Taxiing the BF-110

[SCG_Limboski]

When I'm taxiing the BF-110, I need to input almost full right rudder deflection (and some right toe brake thrown in with my pedal setup) to keep the 110 in a straight line even at lower power settings.  (I am also compelled to set the rudder trim full right to help compensate.)  Is this modelling completely broken or off?  I cannot imagine this extreme rudder input which is needed to be correct.  I have absolutely no problems taxiing other twin engine Axis aircraft I've tried like the Ju-88, so I do not think the problem is with my setup.  I do not have a split throttle setup, does this help tremendously when taxiing?  That is, being able to gun only one engine at a time?

 

Also, the documentation for this aircraft seems pretty sparse.  The only documentation I can find is in this post and the information given seems incomplete.  For example, the water and oil operating temperatures and limits are not given.  How am I suppose to read the oil engine gauges on each engine, for example?  (Or is this even relevant with the modelling given that you hardly need to open water or oil cooling controls to keep the engines cool.)

Edited August 14, 2016 by II./JG77_Limbo

[GridiroN]

For me personally, I have an X55 and do not use the split throttle, I use both only 1 throttle for both engines. 

 

The default rudder trim is too strong for me. I usually bring it down 10% or so. 

 

Otherwise, what I've found is most effective for both JU88 and BF110 is throttling up strongly to get the prop wash and rudder authority strong quickly, as both planes have strong engines for their weight and lack a tail wheel lock.  

 

There may be an issue with your setup though as the JU88 is the most difficult plane to get off the ground and is absolutely impossible to get in a straight line with my pedal'less setup (i use keyboard and stick for braking systems). The BF110 is much easier. 

 

As far as oil, it's automatic, and water, I just keep the needle north, and no higher than 80c which is the same as the 109 series, as the 110 also uses the DB engine. I rarely need more than 66% water rad. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by GridiroN

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

The short answer, Yes it's broken!

[Yogiflight]

Oil radiator is not automatic in the 110. It´s the two rear levers on the left side moving in four steps.

Taxiing the 110 is really not easy and it doesn´t get easier through the under proportioned brakes.

[GridiroN]

Oil radiator is not automatic in the 110. It´s the two rear levers on the left side moving in four steps.

Taxiing the 110 is really not easy and it doesn´t get easier through the under proportioned brakes.

 

Wut? I'll have to check this when I get home. I don't think I have a button set up for that and I don't think i've ever touched the oil rad and have never had an oil problem. 

[Jade_Monkey]

Go slow, be patient, and dont get sick when it starts looping.

[Asgar]

The short answer, Yes it's broken!

no it's not. i have no trouble to taxi the 110. pull back on the stick to increase the pressure on the tail wheel and everything should be fine

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

No problem here as well

[Yogiflight]

Gridiro, to be honest, most of the time my oilrad flaps are closed. I am not sure, if this is modelled correctly, but I open them after takeoff one step to get the temperatures down faster and then close them, because otherwise the temperature will fall under the lower limit.

Edit: I was flying two missions on the summermap of BOS, here I had to open them, because of the higher temperatures.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Yogiflight

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

You need to pull back your stick and keep there. It is necessary for tail draggers.

The short answer, Yes it's broken!

How a zerstorer flyer can state this ?!

 

Anyone who needs help with 110s please send us a PM so we can schedule some flight ť training.

Edited August 15, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

In short, full right trim while taxing does help, tap the right brake as she wants to veer off course to the left.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by II./ZG1_HarryM

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

@ Gielow: Just because I'm a 110 flier it's not by default I like everything about this sim. The ground handling is one part I find utterly "wrong" with no weight to the airframes and no real friction with the ground for an example. I have a lot of video of Bf110 taxiing and I also have the pilots notes on how to fly it and trying to follow those instructions is impossible.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

It is not about liking it or not. It seems your impressions about taxiing are wrong. Where is exactly your pilot notes?? I want to take a look.

Edited August 15, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

The manual is 100 MB in size so I made an excerpt from the part interesting in pdf format.

It states that cornering is easy to perform either with differential thrust or by differential braking.

Long periods of braking is prohibited due to possible damage and/or weakening of brakes.

Long taxiing should be avoided due to overheating.

 

The part is under Rollen (Taxiiing)

 

AFAIK nothing applies to BoS at the moment. You cannot turn the 110 with ease by differential power.

You cannot turn or taxi without extreme use of brakes (not realistic in any way) and extreme right rudder.

 

Take it as you like but I know what I think.

Excerpt.pdf

[707shap_Srbin]

Tests of Bf110C-5, 5F+CM

Test 1, England.

 

Test 2, England.

 

Test 3, USA

[707shap_Srbin]

Die Deutsche Wochenschau - 1940-09-18 - Nr. 524 - Erster Grosangriff auf London

 

ZG2 is rolling and taking off to Great London attack.

 

Note ground handling. Watch from 10:35

 

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

One thing that BoS got absolutely correct atm is that the manual explicitly states that one engine manoeuvring on the ground is not possible :D

"Manövrieren am Boden ist einmotorig nicht möglich. Der Versuch führt notgeddrungen zur Zerstörung der Bereifung"

[KpgQuop]

HarryM, thanks for the link in your video to the airfield information. It's very useful.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I don't know what you need to consider easy to taxi, but for me the plane behaves like your manual and books reviews. Do you have an axis for each engine and rudder pedals? ??

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

They would most likely haved used differential throttle. It's the most basic technique for twin engine taildraggers.

Edited August 15, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

[Monostripezebra]

They would most likely haved used differential throttle. It's the most basic technique for twin engine taildraggers.

 

..and something you can even do in BoS. Even without a fany throttle quadrant the magic keys are 1, 2 and 0. If you then still have trouble with finding the right taxiway you should check the alcoholic overboost fluid-levels on the pilot. The 110 taxi is definatly not a thing that is broken.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Dr_Zeebra

[SCG_Limboski]

I have no great problem with taxiing and taking off in the 110--especially with a little more practice now since my original post.  My original point was that the extreme amount of right rudder needed to keep the airplane straight, especially at low throttle levels, seems way too extreme to me and not like the other twin engine airplanes I've tried in this game (e.g., He-111 and Ju-88) or in other IL-2 sims.  Literally, with neutral rudder, and just a very small amount of throttle input will cause the 110 to start swinging hard left.  Can the small amount of propeller torque really account for this much lateral force?  I think the modelling is unlikely to be accurate here.

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Maybe the twin vert stabs give more surface area for the corkscrewing airflow to hit (each fin lined up with the engine). On a twin engine with a single vert stab the prop air is not corkscrewing into the tail as much. Maybe. Not saying it is correct in game, it does seem a bit excessive to me, but would explain the difference between the 2 types of plane. (twin engine twin tail versus single tail).  

[GridiroN]

Gridiro, to be honest, most of the time my oilrad flaps are closed. I am not sure, if this is modelled correctly, but I open them after takeoff one step to get the temperatures down faster and then close them, because otherwise the temperature will fall under the lower limit.

Edit: I was flying two missions on the summermap of BOS, here I had to open them, because of the higher temperatures.

 

Haha, I went home and checked this, and turns out the BF110 oil is not automatic. Funnily enough, I've flown the plane on many sorties and have never touched this control and have never had an issue with my cooling. 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Haha, I went home and checked this, and turns out the BF110 oil is not automatic. Funnily enough, I've flown the plane on many sorties and have never touched this control and have never had an issue with my cooling. 

Historically the Oilcoolers on all Messerschmitts tended to be somewhat oversized and survived even the highest temperatures very well. The standard inflight settings for manual Oil Rads were often 0% even in the Manual. 

[KoN_]

Taxing in the 110 seems off to me also .

 

Even though i do take my time , going from the narrow taxiway too runway , i always seem to ground loop . Also this could be at ground level as fps drop and may cause some input lagg . 

 

And the  taxi ways arn`t wide enough either IMHO,  i hope there will be a change too the new airfields like BOM . 

 

It just needs toning down a touch way too sensitive .  

Edited August 18, 2016 by II./JG77_Con

[1./ZG1_ElHadji]

There is something wrong with the ground handling on the Stalingrad map. Just because some of us have learnt to deal with it, it doesn't mean it is correctly done.

[GrendelsDad]

Yes Chief I always taxi with it open. Just started doing that way and never changed. Not sure how many times I didnt remember to close it on takeoff.

If I go off in the snow, I gun it and pull back on the stick, half right rudder and pray.

also known as the "John Wayne" by my friends from JG52.. (VonAlba & Wild1)

Edited September 7, 2016 by II./ZG1_GrendelsDad

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Keep the Winchester in the cockpit for "close encounters". 

[GrendelsDad]

It strikes me to try it when the windspeed is high to see if I notice.  I will report back.