Game version 2.003 discussion: BOM release, new features

[ZZ15_dasSofa]

Many good points raised here, I'm no gun expert in any fashion, just like and welcome all efforts made to date by the developers. It shows they listen and care just as much as we do, (but you can't please everyone). . 

The input within this thread is good, always something to learn about.

I found this as an example, was rather curious regarding the sound. Seems to be in sink with the footage.

 

I saw an anglo-american Documentary about WW2 Fighter Guncams. They show where they where mounted in different Fighters and some Specs of the Cameras, release ect.

The Cameras didnt have Sound recording ! But i can just say this about the Cameras which they used in this Documentary. Didnt know how much different cameras they uesed.

 

https://youtu.be/FsQ1mlIpldo?t=0m30s

Start at 1:40

I know, this Video have poore Quiality, but i can tell you - my ears really hurts every time when Marc Mathies pitch up.

The firewall and the hull didnt stop much of the Engine sound. I flew nearby an hour with a Ju52 and after 10 min. i was sick from the Engine loudness. I can imagine that the Pilots here the gunfire, but not as loud as in the game now.

 

The new Gunfire Sounds are better but i agree that they sounds a bit wrong.

Edited August 11, 2016 by I./ZG15_dasSofa

[El_Babuino]

New gunshots sounds is awuful. What will be next? Anime-plasticiline-style graphics from WarThunder?

[Danziger]

I'm not getting the part about hearing metal casings hitting the floor. Sounds like moving weapon parts to me. I used to be a gunner in Iraq and have quite a lot of first hand experience with the Browning/FN M2. From directly behind the weapon you don't really hear anything through headphones. The weapon firing is felt as a rapid series of small shock waves in the air. Being inside the truck while the weapon is firing you feel the shock much less intense and you do hear shell casings and belt links falling everywhere.

 

I also imagine that huge links and casings for 20/23/37mm rounds would make more noise than smaller 7.62/12.7mm rounds. I know US 5.56mm and 7.62mm machine guns make quite a jingle with spent links and casings. The M2 is less because of slow firing rate but still there.

 

But as I was originally saying it doesn't sound to me like spent rounds more like spring/bolt carrier action which makes sense to me since the shock waves from firing are outside the sealed aircraft and big heavy moving parts are inside the fuselage.

Edited August 11, 2016 by BorysVorobyov

[Boomerang]

Options are always good, but

 

I don't know if anyone has been able to turn off the grass completely? but if possible this will be an advantage when using tanks, 

 

I would not know if turning down Gun sounds would be an advantage for anyone in MP but if it was adjustable someone will surely try to take advantage, does it really matter? not much but some always fly with open cockpit to get better SA, this my personal speculation anyway..

 

Sounds ridiculous but in the past people have played with very low resolutions, turned off trees etc. to gain any advantage even if their game looked horrible 

 

Options are great, but if they allow exploits not so much, options that still allow level playing field = win

 

As far as game sound design is concerned i would guess that engine/cockpit sound is simulated wearing a helmet/headphones, at least that is what I feel from personal experience of large piston engines and in game sound,

 

Simulating accurate raw engine/enviromental sound in cockpit would be very tiring/unpleasant after a minute

 

Concerning the new Gun sounds I agree that there is a difference in R/L and what is expected/desired for satisfying gameplay, it is a debate that will continue 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

The possibility of exploits are a great point, Dakpilot. Could never understand the point of anyone actually doing this deliberately , and for what ever reason for that matter.

Debate, input, it's all good, so long as it's constructive and reasonable

Edited August 11, 2016 by Boomerang

[Boomerang]

Here is another example of different sound, includes: Rockets, explosions, gunfire etc. Camera was vibrating during gun fire @ approx. 2:10 ish. 

Sounds kind of simular to the example I posted before hand..

 

 

​ 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Boomerang

[Feathered_IV]

It's certainly good for newsreels, but I can guarantee that the sounds are dubbed in by someone in a studio, many thousands of miles away. 

[Boomerang]

Wonder where the sound originally came from? May have been a standard sound which was used across the board..

[Cheebs]

I like the sound effects but agree that it is a bit high pitched and would sound better if it wasnt so 'bright' as someone else said. Should be felt more than heard.

[A-E-Hartmann]

Tanks for update .

[SCG_motoadve]

You guys might have a point that roaring of 600hp engine (or more? I dont really know) would silent the gun sound a lot, but Il2 is still a game, and big part of every game is immersion, and when i now press the cannon button and shoot at enemy plane i hear the guns roaring and see them blazing and it feels way better to shot down a plane then before, and thats all that matters to me

Agreed, not realistic but more fun.

The gun cameras catch the sound of the machine guns and explosions because they were mounted in the wings of the planes, if it was mounted in the cockpit you will hear the engine mostly and a weak sounds of machine guns.

[Feathered_IV]

Wonder where the sound originally came from? May have been a standard sound which was used across the board..

 

In those days recording studios had sound libraries filled with different samples.  I remember seeing vinyl records back in the early 70's that were made for these places to use.  There were volumes dedicated to the sound of different footsteps, chairs scraping, you name it.  Stock gun and aeroplane noises abounded too.  The radio station sound archive I visited as a kid had four aisles of records running from floor to ceiling, and that was a small one.

[Cpt_Cool]

If you scale the volume down and filter the higher frequencies if the gun sounds to compensate for engine and wind noise, you ruin the immersion of firing guns while stationary with the engine off. Seriously though, It is totally apparent why they would boost the volume of the gun sounds - to compensate for the fact that you cant feel the vibrations to a small degree, but more because it makes the game more accessible or enjoyable to a wider audience.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Cpt_Cool

[SharpeXB]

All movie and game sound effects are artificial. Unless you want the actual sound of an exploding hand grenade in your living room. And since you can't convey the vibration or recoil that's made up for by sound. If you muffle the weapon sounds like they might actually sound to someone with earphones on, it would seem underdone in the game. Like the TF mod hamster farting noises in CoD that was trying to be "realistic" but just ends up sounding stupid.

 

This was a great game for WWII weapon audio. It was all miked live on a firing range

[Sokol1]

I found this as an example, was rather curious regarding the sound. Seems to be in sink with the footage.

 

WWII era Gun cam don't record sound, is post-effect. 

 

Warbirds firing guns - unfortunately not record from cockpit - so no "scientific" value.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmln5aChX0s

 

In this P-40 have other plane engine sound in back/foreground.

 

 

This P-40 strafe sound like CLoD.. "peashooter" guns (0:28) 

 

https://youtu.be/oO3gE7VA0Hs?t=28

 

Guns sound are OK in game - was done for please "gamers".

 

But the issue is that are too loud now.

 

OT - Good reference for... "laser tracers" visuals:

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Sokol1

[Jade_Monkey]

I dont know if its accurate or not but i definitely prefer the new sounds. Much more enjoyable.

 

Also, realistically you will only pull yhe trigger for a small fraction of the flight, its not like we are constantly hearing the loud guns. Having said that, i see the point of the gun sounds being a bit too loud.

[Matt]

Also, realistically you will only pull yhe trigger for a small fraction of the flight, its not like we are constantly hearing the loud guns. Having said that, i see the point of the gun sounds being a bit too loud.

 

 

That's exactly the point though. Before the update, i was adjusting the volume (i'm mostly wearing headphones), so that the sound of the engine and radio are loud, without becoming uncomfortable. I can't do that anymore, because the gun sounds would be just way too loud to be enjoyable. So just for the gun sounds, which like you said make only up a fraction of the actual flying time, i have to reduce the volume of practically every other sound. And for me, the engine and radio sounds are just too quite then.

 

I'm fine with the sounds themselves (i can't say i like them way more or less than the old ones), but the volume is just too loud. The volume balance of all different sound was just fine with the old sounds.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Matt

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Yup, need to tone them down just a bit in relation to the engine. I like them overall but think the "report" and bass sounds frrom the muzzle should be mixed back in slightly. It's a bit too mechanical sounding now.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

In those days recording studios had sound libraries filled with different samples.  I remember seeing vinyl records back in the early 70's that were made for these places to use.  There were volumes dedicated to the sound of different footsteps, chairs scraping, you name it.  Stock gun and aeroplane noises abounded too.  The radio station sound archive I visited as a kid had four aisles of records running from floor to ceiling, and that was a small one.

My parents still have a half dozen sound effects records in the basement somewhere.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I like them overall but think the "report" and bass sounds frrom the muzzle should be mixed back in slightly. It's a bit too mechanical sounding now.

Well as I said above there're some anecdotes stating that one mainly heared the meachincal noise of the guns, although this is surely different for each aircraft (lot of room for speculation).

 

Don't think the bass needs to be dialed back, just the volume. If you fired your guns on ground with the engine stopped/idling I'd expect some of the outside noise (including deep frequencies) to penetrate the canopy. If you're in midflight however and gun sounds were quieter the bass and some of the mechanical noise would "disappear" seamlessly in the mix of engine, wind and other sounds. The way it is now, once you press the trigger the engine sound and all others will become quieter.

 

As a sound modder for a different sim I have some expirience with sound engineering and know that no matter what you do sby will always complain (wind noise too loud/quiet, gun sounds to loud/quiet, engine noise has to much bass / is too light, ect). The only way to please at least the majority of people is making it customizeable.

 

Edit: Here's an example of what I meant.

 

Note: Due to inability to ajust volume in FMod I had to load the sounds into audacity for demonstration purposes only. None of the sounds have been modified for this demonstration. If any dev or mod feels this is against the agreement which forbids modification of any game content pls PM me so I can remove it.

https://youtu.be/3qLXTfQVNK0

First example is the situation ingame atm. The gun sound (MG151/20) is louder than the engine and does drown it.

 

Second example with ajusted volume. Gun sound is quieter and does mix with the engine sound. BBoth are clearly audioable although there's a noticable interferrence.

Edited August 11, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka_

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

8. FFB effects improved on all planes.

 

Force feed back joysticks that vibrate violently when stalling or turning or ground handling

Edited August 11, 2016 by 71st_AH_Mastiff

[RFG_Hisl]

The only way to please at least the majority of people is making it customizeable.

[216th_Peterla]

Awesome patch 

[9./JG27golani79]

Does anyone else have all the unlocks activated, does it work?

 

One day and one full re-install later (even after the hotfix), still nothing changed for me. Unless I am misunderstanding the updates in the post ;

 

I have done all I could in my power, several times gone to the website tried but nothing unlocks;

 

 

Being frequent players of the game I suppose no one else has an issue with the unlocks like me since you would have everything unlocked by playing the game for so long. One of the downsides in my opinion is the part of having to grind through the single player campaign in order to unlock things. I do not have the time to do these grinds on repetitive AI missions, it is a huge deterrent for me and some others who don't play the game religiously. Someone told me about this update, that it brought unlocks for the standard edition planes, but seeing that it doesn't work I might as well put this game to the side again.

 

Maybe contact support?

I used "Activate Unlocks" for BoM the other day and now after the hotfix they are all available.

 

8. FFB effects improved on all planes.

 

Force feed back joysticks that vibrate violently when stalling or turning or ground handling

 

Take a look at the settings - mine were reset so the stick shake was at 100%

Turned it down a bit and now it´s ok.

Edited August 11, 2016 by 9./JG27golani79

[Habu]

Does anyone else have all the unlocks activated, does it work?

 

 

 

 

One day and one full re-install later (even after the hotfix), still nothing changed for me. Unless I am misunderstanding the updates in the post ;

 

I have done all I could in my power, several times gone to the website tried but nothing unlocks;

 

 

Being frequent players of the game I suppose no one else has an issue with the unlocks like me since you would have everything unlocked by playing the game for so long. One of the downsides in my opinion is the part of having to grind through the single player campaign in order to unlock things. I do not have the time to do these grinds on repetitive AI missions, it is a huge deterrent for me and some others who don't play the game religiously. Someone told me about this update, that it brought unlocks for the standard edition planes, but seeing that it doesn't work I might as well put this game to the side again.

I unlocked the account (Bos standard) i use for my server, and it works.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Habu

[Adj]

This is a very good game and the developers are doing a great job of making it even better!

There have been so many improvements since I started playing it.

I really appreciate all of their hard work.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

5tuka, I was saying ADD the bass and report slightly but dial back the gun sounds overall. I'd like to hear the mechanical sounds less but only slightly.

 

It's just an opinion, certainly not a deal breaker and I'm sure I'll get used to it pretty quickly regardless.

Edited August 11, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[Reagan505]

I think the weapon sounds are great. A lot of guys have talked about hearing the metal casings as they are ejected from the aircraft. They are right, you shouldnt be able to hear them, (For the most part). Doesn't bother me though, still sounds good. Talking about this subject though, maybe you can try adjusting the sounds in regard to the diference in air pressure while in flight. I was a crew chief & flight engineer / gunner on Blackhawks and what I remember most with live firing was the low tones, thumping made via the difference in air pressure, (depending on where the weapon was pointed at the time of fire, etc). This video kind of demonstrates the sounds I'm referring to, hard to replicate without actually being on the bird pulling the trigger in-flight.

 

 

Great work so far on IL-2.. It gets better and better with every update. Looking forward to the future.

Edited August 11, 2016 by GFYS__Reagan505

[No601_Swallow]

I think the weapon sounds are great. A lot of guys have talked about hearing the metal casings as they are ejected from the aircraft. They are right, you shouldnt be able to hear them, (For the most part). Doesn't bother me though, still sounds good. Talking about this subject though, maybe you can try adjusting the sounds in regard to the diference in air pressure while in flight. I was a crew chief & flight engineer / gunner on Blackhawks and what I remember most with live firing was the low tones, thumping made via the difference in air pressure, (depending on where the weapon was pointed at the time of fire, etc)...

 

Great work so far on IL-2.. It gets better and better with every update. Looking forward to the future.

 

Great post. Many thanks. 

[Blitzen]

Probably asked & answered but how do I get smoke to work.I see the keystroke command under "Weapons": Drop bomb/Smoke but when I try the dedicated keystroke nothing happens...

[jeanba]

Tested yestearday and I loved it

[Venturi]

Gun sounds are great. FFB tweaking is v. good. Excellent update. Smacking in on easy fixes, but I am sure bigger ones are coming too.

[Brano]

Probably asked & answered but how do I get smoke to work.I see the keystroke command under "Weapons": Drop bomb/Smoke but when I try the dedicated keystroke nothing happens...

You have to equip your plane with smoke emitter/s

[TP_Silk]

Probably asked & answered but how do I get smoke to work.I see the keystroke command under "Weapons": Drop bomb/Smoke but when I try the dedicated keystroke nothing happens...

 

Same.

[seafireliv]

Gun sounds are totally arcade. Never going to hear the shell casings ejecting out. At best hear a muffled shot, but not what is currently going on.

 

The engine sound, in addition to wind at speed, is going to drown almost everything out or at least deaden it/muffle it to the point of barely audible. Gun firing was felt, not heard. P38 pilots reported on not hearing gun fire, just the instant slow down and the vibration. Plus other pilots of other planes, but the P38 has engines on the wings and the guns right in front of the pilot so if they aren't hearing them.... I know there will be "But there are stories of people hearing gun fire from behind!" That isn't possible due to sound attenuation, doppler effect and the higher source sounds immediately around the pilot.

 

.50 cal firing from a turbo prop A-29 in close formation: https://youtu.be/a2dU7YUcZR4?t=228

 

And since it will inevitably happen, the .50 cal is barely audible, but audible due to the aircraft being behind the one firing. When talking about sound attenuation and doppler effect, the aircraft in front of the aircraft firing would be impacted by those. Not to mention there's a significant noise level difference between piston aircraft and turboprops - piston being louder.

 

I have to agree. everything I`ve read about fighting in WW2 era aircraft indicated that you wouldn`t hear the guns so well.

 

The cannon sounds are nice, but I would prefer it barely audible if that`s how it was in reality.

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

As long as the flying and combat is simulated i'm fine with a few Hollywood sound effects, can we have louder bombs ?

[=FEW=ayamoth89]

Guys, can you add a key to select between different tanks? Because, in case of damage, it will be useful to use the damaged tank first before it runs out of fuel. And here comes the second problem: with your automatic tanks selector, you run out of fuel with only one tank damaged and it's really arcade/irrealistic!

Other problem: actually if you run out of oil/water/fuel you keep on streaming the liquid in the air.

[MadisonV44]

Guys, can you add a key to select between different tanks? Because, in case of damage, it will be useful to use the damaged tank first before it runs out of fuel. And here comes the second problem: with your automatic tanks selector, you run out of fuel with only one tank damaged and it's really arcade/irrealistic!

Other problem: actually if you run out of oil/water/fuel you keep on streaming the liquid in the air.

 

Pretty good point.

You should be considering posting this request in questions for Developers section, so we could have an answer on this one

[jokerBR]

8. In the future, when you choose to Activate Unlocks through our website we will include the skins as well as the modifications for either edition of the game. The earning of unlocks as a concept will be completely optional at that point.

 

Does this mean that if I want to have the skins unlocked I shouldn't unlock right now, or will the skins be automatically added in the future for those who unlock now thru site as well?

Edited August 12, 2016 by jokerBR

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

What I meant was, the sound suppression and helmet inside modern planes will suppress the sounds a lot better than what the technology 70 years ago could.

 

Personally I think it should be a gameplay option. Either loud gun sounds or lower. Then "everyone" would be happy if possible of course. 

I don't think that is necessary. Bringing up the bass tones and tuning down the mechanical sounds slightly should do it for most. The people complaining are the ones who are in line with that thought. The one's who "like" the new mechanical sounds are seem to be in the camp of "it doesn't bother me" for the most part. Moving both towards the center would seem to make both camps equally happy and not alienate either.

 

Of course there will still be, "that guy," but the tribes will be pacified.

[Blitzen]

You have to equip your plane with smoke emitter/s

Ah...with a little investigation I see it in the "Settings/Aerobatics" box & find such a lot of options too!! Thanks for giving me the hint!