AMD vs. Nvidia - Which is better in IL2 - Battle of Stalingrad?

[Shatter12]

This is as simple as the title says, which would be better for IL2 BoS? This is not taking into consideration the 1070s and 1080s as AMD have not released anything comparable to them yet, like the 490 and 490X. This is also taking into consideration the same specifications for each computer, so it would be a fair test as to see which would be better.

Thanks!

[Dakpilot]

While many people have got good results from AMD I would say that the general consensus is that in DX9 games (BoS) Nvidia is far ahead in driver support and probably a bit in performance as well

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[GrendelsDad]

I ran 2x6970s and I do not recall having any major issues. Getting crossfire to run was a small task. I was running 5670x1080 nicely. I think the key with AMD for me was to stick with stable driver until I had a reason to upgrade. (ie a new game) Also I always run high resolutions AMD always seems a step ahead in this area. Just see the mixed resolutions for triple screens they added last year. All that said I run a 980ti right now, and really like this card too. I would be curious to see how an AMD with 8 gigs of memory would fare on the high resolutions. I would think at 1080 resolution both cards would perform well in most new games.

[Shatter12]

I ran 2x6970s and I do not recall having any major issues. Getting crossfire to run was a small task. I was running 5670x1080 nicely. I think the key with AMD for me was to stick with stable driver until I had a reason to upgrade. (ie a new game) Also I always run high resolutions AMD always seems a step ahead in this area. Just see the mixed resolutions for triple screens they added last year. All that said I run a 980ti right now, and really like this card too. I would be curious to see how an AMD with 8 gigs of memory would fare on the high resolutions. I would think at 1080 resolution both cards would perform well in most new games.

AMD 390 and GTX 970 perform roughly the same with there being no real difference until you get to the higher resolutions, where you may as well buy a Fury/Titan/1070/1080 as the 390 might perform better then the 970 at higher resolutions, it'd probably only play the game in between 20-40 FPS depending on the game, setting and resolution.

While many people have got good results from AMD I would say that the general consensus is that in DX9 games (BoS) Nvidia is far ahead in driver support and probably a bit in performance as well

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Although how long BoS will stay in Dx9 is anyone's guess.

[Dakpilot]

My GTX970 is sill giving (comparatively) stellar performance at 4K Res max settings, stutter free. Min 33 on ground to 70+ flying

 

Any slowdowns are because of large AI formations or huge AI ground force battles/units in such missions, this a CPU limitation not GPU, but these are very rare

 

If possible I would recommend a higher card for 4K  though, A change from DX9 will affect all this, but as said it may be a bit of a wiat

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Shatter12]

My GTX970 is sill giving (comparatively) stellar performance at 4K Res max settings, stutter free. Min 33 on ground to 70+ flying

 

Any slowdowns are because of large AI formations or huge AI ground force battles/units in such missions, this a CPU limitation not GPU, but these are very rare

 

If possible I would recommend a higher card for 4K  though, A change from DX9 will affect all this, but as said it may be a bit of a wiat

 

Cheers Dakpilot

I'm guessing your GTX 970 is OC'ed a bit? At 4K there's no point using an AMD R9 390/X, or a GTX 970/980. You'd want to use an enthusiast card for good performance at 4K, and/or crossfired/SLI'd. Although I'm guessing your i5 3570k is albeit for gaming, and is overclocked? I'm guessing over 3 GHZ is recommended, if not needed for this game for decent performance at anything above Low.

[Dakpilot]

See my sig

 

It is a 'factory' (Galax) overclock at stock (out of the box) clocks GTX970,  and I run 3570 at 4,46 Ghz auto overclocked by MB software 24/7 for several years no issues

 

I notice my sig is out of date! thanks for making me notice!, when I upgraded it was to a Galax GTX970 EXOC not MSI (previous GTX770) very happy with Galax and would buy again, MSI was fine also, but Galax had significant price saving 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited June 28, 2016 by Dakpilot

[SYN_Vorlander]

Nvidia

[Shatter12]

See my sig

 

It is a 'factory' (Galax) overclock at stock (out of the box) clocks GTX970,  and I run 3570 at 4,46 Ghz auto overclocked by MB software 24/7 for several years no issues

 

I notice my sig is out of date! thanks for making me notice!, when I upgraded it was to a Galax GTX970 EXOC not MSI (previous GTX770) very happy with Galax and would buy again, MSI was fine also, but Galax had significant price saving 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Your welcome :)s. I'm guessing you have no issues with IL2 BoS besides your CPU bottlenecking the FPS/Settings because of how DirectX 9 is still used in this game instead of DirectX 10, 11 or 12 which moves usage from the CPU to the GPU.

Nvidia

I'm guessing this is because of how DirectX 9 is still semi supported for modern Nvidia GPUs. Remember, this isn't taking into account the 1070s and 1080s as AMD doesn't even have anything remotely competitive to them for the moment (there's the 480 that's coming out on the 29th of June, but that's more or less a 390X that's much cheaper and running 14nm technology, making it more energy and heat efficient from what I've read, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though).

[mAIOR]

Your welcome :)s. I'm guessing you have no issues with IL2 BoS besides your CPU bottlenecking the FPS/Settings because of how DirectX 9 is still used in this game instead of DirectX 10, 11 or 12 which moves usage from the CPU to the GPU.

I'm guessing this is because of how DirectX 9 is still semi supported for modern Nvidia GPUs. Remember, this isn't taking into account the 1070s and 1080s as AMD doesn't even have anything remotely competitive to them for the moment (there's the 480 that's coming out on the 29th of June, but that's more or less a 390X that's much cheaper and running 14nm technology, making it more energy and heat efficient from what I've read, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though).

You are not wrong. As an nVidia user (980ti) I am dismayed by the price hyke nVidia pulled (by overpricing their reference cards). So, if AMD higher range offers the same benefits as the 480 for similar costs, I am changing teams. The only reason I really want to upgrade is VR since this new generarion has a lot of fancy tricks to reduce the cost of VR in terms of performance. BTW, NDA for the 480 is lifted today.

[Shatter12]

You are not wrong. As an nVidia user (980ti) I am dismayed by the price hyke nVidia pulled (by overpricing their reference cards). So, if AMD higher range offers the same benefits as the 480 for similar costs, I am changing teams. The only reason I really want to upgrade is VR since this new generarion has a lot of fancy tricks to reduce the cost of VR in terms of performance. BTW, NDA for the 480 is lifted today.

Your 980 Ti would probably be fine for a little while long. If you only play BoS, or anything similar to BoS (I.e. DirectX 9) then you would be more inclined to get a better CPU then GPU for the next couple of years at least. The 1070s and 1080s are very overpriced, I know that their the top of the range, but there probably not worth $550 USD. More like $450-500 USD, but who am I to talk about Nvidia's pricing.

[mAIOR]

Your 980 Ti would probably be fine for a little while long. If you only play BoS, or anything similar to BoS (I.e. DirectX 9) then you would be more inclined to get a better CPU then GPU for the next couple of years at least. The 1070s and 1080s are very overpriced, I know that their the top of the range, but there probably not worth $550 USD. More like $450-500 USD, but who am I to talk about Nvidia's pricing.

Yes I am fine with it. Again, the only thing that pulls me towards new gen stuff is vr support. I also play other sims and some titles I like such as the Witcher 3. I play in a 1440p screen atm.

 

Here in the European side of things, it is cheaper to get a 980 ti than a 1080 and a 1070 costs almoat 500€. No one is selling by the msrp. Why should they? Nvidia charges a premium for a reference design that is actually worse than the aftermarket cards. If their product is better, why sell for less? Even cards with stock pcb but custom cooler are something like 50€ more expensive that the reference design. And it is just because they can. I will hold on my 980 ti for a while more. At least until prices normalize.

[Shatter12]

Yes I am fine with it. Again, the only thing that pulls me towards new gen stuff is vr support. I also play other sims and some titles I like such as the Witcher 3. I play in a 1440p screen atm.

 

Here in the European side of things, it is cheaper to get a 980 ti than a 1080 and a 1070 costs almoat 500€. No one is selling by the msrp. Why should they? Nvidia charges a premium for a reference design that is actually worse than the aftermarket cards. If their product is better, why sell for less? Even cards with stock pcb but custom cooler are something like 50€ more expensive that the reference design. And it is just because they can. I will hold on my 980 ti for a while more. At least until prices normalize.

And if you need to, you can SLI and get another 980 Ti. We (Australians) have to pay 16 more euros for a 1070, but that's the very, very cheapest it is. 1070s break $800 AUD. 1080s over $1000 AUD. 

And to be honest, GTX 1080s aren't really needed unless you plan on playing e,g. Witcher 3 at max settings on a few screens.

[mAIOR]

And if you need to, you can SLI and get another 980 Ti. We (Australians) have to pay 16 more euros for a 1070, but that's the very, very cheapest it is. 1070s break $800 AUD. 1080s over $1000 AUD.

And to be honest, GTX 1080s aren't really needed unless you plan on playing e,g. Witcher 3 at max settings on a few screens.

Yeah. As I said, the only think worth it for me is the fact that you can get much better performance out of VR due to some nifty tricks. Question is, how many of those tricks could be backwards compatible.

Like the fact that the GPU only needs to render one image instead of two and prewarps it. It is a huge saving in resources and I can't think of a reason that it should be hardware locked...

[Shatter12]

Yeah. As I said, the only think worth it for me is the fact that you can get much better performance out of VR due to some nifty tricks. Question is, how many of those tricks could be backwards compatible.

Like the fact that the GPU only needs to render one image instead of two and prewarps it. It is a huge saving in resources and I can't think of a reason that it should be hardware locked...

You can just use TrackIR, whilst not exactly like a VR, but it is significantly cheaper and seems good enough. And the best thing is is that TrackIR doesn't take as much load as the VRs, which is good for games such as IL2 BoS, WT, Witcher 3, etc. that take a load on the system in terms of performance.

To be honest, is VR all it is cracked up to be? I'd much prefer TrackIR as it doesn't lock you out of your world, just tracks your head, is significantly cheaper and is less "clunky". And if you want pristine colours/picture, just buy a 1080p, 1440p, 2k or 4K screen, at a big resolution.

[GrendelsDad]

I have just added another 980ti to my PC and I can say that I now run at 6216x2160(Ultra HDR/on SSAO/off) resolution and it is amazing!  Have not checked with a utility yet but I am at/near 60fps on the ground!  Was unsure if I should sell my current 980ti and get the 1080gtx but in the end I am happy I chose to go SLI.  Not a double frame rate increase but makes this sim run great!  Also for comparison I was bench-marking 35fps in Assetto Corsa and now I am getting 55-60 solid.  Just fyi... In IL2 BOS I can run SLI in AFR2 mode, but there is a lot of flickering with ground textures.  AFR2 plays the game even better with this mode which speaks well if they decide to upgrade to DX11 or something in the near future.

[Shatter12]

I have just added another 980ti to my PC and I can say that I now run at 6216x2160(Ultra HDR/on SSAO/off) resolution and it is amazing! Have not checked with a utility yet but I am at/near 60fps on the ground! Was unsure if I should sell my current 980ti and get the 1080gtx but in the end I am happy I chose to go SLI. Not a double frame rate increase but makes this sim run great! Also for comparison I was bench-marking 35fps in Assetto Corsa and now I am getting 55-60 solid. Just fyi... In IL2 BOS I can run SLI in AFR2 mode, but there is a lot of flickering with ground textures. AFR2 plays the game even better with this mode which speaks well if they decide to upgrade to DX11 or something in the near future.

You're running 6K? Wow. That's quite rare! If I may ask, what is your CPU and RAM (if it's in your rig, I can't see it as I'm in mobile right now ). An SSD might also give you more FPS as it is faster then a HDD for a higher cost, but it's better in every way vs. A HDD.

[GrendelsDad]

I have a 6700k and corsair 3000ddr4 and Shatter that is my final upgrade with SSD.  Just not looking forward to OS reinstall but I needs it anyway.  And of course recovery from the stall my wallet is in right now!

Also I think many people would be amazed at how well this game scales.  I was running 5760x2160 with a pair of AMD 6950hds(flashed to 6970s).  It was nice.  Worth an ebay trip if you are interested.

Edited June 30, 2016 by 6./ZG1_GrendelsDad

[CisTer-dB-]

I really don't understand how some can have that performance. Even with my settings low I can't get that on ground, let alone shutters free   

Edited June 30, 2016 by ATAG_dB

[mAIOR]

You can just use TrackIR, whilst not exactly like a VR, but it is significantly cheaper and seems good enough. And the best thing is is that TrackIR doesn't take as much load as the VRs, which is good for games such as IL2 BoS, WT, Witcher 3, etc. that take a load on the system in terms of performance.

To be honest, is VR all it is cracked up to be? I'd much prefer TrackIR as it doesn't lock you out of your world, just tracks your head, is significantly cheaper and is less "clunky". And if you want pristine colours/picture, just buy a 1080p, 1440p, 2k or 4K screen, at a big resolution.

I have a 1440p screen. VR is more about the immersion. From what I read, it is leaps and bounds ahead of trackIR (I have track hat btw). You are literaly in the cockpit with everything scaled to perfection around you.

[GrendelsDad]

After a rough fraps test...I am getting 45-50 on the ground...60 all day in the air. I am also not using any AA that saves me 10-20 fps. But at that resolution I don't need it. With 8 HE111s still getting 50+FPS

 

To be fair I seem to generally be more tolerant of fps in the 30-40s from what I see online from others. My ATI was 35-45fps at best...for me it was worth it.

[CisTer-dB-]

Your welcome :)s. I'm guessing you have no issues with IL2 BoS besides your CPU bottlenecking the FPS/Settings because of how DirectX 9 is still used in this game instead of DirectX 10, 11 or 12 which moves usage from the CPU to the GPU.

I'm guessing this is because of how DirectX 9 is still semi supported for modern Nvidia GPUs. Remember, this isn't taking into account the 1070s and 1080s as AMD doesn't even have anything remotely competitive to them for the moment (there's the 480 that's coming out on the 29th of June, but that's more or less a 390X that's much cheaper and running 14nm technology, making it more energy and heat efficient from what I've read, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though).

I disagree with on on that Shatter. I replace my R9 295x2 with a GTX1080 on that same assumption that DR9 and AMD didn't work well together. My GTX 1080 have improve my frame rate in the range of 10 to 15 % in BoS that's all. After some updates I sometime had issue related to multi GPU'sm (Xfire). Around 20%+ for my other sim. The point is after reading again and again I moved from red to green and the truth is they both the same, you may be able to fine tune your setting a little better on Nvidia.     

Edited July 1, 2016 by ATAG_dB

[Dakpilot]

With GTX1080 you are more likely running into CPU bottleneck at 3.4 Ghz and probably were with R295 x 2

 

There are many games which prefer AMD to Nvidia and vice versa, BoS prefers Nvidia, not to say it is pointless with AMD

 

balance of system is important, in many cases a good cooler and overclock is much cheaper than GRX card upgrade for similar and sometimes better performance and more practical result (I.E. small increase of minimum FPS is more usefull than big increase of max FPS)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[CisTer-dB-]

I am seriously looking it to it Dakpilot, I just don't have the know how yet. I do have a water-cooled CPU on my system, It should be a problem to OC it to 4.5 aparently

 

   

[Shatter12]

I disagree with on on that Shatter. I replace my R9 295x2 with a GTX1080 on that same assumption that DR9 and AMD didn't work well together. My GTX 1080 have improve my frame rate in the range of 10 to 15 % in BoS that's all. After some updates I sometime had issue related to multi GPU'sm (Xfire). Around 20%+ for my other sim. The point is after reading again and again I moved from red to green and the truth is they both the same, you may be able to fine tune your setting a little better on Nvidia.

 

I'd say it was because you bottle necked the GPU with DirectX 9 and all, but considering you got the same increase (%) in FPS in other flight sims as well leads me to believe that the 295x2 isn't to far behind the 1080. And since your CPU is actually quite good, then it's not a CPU/GPU thing. Could it be a PSU/RAM/SSD issue?

Out of curiosity, did you get any other changes to the system as well? PSU, CPU, RAM, etc.? Or is that the only change you did?

 

Also, on a kind of related topic, in Australia we have to pay a minimum of another $100 USD for the RX 480 ($336 USD over the $229 USD for the 8GB VRAM variant)! This is disappointing.

https://www.mwave.com.au/product/gigabyte-amd-radeon-rx-480-8gb-video-card-ab83755

I've looked at similar links, and from what I can find, it's never below $420 AUD.

[Dakpilot]

I am seriously looking it to it Dakpilot, I just don't have the know how yet. I do have a water-cooled CPU on my system, It should be a problem to OC it to 4.5 aparently

 

   

 

Am fairly sure that your motherboard is a more modern one than mine, -- I did a manual O/C on my previous i7 socket 1366 with good results, (I am no computer expert, google is your friend) --

 

However on my 3570K software was available (MB disc or download) to do automatic one mouse click/buttonpress overclock, I chose this option, and got stable 4.46 Ghz O/C which has run 24/7 stable for years now...cannot get simpler than that, and I found no reason to go more in depth with any other settings

 

After all O/C is the ONLY reason to buy the more expensive K model CPU's.

 

 

Also, on a kind of related topic, in Australia we have to pay a minimum of another $100 USD for the RX 480 

 

 

As regards AMD latest RX480 am very disappointed, in AMD centric games there is little dramatic change from an  R290, true it uses less power than 290/etc. but  the same as a GTX1080!..several tiers above, In Nvidia centric games it gets beaten by old generation GTX970 which can now be had for similar price

 

No where does it really perform beyond its price point, perhaps it will with VR but this will be sub par experience for someone who spends $800-$600 on VR device with better options available, so I don't see that as much of a selling point, when GTX1060 is released I can see problems for R480

 

I am sure it is a fine card, but as the new "bargain performance'' card it seems only that in hype and advertising, to be fair I was also very disappointed with "actual real world" pricing of Nvidia GTX1070/80 but at least there seems to be a tangible performance increase, even at extreme cost in most markets

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Shatter12]

As regards AMD latest RX480 am very disappointed, in AMD centric games there is little dramatic change from an R290, true it uses less power than 290/etc. but the same as a GTX1080!..several tiers above, In Nvidia centric games it gets beaten by old generation GTX970 which can now be had for similar price

 

No where does it really perform beyond its price point, perhaps it will with VR but this will be sub par experience for someone who spends $800-$600 on VR device with better options available, so I don't see that as much of a selling point, when GTX1060 is released I can see problems for R480

 

I am sure it is a fine card, but as the new "bargain performance'' card it seems only that in hype and advertising, to be fair I was also very disappointed with "actual real world" pricing of Nvidia GTX1070/80 but at least there seems to be a tangible performance increase, even at extreme cost in most markets

 

Cheers Dakpilot

I honestly don't see the reasoning for getting the 489 now. It was supposed to be a cheap, very good gaming card. Now all it is is a 390 with 14nm architecture =/.

I think performance is between 390-390X, however I am currently not sure od it's performance.

I wonder what the 1060 will perform like. My guess is somewhere between $350-500 AUD (if the 1070 vs. 1080 is anything to go by), and probably comparable to the 980/980 Ti.

All guesses/estimations of course concerning the 1060, we'll have to wait until they release the 1060 for public/private (individual) testing, but that's what I'm guessing on it.

[Sokol1]

In local market, where GTX1070 cost ~770$    RX480 was announced for ~440$, so a welcome novelty, no need be the "king of the hill". 

[Shatter12]

In local market, where GTX1070 cost ~770$ RX480 was announced for ~440$, so a welcome novelty, no need be the "king of the hill".

I know, but the 480 costs as much as the 390/390X in some cases in Australia. I would've liked it below $400 AUD, but oh well. I guess I probably will buy I and overclock it as it runs before colder and uses less energy then the 28nm architecture before it.

Although it is suffering a bug with software, apparently using ~130 watts and 80% of it is through the PCI-E! It's more of a software bug then a hardware bug, so hopefully they fix the RX 480 with a new driver update ASAP

S!

[Dakpilot]

In a lot of cases the R9 390X and R9 390 outperforms the RX480 in many situations there is minimal difference from R9 290

 

the benchmarks are easy to find, does not seem to have much overclock capability either..  IF it had been significantly cheaper it would have had more of a point

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Shatter12]

In a lot of cases the R9 390X and R9 390 outperforms the RX480 in many situations there is minimal difference from R9 290

 

the benchmarks are easy to find, does not seem to have much overclock capability either.. IF it had been significantly cheaper it would have had more of a point

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Huh? I thought the 480 > 390 and below, and is ever so slightly below the 390X. And since it runs cooler and uses energy more effectively, I would've sworn it would have excellent overclocking potential. If it cost below $400 AUD, I almost definitely would've picked it up. Now,it costs as much as a 390 (and even some cases more!), which I'm not sure it even out performs.

Oh, and I found a 380X for ~$270.

Just... =/. It's supposed to be better then the 480.

For almost half the price! Perhaps I should crossfire 2x 380Xs if I do indeed get a new rig.

[Dakpilot]

Quite simply for Bos and most sims you would be better off finding a discounted/secondhand GTX970 even new it probably had the best performance/price ratio

 

extremely low heat/noise/power and is modern enough to be 'future proof for a bit yet, it's only drawback being its comparative lack of Vram compared to newer models, but this could only be an issue very  at high res where a more powerful; card is more suitable anyway

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Shatter12]

Quite simply for Bos and most sims you would be better off finding a discounted/secondhand GTX970 even new it probably had the best performance/price ratio

 

extremely low heat/noise/power and is modern enough to be 'future proof for a bit yet, it's only drawback being its comparative lack of Vram compared to newer models, but this could only be an issue very at high res where a more powerful; card is more suitable anyway

 

Cheers Dakpilot

I'll probably try and find cheap 390s, 380Xs or 970s to run in SLI and/or Crossfire. That should give it the performance that BoS kind of needs, and probably will need once they convert to DirectX 11 soon (Hans said it about a fortnight ago).