Bf-109 F4 or G2?

[Death1111]

In IL2 1946 my favourite aircraft was the Bf-109 G2 and from memory I think it performed better in most aspects to the F4 (though I could be wrong it has been a long time since I have played).

 

I am wondering historically which model was considered the superior aircraft of the two and whether this will be accurately represented in BOS?

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Depends on how you fly, do you like the pure BnZ, stalking your prey? or maybe you want to mix it up?

 

I like both depending on my mood, G2 for the pure, take your time and stalking, before the fast BnZ and away.

The F4 i like more if im going to be mixing it up, it can do very well at the BnZ but can also be used in the turn fighting dirty business down lower if you know what your doing.

 

Though im thinking after flying the Lagg with BOS's great FM, we are going to be learning to fly all the aircraft again for the first time.

 

I cant wait, not been this excited about flying in a long time.

[Finkeren]

Overall I don't expect the difference between the late F and the early G to be very significant, at least less so, than it was in the old IL2.

 

The main difference, as I see it, would be the canopy and the way the engine handles (broader prop blades and higher compression) it should give the G some power advantage, although we should be barred from using all of it (only allowed by summer 1943). The difference in wing loading shouldn't be that significant, and since the G-2 didn't have most of the drag-inducing additions, that cropped up through 1943, it should be somewhat faster at altitude.

[Panzerlang]

I hope they toughen up the planes. Having the wings come off in a bad landing is one thing but after seeing the LaGG's wings break just from being put up against a stationary car and gas applied makes me think the DM needs more work. Which I'm sure the devs already know, it's still an alpha and WIP of course.

 

But yeah, I'm itching to get my hands on the 109 too. The next few weeks are going to be pure jagdfliegerschule for me.

[DB605]

Basically G is bit more powerful, bit faster, better armored and have stronger structure but also heavier. So F should have upper hand on turn fights and G is better in BnZ but difference should not be very big afterall.

[Matt]

F-4 most likely.

 

IIRC, during the BoS, the DB 605 of the G-2 still had 1.3 ata boost limitation and the DB 601 of the F-4 was cleared for 1.42 ata. Eventually giving the F-4 a slightly higher performance than that of the G-2.

 

But please correct me if i'm wrong.

[Kurfurst]

F-4 most likely.

 

IIRC, during the BoS, the DB 605 of the G-2 still had 1.3 ata boost limitation and the DB 601 of the F-4 was cleared for 1.42 ata. Eventually giving the F-4 a slightly higher performance than that of the G-2.

 

But please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

What Matt said. Essentially the late 1942 F-4 was almost identical to the G-2 in equipment, guns, armor, weight and power. The Fs DB 601E was cleared for 1350 PS output in early 1942, the Gs DB 605A was however restricted 1310 PS for the time being.. at altitude the 605A was tad bit better, but thats it.

[JtD]

It should be noted that WEP was limited to 3 minutes. With the F, you won't be flying around at WEP all the time. Instead, both aircraft will by flown at their combat settings most of the time, which means around 1200hp for the DB601 in the F at altitudes up to 6km and around 1300hp for the DB605 in the G at altitudes up to 7km.

[Guest VDM]

The Fs DB 601E was cleared for 1350 PS output in early 1942,....

not early 1942, but late 1941(in November).

[JaMz]

Il Have both please

[Karost]

BF-109F4 turn better then BF-109G2

But  making hi-speed from  drive for B&Z I like BF-109G2

 

too bad in IL2 FB  was luck for hi-speed turn over 400 km/h.

when BF-109F4 lunch for test  alot of us will test about this.

[II./JG27_Rich]

I like the F4

[Jaws2002]

I'd take the 190 A3/4 over both any day.  Those two 109's, for the period, are too good at everything. I get bored in planes that have too many advantages really fast.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Jaws2002

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

Yeah the 190 A3 or 4 but if I can't have that, F4 please.

[Volkoff]

In IL2 1946 my favourite aircraft was the Bf-109 G2 and from memory I think it performed better in most aspects to the F4 (though I could be wrong it has been a long time since I have played).

 

I am wondering historically which model was considered the superior aircraft of the two and whether this will be accurately represented in BOS?

 

Even though I am on a VVS squad, I predict that I am going to love and admire both the F-4 and the G-2. When I have both rides in my stable and my VVS squad is not flying, I will definitely prefer lonewolfing with the G-2. The G-2 takes me back to my WW1 flight sim roots and my underlying approach to lone wolfing, which is asking myself, "What would Erich Hartmann do?" Then doing that thing. 

 

The G2 is just perfect for the lonewolf attack style, below:

 

http://vimeo.com/46989205

 

 

 

MJ

Edited November 23, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[ImPeRaToR]

I'd take the 190 A3/4 over both any day.  Those two 109's, for the period, are too good at everything. I get bored in planes that have too many advantages really fast.

The A-2 was almost on par with the F-4 already and we are getting a better version - I am pretty sure the A-3 in BOS will be superior to both in most aspects.

[SeaW0lf]

Wasn't the Gustav version heavier and more cumbersome than the Fs? It seems to me that the G was more a bomber interceptor than a dogfighter. But I am not sure.

[334th_L0C0]

Another factor that might determine which was the "Superior aircraft", depends on the aircraft it was up against aswell.

[Jaws2002]

Wasn't the Gustav version heavier and more cumbersome than the Fs? It seems to me that the G was more a bomber interceptor than a dogfighter. But I am not sure.

 

The G2 was every inch a fighter. Why would it be considered a bomber interceptor when the armament remained the same as in the F4? The G6 got more firepower because of the new realities.  

[LukeFF]

Wasn't the Gustav version heavier and more cumbersome than the Fs? It seems to me that the G was more a bomber interceptor than a dogfighter. But I am not sure.

 

That would be the G-6.

[SeaW0lf]

That would be the G-6.

 

Thanks, I had a series of books of all the main fighters of the war and it could have been useful now (pity that I gave them away years ago), because I googled it and there isn't much about the G series.

[Finkeren]

Well the G-Series were in fact concieved as high altitude bomber interceptors. The two major changes from the F-4 were both meant to enable the 109 to engage aircraft flying above 25,000 feet, since the Fw 190 was a complete dog at that altitude.

 

The high preasure DB 605 was meant to give a performance boost at altitude, and the redesigned canopy was to facilitate cabin preasurization.

 

In the end only relatively few numbers of the high-altitude preasurized fighters (G-1, G-3 and G-5) were built, and the preasurized versions were dropped after the G-5/G-6 version IIRC.

[FlatSpinMan]

Simple way to settle this issue definitively.

Which aircraft had the coolest paintschemes?

Now, this the Eastern Front Luftwaffe, so that's a pretty hard call.

[Kurfurst]

not early 1942, but late 1941(in November).

 

Definietely not IMO, unless the clearance occured in the last day of November 1941. See http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109F4_Datenblatts/109F4_dblatt_flown.html

 

"z.Zt.gesperrt"

 

"Augsburg, den 29.11.41"

[URUAker]

In IL2 1946 i always liked the F4 for cockpit visibility

[Matt]

The A-2 was almost on par with the F-4 already and we are getting a better version - I am pretty sure the A-3 in BOS will be superior to both in most aspects.

Except for climb, high altitude performance (of no real importance yet) and low speed handling (tightest turn circle etc.), it should be superior in everything. Even though i've read that the acceleration of the 190 was noticably worse than that of the 109, but i'm not sure if that was true with the D-2 engine.

 

I guess in the end, it will mostly come down to personal preference.

 

According to some Russian reports, they usually considered the 109 to be more dangerous, but i think the reason for that was mostly, that later on the 190 was mainly used in the Schlachtflieger role and those pilots did not excel at fighter vs fighter combat.

[JG1_Pragr]

Wasn't the Gustav version heavier and more cumbersome than the Fs? It seems to me that the G was more a bomber interceptor than a dogfighter. But I am not sure.

 

It's really interesting how often this is mentioned as a big problem. The weight increase between F-4 and G-2 was less than 150 kg. (F-4 take-off weight 2890 kg vs G-2's 3023 kg from russian test) and about 70 kg between G-2 and G-6. It could look as a big issue but compare it with e.g. Spitfire. The difference between Mk.V with Merlin 46 and Spitfire Mk.IX fitted with Merlin 66 was 450 kg. And Spitfire Mk.IX was still about 300 kg heavier than G-6. 

[ImPeRaToR]

Except for climb, high altitude performance (of no real importance yet) and low speed handling (tightest turn circle etc.), it should be superior in everything. Even though i've read that the acceleration of the 190 was noticably worse than that of the 109, but i'm not sure if that was true with the D-2 engine.

 

I guess in the end, it will mostly come down to personal preference.

 

According to some Russian reports, they usually considered the 109 to be more dangerous, but i think the reason for that was mostly, that later on the 190 was mainly used in the Schlachtflieger role and those pilots did not excel at fighter vs fighter combat.

Agreed

[AA_Engadin]

G-2, good turn fighter in Il-2 1946 but very soft punch, IMHO.

 

AA_Engadin

[dkoor]

BF-109F4 turn better then BF-109G2

But  making hi-speed from  drive for B&Z I like BF-109G2

 

too bad in IL2 FB  was luck for hi-speed turn over 400 km/h.

when BF-109F4 lunch for test  alot of us will test about this.

+1

 

109s in IL-2 felt very confident weapons of war to me at least.

People flying for blue side preferred mostly FW-190, smaller group flew 109s.

 

But yeah, BnZ on evading targets is extremely tough in 109 especially if they know how to fly.

With 109s after G2 even harder than that as those locked really stiff on elevator.

[Obi1Wingman]

Love to BnZ in the G2, a great plane for it, let's see which armament specs we get before I say that all the foes will be turned into Swiss cheese...