How about an iMac?

[Sternjaeger]

right fellas, it's time to update my rig, I do working and gaming on one machine, and because of technical reasons I have to stick to Apple. 

 

I've been looking at a new iMac, and this is the rig I was considering:

 

3.4GHz Quad-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz

8GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2X4GB (the RAM can be updated on a second stage)

1TB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm

 

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4GB GDDR5

 

Needless to say I would use a Windows partition for it, but do you reckon it's a rig that would be good enough? 

 

iMacs use mobile graphic cards, but I've read a lot of positive reviews on the GTX 780M, what do you think?

[SeaW0lf]

According to this (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-780M.88993.0.html), the GTX 780M is right behind the R9 270X, which in its turn is behind the GTX 660 Ti. So I think you could get close to maxing the game out, perhaps with some compromises.

[FlatSpinMan]

I have a mid2011 iMac (alas) and can run the game. I really do want more RAM and a better card as I think I'll have probs when the shooting starts, but as it is, the game looks great and runs smoothly enough. I had to lower the resolution but many other settings are above minimum.

 

Get a decent keyboard - the iMac one looks cool but is flimsy, has no numpad, and the Function keys are a bit different.

 

I thought I was pretty much done with simming so didn't mind when my wife suggested buying one.

Neither of us particularly like it, though it is better now that I've installed Windows 7.

[FlatSpinMan]

I know! That bugs me too, so I took great pleasure in telling them so.

It's just what you're used to, but I found switching to OSX just debilitating - basic editing of a photo took me over an hour, I couldn't find where anything was, all the functions have names like Launchpad and Mussuon Control etc that mean nothing to me in a PC context. Then the stupid delete-without-deleting function- aaaaarghh!

That said, some people swear by it and I'm sure it would have got much easier had I persevered, but I just don't see the point.

 

It looks nice though, has a very small footprint, and the screen clarity is exceptional.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

I switched back to pc:s from iMac about 2 years ago. Performance/price-ratio is just not worth it and even if you are willing to pay, you still don't get the best possible performance.

But if other reasons compel you to get one, I think you will be ok with that set up.

[Sim]

That GTX 780M will be a problem

 

p.s. I am on Macbook Air right now using Windows 8.1. While Mac OS X is a fun operating system - can't really get around to using the thing for work.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Sim

[Sternjaeger]

hehehehe I know what you mean chaps, I have to work with both (I actually run OSX AND Win 7 on two screens from the same machine at work), and some people are quite snobs indeed, and love to show they have a Mac more because it's a status thing (where I work only managers over a certain rank can have Apple stuff, and people still measure their importance with these stupid benchmarks). Having said that, Macs objectively perform much better, even Windows runs better on them, and the support you get is quite amazing (we have extended 3 years warranties at work). 

 

Again, I don't have a choice really, and my concern was whether this graphic card is the bees' knees as they say or not..

That GTX 780M will be a problem

 

ugh! Why?! 

[Sim]

ugh! Why?! 

 

Well, the iMac will cost a fortune. And all you will get is a GPU on par with desktop GTX 660 or so. It's still a mobile card.. You will be able to run BoS of course, but don't expect 60 fps on max settings on a 1080p screen By the way, what screen (resolution) are you going to use? If it's that Apple Cinema Display - it's a 1440p display, meaning that 780M will have even harder time..

[Georgio]

I have a 27" i7 iMac from May this year with the 2GB 680M card and it runs everything I've tried with no problems at all, so the 780M will be even better.

In say Planetside 2 I'm running 1440p on medium/high settings, getting 60-70fps and it looks incredible.

This is running Bootcamp 5.0 with Win7...

 

Quote:

Performance
In our gaming tests the GeForce GTX 780M was able to gain a 30 percent lead to the older Nvidia Geforce GTX 680M thanks to the additional shader cores and higher clock rates. That makes the GTX 780M the fastest single mobile graphics card in summer 2013 and 10 - 15 percent faster than the AMD Radeon HD 8970M. The GPU has enough power to run demanding games of 2012 fluently with Full HD resolution and maxed out graphical settings. Battlefield 3, Skyrim, and Crysis 2, for example, are playable at the highest detail settings

 

 

right fellas, it's time to update my rig, I do working and gaming on one machine, and because of technical reasons I have to stick to Apple. 

 

I've been looking at a new iMac, and this is the rig I was considering:

 

3.4GHz Quad-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz

8GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2X4GB (the RAM can be updated on a second stage)

1TB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm

 

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4GB GDDR5

 

Needless to say I would use a Windows partition for it, but do you reckon it's a rig that would be good enough? 

 

iMacs use mobile graphic cards, but I've read a lot of positive reviews on the GTX 780M, what do you think?

 

Edited November 22, 2013 by Georgio

[Sternjaeger]

Well, the iMac will cost a fortune. And all you will get is a GPU on par with desktop GTX 660 or so. It's still a mobile card.. You will be able to run BoS of course, but don't expect 60 fps on max settings on a 1080p screen By the way, what screen (resolution) are you going to use? If it's that Apple Cinema Display - it's a 1440p display, meaning that 780M will have even harder time..

 

Money is not the issue, what I need is a platform that will run both, and I can't wait for the new Mac Pro (unfortunately). It'd be interesting to see some benchmarks, but with 4GB worth of memory I don't see how it might not run at max settings smoothly?

 

I have a 27" i7 iMac from May this year with the 2GB 680M card and it runs everything I've tried with no problems at all, so the 780M will be even better.

In say Planetside 2 I'm running 1440p on medium/high settings, getting 60-70fps and it looks incredible.

This is running Bootcamp 5.0 with Win7...

 

Quote:

Performance

In our gaming tests the GeForce GTX 780M was able to gain a 30 percent lead to the older Nvidia Geforce GTX 680M thanks to the additional shader cores and higher clock rates. That makes the GTX 780M the fastest single mobile graphics card in summer 2013 and 10 - 15 percent faster than the AMD Radeon HD 8970M. The GPU has enough power to run demanding games of 2012 fluently with Full HD resolution and maxed out graphical settings. Battlefield 3, Skyrim, and Crysis 2, for example, are playable at the highest detail settings

 

Thanks for the input Georgio! Did you fly the sim with full settings? What was the framerate? Do you have Rise of Flight?

[Sim]

Money is not the issue, what I need is a platform that will run both, and I can't wait for the new Mac Pro (unfortunately). It'd be interesting to see some benchmarks, but with 4GB worth of memory I don't see how it might not run at max settings smoothly?

 

A 4 GB vram card is not going to run BOS better than a 2 GB vram card, as last time I checked BOS was using around 1.3 GB vram on my system (the higher vram is mostly useful for triple screen setups and high anti-aliasing settings, which the 780M will not be able to utilize anyway).

 

Use this chart to see exactly where that 780M will stand (and if you have any friends with other GPUs you can use that for comparison as a reference):

 

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

 

As an example, I have GTX 760, it's faster than the 780M and yet I would still recommend getting something on par of GTX 770 for BoS for smooth gameplay on 1080p.

 

It's a bit relative, as for some people 30 fps is a smooth gameplay experience. Or the fact you can always drop graphic settings to medium/balanced levels.

[Gort]

Well if you really want to dredge up the snob issue, I'm going to order a new Mac Pro the day it goes on sale. I do sports photography and video on the side, and am currently using a seven year old Mac Pro that is outside the specs of IL-2:BOS.

 

Like you, I use both OS's, but the Mac's integrated nature makes what I do far less frustrating and far quicker. A lot of what I do is logistics and organization, the editing is easy and fun. The computer isn't in the way if that makes sense.

 

The 27" iMac would be the way to go as it has replaceable RAM and excellent performance, but I wouldn't buy a Mac to play sims. You buy a mac for reliability in workflow, and accept whatever it can muster for sims as a secondary function. That said, the 27 inch iMac is pretty capable.

 

Have you looked at www.barefeats.com for performance results?

Edited November 22, 2013 by Victory205

[Sternjaeger]

oh yes, if my priority was simming I would have probably got a custom-made PC rig, and even if I wanted to I wouldn't even know where to start, as it's been a while since I owned a gaming PC!

 

I might get the iMac now and then sell it once the Pro comes out, or just wait for the Pro... decisions, decisions... 

 

Thanks for the extra info Sim, regarding the FPS, I wonder whether you actually need more than 30/40fps in a sim? You don't get the insane refresh rates of first person shooters normally.. Also (and again pardon my technical utter ignorance) when you say 1080p what does that translate into in terms of screen resolution?

[LLv44_Mprhead]

1080p means 1920x1080 resolution.

[FlatSpinMan]

Good question. I had no idea what 1080p meant, either. And as for fps - I do wonder about what is acceptable. I've always had a computer tha twas struggling a bit as games aren't that important to me, so I've never gotten into the X fps debates. As long as I can play it and it is smooth enough that I don't lose sight of in game objects then it's fine for me.

mprhead - thank you! How the %'#%$ do they work that out, or at least assign the designation?

[sop]

How the %'#%$ do they work that out, or at least assign the designation?

They mean they are widescreen display formats that have an aspect ratio of 16:9.

 

The number they give you before p (1080) is the height resolution. Multiply by 16 then divide by 9 to get the WIDTH (1080*16/9 = 1920).

 

Yeah can be confusing as hell!

[FlatSpinMan]

Thanks sop

I feel like such a dumbass for not realising such a simple, transparent event.

[Sim]

TV manufacturers wanted a simple consumer-friendly way of saying how good their TV resolution was. And since advertising a TV having a 1920x1080 resolution didn't impress the average Joe - they decided the best thing is to call it "full HD 1080p experience"

[Gort]

Do you have an external monitor? If so, wait until next month to order a Mac Pro (who knows when they will actually ship)! If not, then get a 27" iMac with the i7. There you go, problem solved!

[Sternjaeger]

would the i7 be better then? Again, dumbleton here knows jack about hardware... what are the perks of an i7 as opposed to the i5?

[sop]

i7's generally have more cache and are better at hyper-threading than i5s, if you multitask a lot or for example use programmes such as sony vegas for rendering and making making videos, i7 would be the better choice, an i5 of similar generation will game just as good as an i7.

Edited November 22, 2013 by sop

[Sternjaeger]

ermagherd, look at this... quite tempted to wait now...

 

http://www.apple.com/uk/mac-pro/specs/

[Gort]

Yes, I assumed you needed a Mac for video/image work?

 

Aperture and Final Cut Pro X are being rewritten to take advantage of the. Mac Pro's configuration. The Pro's start at $2999 and go up rapidly from there!

[Georgio]

I still firmly on the fence regarding this sim, so I haven't tried it with my iMac, however, RoF, DCS A-10, CloD all run as smooth as with everything maxed out, so with the 780M supposed to be 30% better than my 680M then I would imagine BoS wouldn't be a problem.

To be honest if you go for the best i7 iMac with a fusion drive, 16GB of RAM and the 780M then I'd save your money on the Pro unless you're a drug dealer and need to launder some serious cash.... :D

 

Money is not the issue, what I need is a platform that will run both, and I can't wait for the new Mac Pro (unfortunately). It'd be interesting to see some benchmarks, but with 4GB worth of memory I don't see how it might not run at max settings smoothly?

 

 

 

Thanks for the input Georgio! Did you fly the sim with full settings? What was the framerate? Do you have Rise of Flight?

[Grifter]

Technically guys, the whole i vs. p thing is not applicable to monitors, as all display content progressively, i.e., each of the individual 1080 lines of horizontal part of the picture is drawn with every scan pass (from top to bottom of screen). In the television world, many manufacturers use interpolated 1080 where the set alternates between two sets of lines (1, 3, 5, 7... then 2, 4, 5, 8... on the next scan pass); NBC and I think CBS use 1080i, ABC and FOX stick to 720p for its ability to display sports programming (rapid movement) better.

 

Sternjager, my good local friend Dave was just telling me the other week he gave away his PC and strictly uses a 27" i-Mac with the Fusion setup, not sure on the videocard he picked. He did mention that in some FPS games he had to lower the details somewhat, so I am inclined to think that he doesn't have a top grade card. Anyway, he absolutely loves it and is in the same position you are with work, etc. Of course, he also has an i-Pad and MacPro notebook as well, so I wasn't all that surprised.

I have heard excellent feedback on the Fusion setup, Apple finally did it justice by ramping up the cache to 16GB on the SSD portion, it really makes a difference. Suppose you could go with the 21.5" version that is available with the latest Haswell Intel CPU chip.

Good luck!