find it more immersive than just pressing one button , or simply starting out with the engine already running. In any event, I am pretty sure the devs have got some idea by now of what we were talking about. Whether that means anything or not who knows, but at least we communicated some of our desires. I have been away for quite some time, and the recent changes stated by Jason, and the fact he has taken the lead, has perked my interest up again in the sim. I am hopeful now for some things I would liked to have seen in this sim that maybe some of them might come to fruition. Notice I said might. I really don't understand the need by a few, to try to negate or slam ideas by some as being something that should never happen in the sim. Like only they know what is best for the sim. It is obvious they are making an outreach to try and increase the player base and get more folks into the sim. Heck if things are looking up going forward I might even buy into BOM. So yes I would be part of that group. Perhaps it would be good if everyone tried to have more of an open mind about things. Just like real WW2 pilots used to do... Feel the immersion!!! Really nice.
BraveSirRobin Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Like only they know what is best for the sim. That goes both ways. Would you prefer that everyone who disagrees with you just keep quiet?
dburne Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 That goes both ways. Would you prefer that everyone who disagrees with you just keep quiet? Just like real WW2 pilots used to do... Feel the immersion!!!
BraveSirRobin Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Perhaps it would be good if everyone tried to have more of an open mind about things. Again, that goes both ways. I have an open mind. I weighed the benefits and costs of a clickable cockpit and decided that it's a waste of resources. 1
dburne Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Again, that goes both ways. I have an open mind. I weighed the benefits and costs of a clickable cockpit and decided that it's a waste of resources. I think perhaps you are coming to assumptions rather than reading what was actually posted. But fine...
BraveSirRobin Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 I think perhaps you are coming to assumptions rather than reading what was actually posted. But fine... I think perhaps you are completely wrong. I'm familiar with all the pro and con arguments regarding detailed startup and click pits. I don't want either.
dburne Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 I think perhaps you are completely wrong. I'm familiar with all the pro and con arguments regarding detailed startup and click pits. I don't want either. LOL, ok then. I see not much has changed in here over the months. I said " But fine"... Over and out,
BraveSirRobin Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 I see not much has changed in here over the months. And my opinion about click pits won't have changed when you return from SimHQ several months from now.
SharpeXB Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Like in CLoD with a clickable cockpit? Oh wait....... Since this is an air combat sim and not an aircraft starting simulator yeah adding commands related to the gunsight makes more sense than adding commands only used once to start the plane. Look how the simplified systems planes in DCS are handled. They have a great many commands related to weapons, radar, flight controls etc. But starting the plane requires two or three keys. Right and Left engine start and electrical. That's because just like IL-2, Flaming Cliffs focuses on air combat, the stuff that happens after you start your engine. I weighed the benefits and costs of a clickable cockpit and decided that it's a waste of resources. So did 1CGS and arrived at the same conclusion. And said so here. With complete clarity. And yet the arguments continue...... I see people binding these one-time actions to buttons '1' '2' '3' '4' '5' '6' ... or 'Q' 'W' 'E' 'R' 'T' 'Y'..., in order in which they are used during startup .HOTAS means Hands On Throttle and Stick. It's intended for sensor or weapon related controls so the pilot can engage in combat without looking at the cockpit. So it would never have startup commands on it. Edited August 23, 2016 by SharpeXB
Boomerang Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Yes the communication has been excellent and much very appreciated, but .. it would no surprise if communication were to become less frequent. Busy fellow.
Rolling_Thunder Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Wow, one can feel the hostility in here. Nobody has asked for clickable pits. all folk have asked for is more start up procedures. to clarify using their peripherals, that includes the keyboard sharp, not just the HOTAS, to go through the start up procedure. Nobody is denying Jason said no clickable pits, we all saw it sharp, no need to quote it over and over. The only person that is continuing the argument regarding clickable cockpits is sharp who is continually misinterpreting what he's reading. and now robin is weighing in. Oh the US and THEM mentality. 2
Rolling_Thunder Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 You want more community input into the product like mods and other content, in the plan. So, from this may I ask if an SDK will be made available to the general player base? Even a limited one? Map making tools etc? I'd be pretty interested in those
Boomerang Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Common guys.. Conversation shouldn't be like this, all i am seeing here is folks throwing sand around in the sandpit, either to stir someone up or to make a point that should really be left be, imo. Think of others reading this, it would be horrible to leave any kind of bad taste with a hobby we all like. 1
Cybermat47 Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Common guys.. Conversation shouldn't be like this, all i am seeing here is folks throwing sand around in the sandpit, either to stir someone up or to make a point that should really be left be, imo. Think of others reading this, it would be horrible to leave any kind of bad taste with a hobby we all like. Reading the forum doesn't really leave a bad taste at times like this, it's more a loss of moisture in my mouth as I realise that grown men are acting like this. It gets worse when I consider that I've seen this behaviour before when people talk about political issues, but this discussion is about the much less important issue of video games.
ElPerk Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Since this is an air combat sim and not an aircraft starting simulator yeah adding commands related to the gunsight makes more sense than adding commands only used once to start the plane. Look how the simplified systems planes in DCS are handled. They have a great many commands related to weapons, radar, flight controls etc. But starting the plane requires two or three keys. Right and Left engine start and electrical. That's because just like IL-2, Flaming Cliffs focuses on air combat, the stuff that happens after you start your engine. So did 1CGS and arrived at the same conclusion. And said so here. With complete clarity. And yet the arguments continue... HOTAS means Hands On Throttle and Stick. It's intended for sensor or weapon related controls so the pilot can engage in combat without looking at the cockpit. So it would never have startup commands on it. DSC stuff like 190 and P-51D require a startup procedure. They're not overtly complicated and they are quite fun. They certainly bring some sort of value, but to be completely honest I can't really qualify it other than "my immersion" and I could live without. However, without clickable cockpits they are nothing but a sequenced memorization... which is easier accomplished by binding them to image macro... like perhaps a single button... waaait a minute.... Edited August 23, 2016 by ElPerk
1PL-Husar-1Esk Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 There are more important things to do or things that none sim ever had. I find what we have now reasonable compromise regard engine startup. 1
Brano Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 I want to actually play my game,not spend time watching the computer playing it for me.Its CFS at the end,right? No need for any kind of start-up,taxi,take off,landing and other CFS nonrelated nonsense. Let's just spawn at 4k in the middle of the dogfight! :D
CisTer-dB- Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Reading the forum doesn't really leave a bad taste at times like this, it's more a loss of moisture in my mouth as I realise that grown men are acting like this. It gets worse when I consider that I've seen this behaviour before when people talk about political issues, but this discussion is about the much less important issue of video games. I am speechless, well said Cyber Edited August 23, 2016 by ATAG_dB
J2_Trupobaw Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) HOTAS means Hands On Throttle and Stick. It's intended for sensor or weapon related controls so the pilot can engage in combat without looking at the cockpit. So it would never have startup commands on it. ...and people won't be using HOTAS buttons for startup, as you can afford to be looking at cockpit when starting the engine. That's why I expect these actions end up bound to keyboard keys instead (start engine with keyboard, then grab the HOTAS throttle). And, the most practical assigment is to give them subsequent keys on keyboard, in order in which they are used in startup, so player can start the engine by hitting sequence of buttons. But then, player does not even have to understand what he's doing anyway... "OK, startup sequence... Q, W, E, R,... wait, this plane does not use R, T, wait 20 secs, Y, U, I, ok, i'ts running." Edited August 23, 2016 by Trupobaw
Danziger Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Can you guys fight about start-up procedures somewhere else? This thread is supposed to be for wild speculation regarding Jason's comments about the future...
SharpeXB Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) DSC stuff like 190 and P-51D require a startup procedure. Yes, I own those planes as well. They also have clickable cockpits. That's what Jason had in mind when he responded to this question by saying they would not do clickable cockpits to incorporate a manual startup. Edited August 23, 2016 by SharpeXB
SharpeXB Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 And, the most practical assigment is to give them subsequent keys on keyboard, in order in which they are used in startup, so player can start the engine by hitting sequence of buttons. But then, player does not even have to understand what he's doing anyway... "OK, startup sequence... Q, W, E, R,... wait, this plane does not use R, T, wait 20 secs, Y, U, I, ok, i'ts running." What would be the point of that? Just blindly pressing keys in sequence instead of understanding what you're doing?Plus those keys already have more commonly used commands assigned to them. R is reload and E is start, 1 and 2 select engines etc. This thread is supposed to be for wild speculation regarding Jason's comments about the future...Yeah and the two most discussed ideas so far are adding an arcade style Wonder Woman View and that pressing two keys instead of one to start the planes would be some sort of vast incredible add to immersion. How about discussing some real improvements like having a Career Mode for the campaign
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now