Let's get nasty

[HagarTheHorrible]

The war in the East was a no holds barred nasty affair, brutal in the extreme with little quarter given or received.

 

Should this be reflected when playing on-line ?

 

Supposed, real life, examples of gentlemanly conduct between pilots in the West are often cited as reasons why players online should also act in a dignified and gentlemanly fashion. What if that wasn't the case in the East, should pilots complain if they are pursued without mercy, does saying "I'm only acting out reality" cut the mustard ?

[LukeFF]

Here we go again... 

 

Any bets on how how many pages this one will be?

[Uufflakke]

@LukeFF,

 

My thoughts too...

 

[Tone71]

There are no rules on gentlemanly conduct. In RoF some players will disable your plane, then disengage and allow you to limp home, others will hunt you down to the death. While the latter annoys me greatly, I think it's just a part of the game you have to accept, and it's nice to have a mix of attitudes, much like in RL.

[Maico]

My dear friends: 

No talk of Brutality or Nastiness.  Lets be Gentlemen and Fight like Gentlemen.  Go into every fight with pride and respect for your adversary.  Be kind to the noob and admire the veteran who just got the best of you.  Congratulate your victors, advise your victims, when it is proper to do so.  Take every defeat as a lesson in your shortcomings.  Gather all the information and use it to become a better pilot. 

  Don't make it about the plane.  We all have our favorites.  Make it about the skill and tactics. 

  Don't make it about your country is better than mine.  That will never end up well. 

  Don't make it about I am better than you.  Show your skill and folks will know you for it. Trust me, no one forgets the guy with skill.

  Don't ever think that you have lived how our grandfathers lived.  You will never smell the stench of war.  Hope you never feel the stinging of the cold thousands of meters above the earth.  Hope you never want for food or shelter.  Hope you never think this day may be your last. 

  This is after all, a game.  Play it like a gentleman.  Everyone will respect you for that.

 

Maico

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

I decide at the time if i will show mercy to my poor victim, sometimes a wing waggle and a "good luck in getting home"in chat, if you plane is disabled, sometimes il shoot you in your chute, sometimes il strafe you on the ground after you have crash landed and i always shoot planes taking off or landing if the server allows it.

 

 

All depends on the fight and my mood.

Edited November 24, 2013 by =BKHZ=Furbs

[HagarTheHorrible]

Behaviour should be up to individuals, however it still begs the question , should the brutality of the War in the East be used to define what is acceptable ? Forget the gentlemanly conduct thing and concentrate on whether the antagonism displayed by either side should be apart of how we play the game and what is acceptable as good conduct.

[DD_bongodriver]

How about we just log on and play the game however the mood takes just to kill the few hours we get to do it following 2 simple rules: don't cheat and have fun.....ok 3 simple rules, adding that if you suck don't complain.

[Sternjaeger]

IBTL

[Uufflakke]

IBTL

 

I had to look it up what that abbreviation means.

I suppose it is #1 and not #3.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=IBTL

[Panzerlang]

I hope the devs will allow us to deploy our 'chute manually.

[DD_bongodriver]

I hope the devs will allow us to deploy our 'chute manually.

 

yes this would be cool, and at the same time it would be good to stop the pilots doing a proper stabilised freefall as in reality most bailing crews were tumbling because freefal techniques had not even been invented yet, with the added limitation of potentially wrapping yourself in the chute from a bad tumble.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

I often let my crippled adversary go at the last minute. It's generally because I'm a lousy shot and I've used up all my ammo. A waggle of the wings and a salute and off I go before he can turn and bring his guns to bare!

[thx1138]

I will shoot opponents in their parachutes.

 

Sorry.

[FlatSpinMan]

I rarely venture online but if/when I do, I don't care beyond what the server rules are - eg, no vulching etc.

If the rules don't forbid it, it's not a cheat, and no one is being a dick, then I say go for it as the mood takes you. It's just a game. Again, as long as no-one is being a dick then there's no problem.

I will shoot opponents in their parachutes.

 

Sorry.

Me too, sometimes.

[Panzerlang]

In any online wars, where 'life' kind of matters (stats accrued for a DiD persona), I'd hope vSquad COs would forbid 'chute killing. Otherwise it'll lead, eventually, to a tit-for-tat regime that'll benefit nobody. A purely pragmatic consideration of course.

[FlatSpinMan]

Again, that's kind of a 'server rule' or 'code of conduct' thing, IMO.

[J5_Rumey]

A combat flight sim. A game. A fun hobby. Shooting someone down is fun, letting them go is boring. This chivalry notion is/was bogus in real life and is bogus in a game. Red=dead. Give no quarter and expect no quarter.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Guys you're all missing the point.

 

The topic is, should the way the war was fought on the Eastern front dictate or excuse the manner in which some players may wish to play the game if they play nasty ?

Edited November 24, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[Wombat]

My dear friends: 

No talk of Brutality or Nastiness.  Lets be Gentlemen and Fight like Gentlemen.  Go into every fight with pride and respect for your adversary.  Be kind to the noob and admire the veteran who just got the best of you.  Congratulate your victors, advise your victims, when it is proper to do so.  Take every defeat as a lesson in your shortcomings.  Gather all the information and use it to become a better pilot. 

  Don't make it about the plane.  We all have our favorites.  Make it about the skill and tactics. 

  Don't make it about your country is better than mine.  That will never end up well. 

  Don't make it about I am better than you.  Show your skill and folks will know you for it. Trust me, no one forgets the guy with skill.

  Don't ever think that you have lived how our grandfathers lived.  You will never smell the stench of war.  Hope you never feel the stinging of the cold thousands of meters above the earth.  Hope you never want for food or shelter.  Hope you never think this day may be your last. 

  This is after all, a game.  Play it like a gentleman.  Everyone will respect you for that.

 

Maico

Bravo Bravo, is this one of Winston Churchill's speeches ?

Well said Maico 

[SYN_Vorlander]

A combat flight sim. A game. A fun hobby. Shooting someone down is fun, letting them go is boring. This chivalry notion is/was bogus in real life and is bogus in a game. Red=dead. Give no quarter and expect no quarter.

+1

 

Kill them all

[Panzerlang]

Killing guys in their 'chutes will be fun. Until it's you with a multi-week/month persona with lots of kills and baubles and somebody does it to you.

[FlatSpinMan]

Guys you're all missing the point.

The topic is, should the way tuhe war was fought on the Eastern front dictate or excuse the manner in which some players may wish to play the game if they play nasty ?

No, we're saying (except of course those who disagree!:-)) it's just a game so do what you want within the host's rules. The theatre is equally irrelevant.

[Panzerlang]

I suspect we'll end up with a percentage of pilots who never achieve a good streak and resort to 'chute killing and ramming as a way to relieve their frustration.

 

But it happened in real life so the gaming abstraction of it will be legit. I'm sure it'll spark a good few forum fights/thread-locks/bannings though, if past experience is anything to go by.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Killing guys in their 'chutes will be fun. Until it's you with a multi-week/month persona with lots of kills and baubles and somebody does it to you.

 

yep, it sucks and i call the guy who did a lot of nasty names, but then i just click re-fly.

[=RvE=Windmills]

Pointless discussion, this is all up to the rules of the particular server you're playing on.

[Panzerlang]

The kind of people who do it are usually frustrated poor pilots and/or have RL issues. There was a genuine reason for doing it to enemy pilots behind their own lines, however unpleasant it was; they could be flying again the next day and killing your comrades.

 

In a game there's absolutely zero excuse for it other than the word in the thread's topic: "nasty".

[=38=Tatarenko]

I can see that getting rocketed at base while warming your engine will suck. However I suspect that all servers will have pre-warmed engines.

 

Anyway, what is an IL-2 pilot mean to do? Dogfight? Base camps ftw.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

The kind of people who do it are usually frustrated poor pilots and/or have RL issues. There was a genuine reason for doing it to enemy pilots behind their own lines, however unpleasant it was; they could be flying again the next day and killing your comrades.

 

In a game there's absolutely zero excuse for it other than the word in the thread's topic: "nasty".

 

I do it because its fun, and only a game.

if it happens to me i have no complaint, its only a game.

 

If the server rules say no chute killing/vuching/strafing grounded planes/planes landing or taking off, i don't do it or join another server.

 

If its in the rules, you should expect it might happen and have no complaint or join another server.

Edited November 24, 2013 by =BKHZ=Furbs

[FlatSpinMan]

The kind of people who do it are usually frustrated poor pilots and/or have RL issues.

 

In a game there's absolutely zero excuse for it other than the word in the thread's topic: "nasty".

Interesting. Do the members here know that you conduct detailed video and psychological surveillance and analysis of them?

I only assume you do this given the certainty of your statement above. Surely you wouldn't say such a strong thing without empirical evidence. Unless, of course, it was merely your humble opinion? But then surely you would not stoop to such insults, knowing that they are baseless and unworthy of anyone attempting to uphold moral standards on a computer game forum?

Hmm, I find the matter of your post most perplexing.

[SYN_Ricky]

Until you're not breaking the server/campaign/mission rules I don't see any problems. Playing on the Russian side I can imagine trying to do a taran if I find myself wounded in a crippled plane surrounded by the enemy.

[Furio]

This thread reminds me all the debates about violent games and the damage they do to children immature personalities.

If I’m not mistaken, here we are somewhat grown up, and any damage to our personality is already done. However, I see nothing wrong in using properly words. This is a game. In my opinion, proper words to qualify the way a game is played are: do your best to win, respect the rules. Fair play is welcome, and some playful nastiness should be tolerated.

Who knows: perhaps this thread could avoid locking…

[thx1138]

Just food for thought. Since we all want some genuine realism with this sim (and are getting it !)

 

Cmdr Thomas Blackburn of VF 17 (11 kills, 10 of them fighters) wrote in his book that downing enemy pilots was the important thing no matter how one got them. (he was a chute shooter supporter)

 

In ground combat, the same went for tank crews. Both allies and axis went after crews that bailed out of disabled tanks on the battlefield. (didnt want them getting into another tank)

 

Both of the above show what is important in war. Eliminating the enemy... It's our case it's not about killing virtual machines, but virtual people. We do it in BF 3 and BF 4, so what's the difference here ? Back in the 2004 -2008 timeframe I used to fly Spits vs 109's and my fav, Zekes vs Wildcats. In both there was a set limit on pilots and planes. And every now and then you would get close to the limit and want to kill off as many pilots as fast as possible, very rarely, but it happened.

 

I've been chute killed, I've been on pourpose rammed, and TK'd before. The absoulute WORST for me is to have someone shoulder steal my kill. These people are the lowest kind of player ! When any of the above happen, I just give my monitor the international peace sign and hit refly.

 

NeWay... I will always fly how the servers allow, and I always follow the rules period. I'm more worried flying well enough first as it is.

[Revvin]

The war in the East was a no holds barred nasty affair, brutal in the extreme with little quarter given or received.

 

Should this be reflected when playing on-line ?

 

Supposed, real life, examples of gentlemanly conduct between pilots in the West are often cited as reasons why players online should also act in a dignified and gentlemanly fashion. What if that wasn't the case in the East, should pilots complain if they are pursued without mercy, does saying "I'm only acting out reality" cut the mustard ?

 

I don't know why people get so hung up on how other people play, its a game/simulation depending on how serious you want to take yourself. In multiplayer we'll be shooting each other down with unhistorical goals such as score etc. I got tired of players in Aces High who only like to circle jerk in an endless furball and moan about those of us who flew bombers came and spoilt their fun. It wasn't like we hacked in bombers to spoil their fun they were put there by the developers along with a basic strategic system as part of the overall arena objective to win. I'd be more than happy for them to stay down in the weeds chasing each others tails because it meant up high I had less cap to worry about

 

Here we go again... 

 

Any bets on how how many pages this one will be?

 

I think perhaps 5 pages before it starts getting out of control by those trying to install some misplaced sense of chivalry upon us and 2 pages before Raaaid posts some incomprehensible gibberish that makes us all read it an exclaim "WTF"

[thx1138]

 and 2 pages before Raaaid posts some incomprehensible gibberish that makes us all read it an exclaim "WTF"

 

 

ROFLMAO !!

 

 

And crump will find a manual that says it didn't happen

 

IBTL

Edited November 24, 2013 by thx1138

[DD_bongodriver]

5.......4........3........2........1..........raaaaid post!!!!!!

[Furio]

Odd. I read violent, personal and nasty posts about landing gears or other technical stuff, and look now: we are talking about nastiness in a very civil and sedate way, with perfect chivalry.

 

 

 

Oh, I like Raaaid gibberish!

[Uriah]

taking a different perspective,  if your goal is to kill the enemy and survive it is bad tactic to pursue a damaged plane much. It is also bad tactic to dive down on an enemy and dog fight.  Best to take your shot and get back high.  Spending time makeing sure your enemy is killed is a sure way to get killed in real life and a not rack up points in a game.  Hey. its a game.  I don't care about the points, I love the dog fight and I love to see my game enemy go down in flames.   I find I don't get to savor my victories very long.

[Matt]

As long kill messages show up, i really see no reason to keep firing on a killed enemy plane.

 

I don't like to waste ammo or time without getting any benefit from that and put myself in the position to get killed myself more quickly.

 

If other people will do that, i guess that will turn into an advantage more often than not.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Could we just say...stick to the server rules, apart from that, do what you like?