Moar Tanks?

[LeRocket]

Wow.. for a "hobby"-project, this is pretty sweet already.

 

Tanks need more positions modeled, namely the commander. It also would be nice to be able to "steer" the turret with my joystick. I have two monitors and when I use the mouse to swing the turret around, the cursor will inevitably end of on the secondary monitor and pushing LMB to fire will then "alt-TAB" me out of the game .. :D

 

Is there a way to map coax-MGs to a separate trigger?

 

I would definitely urge the devs to keep pursuing this "mod". With a bit more work, this could be turned into a nice tank-sim in its own right. Or, with some more work, into a virtual battlefield simulation.

there's a program called swapscreen which allows you to limit your cursor to one screen. it works pretty well.

[1Sascha]

there's a program called swapscreen which allows you to limit your cursor to one screen. it works pretty well.

Thanks Rocket... I'll give it a try.

[Y-29.Silky]

It takes a full year to get 6 planes out. I hope they don't waste their time on tanks.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I think they've made it clear on multiple occasions that the tanks take nothing away from the flight sim development.

[[CPT]milopugdog]

It takes a full year to get 6 planes out. I hope they don't waste their time on tanks.

[1Sascha]

 

 

LOL... yup.

 

One reason why I still play WW2 Online is the fact that it's the only game I know of where shooting down fighters and bombers or strafing/bombing stuff actually "mean" something and helps other players who are fighting for territory on the ground as infantry or tanks.

 

Expanding a flight-sim beyond the "shoot planes down for the sake of shooting planes down"-aspect can only be good for *any* game. Cooperation between ground and air can be so much fun and extremely rewarding and motivating.

 

Plus you gotta remember that  the reason why there were IL-2s or Bf 109s at Stalingrad wasn't so that the pilots could fight duels over the city. They were supporting the ground war. So widening the scope of a sim like BoS *should* be a valid goal to make the game more realistic.

 

And as basic as the tanking aspect currently is, it's already pretty impressive for a "spare-time"-project. It needs a few tweaks and added functionality (commander-view, better handling of weapons, better integration of tank-functions into the key-mapper) but - to me at least - this looks like a great starting point.

 

 

S.

Edited July 11, 2016 by 1Sascha

[GrendelsDad]

Independent track control so I can use 2 joysticks to drive.

[curiousGamblerr]

Independent track control so I can use 2 joysticks to drive.

You don't need any help getting around in that thing! 

 

Edit: Altho, it would be wicked cool to drive them using a split throttle...

Edited July 11, 2016 by 19.G//curiousGamblerr

[GrendelsDad]

Curious I have a video...That attack was intense!

[CUJO_1970]

Can Russian tanks be damaged with cannon fire or do they have a simplified damage model?

 

I attacked a T-34 online and several passes with 20mm in FW-190 didn't put a scratch on it. I watched the track and I got many hits on the side wheels and tracks as well as the back engine compartment. No damage though.

[1Sascha]

Can Russian tanks be damaged with cannon fire or do they have a simplified damage model?

 

I attacked a T-34 online and several passes with 20mm in FW-190 didn't put a scratch on it. I watched the track and I got many hits on the side wheels and tracks as well as the back engine compartment. No damage though.

 

The way it should be with 20mm. Well.. unless you get a lucky hit into a tread, I suppose, or if the tanker is stupid and has his diver-hatch open and you shoot into there.

 

My granddad fought in Stalingrad and told me stories of how they tried to stop T-34s with 20mm flak guns (out of desperation) and how that would achieve nothing. "Like shooting a 9mm into a slab of concrete" were his exact words.. :/

 

I just unlocked the 3.7cm gunpods for the Ju87 and did some quick missions in it vs armor. KV-1 is pretty much BK 3,7-proof from the angles I've tried. I tried dead 6 shots into the rear, sideshots into the rear upper and lower hull and rear/sideshots into the turret (all using AP-ammo of course, assuming blue = AP, red = HE?).

 

I found two different types of AP-ammo mentioned for the BK 3,7:

 

1. A hard-core shell, weighing 230 g, reaching 865 m/s muzzle velocity that would penetrate up to 58mm of steel at 60° and 100m.

2. An improved version of this shell, weighing 240g, reaching 1.140 m/s and penetrating up to 120mm @60°.

 

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone37cm/bordkanone37.html#Technische%20Daten

 

So if we assume that the game models the earlier ammo (which would make sense), this result against the KV-1 seems accurate, since it should have around 70mm of armor on the parts I shot. Didn't realize how well the KV-1 was armored, all around... :D

 

T-34s OTOH go down pretty easily when you shoot them in rear/upper rear or rear sides near the wheels and T-70s are Stuka-fodder.. :D

 

 

I also noticed that one of my T-34 kills was a "delayed" one: I shot the tank into the side rear and it didn't blow up or show any signs of damage. However: Two strafing runs later I noticed that this tank had fallen behind the other two and was emitting a bit of smoke from the engine. And I hadn't put any further shots into him after my first hit. On the next run it had stopped altogether and shortly after it had started to burn and was abandoned.

 

Not sure what the mechanics working in the background are like here, but the results I observed seem too "complex" for it to be a simple "hit points"-system.

 

S.

Edited July 11, 2016 by 1Sascha

[BlitzPig_EL]

I've had the same delayed destruction of tanks before as well.

 

Shot up a PzKw III with the 23mm VyA gun on an IL2, and several minutes later got a kill notification.  I flew back over it and saw it was indeed burning.

 

Pretty cool that this is modeled.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Mechanical failure is modeled for all planes and vehicles. You can ruin a truck engine and get the kill several minutes later when it grinds to a halt. Try hitting a truck with MG's only to see it.

 

Same with a wing spar in a plane. Watching that fold up while your enemy tries to evade is surprising to everyone when it happens long after the cannon round does it's damage. Lot's of complaining by the victim if he hasn't experienced it before.

 

One of the cooler features is getting credit oil tanks on a train as the fire spreads from one car to the next on a bombing run. I've gotten points several minutes later from that. It makes sense you can do it to a tank as well.

Edited July 11, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[Monostripezebra]

I´m still saying we need a drivable T-70 and maybe a Marder to make the player controled tanks work even better.. I love that they´re in the game after initially beeing sceptical.

[1Sascha]

 

At least one delayed tank-kill here.

 

The last guy *I think* took damage when I first shot him ... there seems to be more than just "road-dust" coming off of him after the first hit - but I could be wrong.

 

Oh, I just realized I shot this video using a historical skin on my Stuka ... so please don't watch if you're offended by hooked crosses .. :/

 

 

S.

Edited July 11, 2016 by 1Sascha

[mAIOR]

I´m still saying we need a drivable T-70 and maybe a Marder to make the player controled tanks work even better.. I love that they´re in the game after initially beeing sceptical.

And KV-1s and PzIV F2s... And the Pzkw 38(t) while we're at it ^^ I want all :D

For the Moscow camapaign, snubbed nose PzIV and Stugs too.

 

Oh dear, I am asking too much again am I not?

 

But I would love for this game to go there so that we have proper combined arms in a proper simulator.

Edited July 12, 2016 by mAIOR

[1Sascha]

And KV-1s and PzIV F2s... And the Pzkw 38(t) while we're at it ^^ I want all :D

For the Moscow camapaign, snubbed nose PzIV and Stugs too.

 

Oh dear, I am asking too much again am I not?

 

But I would love for this game to go there so that we have proper combined arms in a proper simulator.

 

The basic ingredients seem to be there. One problem I see is that the map seems to be built around airplanes, not ground units. Driving in a tank through that ludicrously tall grass, looking ahead to find a "grass-less spot" only to find out that there's still grass there - you just couldn't see it because you were out of render distance.. :D

 

 

Like I said up above: The tanks need a bit more loving, like being able to fire the main gun and coax MG simultaneously or having commanders modeled. The StuG in particular would be horrible without a commander, since the gun has such limited traverse and your SA would be very poor without the ability to unbutton your commander and do a complete scan of your surroundings. Plus commanders usually had better optics than the gunner, so detecting targets at long range would be easier with a correctly modeled commander position. And some tanks had range-finders for their commanders too, making first-shot-hits much more probable. 

 

Plus a viable ground-element would of course need infantry - can't have a realistic ground war without infantry. Either in the form of an FPS-ish module (players running around as infantrymen) or as server/AI-controlled groups of infantry.

 

S.

[Dakpilot]

There are some threads on using the range finding 'capabilities' of the gunsights

 

although not the same as a dedicated 'Commander' crew position you are able to "open the hatch" and use this view, and with some changes of keybindings look around independently

 

(or is that only with trackIR, I cant remember)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[1Sascha]

There are some threads on using the range finding 'capabilities' of the gunsights

 

although not the same as a dedicated 'Commander' crew position you are able to "open the hatch" and use this view, and with some changes of keybindings look around independently

 

(or is that only with trackIR, I cant remember)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

Yeah, the Tigerfibel pretty much explains how to range tanks and vehicles using the Zeiss optics. I've been meaning to learn that stuff (for a different game) for years, but I just can't be bothered to do the math while in combat.. :D

 

Hmm.. I know you can open the driver's hatch (at least on the T-34), but since there isn't even a commander-position modeled (I couldn't find him :D), how do you even open his hatch/the cupola?

 

Basically, the turret would need the same level of detail that the driver's position already has: Default view for the gunner should be the interior of the turret, staring at the breech. Key-press should bring up the gunsight. A different keypress might bring up the gunner's observation ports (if he had any on the vehicle in question). Commander should have vision slits or a periscope to look around while buttoned-up (again: depending on what was there in the RL-vehicle). When he opens up, he should have "normal view" plus "binocular view".

[Yogiflight]

Hi Sascha, to go to the commanders position, you have to go to the gunners position and then open the hatch. When you then, looking over your turret, give up control of the weapon, I think "T" is the default key, you can look around with your headtracking system, or if you don`t use one, it should also work with the mouse, but I am not quite sure with the last . You can also see the opened hatch below.

You are right, that tanks could need some more stuff, but as developers stated some time ago, this might come, when tanks are a success.

[1Sascha]

Hi Sascha, to go to the commanders position, you have to go to the gunners position and then open the hatch. When you then, looking over your turret, give up control of the weapon, I think "T" is the default key, you can look around with your headtracking system, or if you don`t use one, it should also work with the mouse, but I am not quite sure with the last . You can also see the opened hatch below.

You are right, that tanks could need some more stuff, but as developers stated some time ago, this might come, when tanks are a success.

Thanks for that! Damn... how did I miss that one?

[mAIOR]

Yeah, the Tigerfibel pretty much explains how to range tanks and vehicles using the Zeiss optics. I've been meaning to learn that stuff (for a different game) for years, but I just can't be bothered to do the math while in combat.. :D

 

Hmm.. I know you can open the driver's hatch (at least on the T-34), but since there isn't even a commander-position modeled (I couldn't find him :D), how do you even open his hatch/the cupola?

 

Basically, the turret would need the same level of detail that the driver's position already has: Default view for the gunner should be the interior of the turret, staring at the breech. Key-press should bring up the gunsight. A different keypress might bring up the gunner's observation ports (if he had any on the vehicle in question). Commander should have vision slits or a periscope to look around while buttoned-up (again: depending on what was there in the RL-vehicle). When he opens up, he should have "normal view" plus "binocular view".

It is not that hard. Once you get used to it, your guesstimates will become rather good. If you are in doubt, you can use the coax mg to measure the distance to target.

 

What you are mentioning regarding the commander's view was the main advantage that German tanks had over the Soviet ones. The commander's cuppola basically meant that you had much better SA than the Soviets which had one periscope for the commander/gunner outside of the gunsight.

 

The basics for the tanks are there. They just need polish and to be implemented im PWCG :D

 

Regarding the maps, yeah, renders need to be different for tanks and aircraft. Different LODs. Actually, planes could use with a different LOD while at ground level. Not sure how hard it would be to implement but it would be cool (have like a 15 meter high LOD or something).

[mAIOR]

https://youtu.be/5nTS6A3B9dk

Interesting video. Music was a bit ott for me and you should learn to use the sights properly. Much better, trust me

[wtornado]

https://youtu.be/5nTS6A3B9dk

Video looked War thunderish.

 

I play War Thunder Tanks (realistic battles) settings and when the planes come it looks very similar.

[GrendelsDad]

not sure if anyone else has done this...but if you play with top open on tank, your gunner/commander can be killed.  Playing from inside view is nothing like WT.

Edited July 14, 2016 by 6./ZG1_GrendelsDad