JU-88 Employment and Usage: Historical vs. Simulated vs. Unnatural

[Bearfoot]

How do YOU use the JU-88?

 

Every reference on the JU-88 proclaims its versatility, the maid of all trades. Currently, though, it appears that we are limited to just the "A" version, which is the stock medium bomber.

 

That's fine!

 

There is still a lot that can be done with it!

 

Well, as long as by "lot" you mean "a lot of bombing", because that's the only mission profile allowed.

 

OK, so how do you use the JU-88 to bomb?

 

A high/mid level bomber?

 

A dive bomber?

 

If a level bomber, do you come in high (4000m? 7000?) and use the bomb sight?

 

I am just beginning to fly this (one of my top three favorite WW2 aircraft!), and I find in the few practice missions I have tried,  I like to come in very fast and low in a shallow dive and drop a string of "eggs" by eye. So, I use it almost like a modern deep strike aircraft, like the F-111 or F15E.

 

Very unhistorical or unauthentic? Probably not an optimal approach once we up the jeopardy (add in heavy anti-aircraft as well as a opposition fighters)? What are your thoughts?
 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Bearfoot

[Feathered_IV]

I'm pretty similar and tend to use it and the Pe-2 rather like a DE Havilland Mosquito.  I fly very low and navigate by dead reckoning.  Then pop up for a quick look around at key nav points before heading for the deck again.  When a target is located I swing out wide and climb to about 1500m, circling around so I can dive on the target with my nose already pointed towards home on the way out. 

[Brano]

It's great medium bomber. I used to fly with ZG26 guys a few missions on their server in formation of 7-9 Ju88s and it was experience like none other. Taxiing for take off,climb,getting in formation is most rewarding part of the flight. And with good flight leader you just release the bombs on command. We ploughed many targets like that. Watching the inferno of dozens bombs exploding on the ground is breathtaking.The key to enjoy flying bombers is in formation flying. Doing solo might be an option,but you are likely going to be shot down by bunch of horny fighters.

[SAG]

The problem wiht high level bombing in this game (not particular to this plane) is that the draw distance of buildings is very limited, so level bombing with your bomb-sight at anything above 5km is incredibly hard (or near impossible) since the targets "spawn" almost right below you, so you dont have time to adjust your course and correct settings

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

The problem wiht high level bombing in this game (not particular to this plane) is that the draw distance of buildings is very limited, so level bombing with your bomb-sight at anything above 5km is incredibly hard (or near impossible) since the targets "spawn" almost right below you, so you dont have time to adjust your course and correct settings

Sadly but true.

[L3Pl4K]

 

 

How do YOU use the JU-88? Every reference on the JU-88 proclaims its versatility, the maid of all trades. Currently, though, it appears that we are limited to just the "A" version, which is the stock medium bomber. That's fine! There is still a lot that can be done with it! Well, as long as by "lot" you mean "a lot of bombing", because that's the only mission profile allowed. OK, so how do you use the JU-88 to bomb?

A high/mid level bomber?

Yes

A dive bomber?

Yes

If you have some fighters to kill the AA you can use the plane for ground attack.

[Monostripezebra]

It´s the best bomber.. you can go level or divebombing. Ok, we don´t got a destroyer or torpedo version.. but for its purpose it is still the best plane. Highest speed and bombload. What´s not to like?

 

level:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kxjQiKugfc

 

Dive:

 

 

The problem wiht high level bombing in this game (not particular to this plane) is that the draw distance of buildings is very limited, so level bombing with your bomb-sight at anything above 5km is incredibly hard (or near impossible) since the targets "spawn" almost right below you, so you dont have time to adjust your course and correct settings

 

but after one overflight of the target you can get an estimate of what would be a good line next run.. that´s how I deal with it. remember some landmarks and lay a stick of bombs along a line through the target that you know will be full of stuff.

[SAG]

It´s the best bomber.. you can go level or divebombing. Ok, we don´t got a destroyer or torpedo version.. but for its purpose it is still the best plane. Highest speed and bombload. What´s not to like?

 

level:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kxjQiKugfc

 

Dive:

 

 

 

but after one overflight of the target you can get an estimate of what would be a good line next run.. that´s how I deal with it. remember some landmarks and lay a stick of bombs along a line through the target that you know will be full of stuff.

 

 

Thats completely true, but its still a workaround, i wish they adedd a "Distant Buildings" like they did with the grass for the computers that can handle it. one can wish!

[=FI=Blue2]

Totally agree with the good Dr. - the '88 is a BEAST.     I haven't flown it a ton, mostly because I'm usually flying Red for team balance.  But I've used it multiple ways & love all of them.  If you have fighters guarding you as you work down low, you can wipe whole targets away with a single bomb load.  Been there, done that a couple of times with Rambo & others watching my six.  I'm just glad Blue side doesn't tend to use this tactic more often when I'm flying Red!!  If they did, and applied a little focused teamwork, they would dominate & roll the servers all the time.  Not a doubt in my mind.

 

Yeah, Sag, maybe sight distance will improve in time.  Meanwhile what Zebra said about target overflight is a great for now if you're working up high, especially if you have escort.  And often escort is optional, since Red fighters defending high over their targets are typically a rare thing.

 

Expanding on this, and in the spirit of trying to help those less familiar with it, here are a few suggestions that should help for high level work.  Some help for any mission where navigation matters.  They don't really require too much time either.

1.)  ALWAYS take a few minutes for map study while at 0 meters & 0 km/hr.  Don't just glance at the map, grab a heading or 2, then rush for the runway.  It's likely your plan will have to change en route.  Some extra map familiarity up front pays off when that happens.

2.)  Plan your attack from the target, working backwards.  So, decide which heading you want to attack from, then look in that direction & pick a waypoint for your Initial Point (IP).  Then, plan your route backward from IP to your starting base.  Next, consider which direction you should egress from the target area based on flak, enemy bases, etc., and plan that leg of the flight.  Finally plan remaining legs back to home.

3.)  Work 'big to small' to locate targets or waypoints.  For this game, 'big' usually means large features like rivers or lakes, but on winter maps it can be easier to use cities or blocks of forest in some cases.  On future maps, terrain features like mountains may play a role too.  Study the shapes & relative distances between these features.  Visualize what they should look like on your planned heading as you approach them.  Next, focus in on the target area, and smaller features nearby.  Maybe a bridge just to the west is aligned with it.  Maybe it lies in the northern tip of this "L" shaped town.  Locate any small features nearby that will help you zero in during that final approach.

 

Lots of this can apply to low level attacks too.  Visualizing is a huge piece.  You'll build the skill with time/experience, and it's especially handy if you have to attack from an unplanned heading or altitude.

 

No, I don't always follow this stuff.  Sometimes I'm pinched for time, or just plain lazy.  Both of those often lead to rushed takeoffs, rushed attacks, getting lost, missing the target, etc.  It's just gonna happen sometimes if you don't 'do the work.'  But, when I apply some discipline, things go much better (unless a fighter gets me).  Happy bombing!

Edited August 11, 2016 by =FI=Blue2

[Dakpilot]

Ah yes, the Seven P's 

 

Proper Pre Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Monostripezebra]

1.)  ALWAYS take a few minutes for map study while at 0 meters & 0 km/hr.  Don't just glance at the map, grab a heading or 2, then rush for the runway.  It's likely your plan will have to change en route.  Some extra map familiarity up front pays off when that happens.

2.)  Plan your attack from the target, working backwards.  So, decide which heading you want to attack from, then look in that direction & pick a waypoint for your Initial Point (IP).  Then, plan your route backward from IP to your starting base.  Next, consider which direction you should egress from the target area based on flak, enemy bases, etc., and plan that leg of the flight.  Finally plan remaining legs back to home.

3.)  Work 'big to small' to locate targets or waypoints.  For this game, 'big' usually means large features like rivers or lakes, but on winter maps it can be easier to use cities or blocks of forest in some cases.  On future maps, terrain features like mountains may play a role too.  Study the shapes & relative distances between these features.  Visualize what they should look like on your planned heading as you approach them.  Next, focus in on the target area, and smaller features nearby.  Maybe a bridge just to the west is aligned with it.  Maybe it lies in the northern tip of this "L" shaped town.  Locate any small features nearby that will help you zero in during that final approach.

 

I think especially the 2nd point contains some very solid advice, that so often make the difference when you really want to do a "serious" attack on a target and actually come back and land, like during an event or with a sim squad... 

 

Every target has good and not so good directions to go at it from, and together with navigational aspects that really gives you an idea of how the line-up should "ideally" go.. combine that with areas of the map where you don´t want to be in during transit because they have a better chance of containing enemies at certain points in time and you got the basics for a plan together. The rest, like actually hitting it, is just a technicallity that comes automatically with practice. In nearly all BoS servers the one luxury you got as a bomber is fuel and range. You´re barely ever have to strike at a range that forces a direct-in-approach.

[Bearfoot]

Totally agree with the good Dr. - the '88 is a BEAST.     I haven't flown it a ton, mostly because I'm usually flying Red for team balance.  But I've used it multiple ways & love all of them.  If you have fighters guarding you as you work down low, you can wipe whole targets away with a single bomb load.  Been there, done that a couple of times with Rambo & others watching my six.  I'm just glad Blue side doesn't tend to use this tactic more often when I'm flying Red!!  If they did, and applied a little focused teamwork, they would dominate & roll the servers all the time.  Not a doubt in my mind.

 

Yeah, Sag, maybe sight distance will improve in time.  Meanwhile what Zebra said about target overflight is a great for now if you're working up high, especially if you have escort.  And often escort is optional, since Red fighters defending high over their targets are typically a rare thing.

 

Expanding on this, and in the spirit of trying to help those less familiar with it, here are a few suggestions that should help for high level work.  Some help for any mission where navigation matters.  They don't really require too much time either.

1.)  ALWAYS take a few minutes for map study while at 0 meters & 0 km/hr.  Don't just glance at the map, grab a heading or 2, then rush for the runway.  It's likely your plan will have to change en route.  Some extra map familiarity up front pays off when that happens.

2.)  Plan your attack from the target, working backwards.  So, decide which heading you want to attack from, then look in that direction & pick a waypoint for your Initial Point (IP).  Then, plan your route backward from IP to your starting base.  Next, consider which direction you should egress from the target area based on flak, enemy bases, etc., and plan that leg of the flight.  Finally plan remaining legs back to home.

3.)  Work 'big to small' to locate targets or waypoints.  For this game, 'big' usually means large features like rivers or lakes, but on winter maps it can be easier to use cities or blocks of forest in some cases.  On future maps, terrain features like mountains may play a role too.  Study the shapes & relative distances between these features.  Visualize what they should look like on your planned heading as you approach them.  Next, focus in on the target area, and smaller features nearby.  Maybe a bridge just to the west is aligned with it.  Maybe it lies in the northern tip of this "L" shaped town.  Locate any small features nearby that will help you zero in during that final approach.

 

Lots of this can apply to low level attacks too.  Visualizing is a huge piece.  You'll build the skill with time/experience, and it's especially handy if you have to attack from an unplanned heading or altitude.

 

No, I don't always follow this stuff.  Sometimes I'm pinched for time, or just plain lazy.  Both of those often lead to rushed takeoffs, rushed attacks, getting lost, missing the target, etc.  It's just gonna happen sometimes if you don't 'do the work.'  But, when I apply some discipline, things go much better (unless a fighter gets me).  Happy bombing!

 

Great advice! Thanks!

So, I see that high-level bombing from this beast gets some love. 

 

It's definitely more challenging, requiring planning and skill, rather than low-level "winging" it (ha! ha!).

 

I guess one clear advantage is out of AA range?

 

Does it get you better accuracy/results?

[Bearfoot]

Interesting/relevant note on bomber tactics, from "Luftwaffe Bomber Aces: Men, Machines, Methods"

 

"""

The vast distances involved put a premium on rail transport for the Soviets. Not only supplies, but tanks and guns had to be got to the front. At this point the railway specialist Eisenbahn Staffeln started to emerge, although these were not formalised until December 1942. The tactics were pioneered in Po- land in 1939. Close to the front, the bombers, usually a Kette of three and often operating with a fighter escort, bombed from medium altitude, attacking at a shallow angle and releasing the bombs in a closely spaced stick, usu- ally at 10m intervals. This gave a good chance of achieving at least one cut per stick.

Far better results could be achieved on deep-penetration flights. These flights were usually undertaken by single bombers which crossed the battle area at a relatively safe altitude and headed for the interior, for areas where anti- aircraft fire or fighters were unlikely to be encountered. Once there, they de- scended to between 300 and 500m, following the tracks. Having taken drift sights to establish the direction and strength of the wind, they released their bombs singly. With a load of twenty 50kg bombs, several cuts could theoreti- cally be made over a considerable distance, closing the line for far longer than a single cut would have done. This was a classic example of economy of force. 

"""

 

Not clear to me (right now) whether the aircraft are JU-87, JU-88, HE-111, or something else?

 

EDIT: I think it definitely is not Stukas, as he mentions them later in connection with taking out bridges which he says the "bombers" referenced in the above paragraphs could not do.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Bearfoot

[xvii-Dietrich]

How do YOU use the JU-88?

 

I prefer to do high-level bombing, but the rendering distance is a major problem.

 

So, in the end, I can't see the ground target areas until it is too late and then I have to turn around, either to try again or, more likely, to dive down to low altitude and attack at low level.

 

At this this is feasible with the Ju88. It's not practical to do it with the He111.

 

So, yeah... in the end, I use the Ju88 as a low-level bomber.

 

 

 

 

Every reference on the JU-88 proclaims its versatility, the maid of all trades.

 

The "maid of all trades" (= Mädchen für Alles) is the Ju52, not the Ju88. This mistake once crept onto Wikipedia and now everyone quotes it as it were fact. Yes, the Ju88 was versatile, but that particular epithet belongs to the Ju52.

 

 

 

 

With a load of twenty 50kg bombs, several cuts could theoreti- cally be made over a considerable distance, closing the line for far longer than a single cut would have done. This was a classic example of economy of force.

 

 

Not clear to me (right now) whether the aircraft are JU-87, JU-88, HE-111, or something else?

 

20? That's an unusual number.

 

I wonder if they mean 18 (which was one of the internal bays of the Ju88, if I recall correctly.)

[Monostripezebra]

I guess one clear advantage is out of AA range?

 

it´s WW2, you´re never really out of range of the AAA over a defended target. Less at Risk is the better term.

 

The obtainable accuracy is however quite ok. ;=)

 

 

Wrote some tips here, if you´re interested:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/24387-guesstimating-through-clouds/

[Bearfoot]

it´s WW2, you´re never really out of range of the AAA over a defended target. Less at Risk is the better term.

 

The obtainable accuracy is however quite ok. ;=)

 

 

Wrote some tips here, if you´re interested:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/24387-guesstimating-through-clouds/

 

Thanks!

 

Reproducing the great tips here for ease of access:

 

 

Ok, when I have time I´ll see what I can do.

 

So far, just take some pointers like:

 

A) go for a good angle towards the wind, somewhere in the range of 20-30° with, or against it works like a charm..

B) make the final targeting aproach somewhere between 10-30km, from a point of the map that is clearly identifiable on the map.. towns on rivers are great for that. Work with catch-lines to get there (ie long terrain features that you can´t miss, even if you steered a few degrees of course or had wind drift. Again, rivers are your friend. Once you do that, you can have the target lined up 5km out, so no last minute corrections that mess with the speed, and you can use drag elements like cowlflaps to keep the speed right on the numbers, though the long approach, obviously, altitude should be held equally precise.

C) DON´T trust the altimeter in the bombsight gui. It´s buggy, use the cockpit one.

D) Overfly the target as little as you can.. if the target is the north side of an airfield, don´t run in from the south.. flak tends to be agressive. Come in from the north and spend the least amount of time you can over a target.. you can even turn around before you are over it, because your bombs drop forward considerably from altitude. Don´t fly straight and level after drop, even at 6k the guns will get you once every 10 runs if you do fly straight for longer then absolutely necessary.

 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Bearfoot

[Bearfoot]

 

The "maid of all trades" (= Mädchen für Alles) is the Ju52, not the Ju88. This mistake once crept onto Wikipedia and now everyone quotes it as it were fact. Yes, the Ju88 was versatile, but that particular epithet belongs to the Ju52.

 

 

 

 

Not saying that this attribution (to JU52) is wrong, but the 1990's TV series "Wings of Luftwaffe" episode on the JU88 also refers to it as the "maid of all work" (https://youtu.be/zMbGbuyUUPM?t=71), so, if a mistake, it certainly pre-dates Wikipedia! And, whatever source they used have apparently also been used by other old references as well!

[Bearfoot]

 

I prefer to do high-level bombing

 

 

Again, is this due to better accuracy and "less risk" (as Dr_Zeebra would say )?

[Asgar]

I like dive bombing in the Ju-88, but my favorite way to use it always was and always will be high altitude level bombing. 6k altitude even MiGs will have a hard time catching you.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcltNuYe2s0

[Bearfoot]

 

20? That's an unusual number.

 

I wonder if they mean 18 (which was one of the internal bays of the Ju88, if I recall correctly.)

 

The JU-88 A4 could carry 20 internally (see Equipment State A, 10 x 50kg in forward bay and 10 x 50kg in rear bay, according to Squadron Signal series, citing the JU-88 A4 handbook). 

[Asgar]

nope. 18 in the forward bay and 10 in the rear bay. 28 in total

[Monostripezebra]

I can only recomend playing with or against ZG26 if you want to see propper use of the Ju88. It would clearly be the best bomberplane if it just wasn´t so ugly and it´s strenghts are best demonstrated by people who actually use it right rather then sturmo-it on the deck.

 

 

I like dive bombing in the Ju-88, but my favorite way to use it always was and always will be high altitude level bombing. 6k altitude even MiGs will have a hard time catching you.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcltNuYe2s0

 

That beeing said, the Pe2 not only looks better, but it also has occasionally better multirole use:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKLSTCuduEc

[Bearfoot]

I can only recomend playing with or against ZG26 if you want to see propper use of the Ju88. It would clearly be the best bomberplane if it just wasn´t so ugly and it´s strenghts are best demonstrated by people who actually use it right rather then sturmo-it on the deck.

 

 

Yes, would love to see it being used how it should be used. Or rather, as it was historically used.

 

Now, as far as aesthetics ...

 

There is no doubt that there are the "pretty" bombers, which are good-looking in a conventional hum-drum way, e.g. B-17 or B-25 or Mosquito or Bf-110, and yes, the Pe-2. 

 

But then there are the aircraft that have the so-full-of-character-that-they-redefine-beauty-on-their-own-terms quality to them.

 

The Lanc falls in this category, as does the JU88 and the DO-17. As does, for that matter, the eponymous IL-2. And, in modern times, the A-10. Honestly, every time I see an image of JU88, I always spend at least a second or two longer looking at, drinking in the strange yet mesmerizing lines. Put a Lanc or JU88 next to a B-17, and the B-17, while pretty, looks so .... boring and uninteresting in comparison. But you can spend all day looking at a Lanc or a JU-88! As an aside, I think that the He-111 has also got a conventional beauty to its lines, but it also does have an otherworldly look, which looks like it is an alien spacecraft from the set of Flash Gordon.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Bearfoot

[Bearfoot]

 

That beeing said, the Pe2 not only looks better, but it also has occasionally better multirole use:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKLSTCuduEc

 

Ahh, reproduction! THAT is how new bombers are made!

[Bearfoot]

nope. 18 in the forward bay and 10 in the rear bay. 28 in total

 

Maybe this is the difference between maximum capacity and standard/recommended war load? The reference goes on to describe two other Equipment States ("B" and "C"):

 

"""

The fuselage bomb-bay loads (as recommended by the Ju 88A-4 handbook) included the following Ruestzustand (Equipment States):

 

Equipment State A - Up to ten 50kg (110 lb) bombs in both the forward and rear bomb bays (twenty bombs total).

Equipment State B - Up to ten 50kg bombs in the rear bay and one 1,220 liter (322 gallon) fuel tank in the forward bay. (This was the most common configuration).

Equipment State C - One 322 gallon fuel tank in the forward bay and one 680 liter (179.5 gallon) fuel tank in the rear bay.

"""

Edited August 14, 2016 by Bearfoot