New damage model?

[E69_geramos109]

Has someone the impression that now ammo is weaker?

Before i was hit and allways my 109 is dead. Now i take hits and i can return and survive. Same for russians here, before with a good brust of the mg151 you can shotdown a yak, breack a wing etc but now they absorbe tons of bullets.

Just today i hit with at least 8 impacts one lagg3 and only a few oil smoke.

The i16 can absorve a lot more than others i have the impression

 

I dont know if is more realistic or not but i liked how was before, and before the russians were quite strong but ok, you aim well and you take 6 20 hits and you have the kill. His engine can resist much more time with malfuntion but now is likd a joke.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Surely placebo, there hasn't been any major change to ammunition/armour since the armour plate efficiency was increased, around when tanks were introduced.

 

Probably just luck/bad luck, last Saturday during InWar Jordan sent a Bf-109 down engulfed in flames and forced another to land with a coolant leak with just two bursts from a Yak-1 for example.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Surely placebo, there hasn't been any major change to ammunition/armour since the armour plate efficiency was increased, around when tanks were introduced.

Probably just luck/bad luck, last Saturday during InWar Jordan sent a Bf-109 down engulfed in flames and forced another to land with a coolant leak with just two bursts from a Yak-1 for example.

I believe the IL-2 just had a "buff" to armor as well.

[SwallowFire]

I just have an impression that Russian planes became are much much tougher than German planes, especially il-2 and pe-2. I know these two planes were famous for being sturdy historically but is it a bit overdone in this sim?  And it seems that a youtuber shares my feelings too. At around 4 min he talked about the damage model. I have to admit I do not have any proof here but I just wanna see how you guys feel and I wanna see this topic being discussed in the community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oobd2_ko4Co 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The Ju-88 is up there in damage resistance as well, I can barely ever get one down.

 

The Pe-2 and Il-2 feel like realistic tough nuts to crack, and while they are structurally tough the engines are flimsy and more often than not I end up on my belly somewhere between the target and home.

[LLv34_Temuri]

The Ju-88 is up there in damage resistance as well, I can barely ever get one down.

 

The Pe-2 and Il-2 feel like realistic tough nuts to crack, and while they are structurally tough the engines are flimsy and more often than not I end up on my belly somewhere between the target and home.

I agree. Even the 88 has its weakness. Just yesterday I was amazed how easily the Ju-88's motors caught fire. Afterwards, looking at the stats, it seems 10 rounds of 20 mm ShVAK hit the plane, I bet most of them hit the engines. In addition, an MG34 AA can easily destroy the motor from Il-2. It's more a question of where you aim and hit than the planes being unrealistically tough.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Yup, shooting down aircraft is way more of than 'point and shoot'. With the Pe-2, Ju-88 and He-111 it's easy to think the aircraft is invulnerable if you hit 100 shells but all go through the fuselage without dealing any critical damage.

 

Engines, fuel tanks, crew and control surfaces make the best targets. The elevators are very was to hit from behind and losing them will almost certainly send the aircraft down.

Edited July 27, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[E69_geramos109]

Problem with p2 is not the resistance, is the sniper at the back. With only 1 heavy gun he allways hits you and makes kind of imposible to attack him. I attack a lot of them with the foke at 800kpm and they did not fail. One of them on TAW was landing to capture an arfield and i make a huge dive in to him. He blow my wing and is not bad luck, allways the same .

Americans have to change their B17 for P2.

Edited July 27, 2016 by E69_geramos109

[GrendelsDad]

Not proud to say...but if I dive on an IL2 I go for the pilot as I have found it hard to bring down otherwise.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The AI is the same as anywhere else for the Pe-2, the only difference is that the Pe-2 has heavy armament with a good field of fire, which combined with its speed becomes lethal.

 

The Ju-88 is a similar story - because of its speed, unless you are very fast and mind your angles your engine will be hit.

 

GrendelsDad, nothing to be ashamed about - that's the most efficient way

[Willy__]

German gunners are really useless... The only ones that are not totally bonkers are the ones of the ju88. I was looking to some videos of russian attacking german aircraft, they come straight from the six and yet the german gunners fail to do any damage, meanwhile, if you do that to any Pe2 you're toast in no time.

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

yea the German  rear gunners are poor and the 88 and 110 are pretty flimsy planes, i'm finding it pretty hard to get home alive.

[Willy__]

 

 

the 88 and 110 are pretty flimsy planes

 

The 88 is quite sturdy. But the 110 I must agree with you, it has glass wings. 

[Yogiflight]

To be honest, I don´t understand this glasswing argument for the 110. It is the plane, I fly most, but I rarely ever lost a wing, for me it is most times a lost engine.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

From what I've seen the Bf-110 loses its wing when the leading edge of the wing root is damaged. From there the airflow does the rest, eventually ripping it off. I've never thought it to be unusual, and I get missing wings on the LaGG-3 extremely often.

[SYN_Haashashin]

Not proud to say...but if I dive on an IL2 I go for the pilot as I have found it hard to bring down otherwise.

 

Well...I allways, no matter which plane I encounter, try to aim to the pilot/engine zone!!

[Livai]

 

 

Surely placebo

 

Hmmm, placebo and why the planes explode into two pieces everytime I hit them now? Planes lose their tail section everytime maybe they not need them to fly? Should be my new convergence that I set to create some impressive plane cuts.

[MadisonV44]

I had a very strange feeling with my fly mate at the very first release of the 2.00. After a day testing the LW armament, it seemed to be much more effective, much much more obviously (I didn't test the red gunnery at this time) ... at this level it was not placebo effect (and we were several pilots to notice the change). 

 

The day after, we had a new patch and the miracle was gone. 

 

We also noticed a lot of change in flying sensations at every patch. From a patch to another we all came to the same result, sharing our flight impressions after the combat, and without concertation (maybe related to the global physics, or the fly model itself). Maybe because we were specialized and focus on one plane only at this time... the changes were significant. 

 

From our concerted point of view this was not placebo but it was also not documented in the patch release list. 

[Willy__]

It has been strange since the patch they changed the FM of the FW190. I also share the same feelings as MadisonV44 described. Maybe its not placebo afterall....

[ACG_pezman]

When I get a tail in the Pe-2, I'll take it into a dive. I can almost fly as fast as the fighters in level flight and can easily fly as fast as them in a dive. Doing so forces the LW pilot to break off their attack or sit in my firing zone and die on my six.

 

Pe-2 is well armed, fast, and rugged. However it's lack of modern convenience (like prop feathering) means any moderate to substantial engine damage will down the aircraft. It can NOT fly on one engine, too much drag is induced. The best you can do is a slow, controlled, powered glide to the ground (like Lucas said).

 

If attacking the Pe-2 is so hard from behind, then why do so many LW pilots attempt to bring it down this way? Why not take your time and line up on the aircraft's high 2 o'clock or 10 o'clock then dive in at a angle?

 

It's hard, because if you miss your shot, that fast Pe-2 will pull away and leave you in the dust. So you have to waste a lot of time getting back into the correct position. Most people don't have the patience for that and just return on the Pe-2's 6 o'clock and get killed.

 

German bombers have smaller caliber guns with more dead zones in the firing line. Direct 6 o'clock attacks on a Ju-88 are a bad idea, those dual 7.62mm on the bottom will tear you apart, but not such a bad idea on the He-111 because only one gun can really shoot at you and only if you get too low. Otherwise you can force the top gunner to shoot at his own tail to get you, which they usually won't do. Hence the fork tail on the Pe-2 and 110, but the 110 is lacking defensive power.

[ShamrockOneFive]

It has been strange since the patch they changed the FM of the FW190. I also share the same feelings as MadisonV44 described. Maybe its not placebo afterall....

 

It's called groupthink and its surprisingly easy to fall into the trap. So it still sounds like placebo effect.

 

Unless you run a consistent test (usually multiple times), record the results, and then test again after a follow up patch its very difficult to corroborate with any certainty.

[MadisonV44]

could not agree more on the FW Herr_Istruba

 

It's called groupthink and its surprisingly easy to fall into the trap. So it still sounds like placebo effect.

 

Unless you run a consistent test (usually multiple times), record the results, and then test again after a follow up patch its very difficult to corroborate with any certainty.

 

Yes it was consistent, yes it was multiples times, and yes I was not alone to come to this conclusion.

Every pilot of the test group had more than 15+ exp flying online every day together and are not dreamers looking at how much the grass is bending when we put the full power

 

 

[ShamrockOneFive]

could not agree more on the FW Herr_Istruba

 

 

Yes it was consistent, yes it was multiples times, and yes I was not alone to come to this conclusion.

Every pilot of the test group had more than 15+ exp flying online every day together and are not dreamers looking at how much the grass is bending when we put the full power

 

That's still taken in combat conditions? Or during more controlled experiments?

[Willy__]

The 23mm Death Star laser is really good for that due to its flatter trajectory and devastating damage effects.

 

I liked that nickname for those 23mm of depleted uranium.

 

   

[MadisonV44]

That's still taken in combat conditions? Or during more controlled experiments?

Alternating combat and then offline and online test on unit test subject. 

We do that systematically at each patch release and we have a lot of surprises vs documented changes

Edited August 2, 2016 by MadisonV44

[ShamrockOneFive]

Alternating combat and then offline and online test on unit test subject. 

We do that systematically at each patch release and we have a lot of surprises vs documented changes

 

That type of systematic testing I'm much more likely to believe than some of the anecdotal stuff for sure. Do you guys post any of the results? I'd be curious to see some of these surprises.

Edited August 3, 2016 by ShamrockOneFive

[MadisonV44]

First hint : before each update, keep the previous patch in a safe backup to compare quickly on live basis and go back and forth between 2 versions easily.

Keep in mind to launch it offline unless it will be flagged by the game as "expired" version, as a result you won't be able able to launch it anymore.

 

Based on that you will discover the other side of the release notes.

 

Of course it a long way and it is sooo difficult to test / feel every change when flying several planes. But from the time I use to fly my beloved FW and just this one, every day, with same flying counterparts, it became obvious that there are a lot of changes at each patch. 

[Monostripezebra]

This topic is funny, as it shows how much perception and psychology is even in such fixed, low complexity settings as flightsims. ;=)

 

the ai is really equally useless for all planes a like and misses sure shots.. while it somehow in between mangages the occasional difficult deflection shots extremly well. That is not a new theme and tons of stuff has been written about it on RoF forums and other sims over the years.. in the end, do your own shooting or even better bring a gunner, regardless of what side your on, it makes a lot more fun and more realistic reargun behaviour. And don´t park on the 6 of any multicrew plane unless you know how to surpress/kill the gunner.. that works, too.

 

 

When I get a tail in the Pe-2, I'll take it into a dive. I can almost fly as fast as the fighters in level flight and can easily fly as fast as them in a dive. Doing so forces the LW pilot to break off their attack or sit in my firing zone and die on my six.

Pe-2 is well armed, fast, and rugged. However it's lack of modern convenience (like prop feathering) means any moderate to substantial engine damage will down the aircraft. It can NOT fly on one engine, too much drag is induced. The best you can do is a slow, controlled, powered glide to the ground (like Lucas said).

 

Actually, it is not that bad... you can´t fly on forever, but with all radiators of the bad engine closed and the pitch set to the coarsest possible, the Pe2 still gets home on the map distance we have. It took me a bit to figure it out, but you can even trim to keep the ball centered.. the most vulnerable damage era it has for flight continuation are those elevators.

 

https://youtu.be/WmNlM0hLq4g?t=169

https://youtu.be/88b9fDXmnRo?t=377

Edited August 3, 2016 by Dr_Zeebra

[SAG]

This topic is funny, as it shows how much perception and psychology is even in such fixed, low complexity settings as flightsims. ;=)

 

the ai is really equally useless for all planes a like and misses sure shots.. while it somehow in between mangages the occasional difficult deflection shots extremly well. That is not a new theme and tons of stuff has been written about it on RoF forums and other sims over the years.. in the end, do your own shooting or even better bring a gunner, regardless of what side your on, it makes a lot more fun and more realistic reargun behaviour. And don´t park on the 6 of any multicrew plane unless you know how to surpress/kill the gunner.. that works, too.

 

 

 

Actually, it is not that bad... you can´t fly on forever, but with all radiators of the bad engine closed and the pitch set to the coarsest possible, the Pe2 still gets home on the map distance we have. It took me a bit to figure it out, but you can even trim to keep the ball centered.. the most vulnerable damage era it has for flight continuation are those elevators.

 

https://youtu.be/WmNlM0hLq4g?t=169

https://youtu.be/88b9fDXmnRo?t=377

 

 

i dont think that, after 603 hours flying this sim i have ever drifted into my parking spot XD

[MadisonV44]

19.G//Rekt thanks for the gret pic , you make my day 

[C6_iceheart]

It has been strange since the patch they changed the FM of the FW190. I also share the same feelings as MadisonV44 described. Maybe its not placebo afterall....

+1