Why are the me109f4 in bos is so OP

[Bearcat]

It has nothing to ego...................................................

 

 

You are taking all this way to seriously..

[Original_Uwe]

This is called a E-sport and it has nothing to honor nor pride.

 

If you want to continue this offtopic, go to prv .

"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games."

Hemingway.

 

'nuff said.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Any possibility to see this "epic duel of the week" by mere mortal ? I'm no good pilot but I always enjoy seeing two good pilots competing since possibly I could learn something, and so I was curious if any of you gentleman decided to record it ?

 

Cheers

[Blakhart]

S! Invictus, looking forward for re-match in CloD. Hope the burgers were awesome

 

When you will get some experience Bearcat you will understand. 

 

You can watch it on YT Hiro:
Gladiators, Adrenaline, King of the hill, Prince of the hill, 

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/GOVPTV  - GOVP team channel

https://www.youtube.com/user/JG154Walter  

 

Or join =LG= team on sunday evenings and watch how we train on Berloga.
You can find our TS in our team topic.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Interesting statment about 109 performance against Hurricane.

 

https://m.youtube.com/?reload=7&rdm=21rg1m681#/watch?v=A7USd78ZrrE

[coconut]

Tomcat, that link did not work for me. But this one did:

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

They aren't but the Bf109 f4's are slightly OP.

 

nudge nudge nudge nudge

Edited June 24, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[CUJO_1970]

What I'm seeing online is 109s massacring Soviet fighters.

 

On the deck it can be close, but at altitude it resembles abuse. I don't fly the 109 online but that's what I see.

[GridiroN]

I personally think it has nothing to do with the fighter and is entirely the pilot. I get my ass kicked by enough of the expert Soviet pilots of WoL server to know having a BF109 that's really only got a climb advantage in actual play does not make one a 1337 H4XX0R.

 

Hell I've seen someone in an IL2 kill a BF. Having a better tool is not going to make up for significant differences in skill, and two pilots with equal skill are going to know exactly what their planes can and cannot do.

 

If anything, the current state of WoL is all the experts playing LaGG's and YaKs, and the Germans are newbs in 109's getting wrecked, and the dedicated 110'ers going after strategic points. I don't know who is seeing 109's massacring Soviets.

Edited June 28, 2016 by GridiroN

[CUJO_1970]

On official 1CGS DED Server with normal settings.

[Venturi]

I personally think it has nothing to do with the fighter and is entirely the pilot. I get my ass kicked by enough of the expert Soviet pilots of WoL server to know having a BF109 that's really only got a climb advantage in actual play does not make one a 1337 H4XX0R.

 

Hell I've seen someone in an IL2 kill a BF. Having a better tool is not going to make up for significant differences in skill, and two pilots with equal skill are going to know exactly what their planes can and cannot do.

 

If anything, the current state of WoL is all the experts playing LaGG's and YaKs, and the Germans are newbs in 109's getting wrecked, and the dedicated 110'ers going after strategic points. I don't know who is seeing 109's massacring Soviets.

 

That's because if you put equally good pilots in equally good teamwork into 109F4s and Yak 1s, the Germans will win. If you change those out for LaGGs, the Germans will dominate. The 109F4 is the better plane, as it ought to be. Expert pilots like to have a challenge and it is too easy to win outright by going 109F4.

[ACG_pezman]

Yeah, but what about the fact that the 109 adjustable stabilizer is broken and works way better than it would IRL?  One area that the Yak should have a fun time with the 109 is in a turn-and-burn dogfight.  But with that super fast adjustable stabilizer (and the nice stall characteristics of the 109) it can now out turn the Yak at all speeds.

 

Something doesn't seem right about that.  Especially when the 109 has the gondolas attached and can still hang with you.

[JtD]

Why should the Yak have a fun time in a turn-and-burn dogfight with a 109?

[JG13_opcode]

To win against the 109 I find you need to keep it fast.

 

At low speeds with the leading edge slats out I'd expect the 109 to have the advantage

Edited July 12, 2016 by 13GIAP_opcode

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

On official 1CGS DED Server with normal settings.

 

Where you get almost perfect Situational Awareness and can easily deduce the enemy planes energy state by their distance and closure rates - yes the 109 is in its element, as you can utilise its strengths at will and plan when to attack or disengage.

 

You typically won't get the same warning that your about to have a red plane with a positional or energy advantage on you to be able to plan to counter early on expert difficulty servers.

[III/JG2Gustav05]

Yeah, but what about the fact that the 109 adjustable stabilizer is broken and works way better than it would IRL?  One area that the Yak should have a fun time with the 109 is in a turn-and-burn dogfight.  But with that super fast adjustable stabilizer (and the nice stall characteristics of the 109) it can now out turn the Yak at all speeds.

 

Something doesn't seem right about that.  Especially when the 109 has the gondolas attached and can still hang with you.

Any real proof to say the stabilzer of 109F and 109G in game is better than in real life? lots western pilots have such comment just becasue they are not used to the way to fly it comparing with allied fighters.

 

109 with gondolas is still a decent fighter in 1942. As I know some fins fly it with a lot success.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

 

 

Any real proof to say the stabilzer of 109F and 109G in game is better than in real life?

 

The amount of full wheel turns is less than in real 109. 

[III/JG2Gustav05]

The amount of full wheel turns is less than in real 109. 

 

I use a steering wheel for mapping the 109's stabilizer control. I prefer this way than mapping it to a slide bar on the joystick because it can give you the more precious control. Actually fast adjusting stabilizer by using slide bar cannot give you any advantage but only make you AC get structure failure at high speed in this game.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

steering wheel

from car sim? 

 

 

 

Actually fast adjusting stabilizer by using slide bar cannot give you any advantage but only make you AC get structure failure at high speed in this game.

 

 How fast or slow you move this slide bar is controller by you, so you can judge how hard you can pull on given speed/dive.

 

Maybe dumping or compressibility is not in match with elevator, but i don't know if it should be or how much be in the first place. I remember in alpha version stabilizer was so fast and responsive that i was using it like magic control  :-) 

 

 

btw. Stabilizer is the best when desperately you want go out from dive and earth is closing fast :-)  Because using only elevator won't get you out from meeting mother earth ;-)

Edited July 13, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[III/JG2Gustav05]

from car sim? 

 

 

 

 

 How fast or slow you move this slide bar is controller by you, so you can judge how hard you can pull on given speed/dive.

 

Maybe dumping or compressibility is not in match with elevator, but i don't know if it should be or how much be in the first place. I remember in alpha version stabilizer was so fast and responsive that i was using it like magic control  :-) 

 

 

btw. Stabilizer is the best when desperately you want go out from dive and earth is closing fast :-)  Because using only elevator won't get you out from meeting mother earth ;-)

Yes I use a steering wheel for car sim but put it on the side of me. I think they already tuned down the authority of it after the alpha version. besides for other ACs you can have the same magic control by using elevator trim, right?

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

It's a known bug that the wheel only turns 1 time and has nothing to do with trim speed, which currently is as intendet.

 

Mapping trim to a slider doesnt give you faster turn speed.

 

Pullout from dives with trim wheel is realistic and well documented.

Edited July 13, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Without giving away the cheat, I understand it can be mapped to a control device which does give a significant advantage. It's been acknowledged. I hope it gets fixed. I don't Game the stab and P3z can attest I can be forced into a draw in my 109 because of this

[Bert_Foster]

Trim on a slider ..... where are you Ray-Ban-Jockey

[ACG_pezman]

...

 

Maybe dumping or compressibility is not in match with elevator, but i don't know if it should be or how much be in the first place.

 

This is another problem I am seeing with the 109.  I don't care that it has leading edge slats, so does the mig and la5, but when the stab is cranked to max nose up and you pull on the stick as hard as you want, the tendency for the aircraft to buffet and stall from extreme AOA is not there.  There is some buffeting but no stall.

 

I think this allows the stab exploit to be used because there is no penalty for high AOA maneuvers.  No other aircraft in the game can compete in turn with a 109 at all speed ranges.

 

And while I have never had airframe failure with the 109 I have had it in the 190. 

 

I'm telling you the 109G is broken and it is being exploited on all servers now.  I rarely see a 109F or a 190 now... everything is G2's with gondolas because they offer no penalty. 

[III/JG2Gustav05]

This is another problem I am seeing with the 109.  I don't care that it has leading edge slats, so does the mig and la5, but when the stab is cranked to max nose up and you pull on the stick as hard as you want, the tendency for the aircraft to buffet and stall from extreme AOA is not there.  There is some buffeting but no stall.

 

I think this allows the stab exploit to be used because there is no penalty for high AOA maneuvers.  No other aircraft in the game can compete in turn with a 109 at all speed ranges.

 

And while I have never had airframe failure with the 109 I have had it in the 190. 

 

I'm telling you the 109G is broken and it is being exploited on all servers now.  I rarely see a 109F or a 190 now... everything is G2's with gondolas because they offer no penalty.

if you never have 109 airframe failure that means you did not pulll the column as hard as you did on 190 or 109 has elevator authority problem, I did not play on line for very long time. but I can produce 109 airframe failure in offline play.

Edited July 17, 2016 by III/JG2Gustav05

[Irgendjemand]

if you never have 109 airframe failure that means you did not pulll the column as hard as you did on 190 or 109 has elevator authority problem, I did not play on line for very long time. but I can produce 109 airframe failure in offline play.

Just dive with 700, pull stick and add a little noseup stabilizer and the wings are gone. Nothing easier but to break the 109 in a dive.

[ACG_pezman]

if you never have 109 airframe failure that means you did not pulll the column as hard as you did on 190 or 109 has elevator authority problem, I did not play on line for very long time. but I can produce 109 airframe failure in offline play.

 

 

Just dive with 700, pull stick and add a little noseup stabilizer and the wings are gone. Nothing easier but to break the 109 in a dive.

 

Well I must say it's good to hear that the problem may be that I never went fast enough to pull the wings off, guess that means I have learned something in all my time flying in this game.

 

However that was just an anecdote to what I believe the real problem is, which is the time it takes for the adjustable stabilizer to traverse from maximum nose down to maximum nose up, at all airspeeds.  Especially when we know that the pilot could only turn the wheel a quarter turn before having to reach back up to the top of the wheel and continue the turning. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

As I posted in another topic:

 

The Bf-109 had a sensetive stabilizer trim that worked effectively at all speeds. The manual does mention the use of trim to recover the aircraft from high airspeed dives when the elevator becomes uneffective/too heavy and there's a detailed testing document of a F/Pre G series aircraft undegroing high speed dive and recovery trials. INfact the trim was so sensetive pilots were advised to use it with great caution as you could overstrain the airframe when applying too much of it (a finnish pilot report mentioned that the pilot used a bit of flaps to recover from his dive instead of trim because he felt it was less dangerous).

 

So making the wheel rotate slower at higher airspeeds is technicly not right. What could be done is changing the wheel rotation motion from continues to incremental. That way trim action would be interrupted every ~ half rotation of the trim and overall trim time increases by the ammount of breaks beween the increments so the pilot needs to spend more caution while trimming the airplane. However, no sim has really attempted this before and I'm not sure what ressources are required to get this to work perfectly with key and axis input.

Edited July 19, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[ACG_pezman]

As I posted in another topic:

 

The Bf-109 had a sensetive stabilizer trim that worked effectively at all speeds. The manual does mention the use of trim to recover the aircraft from high airspeed dives when the elevator becomes uneffective/too heavy and there's a detailed testing document of a F/Pre G series aircraft undegroing high speed dive and recovery trials. INfact the trim was so sensetive pilots were advised to use it with great caution as you could overstrain the airframe when applying too much of it (a finnish pilot report mentioned that the pilot used a bit of flaps to recover from his dive instead of trim because he felt it was less dangerous).

 

So making the wheel rotate slower at higher airspeeds is technicly not right. What could be done is changing the wheel rotation motion from continues to incremental. That way trim action would be interrupted every ~ half rotation of the trim and overall trim time increases by the ammount of breaks beween the increments so the pilot needs to spend more caution while trimming the airplane. However, no sim has really attempted this before and I'm not sure what ressources are required to get this to work perfectly with key and axis input.

 

Stuka, I agree with what you think should be done to fix it.  If they could do that I would be very happy (not that I am not with this game already).  I believe that incremental break would add just enough time to the adjustment that it would bring it back in line with historical use and performance. 

[JG13_opcode]

Hard to say for sure with no source code access but typically these things can be accomplished by:

 

-making the control a "button" much like a trimmer

-button causes the horizontal trim to move by some fixed amount, and applies the animation to the game object

-prevent another stab movement from beginning until the animation has completed

 

In other words not difficult, just time-consuming and surely low priority.

Edited July 19, 2016 by 13GIAP_opcode

[III/JG2Gustav05]

But I think the limit of max rotation speed of stabilizer on 109 already implemented in this game currently, and how about the other ACs? I think Yak can do same thing with the trim wheel. peoples keep addressing this because 109s have better climb rate and can take a favorite position more easily to perform dive attack.

[JG13_opcode]

But I think the limit of max rotation speed of stabilizer on 109 already implemented in this game currently, and how about the other ACs? I think Yak can do same thing with the trim wheel.

Can you even assign trim on the Yak to an axis? I have mine on a hat switch.

 

peoples keep addressing this because 109s have better climb rate and can take a favorite position more easily to perform dive attack.

Pretty much, yup.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

The Bf-109's stabilizer is the only trim assingable to an axis. All other aircraft use the standard pitch trim button function (not sure about the Fw190).

 

Thechnicly the stabilizer of the 109 and the elevator flap trim of let's say the Yak differ significantly from each other. That's why the Bf-109's trim should perfrom different (better) than the Yak's flap trim especially at very high airspeeds when compressebility hits in (not sure this is modeled ingame).

[III/JG2Gustav05]

Can you even assign trim on the Yak to an axis? I have mine on a hat switch.

 

Seems cannot assign it on an axis. actually I prefer the axis one because you can control it more precisely as I said before. for example I think the button controlled trim on Fw190 works too fast for me.  one thing I do not understand that seems the planes like Yak also has the wheel to control the elevator trim in real life but why we cannot map it to an axis in this game?

[LukeFF]

 

 

The Bf-109's stabilizer is the only trim assignable to an axis.

 

The MC202 also has an adjustable stabilizer like the 109's.  

[Venturi]

Flaps and trim had same number of turns lock to lock.... by design.... lowering flaps also changed trim to maintain trim balance if one simply grabbed both halves of the wheel and turned both equally.... also by design.... same trim wheel, different half only.... designed to change both at once....

 

Here's retracting takeoff flaps in a REAL bf 109.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jenWQy4Zm-w&feature=youtu.be&t=1m8s

 

it's eight seconds to retract take off flaps.... watch his left arm....

 

and here's one showing what 6 revolutions of the flap wheel looks like....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcMjhihuuX8

 

 

... 

Edited July 24, 2016 by Venturi

[ACG_pezman]

Wow, if that were implemented on the flaps and stabilizer in-game, that would defenetly change how the 109's attack and fight.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The Bf-109's stabilizer is the only trim assingable to an axis. All other aircraft use the standard pitch trim button function (not sure about the Fw190).

 

Thechnicly the stabilizer of the 109 and the elevator flap trim of let's say the Yak differ significantly from each other. That's why the Bf-109's trim should perfrom different (better) than the Yak's flap trim especially at very high airspeeds when compressebility hits in (not sure this is modeled ingame).

Stab trim on the 190 is by button in-game as it was electric and actuated by buttons in real life as well.

[III/JG2Gustav05]

Wow, if that were implemented on the flaps and stabilizer in-game, that would defenetly change how the 109's attack and fight.

Please try to fly 109 in current version. You will notice that it is not agile as you think. it has changed a lot since the BOS released.

[Venturi]

What does that have to do with the trim not taking as long as the flaps to go from lock to lock?