These latest comments from Jason...

[dburne]

What I hate about discussions like thesis when members dismiss a server option request like startup procedure and say " The developers got better things to do"

the very idea puts all other opinions a side and prompted no suggestion valid.

It is not up to us what the developers got to priority, A simple startup procedure in the Dora, P 51 and BF 109 in DCS do not require clickable cockpits at all. The advanced stuff starts with the jets and advanced radars.

I see no reason at all why this should not be implemented from any players point of view, because this will be the server owners decision in the end. 

We the customers got no right dismissing a idea, in fact it ruins the very idea of a democratic choice , and are saying that the only valid suggestion is mine

 

 

Thank you, that is all I was doing expressing my opinion that I would love to see this sim do something similar for startup procedure option.

[SharpeXB]

When I was flying ROF I always started the engine up manually.

The option was there, and I used it.

Though I am sure there were much better things they could have done with their time...

There's no manual startup in RoF, unless you consider two key presses a manual start. WWI aircraft had a more complex procedure than pressing "E"

Start up and shut down in that other sim wasn't overly complex but it was definitely fun and engaging.

And it was one of those features that the community pestered the Devs to do and it was another thing that broke the bank of that game. It's amazing they put all the work into those click pits and startup and yet there was no way to set up an SP mission that used it. It was only available in MP.

[dburne]

There's no manual startup in RoF, unless you consider two key presses a manual start. WWI aircraft had a more complex procedure than pressing "E"

 

Lol I was not talking about a true simulated actual to life manual startup.

 

Pretty sure most folks have got the jist of it by now, I will leave it at that.

Edited August 21, 2016 by dburne

[Urra]

After Jason's announced features Many comments have been made regarding the cockpits, but I would say emphasis also has to be made on optimization of the program to accept as many ground and air units as possible. Would like to get as close as possible to the short motion pictures (the trailers) originally made in early 2013/2014, with so much smoke it blocks out the sky and roads covered with truck convoys stuck in mud on the Stalingrad front. Those trailers were really well made.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Those trailers were made with a ton of post processing. I don't think it was ever implied the game would actually look like that. In fact, the Dev's were pretty quick to say it was a cinematic representation. Trailers usually say something about actual in-game footage if there is no post processing.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

"And it was one of those features that the community pestered the Devs to do and it was another thing that broke the bank of that game. It's amazing they put all the work into those click pits and startup and yet there was no way to set up an SP mission that used it. It was only available in MP."

 

As I said, it was a cool, fun and compelling feature. I hardly think it broke the bank then or would in this sim either. Much of it, in fact, is already in place in BOS/BOM.

 

Jason has said no click-pits and I'm good with that. But going forward, it would be pretty cool. The problem with the aforementioned sim is they put features ahead of achieving a good core. The advantage here is the core is already well done. So, it'd be fun to add a start up sequence later.

 

You know, when there's time.

[Wulf]

If the 190 gets fixed I'd possibly reconsider but, given the response I've experienced over the issue to date, I can't in good conscience continue my financial support.   Glad to see others are still enthusiastic though and I hope the project succeeds. 

[smink1701]

Isn't the post directly above and below yours what you are looking for?

 

Isn't the post directly above and below yours what you are looking for?

Wonder Women view with gun sight just like the original IL2.

[SharpeXB]

Jason has said no click-pits and I'm good with that. But going forward, it would be pretty cool.

I'm pretty sure he meant no click pits period. Not now or in the future. Edited August 22, 2016 by SharpeXB

[Jade_Monkey]

 

A little comment:

COOP is not the competence of engineers. We have other guys in the team for this job. Anyway, research for more planes is really the first priority for us at this time.

S!

 

 

Yes, that P-47 isn't gonna build itself   

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'm pretty sure he meant no click pits period. Not now or in the future.

Second time you have misunderstood today. I don't want click pits. I'd like a start up sequence.

 

You know, when there's time.

[Marrond]

VR is the future of this genre. It's the next step for those craving the immersion. There really is no comparison between a monitor and VR. To get the rift working and the vive working for everyone dx11 is more important than a new set of aircraft and yet another Eastern front map. VR will bring more players to this game and that is what everyone wants right? I'm not a fan of WWV but I'm not horrified by having the choice for those that are. The problem with the release of this game was the stubbornness of loft and his vision, no compromise cost this game players. What I'm seeing, from this forum and others, due to what Jason has been saying there is a positive vibe about this game again let's roll with it and, like Jason, compromise. Everyone wants something different let's not tell folk you disagree with to abandon the game for Warthunder.

Pretty distant future though. Although playing with Vive is pretty great experience, you quickly notice the heavy toll in competitiveness department due to your typical spot-the-dot nature of simulators and insufficient resolution. As of right now, VR is simply expensive toy for people with monstrous PC rigs. Sure I can run IL2 no problem with my Titan Xs and 8-core 5960X but none of my friends can and won't be able too for quite a while. VR is not bad, it's just not yet there and it's not popularized enough (and companies don't exactly put an effort to popularize it expecting people to just dump A LOT of money into product that doesn't even have decent games working with it yet) to make any sort of noticeable impact into IL2 playerbase. For multiplayer now I will pick 3x monitor setup or atleast one ultrawide (21:9 ratio) monitor with TrackIR over Vive. But that's me after testing both solutions.

 

IL2 can win the market in the long run and let's focus on that addressing the real problems. Right now it's performance, hardware requirements and very small amount of content. (granted, it's a top quality content, missions aside)

Edited August 22, 2016 by Marrond

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

VR is not yet there for all aspects of our sim, second or third gen may be. But if one only pound ground objects and have cover and eyes from felow fighters why not? It could be fun if direct mode is supported and fps issues are resolved.

[Tomsk]

Pretty distant future though. Although playing with Vive is pretty great experience, you quickly notice the heavy toll in competitiveness department due to your typical spot-the-dot nature of simulators and insufficient resolution. As of right now, VR is simply expensive toy for people with monstrous PC rigs.

 

So I don't entirely agree, it's maybe not competitive in IL2 BoS but I've found flying in VR to be very competitive in War Thunder. This is probably because War Thunder has an impostor system that means having a lower resolution is not a huge penalty. War Thunder has some big limitations, and I don't honestly have a great deal of faith in Gaijin, but it does show that it's possible to create a WWII flight sim, without labels, where flying in VR is competitive with players flying with monitors. Also whilst playing War Thunder in VR needs a good modern PC, I definitely wouldn't say it needs a "monstrous" one.

 

My opinion is: VR is good enough now. In a year or two it'll be ubiquitous in the flight sim community, similar to how TrackIR became something every serious flight simmer had. If IL2 BoS wants to capture some of that market they'll need to add VR support, and they'll need to balance the spotting mechanics to make using VR competitive with using monitors.   

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 After reading that Jason has stepped in, I did cave in and got BoM Premium. No computer at the moment, so won't be playing anytime soon. But gave support to Jason's reign.

[Brano]

Hi Flanker. Good to see you around again

[Scarecrow]

I find manual starts get mundane and tedious after 12 months and clickable pits are a hassle to use with a HOTAS.

 

Bolstering the stable of aircraft along with the integration of PWCG is where I'd like my money to go.

 

I'm not so sure about the necessity for VR support, I'm not convinced VR has  "stuck the landing".

[Freycinet]

 

A little comment:

COOP is not the competence of engineers. We have other guys in the team for this job. Anyway, research for more planes is really the first priority for us at this time.

S!

Reading ANPetrovich saying that "research for more planes is really the first priority" for the team is very promising. :-)

[Brano]

I'm for manual start-ups. For those who want control over their machines and not some poltergeist moving all the levers Doesn't have to be too much detailed. Just what we allready have automated.Ofcourse with option to have it automated as option. Imagine having live mechanic removing chocks and you shouting "Ot vinta!" Or a sequence of climbing into cockpit.I miss this small immersion thingies on the ground.Now it's like ghost town with zombies wandering around:D

Edited August 22, 2016 by Brano

[SharpeXB]

Second time you have misunderstood today. I don't want click pits. I'd like a start up sequence.

 

You know, when there's time.

Jason's comment about clickable cockpits was in response to the request for manual startups. So clearly he connects the two features.

[dburne]

 

And it was one of those features that the community pestered the Devs to do and it was another thing that broke the bank of that game. It's amazing they put all the work into those click pits and startup and yet there was no way to set up an SP mission that used it. It was only available in MP.

 

You know for a fact that it contributing to breaking the bank?

Actually yes it could be set up in single player missions, I have user made campaigns that use manual startup sequences. I don't do MP either, so obviously it can be done in SP.

 

Jason's comment about clickable cockpits was in response to the request for manual startups. So clearly he connects the two features.

 

 

And you know this for a fact, or are you making the assumption.

 

I am always amazed how because a feature one might not care anything about, means to them no one should care about it.

Who cares if those who would like to see a manual startup sequence expresses their desire for such a thing?

If no one ever commented on things they would like to see in a sim how would the developers even know...

[kileab]

Many players do not even take the time to properly taxiing...

Even having to start the engine with one key must be a nightmare for them.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I don't read Jason comment like that. It clearly deal with clickable cockpits, not what you try to interpret into it to move your agenda.

 

Anyway, the only effective way to counter ignorance is mutual ignarance which is why this is a closed case for me now (I'm sure those willing to read and understand totally got it so I don't care for poor individuals refusing to do so).

Edited August 22, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[dburne]

Many players do not even take the time to properly taxiing...

Even having to start the engine with one key must be a nightmare for them.

 

LOL, that might explain a lot.

[KoN_]

The 202 seems to me being a fun plane that seldom get used, The P 40 is by my standards a good plane. I only go down in it caused by my own stupid engine management. I hear people are very unsatisfied with it. But when I fly it with 50% fuel 2 mg and extra ammo, It feel very good, if I can see a attacker before he fires at me I am good with it

I will defiantly get these two but i will wait for sales with the 190 being out of action i don`t want to waste money . But i look forward to them both . 

[Brano]

It is understandable for the impatient MP crowd to disregard such options as manual start-up procedure. But there are also those easy-going.immersion/reenactment weirdos who would like to have it. Like myself 

[SharpeXB]

You know for a fact that it contributing to breaking the bank?

 

I just know what clickable pit planes cost to buy. Every one I own cost between $30-50 apiece. Cliffs of Dover had 18 of them for $49 The "simple system" BoS and DCSFlaming Cliffs planes are essentially $8-$10 each. Not hard to figure out that CoD was vastly underpriced. Jason just commented on the cost too.

And yes, I heard click pit were not planned initially for CoD until the usual vocal minority screamed for them on forums. So it was another part of the scope creep that doomed CoD.

 

Actually yes it could be set up in single player missions, I have user made campaigns that use manual startup sequences. I don't do MP either, so obviously it can be done in SP.

 

Well I was never able to figure it out. Add poor GUI design to the list of CoDs shortcomings. There's so much that didn't work why bother trying.

 

And you know this for a fact, or are you making the assumption.

 

Jason just said manual startups require clickable cockpits and that those cost too much to implement. No assumption required, he stated that quite clearly. Edited August 22, 2016 by SharpeXB

[dburne]

I just know what clickable pit planes cost to buy. Every one I own cost between $30-50 apiece. Cliffs of Dover had 18 of them for $49 The "simple system" BoS and DCSFlaming Cliffs planes are essentially $8-$10 each. Not hard to figure out that CoD was vastly underpriced. Jason just commented on the cost too.

And yes, I heard click pit were not planned initially for CoD until the usual vocal minority screamed for them on forums. So it was another part of the scope creep that doomed CoD.

 

Well I was never able to figure it out. Add poor GUI design to the list of CoDs shortcomings. There's so much that didn't work why bother trying.

 

Jason just said manual startups require clickable cockpits and that those cost too much to implement. No assumption required, he stated that quite clearly.

 

Well I sure don't know what it costs to make pits, guess I am not in the know. And because you state how much - well I still am not in the know.

 

The point is, manual startup does work in SP Cliffs.  Not that difficult. And I do it with my HOTAS, no need to click in a pit.

 

No Jason did not say manual startups require click pits. You said that. He did say click pits were not going to happen, and that is understandable.

 

Seriously, let it be - nothing wrong with folks expressing their desires of things they would like to see, no one is demanding anything...

Edited August 22, 2016 by dburne

[Brano]

I remember Korea Mod in old sturm done by some french enthusiasts. Starting procedure for MiG-15 or Sabre had smtg like 10-12 steps. A bit simplier procedure was also for piston engine aircrafts like F-51 or Corsair and such. It was awsome comparing to simple "press magic E button". I had those procedures mapped to keyboard and also manually written on piece of paper sticked on the side of the monitor. They went so far that there was also procedure to restart the engine in the air,puting on/off oxygen mask or even unstrap yourself before trying to jump out of the plane. All of that added to the immersion much more then anything else 

[SharpeXB]

No Jason did not say manual startups require click pits. You said that. He did say click pits were not going to happen, and that is understandable.

 

Summary of the discussion:

Hardcore engine start!!

That's already in game. We just need keys for every pump, switch and selector.

And someone to create aircraft checklists

Could be implemented and still have an option for automatic startup - so both sides would be happy.

 

Still there are things of greater importance but nontheless - why not?

I would agree with that, they are there and automated - there are not that many, would be nice to at least make those manually controllable as an option for those that choose to do so.

Then Jason replies to the above.

Clickable cockpits are great. I like them, BUT they are a money and time sucking feature that I simply can't afford. I'd rather pay my engineers to work on ways to put more planes in the sky and new modes of gameplay like COOP than engineer clickable cockpits. Unless you plan for them from the start it's so hard to go back and add them later. :-(

 

Jason

So his mention of clickable cockpits was in response to the previous posts that asked for manual startups. Therefore, yes he did imply that manual starts require clickable cockpits. That's why he brought it up.

He also says they cost too much and take too much time. He knows they cost too much and take too much time because of the example of Cliffs of Dover.

Not too hard to connect all the dots here.

Edited August 22, 2016 by SharpeXB

[dburne]

Not too hard to connect all the dots here.

 

LOL whatever you say...

[KoN_]

i don`t think we need clickable cockpits , what we have already , with prop pitch , water and oil , ata , rpm , is good , once you get used too clickable it then turns into a chore .

I would rather see the shimmer go from the maps and have good visibility all round  . Better airfields into mutliplayer and the FM reworked 190 and 110. 

[BP_dFrog]

I'd like to see adjustable gunsight.

[Stig]

Fuel cock, electric master, mags 1 and 2, primer, etc. I enjoyed the start sequence in CLOD. It was genuinely fun. If you didn't sequence properly or set the throttle incorrectly you could get a no start.

 

The animations are already there in BOS/BOM. Six or seven keystrokes or HOTAS buttons are all it would really take. I doubt it would involve a huge amount of coding/time.

 

Start up and shut down in that other sim wasn't overly complex but it was definitely fun and engaging.

 

You only need to set the fuel cock in Clod, and then press 'I', to start the engine.

[Lusekofte]

You only need to set the fuel cock in Clod, and then press 'I', to start the engine.

 

yes , but you can still choose to do the whole startup routine if you want to, because they work. But are set to on. 

[SharpeXB]

I'd like to see adjustable gunsight.

Yes. Range and wingspan adjustments for those would be nice. Most of the planes in BoS/M didn't have that, like all the German ones. The Revi isn't adjustable is it? But going forward there are many which will.

[DD_Arthur]

Yes. Range and wingspan adjustments for those would be nice. 

 

Like in CLoD with a clickable cockpit?   Oh wait.......

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Like in CLoD with a clickable cockpit?   Oh wait.......

 

I operate the entire F5-E radar system in DCS via HOTAS controls - the clickpit isn't necessary... What's your point here..?

[BraveSirRobin]

Like in CLoD with a clickable cockpit?   Oh wait.......

You don't need a clickable cockpit for those features.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I operate the entire F5-E radar system in DCS via HOTAS controls - the clickpit isn't necessary... What's your point here..?

Makes my point entirely.