Blakhart Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 Hello friends. I saw many complains about planeset in TAW and limitations. I strongly belive that everything can be solved by compromise, so here we are open for big discussion about the planesets. Please add own 5 cents to the topic with own vision of the planeset and limitations. Just have in mind that you must keep some basic rules. 1. Not every player have BoM so basic planes should be from BoS. In other way TAW will loose many of the players. 2. Basic plane MUST be the one which was commonly used in the conflict over Stalingrad in 1942. 3. Basic plane CANT be better than any other extra plane achieved by combat mission/ points system. In other way people will dont have motivation to risk and fly for the AK/GK. 4. You have to choose planeset for fighters and bombers. I dont care that you have only experience in only one group of planes.You must create a whole system. If you say you dont know how to balance it, it means you shouldnt take part in this discussion because you dont have enough knowldge or experience. 5. Ok, you created the planeset, now we will collect different options from different players and then other people will choose the best one. Just have in mind that if you are a blue or red fanboy and want to boost one of the sides othe people will just ignore you and your idea. Thanks in advance!!! Have fun! Have fun with creating. I give you guys 7 days till I`ll choose the most balanced and fair options and then put for a voting in this topic. Most fair and balanced means No Lagg-3 vs 109 F-4 as basic and no Yak-1 vs 109 G-2.
Monostripezebra Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 Just use what was there, historically, give each side a wide range of airfields to circumvent spawn camping and have the AAA more equal. Maaaybe some sort of quorum balance factor like when flying 1:3 you can lose 3 planes before getting one taken away to motivate more balanced sides.. after all noone wants an ahistorical luftwaffe only sausage feast where 5 109s guys queue over a nearly undefended airfield for the next lone yak to spawn ;=) some things are simple
NN_RugbyGoth Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 I'm ok with current planeset, it's balanced for me. Just obtaining the first plane quicker could be a thing for people who want to fly their beloved ones. BoS planeset : 4 LaGG3 - 4 G2 inf Il2 1942 - inf Ju87 (without 1000kg and 1800 kg) 2 pe287 - 2 He111 BoM planeset: 1 I16 - 1 E7 1 Il2 1941 - 1 110 2 P40 - 2 MC202 The first plane should be gained after only 3 battle missions (yak1 for russians, F4 for germans) Then the next would be obtained after 5 battle missions.
Roast Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 I would still like to see the IAR-80A or IAR-81 and the I-153 as part of the BOS planeset ..
Geleitzug Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) Actually I would prefer to have one fighter and one bomber/attack airplane unlimited, in order to keep it balanced and reduce the frustration factor - my suggestion would be the 109E-7 / IL-16 respectivelly the F-2 with 15mm canon / LaGG 3 -29 (for those who don't have BOM) as unlimited fighter and the Ju-87 / IL-2 with the bomb limitations as bomber/attack airplane. For the rest the planeset could be kept as is but I would also support NN_RugbyGoth's idea to recuperate the first airplane from a row already after the third succesfull mission instead of the fifth. Also the flak accuracy should be reconsidered as a single/double player attack with a slow plane like the Ju-87 in almost all cases ends with a downing by Flak - well, I don't have the experience how it was in real life (thank's god !), but it seems to me a bit overstated and reduces the chance to return succesfully to your base and get the points for groundkills to almost zero ! Let me add one comment: Good job guys, great server, great idea and it makes really a lot of fun to fly TAW ! - just to bring that up in times where complaints are dropped so easily on those who spend their valuable time for free just for the pleasure of the community... Edited July 26, 2016 by Geleitzug
VBF-12_Stick-95 Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 My 5 cents worth. I really didn't have too much concern with the plane set from this latest campaign. I think there are a few things that could be tweaked though, some posted previously. 1. I think Gelitzug's idea of having both one fighter type and one attack plane type in unlimited numbers makes sense, both from an offensive and defensive perspective. It is also a matter of attracting new pilots. Fighter: LaGG-3 and Me-109 G2 (the 190E7 and I-16 would be great if everyone had BOM). Attack: IL-2 1942 and Stuka. 2. IRL, at the start of any campaign, each side usually has full resources of men and equipment available. Over time the resources are depleted through attrition. Same should go in TAW. All plane types that will be available in the game should start at full complement. 3. Balance the bomber numbers to fighters, at least to some extent. What I mean by this. If there are 5 types of fighters each at 2 available that is 10 aircraft ready to go for a fighter pilot. If you fly mostly bombers and there are only 2 types of bombers with 2 each available that is only 4 aircraft for a pilot. Flying time is longer for bombing as well, i.e., slower aircraft, getting to altitude, avoiding direct routes, etc. So trying to earn the Combat Missions necessary to replenish your losses takes longer. Someone else mentioned that flight times over a certain period, say 50 minutes, in bombers (Pe-2s, Ju-88, He-111 only) might get a Combat Mission bump. 4. If possible, pilots who fly outnumbered should receive a benefit to their Combat Missions based on the odds at the time of spawn. Benefit could be if odds are 2:1 or greater they receive 2 Combat Missions for the sortie instead of 1, assuming they meet all flight criteria. 5. At campaign registration, the Pilot Profile should include check boxes for the types of aircraft they own so the script only shows these in the stats and planes available. Cheers!
ShephardCSAF_Shephard Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 My litlle sugestion. After campaign reštart can restart number of the planes?
Blakhart Posted July 27, 2016 Author Posted July 27, 2016 I see we didnt understandd each other... What I ask here is to present own idea of WHOLE planeset. Tips, advices plz direct to the main topic about the TAW. Here I open the discussion mostly for all those who had complains: - about BoM/BoS planes usage - about limitations - about bombs - about using LaGG vs 109 F-2 so:Basic Fighter planes - names - numbers Basic Bomber planes - names - numbers Extra Fighter planes - names - numbers Extra Bomber planes - names - numbers etc.
Geleitzug Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) Ok - here we go... Blue: Basic fighter: 109E-7 (without bombload) respectivelly 109G-2 (without bombload) / number: unlimited 109F-2 (no restrictions) / number: 2/2 Macchi 202 / number: 2/2 Extra fighter: 109F-4 / number: 0/2 190 A-3 / number: 0/2 Basic Fighter bomber: 110E-2 (without SC-1000) / number: 1/4 Basic Bomber: Ju87D-3 (without SC-1000 and SC-1800) / number: unlimited Ju-88 (without SC-1800) / number: 1/2 He 111 (without SC-1800 and SC-2500) / number: 2/2 Transporter: Ju-88 (without bombs) / number: unlimited He-111(without bombs) / number: unlimited Red: Basic fighter: IL-16 respectivelly LaGG-3 s.29 / number: unlimited La-5 / number: 2/2 P-40 / number: 2/2 Extra fighter: MiG-3 / number: 0/2 Yak-1 / number: 0/2 Basic Fighter bomber: IL-2 1941 / number: 1/4 Basic Bomber: IL-2 1942 / number: unlimited Pe-2 ser 35 / number: 1/2 Pe-2 ser 87 / number: 2/2 Transporter: Pe-2 ser 35 (without bombs) / number: unlimited Pe-2 ser 87 (without bombs) / number: unlimited First plane should be recovered after 3 succesful missions, second, etc. plane after 5 missions Edit: I've corrected the blue side's start fighter set as I mixed the 109G-2 and the F-2 (F-2 is a BoM as well as the 109E-7)... Edited July 27, 2016 by Geleitzug
VBF-12_Stick-95 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) The attached PDF is my suggestion for a TAW plane set. It is primarily based on the assumption that the suggestion posted above is implemented. 5. At campaign registration, the Pilot Profile should include check boxes for the types of aircraft they own so the script only shows these in the stats and planes available. This would allow different plane sets and limits per pilot based on their ownership of the game. By doing so, it would not turn pilots away from the server because they lacking certain planes. It also allows all players regardless of different game versions to still have planes with Unlimited quantities. I also took into account the following suggestion. 3. Balance the bomber numbers to fighters, at least to some extent. **etc.** Bombers capable of level bombing would therefore have higher numbers available to them. EDIT: I also incorporated this suggestion. 1. I think Gelitzug's idea of having both one fighter type and one attack plane type in unlimited numbers makes sense, both from an offensive and defensive perspective. The numbers I put together as an example and could certainly be adjusted. Just trying to get the idea presented. And yes, if you own both BOS and BOM you would start the campaign with more available aircraft. Players could always remedy this by purchasing BOM. Transports would also need to be added. Had to put it in PDF format TAW plane set.pdf Edited July 27, 2016 by 12.OIAE_Stick-95
=2ndSS=HolyWar Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) Basic fighter: 109E-7 (without bombload) respectivelly 109F-2 (without bombload) / number: unlimited (or 4/4) 109G-2(no restrictions) / number: 2/2 Macchi 202 / number: 2/2 Extra fighter: 109F-4 / number: 0/2 190 A-3 / number: 0/2 Basic Fighter bomber: 110E-2 (without SC-1000) / number: 1/4 Basic Bomber: Ju87D-3 (without SC-1000 and SC-1800) / number: unlimited Ju-88 (without SC-1800) / number: 1/2 He 111 (without SC-1800 and SC-2500) / number: 2/2 Transporter: Ju-88 (without bombs) / number: unlimited He-111(without bombs) / number: unlimited Red: Basic fighter: IL-16 respectivelly Yak-1 / number: unlimited (or 4/4) La-5 / number: 2/2 LaGG-3 s.29 / number: 2/2 Extra fighter: MiG-3 / number: 0/2 P-40 / number: 0/2 Basic Fighter bomber: IL-2 1941 / number: 1/4 Basic Bomber: IL-2 1942 / number: unlimited Pe-2 ser 35 / number: 1/2 Pe-2 ser 87 / number: 2/2 Transporter: Pe-2 ser 35 (without bombs) / number: unlimited Pe-2 ser 87 (without bombs) / number: unlimited Edited July 27, 2016 by =2ndSS=HolyWar 1
Monostripezebra Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 just some base ideas: a) have the unlimited aircraft those which are hardest to use mission relevantly. Instead of attackers using for instance the P-40 without bombs etc. would enable people to still fly and re-gain aircraft but it would be much harder to abuse as spamming targets at no cost. With teamwork however you still be a good asset to your team in these planes, strafing and intercepting bombers. German side could maybe have the macci. b) have classes.. for instance: if you register as attacker pilot, your attackers re-supply first and you get fewer other planes
MiGCap Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Actually I would prefer to have one fighter and one bomber/attack airplane unlimited, in order to keep it balanced and reduce the frustration factor - my suggestion would be the 109E-7 / IL-16 respectivelly the F-2 with 15mm canon / LaGG 3 -29 (for those who don't have BOM) as unlimited fighter and the Ju-87 / IL-2 with the bomb limitations as bomber/attack airplane. For the rest the planeset could be kept as is but I would also support NN_RugbyGoth's idea to recuperate the first airplane from a row already after the third succesfull mission instead of the fifth. Also the flak accuracy should be reconsidered as a single/double player attack with a slow plane like the Ju-87 in almost all cases ends with a downing by Flak - well, I don't have the experience how it was in real life (thank's god !), but it seems to me a bit overstated and reduces the chance to return succesfully to your base and get the points for groundkills to almost zero ! Let me add one comment: Good job guys, great server, great idea and it makes really a lot of fun to fly TAW ! - just to bring that up in times where complaints are dropped so easily on those who spend their valuable time for free just for the pleasure of the community... Exactly my opinion. No fun for the average player when he is down to the unlimited Ju 87 source and dies on every attack in the heavy flak defence.
ER*Melhilion Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 My suggestion ( without knowing whether it is from the script possible ) Basic Fighter BoM 109E-7 I-16 unlimited BoS 109G-2 LaGG3 unlimited Basic Bomber BoM 110E-2 IL-2 41 unlimited BoS 87D-3 IL-2 42 unlimited So have the owners of only one part of the IL-2 series an unlimited fighter and bomber. The owners of both parts have a larger selection to choose an aircraft that meets their preferences better and maybe it stimulates some pilots to add itself the missing part. Extra Bomber BoM 88A-4 Pe-2 0/2 BoS 111H-4 Pe-2 0/2 Extra planes should always be earned. Extra Fighter BoM 109F-2 MiG-3 0/1 BoM Mc-202 P-40 0/1 BoS 190A-3 LA-5 0/0 0/1 available with a rank X BoS 109F-4 Yak-1 0/0 0/1 available with a rank Y ( Y > X ) The ranks should not only be a beautiful picture in the profile, but also make a difference. As an example, you get some planes only from a certain rank. And maybe the ranks should have a positive impact on the successful missions number to get a new aircraft. (Lowest Rank = 5 successful missions, highest Rank = 1 - 2 successful missions) And the extra aircraft should depend of the used type ( Fighter / Bomber ). It is annoying when a pure bomber pilot get Fighters, which not be used. Vice-versa. ( 5 successful Bomber missions = 1 Bomber, 5 successful Fighter missions = 1 Fighter ) Mel
=TrSh=AlexVVV Posted July 29, 2016 Posted July 29, 2016 Blue: Basic fighter: Bf-109F-4 4/4 FW-190 2/2 Macchi 202 2/2 Extra fighter: Bf-109F-2 0/2 Bf-109E-7 0/2 Red: Basic fighter: Yak-1 4/4 La-5 2/2 I-16 2/2 Extra fighter: MiG-3 0/2 LaGG-3 0/2 Bf-109F-2 vs LaGG-3 is too easy and funny for blue pilots. 2
HR_Tofolo Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 While I enjoy the current planeset pretty much, I'd like to suggest something in the way Blakhart firstly proposed to us. The aircraft problem is that after those 5 missions you barely can guess what plane you'll be given, so instead of that, can we get a "selection menu" inside the pilot profile? Of course here there has to be some kind of puntuatioin criteria otherwise mostly everyone will be selecting Yak-1s and F-4s (blakhart's AK/GK scoring or similar?) so once the pilot has fulfilled that specific criteria he will acces his profile and select (for instance a dropdown menu in the a/c number or a new selection menu (i'm just suggesting the idea not the interface) whatever the aircraft he would like to get. That way you'll be satisfying dedicated fighter/bomber players and exclusive BoS players who don't own yet BoM. The limit of aicraft is pretty much ok for me (i'd increase the I-16s and E-7s maximum) Another proposal which I think it has already been said is the option to share/re-assing aircraft with your squadmates. But first I think that the pilot account has to be linked to his ingame ID number not the nick, otherwise you'll see new 'ghost' profiles just to replenish someone's hangar. My two cents on this fantastic campaign system. Thanks team.
Blakhart Posted July 30, 2016 Author Posted July 30, 2016 Yak 1 and F-4 as a basic :D. Have you read what I wrote on 1st post? #Tofolo If the Kathon will have time to set the planeset with point system there will be no longer need for making 5combat missions to collect new planes.
=TrSh=AlexVVV Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Yak 1 and F-4 as a basic :D. Have you read what I wrote on 1st post? Yes I have. "No Lagg-3 vs 109 F-4 as basic and no Yak-1 vs 109 G-2." Where you wrote about Yak-1 vs F4?
StG2_Juuti Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 109 F4 Yak1 as basic planes means an another WOL Server! Fully agree with Blakhart. Both planes are OP in comparision to the other typs.
Blakhart Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 3. Basic plane CANT be better than any other extra plane achieved by combat mission/ points system. In other way people will dont have motivation to risk and fly for the AK/GK.
=TrSh=AlexVVV Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 Bf-109 F2 and G2 is better fighters than FW-190 so why F2 in start planeset? )
Blakhart Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 Compare all factors and you will find the answer. Or you can just take FW190 and try to fly on it after the Devs made last FM changes. Good luck.
=TrSh=AlexVVV Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 Compare all factors and you will find the answer. Or you can just take FW190 and try to fly on it after the Devs made last FM changes. Good luck. So you can not effectively use the worst blue fighter(FW-190) but red team must to fly on worst red fighter(LaGG-3) in start planeset? ))
Blakhart Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 Take FW-190 and I`ll take LaGG-3 and lets make a simulation of combat, lets check which plane is worst. After 1 pass you will just run away with FW 190... 1 turn in FW -> stallIn LaGG 3 you can make a defence, stall fight survive heavy damage. Then we can test 109 G-2 vs LaGG-3. You take G-2 of course. If you will be smart you will gain the altitude advantage and finally maybe damage me after few minutes of combat but fighting on online war is not a duel game. In regular combat other planes would engage in to the fight and you couldnt finish your enemy. So your argument is invalid and just partial. I prepared a new planeset, this is a basic section. 109 G-2 & LaGG & La will be available with all modifications after collecting the points. Now the question is : if Kathon will prepare the point system for the next campaign.
=TrSh=AlexVVV Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) Take FW-190 and I`ll take LaGG-3 and lets make a simulation of combat, lets check which plane is worst. After 1 pass you will just run away with FW 190... 1 turn in FW -> stall In LaGG 3 you can make a defence, stall fight survive heavy damage. Then we can test 109 G-2 vs LaGG-3. You take G-2 of course. If you will be smart you will gain the altitude advantage and finally maybe damage me after few minutes of combat but fighting on online war is not a duel game. In regular combat other planes would engage in to the fight and you couldnt finish your enemy. So your argument is invalid and just partial. Let me FW-190 for the week on the server. You fly a week on the LaGG-3. Then compare the results. How do you that? ) Edited August 2, 2016 by AlexVVV
Blakhart Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 First of all you need to learn how to talk and discuss. You ignore my proposition, I ingore your person and requests. 2nd You want to compare results ???War is not about the stats of a single pilot and this is what you will create after a test-week so your argument is invalid as well. Good luck with creating false drama somewhere else.
=TrSh=AlexVVV Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) 3. Basic plane CANT be better than any other extra plane achieved by combat mission/ points system. In other way people will dont have motivation to risk and fly for the AK/GK. OK, I understand you. This logic is not for the blue team )) Edited August 2, 2016 by AlexVVV
Blakhart Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) No. [Edited] Edited August 3, 2016 by Bearcat
=TrSh=AlexVVV Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 No. [Edited] Hide your national complex please )
Kmet Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) Guys, just admit that you're blue as the pilots, you're done for the server itself, that would be comfortable to play ... It's not fair, do you think? Edited August 2, 2016 by Kmet 1
Blakhart Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 Guys, just admit that you're blue as the pilots, you're done for the server itself, that would be comfortable to play ... It's not fair, do you think? We flew for Red 1st campaign, now we fly blue. Next war we fly Red. We test both sides so your silly complains can be moved back to the pocket. I`m getting tired of frustrated people...
[TWB]Pand Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 We flew for Red 1st campaign, now we fly blue. Next war we fly Red. We test both sides so your silly complains can be moved back to the pocket. I`m getting tired of frustrated people... You can never satisfy everyone. Keep your head high--- you have created something special here, and look forward to seeing it evolve. :salute
Kmet Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 We flew for Red 1st campaign, now we fly blue. Next war we fly Red. We test both sides so your silly complains can be moved back to the pocket. I`m getting tired of frustrated people... you must immediately do everything honestly tired and do not have to ... it's all from evil ... and you and I know that at present , the moment of the starting set of aircraft of the parties , it is not fair !
Blakhart Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 Pand' timestamp='1470167856' post='374488'] You can never satisfy everyone. Keep your head high--- you have created something special here, and look forward to seeing it evolve. Thx Pand. you must immediately do everything honestly tired and do not have to ... it's all from evil ... and you and I know that at present , the moment of the starting set of aircraft of the parties , it is not fair !
F/JG300_Gruber Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) Maybe put the old 87 in default as well for the germans, I have the feeling that with this planeset, 90% of blue players will go for the G2 Plus the he111 is quite bad for taking out armored convoys. Edited August 2, 2016 by F/JG300_Gruber
Blakhart Posted August 2, 2016 Author Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) If Ju87 then ---> IL-2 and IL-2 is giving huge advance for the red side in low level combat and attacks. Stuka is just a flying target... Both of those planes will be available after collecting some points so the players will understand that they cant waste it on suicidal attacks on the airfield. Plz wait for the whole planeset. I will post it when Kathon confirms that point system is working. Edited August 2, 2016 by =LG=Blakhart
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