Cockpit simulator - BoS clickable cockpit Poll

[ESCOMM_FlyMaker]

Hi guys

I really love how the cockpit reacts to keyboard commands. Since the cockpit is so well simulated why not have a clickable cockpit?

 

Whats is your opnion?

 

I do not think it's so hard to make this possible with such a functional cockpit.

 

[coconut]

I'd like a clickable cockpit. Not because I want to click through the start sequence, I'd gladly keep the automated start. What I like about clickable cockpits is not having to look up the key combination to set something that I don't do very often. I can live without it in WW2 planes, I think clickable pits are more useful in modern jets.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I voted no because while it's interesting (mostly for the reason coconut listed), it doesn't justify the workload to develop.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Clickable cockpits are a nice feature. They add a bit to the realism, but not as much as people think. 

But most importantly, they matter for that brief period when you start your engine and move towards runway. Or when you land. Else and especially in virtual combat, they dont matter at all. Many people I have seen with key bindings all around HOTAS, making ability to click every single element quite pointless. They have bindings for flaps, being able to extend them in a split of a second when in reality that would mean they have to take hand from throttle and find that damn wheel to rotate it (so with full control cockpit you would have to take your mouse and point cursor on the wheel, then rotate it). And ugh, that would take more then the loop they are just in. Or gunsight, sure you can point at the small switch and click, but in combat nobody will do that. Will just press a button on a keyboard or something, to do this as fast as possible. 

 

Full functionality of the cockpit is unnecessary at this point.You can have similar level without all switches operable.  

 

 

 

I do not think it's so hard to make this possible with such a functional cockpit.

It is. It vastly increases time of development, at least based on DCS experiences, it takes a lot more to produce fully functional cockpit.  

[Jade_Monkey]

Not interested. I find moving from a hotas to a mouse very distracting and the head keeps moving even just a bit with trackir making th clicking difficult.

Part of the reason why i havent touched DCS in so long.

 

The day we switch to VR and we can click with the controllers like the Vive controllers, i might change my vote.

[LLv44_Damixu]

Better to spend development resources elsewhere than clickable cockpit. 

Let's come back to this issue after virtual reality goggles and control devices for then will come to main stream. Then I could see some merit on virtually and visually operate buttons/levers/switches etc.

[BraveSirRobin]

Absolutely not. It requires lots of development time and adds nothing to the game.

[AndyJWest]

Not a priority at all. As has already been said they only ever get much use for startup and the like, and I think that developers' time could be put to better use elsewhere.

[Sokol1]

Mouse clickable cockpit don't matter, is just a convenience, but more interactive cockpit by keys or joy button, yes. 

[seafireliv]

I like the idea of a clickable cockpit especially now I know the basic routine of starting my aircraft.  Pumping the mixture and switching on the radio, etc would be a nice touch.

 

However, this is not an essential for me right now as I feel other priorities should be seen to. But I wouldn`t say no to it.

 

p.s. Actually having those switches configurable to a controller switch like a quadrant set up would be even better.

Edited June 14, 2016 by seafireliv

[pilotpierre]

Tried it in CLOD when it first came out. Got to be an embuggerance in a very short period.

[Feathered_IV]

I don't have any interest in it.  It's a fiddly and inconvenient solution for me.  I'd rather see the developers time go into other things.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'll take more planes, more ground objects, better optimization of what we already have, over clickpits any day, all day.

[xvii-Dietrich]

No thanks.

 

 

As others have said, it would be vastly better to put resources into bug fixes, new aircraft, new maps, etc. and, unless built in from the start, clickable cockpits are likely to be fiddly and bug-ridden in their own right.

 

In contrast to this suggestion of the original post, I would actually advocate the opposite... REMOVE all clickable things. In particular, I want all the controls on the bomb-sight screen to be mappable to keys or controller buttons. Better still would be to have them optionally mappable to axes.

[major_burns]

I don't mind the keys...I made my own control panel with switches. As for instant flaps, that's an easy fix in software...extend them at the same rate you do with a button...slowly.

 

What I really would like is for any action done by the computer during startup or shutdown to be user controllable (through key clicks is fine).  Nothing bores me more than sitting there with all these switches and knobs moving and not being able to control them.

 

One other point.  Rather then 'surprising' me with the next item on the list during a startup/shutdown procedure, display a full checklist and check it off as you go, like a real pilot would do.

[Beazil]

Tried it in CLOD when it first came out. Got to be an embuggerance in a very short period.

Amen. Nice to have, but as soon as I determined a particular function as "necessary" it got mapped to my hotas.

 

Clickable pits are a nice feature, but not a necessity at all.  There are definitely those who would disagree; unfortunately they are probably not here to voice their opinion, as this sim doesn't have that feature, and anyone seeing the clickable pits as a necessity voiced those thoughts when it was announced during development, and left if they couldn't live without it.  I just have no idea how many of those people there are/were.

[Sokol1]

Don't understand we people mention CloD, this have only one click really needed - if opt to don't use keys or joy buttons: turn ON fuel cock. 

 

Curious is DCS P-51, you can click and turn frequency on Detrola receiver, for... nothing. 

[ram0506]

I really would like to have a clickable cockpit.

In my opinion it adds a kind of "relationship" to a cockpit of a certain aircraft. At the moment the functions of all cockpits are more or less the same for me. Pressing the same key starts the electrical systems. magnetos, engine etc. for all aircraft. Ask me: where is the switch for fuel pump or the lever for prop pitch in a certain aircraft? I don`t know, I have to search it, I press key X and use lever Y on my keyboard and throttle. Yes, sure, important functions that I frequently use during flight are mapped to my Joystick or throttle. But it would be nice to be able to have a start up procedure where I can click the magnetos etc manually. This would help me to get to know the cockpits better and to feel a difference in cockpit functionality between all those different aircraft.

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

No for me, waste of dev resources. "Switchologists" are welcome to get DCS to satisfy that itch. 

[Lusekofte]

did not use it in COD myself, but I like it in DCS, save you a lot of keybindings . And it works. But since I used keybindings in COD I would like to do the same here. I like a more complex management. It is obviously in some way modeled

[Sokol1]

, but I like it in DCS, save you a lot of keybindings . 

 

That is the real reason to have clickable cockpits in sim's like DCSW or Falcon, reduce the amount of complicate shortcuts that will be need if don't have this option, not about the (BS) "realism". 

[SharpeXB]

No point in this poll. It's already been stated by the Devs that this feature won't be included

 

It would make the game impossibly expensive. Full system (i.e. Clickable cockpit) planes sell for about $30-$50 apiece in other sims. So making an air combat sim with 10 aircraft like that would make the game cost $300-$500. Or you would buy a $90 game with 2 planes in it.

 

I like DCS a lot but it's a completely different type of sim than BoS.

[novicebutdeadly]

I'll take more planes, more ground objects, better optimization of what we already have, over clickpits any day, all day.

Definitely agree

 

The only thing that I wouldn't mind is more key bindings so that you can manually do the start up sequence if you choose, probably not really suited to online game play but it would be nice to add a bit of immersion to the off line experience.  

[SharpeXB]

Definitely agree

The only thing that I wouldn't mind is more key bindings so that you can manually do the start up sequence if you choose, probably not really suited to online game play but it would be nice to add a bit of immersion to the off line experience.

 

This wouldn't be considered fun for most people, using a keyboard for all these commands.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/17777-silly-start-ups/?p=280025

Edited June 17, 2016 by SharpeXB

[senseispcc]

Click with the mouse and something happens in the cockpit a nice  idea ?!

But do you have 3 hands ?

No !

I have a joystick that use two of them where should I get my 3rd?! (one for direction two for power and many buttons to activate many cockpit functions)

 

:-)

Edited June 17, 2016 by senseispcc

[xvii-Dietrich]

But do you have 3 hands ?

 

Bomber pilots have four hands as standard:

 

 

1. Throttle

2. Stick

3. Mouse

4. Keyboard

 

But long-range bomber pilots have five:

 

5. Coffee cup

[ACG_Invictus]

It would be nice...but it's not critical for me.  I rarely use the clickable items in CLoD and map the most used ones to controller buttons.    It is harder to avoid using the clickable cockpits in DCS, but even there I map as much as I can.  Faster that way...at least for me.

[TP_Jacko]

Tried it on DCS and Clod. So not a big boost for me. I have all my main keys mapped to controllers

[ST_ami7b5]

Devs have already said (iirc) they wil not do it (clickable pits) so I'm afraid this pool is useless...

My opinion:
It's nice for cockpit familiarisation (tried it in DCS) but not such a huge added value - especially if it would mean a lot of work for devs.
So - nice to have, but I can live without it.  

Edited June 17, 2016 by ST_ami7b5

[Dakpilot]

No poll is useless, if 500 people had unanimously responded that click cockpits were very much needed it would have  been food for thought for Dev's...

 

however in this instance it did not seem to be the case ...  Personally for me, having a cursor moving about on screen is less immersive even than a keypress, I do understand the benefits for a study or civil sim in some situations, also for complicated modern Jet avionics

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Solty]

Clickable pits are interesting for a while. You have that sense of "I am doing it" but, that disapears quickly and you start wondering. Maybe if they weren't clickable it would take shorter to make them and would be cheaper? :/

 

So, no. I am not oposing, but I am not for it either.

[ACG_Invictus]

Clickable can also be a pain at times.  There are cockpits in DCS where, if you use TrackIR, you have to move your head all around to see a certain switch or panel.   The placement of the panel or switch is realistic, but it's still a pain in the arse. 

[Lusekofte]

I agree with Sokol 1 , clickable pits simply do not give more immersion. Better immersion is making yourself a panel and use that to key bind your controls. clicking a mouse simply  got nothing to do with WW2 aviation. nor modern I guess

[ZachariasX]

The devs better invest the work required for that in a new aircraft or (even better) scenario.

 

I love clickable cockpits in FSX/P3D, but what works well there has a bit less use in a combat somulator. If you don't map what us required on the HOTAS stick, there be problems.

 

The clickable cockpit in DCS are nice to go through startup or shutdown procedures. But for BoS/M, it is a luxury. In this game, you want to take off rather sooner than later. We have plenty of systems to operate in flight, so in this context I think we're set. Having clickable stuff is certainly nice, but if it comes at expense of other things, then it is maybe not a practical thing.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

"Whatever"

 

If some people want clickable pits, and devs have any willing to do it, I won't complain, but I will not be using it.

As said above, click pits and trackIR are not making a good combo. And I already hate having to use the mouse for map scrolling duties anyways. 

 

But if this would come with some additional controls on the airplane switches (ex. for engine startup), yeah why not as long as I can map them on the keyboard

[wtornado]

I'll take more planes, more ground objects, better optimization of what we already have, over clickpits any day, all day.

ME is pretty barren compared to the old FMB Planes would be nice like a certain Spitfire MKIX.

[Ace_Pilto]

I agree with Sokol 1 , clickable pits simply do not give more immersion. Better immersion is making yourself a panel and use that to key bind your controls. clicking a mouse simply  got nothing to do with WW2 aviation. nor modern I guess

 

Sorry but knowing the layout of the cockpit is a big part of flying. It's really hard to go flying if you can't find the stuff that turns the engine on when you're starting on the ground. If you wait long enough and get lucky a big wind might lift you into the sky but usually you have to switch the thing on yourself and that involves knowing what all the doo-hickeys do and where to find them.

 

Everything is modeled, all it needs is a cursor, some 3d hotspots and a setting in the options that says "Clickable Cockpit off/on"

[Hoots]

Sorry but knowing the layout of the cockpit is a big part of flying. It's really hard to go flying if you can't find the stuff that turns the engine on when you're starting on the ground. If you wait long enough and get lucky a big wind might lift you into the sky but usually you have to switch the thing on yourself and that involves knowing what all the doo-hickeys do and where to find them.

 

Everything is modeled, all it needs is a cursor, some 3d hotspots and a setting in the options that says "Clickable Cockpit off/on"

I would agree if I wasn't sat in my chair playing a computer game. Real life is one thing, but don't get carried away with thinking this game is flying.

[Picchio]

Sorry but knowing the layout of the cockpit is a big part of flying. It's really hard to go flying if you can't find the stuff that turns the engine on when you're starting on the ground. If you wait long enough and get lucky a big wind might lift you into the sky but usually you have to switch the thing on yourself and that involves knowing what all the doo-hickeys do and where to find them.

 

Everything is modeled, all it needs is a cursor, some 3d hotspots and a setting in the options that says "Clickable Cockpit off/on"

 

 

That's what I think too.

 

But I wouldn't be so sure that everything is modeled. It's animated, yes, but being modeled is another story, right? That is probably why it might involve too much work to get fully interactive cockpits.

Perhaps more consistently with the present overall game design and aims, I would be more than satisfied if they could actually improve the way they look... there would be so much to be done on that compartment, too. Especially if they allowed mods, but that's another story.

 

I would agree if I wasn't sat in my chair playing a computer game. Real life is one thing, but don't get carried away with thinking this game is flying.

Right. But for some, clickable cockpits bring the simulation closer to reality. Of course it can be discussed, but I don't think it's wrong.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Picchio

[SharpeXB]

When you say "clickable cockpits" what you're really saying is "full systems modeling"

The two are inseparable. You can't model full systems in a plane without the mouse interactive cockpit because the resulting keyboard commands would be incomprehensible and burdensome. Aircraft presented in a game without full systems don't need a clickable cockpit because the fewer commands can just be handled by a keyboard.

 

Full systems modeling belongs to a different style of flight sim than IL-2. This game is an air warfare simulation which requires many different aircraft available in order to make it realistic and interesting. Giving them all full systems modeling would make the game too expensive.

Planes like the ones in DCS or X-Plane for example sell for anywhere from $30-$50 apiece. Those games aren't "air warfare" sims. They're "study sims" or whatever you want to call them but the focus is on the equipment itself. The corresponding style of game made by ED is Flaming Cliffs where all the aircraft are simple system and cost $10 each.

Making a game thats both study sim and air warfare sim would be impossible since the resulting product would be too costly and time consuming to make. This is one big area Cliffs of Dover went wrong and using that game as an example in discussions like this is not legitimate since that game was financially unsuccessful.

 

As with most of these polls the question is phrased incorrectly

"Do you want _____?" Isn't a legitimate way to phrase the question because it doesn't reflect the resources that go into granting requests. Sure everybody wants everything if you ask them.

 

The more valid way to phrase the questions is:

 

"Would you rather have?

A. An air combat sim with 2 aircraft which included clickable cockpits, for $79.00

B. An air combat sim with 10 aircraft without clickable cockpits, for $79.00

 

That's the realistic choice.

Edited June 20, 2016 by SharpeXB