Need help in fighting wiith the FW 190 A3

[LuftManu]

Hello guys.

I created this topic because I am feeling useless with the anton and I would really appreciate if someone could share his experience/tactics or wathever can be usefull in it.

 

The other day was flying in some online server, I think Moscow Warbirds and entered in combat against a Yak. I was at 5.000m and him at 3.000 and climbing. I dive and shot him, he begun to turn so I climb using the retained energy.

After that I made this strategy again but now diving from 6.000m , he was at least 5.000m. Again I failed my shots and begun a climb again but for my surprise the Yak started to climb, far but sustained.

 

I got shot in my fuel tank from very long distance so I dove. 

 

After I reach ground at atleast 800 km/h I couldnt see anyone, so I turned back home at low level, in a pair of seconds a burst killed my engine and cut off one of my wings, it was the Yak.

 

I know is hard to tell but,  what I did wrong? (Without track is hard, but someone got a clue?)

 

Today I was fliying against Yak and La5 in the Patrick campaign. I have no problems with the La, usually I manage to take at least one down but with the Yak is impossible, I can´t bring one down, they always dive with me and approach slow. I cant imagine how he can aproach me at low level when I am +550 km/h.

 

I know they can retain the energy but how long? 

 

I used the 190 in 1946 as my main aircraft alongside the i16 and the P47. With the latter I managed to bring germans down with the dive but when I was in a Fw, if I didnt see a good position I always climbed after the first burst an ran away. I don`t know why this is not working anymore (I know, new engine, new Fm..)

 

Also, the other day I was chased by a LaGG3, he also got me but I managed to escape.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited August 11, 2016 by ManuV

[LuftManu]

bump.

 

Nobody?

[Dakpilot]

I am no expert on ACM with FW190 ( or most aircraft  )

 

However some points, it "seems" that maybe your escape dive was too steep, even if you are diving steeply at 800Kmh if the Yak is diving shallower it can still catch you

 

also when flying the 190 against Yak it must always be remembered that FW190 weighs about a Ton more at empty weight and probably needs to carry more fuel to fly similar distance

 

With its much more effective and lighter control surfaces (and heavier weight)  it is much easier to bleed energy than the Yak when pulling out of a dive, ( something noted by Soviet pilots and included in official tactics against 190) Yak is also smaller and more aerodynamic

 

These are just some thoughts, without a track to analyze I am just guessing, offline AI will not make best use of aircraft performance compared to an experienced online pilot who knows the strengths of his aircraft

 

An interesting analysis of Yak vs 190 here

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/24060-fw190-vs-yak1-duel/

 

There are many more around to pick up some pointers

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited August 12, 2016 by Dakpilot

[LuftManu]

I am no expert on ACM with FW190 ( or most aircraft  )

 

However some points, it "seems" that maybe your escape dive was too steep, even if you are diving steeply at 800Kmh if the Yak is diving shallower it can still catch you

 

also when flying the 190 against Yak it must always be remembered that FW190 weighs about a Ton more at empty weight and probably needs to carry more fuel to fly similar distance

 

With its much more effective and lighter control surfaces (and heavier weight)  it is much easier to bleed energy than the Yak when pulling out of a dive, ( something noted by Soviet pilots and included in official tactics against 190) Yak is also smaller and more aerodynamic

 

These are just some thoughts, without a track to analyze I am just guessing, offline AI will not make best use of aircraft performance compared to an experienced online pilot who knows the strengths of his aircraft

 

An interesting analysis of Yak vs 190 here

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/24060-fw190-vs-yak1-duel/

 

There are many more around to pick up some pointers

 

Cheers Dakpilot

I`ve already talked to that pilot in one of my fellow squadrons.

 

The dive was a optimised dive, that means that when I was diving I never went more than 5 m/s but achieving more than 800 km/h and like I said I stop when I was 1.000m.

 

I cant menouver the FW if is under 500 km/h the stall characteristic seems awful so I must use it as a "one pass and pray" plane.

 

Not really sure this is in RL.

[JtD]

If you're not using emergency but just combat power, the Yak-1 outperforms you between 2500 and 4500m in terms of level speed. You will not gain significant separation in a shallow dive. If he chases you without exceeding his diving limit, he can stay reasonably close to catch up with you when you level out and turn down low.

 

Therefore - use WEP when in a tight spot. You'll need it. In a 1vs1 with the current flight models, engage WEP and disengage from combat as soon as you realize you have been spotted.

[Gump]

have you ever seen the way AI fly/maneuver? - very clumsy and aerodynamically inefficient... you might be able to beat AI la5's, but human/MP pilots not so....actually, you may find that the La5 will catch you on the deck more than the yaks. ...the yaks will sustain energy much longer than the 190...

.

sometimes the VVS planes will exceed their dive limit and shed an aileron or two - maybe this will help you if you can see it.

.

ive found the same as you - the VVS planes will catch up to you eventually, even when you dive away (in various types of dive). you cant outclimb them. you cant out turn them. the 190's advantage is that you can see them clearly as they shoot you.

.

flying the 190 is a big-odds gamble. you may get victories, but chances are you will die. victories not only are won by much skill, but much luck. that's just the way it is currently. no one who cares about pilot death flies it for dogfighting.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Your dive was absolutely too steep and allowed him to catch you up when you leveled off. He pitched down at a shallower angle (700-725'ish) and cut you off using trigonometry.

 

You generally want to fight the Yak above 4500m or below 1000 from Co-E. With an E advantage you can BNZ for several passes before you need to extend but you will need to extend eventually if you don't finish him. You don't appear to have been lulled into a slow stall fight and that is good. All of the Soviet birds will eat your lunch if you do.

 

From Co-E your extension will be very slow. You will not accelerate as well as the Yak from Co-E either. My standard tactic is to jink small until I bleed his energy then climb them up at 300 kph - usually jinking a bit still. It seems to be the sweet spot for extending and climbing from an adversary. I cannot stress enough you are pitching for angle initially. The horizon should be about half way down the instrument hood to achieve 300 kph. Regardless of your current speed it is just a few degrees above the horizon. Let the speed bleed off naturally. Don't pitch high and then try to level off at 300. The lighter Soviet AC will catch you in a climb if you try it that way.

 

If you are still not extending you can try step climbing and alternate using WEP for climb and level flight as well.

[LuftManu]

Thanks for all the tips guys! I am now understanding better the E-Retention of the 190 but I still being amazed by the "stall warnings or instant stalls" when you are below 500/450kmh. 

 

Well, the plan is the same, one pass and run if needed. I need to be more sure before entering in a fight with those pesky Yaks  .

 

 

I will be practiicing more diving/climbing to optimise!
 

Thanks

[Dakpilot]

Some curve on elevator axis can go a long way to help with the vicious accelerated stall issue

 

Cheers Dakpilot