FOCKO Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 We are all familiar with this "famous" graph. But is it real? Does anyone have the Test report about this me109f4? I want the altitude vs.TAS graph......
L3Pl4K Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) This graph is for the old cooler model/winter condtions/Notleistung. This is from a real Bf109 F4: http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109F4_Datenblatts/109F4_dblatt_flown.html 6,2 KM Volldruckhöhe/Kampfleistung= 660km/h. Edited June 14, 2016 by L3Pl4K
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) OP? Why are all aircraft in this game overmodeled? Well... Except for that one with the ones and the nineties... Edited June 14, 2016 by Space_Ghost 1
FTC_Blaky Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 We are all familiar with this "famous" graph. But is it real? Does anyone have the Test report about this me109f4? I want the altitude vs.TAS graph...... Sir, the planes in the game don't behave according to this graph.
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Go on the Developer Diary and look for DD126 I think. It contains flight test data for the game at different altitudes.
Original_Uwe Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 I think the Luftwaffe aircraft are pretty damn close actually, in regard to speed. The 190 though my lord lol.
Dutchvdm Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Go on the Developer Diary and look for DD126 I think. It contains flight test data for the game at different altitudes. Close. It's 123. Grt M
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Thank you for the correction For quick reference, the list as it stands: I-16 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Boosted: 448 km/h Maximum ground speed at 1800 m, engine mode - Nominal: 460 km/h Maximum ground speed at 4500 m, engine mode - Nominal: 490 km/h MiG-3 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Boosted: 525 km/h Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Nominal: 493 km/h Maximum ground speed at 7600 m, engine mode - Nominal: 626 km/h P-40E Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Take-off: 494 km/h Maximum ground speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Take-off: 601 km/h Bf-109E-7 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 477 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 520 km/h Maximum ground speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 564 km/h Bf-109F-2 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 528 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 563 km/h Maximum ground speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 606 km/h Bf-110E-2 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 456 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 494 km/h Maximum ground speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 529 km/h C.202 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 500 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Combat: 543 km/h Maximum ground speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Combat: 604 km/h LaGG-3 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Nominal: 505 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Nominal: 548 km/h Maximum ground speed at 4000 m, engine mode - Nominal: 573 km/h Yak-1 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Nominal: 516 km/h Maximum ground speed at 1500 m, engine mode - Nominal: 549 km/h Maximum ground speed at 4000 m, engine mode - Nominal: 584 km/h La-5 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Boosted: 544 km/h Maximum ground speed at 3000 m, engine mode - Nominal: 571 km/h Maximum ground speed at 6500 m, engine mode - Nominal: 603 km/h Bf-109F-4 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 522 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Combat: 570 km/h Maximum ground speed at 6000 m, engine mode - Combat: 635 km/h Bf-109G-2 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 525 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Combat: 569 km/h Maximum ground speed at 7000 m, engine mode - Combat: 648 km/h Fw-190A-3 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 555 km/h Maximum ground speed at 3000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 574 km/h Maximum ground speed at 6700 m, engine mode - Emergency: 667 km/h 3
ShamrockOneFive Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Lucas, do you know if anyone ever put this into a graph of some kind? Might be something I do if I get bored
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 I don't think anyone's done it in full, so go ahead by all means! It would be nice to have the DD123 information as easily accessible graphs. Someone put together a program in the vein of Il2Compare, but that isn't as practical for someone casually browsing
YSoMadTovarisch Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Well current it's overperforming at high speed, it also has great turning capability, much more so than the G2, and I'm not sure if it's because the slats on the f4 bleed too little speed or the G2's slats bleed too much speed.
Irgendjemand Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 What exactly does low alt high alt mean? Are you trying to tell me the FW is the fastest plane at all heights?
Dutchvdm Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 What exactly does low alt high alt mean? Are you trying to tell me the FW is the fastest plane at all heights? I think it's everything below 2000 meter. Grt M
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 See my post for the specifics but yes, the Fw-190 seems to be the fastest across the board, thanks Wicher. It would be nice to have the graph translated into one like the first post's - maximum speed by height.
NN_RugbyGoth Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Speed is a thing, but turn characteristics are also to be looked at. 2 days ago, with a buddy we tryed to go on BERLOGA for some quick dogfight. Witrh our yaks we couldn't match the 109, even when they had their pods... We fly almost only on yaks, so we know this plane! SO, I tried to fly a 109f4, after 10 flights with only 1 assist in my beloved yak, I had 2 kills and 2 assists in 1 sortie wirth the 109!The more impressive was the angle in the roll I could take to turn. I put the plane 90° on the right, pull the joystick hard, I blackout, my plane is not even shaking! Like it would never stall. The same maneuver with any russian plane and I was done, a hole in the ground! I don't know if it's historical. But the thing is that I never fly this plane, and in the same scenario as with the yak that is a plane that I know well, I could achieve far more in less time. Anyone with stats on turn time and how pods are degrading this? Thanks!
Irgendjemand Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 See my post for the specifics but yes, the Fw-190 seems to be the fastest across the board, thanks Wicher. It would be nice to have the graph translated into one like the first post's - maximum speed by height. Maybe on the paper. In reality (in arcade i should rather say) no matter the height in a rotte with F4 while flying an FW youre ALWAYS behind when all fly continuous power.
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 All speeds for the Fw-190 are in emergency power, while the Bf-109F-4 ones are in combat. Nominal is yet a different story, no need to get dramatic
Stig Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Funny how different perspectives can be http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17361&p=230459&viewfull=1#post230459
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Incredible So, empirically we can deduce that both Bf-109F-4 and LaGG-3 are OP über rides? 1
Kurfurst Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 We are all familiar with this "famous" graph. But is it real? Does anyone have the Test report about this me109f4? I want the altitude vs.TAS graph...... This looks more like K-4 than F-4 lol. That being said, there is a curve for an F-4 for Notleistung (Emergency 1,42ata) from Rechlin flight trials (no testing details available though) which gives 670 km/h top speed at the said rating. This should be available in the sim as well, since that rating was cleared at the end of 1941 already... and I very much doubt it was a one-minute-then-engine-failure rating. For Combat (1,3ata) rating there are several conflicting figures, one is that's been posted by L3Pl4K already, which comes from flight trials and are at 1.3ata, but the results are rather high and odd at 660 km/h. Not impossible, but definietely on the high side. Perhaps the tested plane was exceptionally good or some correction like compressibility reduction was not made, because at lower levels its similar to the others, which mostly go around at 635 km/h at altitude (including Messerschmitt's own calculations for the type). The Russians also got similar results from captured examples IIRC. Now as for the F-4 being OP, it was pretty much OP in RL too, and late versions in 1942 were quite similar to the G-2 in most respects.
FTC_Blaky Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Gentlemen, I ran a couple of tests a few weeks ago to check the graph in the first post. My conditions were: 55% fuel (about 5% were used to get to the top speed), armed, level flight at the ground level (300 m). As I fly LW planes mostly, I had flown VVS planes to check engine settings, radiators, etc. These were the best results I got, autumn/winter. AUTUMN: YAK MIG FW190 combat Bf-109G2 - combat Edited June 15, 2016 by II./JG53_Wolf_Ettel
FTC_Blaky Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Now see what happen in winter with the same settings.YAK FW190 - combat Bf-109 G2 MIG There was a little mistake in Fw190 in autumn as flew it with 1.3, not 1.32, so it could be a tiny better. In LW planes rads were on auto. My opinion: The planes should go in order, according to Devs, such as Lucas wrote above. In my opinion, the game does not reflect that, especially in winter is the list completely wrong (I mean the order of planes according to their speed). I know I should have tested it with 100% but nobody flies with that amount in real MP combat. I wanted to get "real" values I encounter in MP and this actually corresponds with my "feelings" (which I know could be wrong). In Autumn it looks good, I got about what I should have (I am not a master in VVS, so some might sqeez more out of the mig). Bf-109 G2 should be a little faster than YAK (according to devs) in the game (under the same conditions) but it is significantly slower in winter. I-16 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Boosted: 448 km/h Maximum ground speed at 1800 m, engine mode - Nominal: 460 km/h Maximum ground speed at 4500 m, engine mode - Nominal: 490 km/h MiG-3 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Boosted: 525 km/h Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Nominal: 493 km/h Maximum ground speed at 7600 m, engine mode - Nominal: 626 km/h P-40E Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Take-off: 494 km/h Maximum ground speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Take-off: 601 km/h Bf-109E-7 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 477 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 520 km/h Maximum ground speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 564 km/h Bf-109F-2 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 528 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 563 km/h Maximum ground speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 606 km/h Bf-110E-2 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 456 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 494 km/h Maximum ground speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 529 km/h C.202 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 500 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Combat: 543 km/h Maximum ground speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Combat: 604 km/h LaGG-3 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Nominal: 505 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Nominal: 548 km/h Maximum ground speed at 4000 m, engine mode - Nominal: 573 km/h Yak-1 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Nominal: 516 km/h Maximum ground speed at 1500 m, engine mode - Nominal: 549 km/h Maximum ground speed at 4000 m, engine mode - Nominal: 584 km/h La-5 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Boosted: 544 km/h Maximum ground speed at 3000 m, engine mode - Nominal: 571 km/h Maximum ground speed at 6500 m, engine mode - Nominal: 603 km/h Bf-109F-4 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 522 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Combat: 570 km/h Maximum ground speed at 6000 m, engine mode - Combat: 635 km/h Bf-109G-2 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 525 km/h Maximum ground speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Combat: 569 km/h Maximum ground speed at 7000 m, engine mode - Combat: 648 km/h Fw-190A-3 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 555 km/h Maximum ground speed at 3000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 574 km/h Maximum ground speed at 6700 m, engine mode - Emergency: 667 km/h Edited June 15, 2016 by II./JG53_Wolf_Ettel
MiloMorai Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 http://beim-zeugmeister.de/zeugmeister/index.php?id=21&L=1 for real life data
Matt Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 I made the graph in the OP around two years ago during the BoS beta and it was on the Winter map. It's no longer valid for the current version and it never has been valid for anything but the -15°C back then.
mb339pan Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) wrong! F4 end F2 is faster at low altitude compared to G2 at 100% trottle Edited June 15, 2016 by 150GCT_Pan
Blakhart Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Funny how different perspectives can be http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17361&p=230459&viewfull=1#post230459 Youtube ace... I would like to challenge that guy 1 on 1.
ACG_Invictus Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 Youtube ace... I would like to challenge that guy 1 on 1. Ahhhhh ha....so this post is what motivated you to start harassing me, eh Blackhead? As I said....the ego problem is yours, not mine. Enjoy your day!
ACG_Invictus Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell, on 15 Jun 2016 - 06:53, said: Incredible So, empirically we can deduce that both Bf-109F-4 and LaGG-3 are OP über rides? Nope. I've revised my conclusion since I wrote the post on our forum. I am back to believing there is no Russian bias in BoS.....but there is the little matter of this that might have had something to do with what I described: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/22824-encouraging-fair-play/?do=findComment&comment=363776 BTW Blackhead....I thought you said you just "ran across" my video and decided to challenge me? But based on your post...its kinda easy to see you lied about that as well. Both your credibility and character are really shining at this point. :D Edited June 17, 2016 by ATAG_Invictus
216th_Lucas_From_Hell Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 Could have been it, I usually stay away from Wings of Liberty so thankfully I didn't come across such types. Nothing personal, I just always find the 'bias' talk entertaining ever since the old Il-2 because in the end everyone thinks the 'other side' has an unfair advantage and so on. When that's happening it's usually a sign things are on the right track. In DCS the English-speaking community thinks the AMRAAM performs poorly and the Russian-speaking community believes it performs too well.
ACG_Invictus Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) Could have been it, I usually stay away from Wings of Liberty so thankfully I didn't come across such types. Nothing personal, I just always find the 'bias' talk entertaining ever since the old Il-2 because in the end everyone thinks the 'other side' has an unfair advantage and so on. When that's happening it's usually a sign things are on the right track. In DCS the English-speaking community thinks the AMRAAM performs poorly and the Russian-speaking community believes it performs too well. Agreed and that's why I don't normally consider it (even for more infamous examples like War Thunder). What happened to me in that one situation was so out of whack I jumped off the deep end. And I admit there is another explanation... it could have been my unfamiliarity with the 109 in BoS. I am still relatively new to the sim. :/ That said, I do enjoy it! No sim is perfect or ever will be....but this one is a lot of fun. o7 BTW....from the YouTube videos I watch the AAMRAM in DCS seems to work just fine. :D Edited June 17, 2016 by ATAG_Invictus
Blakhart Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) It has nothing to ego. I challenged you because I want to check your skill. Some time ago I was trying to find a oponent to train 1vs1 in CloD and was looking for a good pilots on ATAG forum. http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-6789.html What I only found there was [edited] guys without guts. Some ATAG & AKA members. [edited] Funniest part was when some of them were trying to scary me off talking about their "local" aces. And what ? Nothing happened. I wanted to fight against guys who have more experience in that game than I and they didnt even had courage to stand against me. Only Kling fought with me ( S! to him for the duels ). Rest of the them participated in that discussion were [edited] Thats why I dont have any respect to ATAG & AKA team. If you say something you do something. Thats how men do. [edited] So...You act and probably think about yourself as a "killer" so thats why I want to have your "head" in my collection. I installed the CloD and I`m ready for the duel. Will you runawy now [edited]? Edited June 17, 2016 by SYN_Haashashin Really??
SYN_Haashashin Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 Mmmmm, Blackhart you should think twice before posting such a thing. Personal insults or aggressive manner towards other members are not permitted in this forum. Do not insult anyone, if you want to duel, fine do it and set a place and time over PM but do not insult people or entire groups. I edited the post since I am not at my computer and it's hard as hell over the phone, I will let other mods to decide if it's need to be gone.
ACG_Invictus Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) ?*sigh* You continue to prove my point but are so immature you can't (or won't) see it. You are a poor sport. [edited] I'm available later today. After 3PM ET works. Edited June 17, 2016 by SYN_Haashashin Have to...
SYN_Haashashin Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 I actually have readed the whole thing now, Blackhart clearly was first offender but not the only one, if you have personal things to say to other members do it over PM, we are all grown man and know how to behave in public. So act civil and all is good, no personal remarks or punch or whatever. Be writing some PM when I get home.
ACG_Invictus Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 I actually have readed the whole thing now, Blackhart clearly was first offender but not the only one, if you have personal things to say to other members do it over PM, we are all grown man and know how to behave in public. So act civil and all is good, no personal remarks or punch or whatever. Be writing some PM when I get home. No need. I attempted to edit my post but you got to it first. My apologies for stepping over the line. o7
Original_Uwe Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 It has nothing to ego. I challenged you because I want to check your skill. Some time ago I was trying to find a oponent to train 1vs1 in CloD and was looking for a good pilots on ATAG forum.http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-6789.html What I only found there was [edited] guys without guts. Some ATAG & AKA members. [edited] Funniest part was when some of them were trying to scary me off talking about their "local" aces. And what ? Nothing happened. I wanted to fight against guys who have more experience in that game than I and they didnt even had courage to stand against me. Only Kling fought with me ( S! to him for the duels ). Rest of the them participated in that discussion were [edited] Thats why I dont have any respect to ATAG & AKA team. If you say something you do something. Thats how men do. [edited] So...You act and probably think about yourself as a "killer" so thats why I want to have your "head" in my collection. I installed the CloD and I`m ready for the duel. Will you runawy now [edited]? Good god man what are you 14? These are video games not a virtual field of honor. Go outside, breath some fresh air, excercise and get your hands in the dirt. It'll clear your head.
ACG_Invictus Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 Good god man what are you 14? These are video games not a virtual field of honor. Go outside, breath some fresh air, excercise and get your hands in the dirt. It'll clear your head. Yep.
Blakhart Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) Good god man what are you 14? These are video games not a virtual field of honor. Go outside, breath some fresh air, excercise and get your hands in the dirt. It'll clear your head. This is called a E-sport and it has nothing to honor nor pride. If you want to continue this offtopic, go to prv . Edited June 17, 2016 by =LG=Blakhart
ACG_Invictus Posted June 17, 2016 Posted June 17, 2016 Glad we reached a better understanding. Well fought and congrats on the win. It was much fun! I look forward to our next encounter.
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