Making the Default SP campaign a little more interesting... Die.

[seafireliv]

I like PWCG, but I really want to get through the default Campaign just to see if it gets any better (and so I know what I`m talking about when asking for improvements).

 

However, I find the fact that choosing every mission type really dry and boring. So it dawned on me the other day to fish out my old die from years ago and use them.

 

Foir my fighter Campaign I roll 2 six sided die.

 

1-6 : Intercept.

 

7-10 : escourt.

 

11-12 : Ground Attack.

 

It`s very simple, but straight away it added a nice extra dimension the game- What was my next mission going to be? What would command assign to my flight?

 

Game starts to get interesting again.

 

I may change the die type to a d20 (I don`t have a d100 yet) and include type of aircraft assigned to me as well, forcing me to be more adaptable.

 

I have only one question:

 

What should be the % chances of such flight types? Should there be more intercepts, or escorts or ground attacks? I only ever fly fighters.  I suppose it might depend on the events in the war.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Nice idea!

 

About the percentages, as you said it depends. Are you flying Soviet or German?

[Yogiflight]

Did you try Warhamm`s career generator? There you also have your unit like in PWCG and it tells you which kind of mission you have to fly next in the Default campaign. And after the mission you get an AAR. You have the possibility to fly either BOS or BOM.

[seafireliv]

Nice idea!

 

About the percentages, as you said it depends. Are you flying Soviet or German?

Flying Soviet.

 

 

Did you try Warhamm`s career generator? There you also have your unit like in PWCG and it tells you which kind of mission you have to fly next in the Default campaign. And after the mission you get an AAR. You have the possibility to fly either BOS or BOM.

 

 

Nope not tried that.

 

The die idea is something quick to do when you get tired of yet another utility to install!

Edited June 13, 2016 by seafireliv

[No601_Swallow]

... I roll 2 six sided die...

 

 

dice (plural of die). 

[seafireliv]

dice (plural of die).

You got me!

[Yogiflight]

Before I started the campaign generator, I was drawing fold up papers, with the mission types on them, out of a cup.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Lol u should change the title to " Making the default ... Using dice".

 

I saw the title and thought the "die" was some king of sarcasm lol

 

Something like:

 

Making the Default SP campaign a little more interesting... Using Dice? Edited June 13, 2016 by AeroACE

[TG-55Panthercules]

 

Lol u should change the title to " Making the default ... Using dice".

 

I saw the title and thought the "die" was some king of sarcasm lol

 

Something like:

 

Making the Default SP campaign a little more interesting... Using Dice?

 

 

LOL - I was thinking the same thing when I first saw this thread 

[seafireliv]

 

Lol u should change the title to " Making the default ... Using dice".

 

I saw the title and thought the "die" was some king of sarcasm lol

 

Something like:

 

Making the Default SP campaign a little more interesting... Using Dice?

 

 

Perhaps that was...intentional?

 

Ok so enough of the flannel. Any thoughts on what the percentile die rolls should be for each mission type? Just give me the percentages as I can translate that into rolls. Were fighter intercepts more common than escourts? I suspect ground attacks for fighters were less often...

 

Also how likely would it have been to be ordered to change aircraft types say from a Lagg to an LA5 for example?

Edited June 14, 2016 by seafireliv

[unreasonable]

Changing aircraft types - not likely at all unless your unit was being re-equipped, in which you would be out of the front line for a few days (usually) or the rare cases where LW units had temporarily mixed versions of 109s.  Better just to stick to one type for the duration.

 

Mission types - the most common type of fighter mission - a simple CAP or sweep - is missing altogether. Neither side had the radar density or comms structures to make the kind of intercept we get in BoS/BoM likely. 

What would be more likely is a scramble to intercept bombers heading towards a target very close to your own base, or a CAP over a fixed target that might or not lead to contact, or a sweep in an area that again might or might not lead to contact. (Ie like the vastly superior RoF Career mode).

 

As for ground attack in LW fighters: squadrons tended to be dedicated to ground attack. In early 1941,(or late 1940? cannot remember )  for example, one staffel in every 109 gruppe was equipped with bomb racks and expected to perform the jabo role. (Absurd waste of effort btw, for a force short of fighters). Those that were jabo equipped would do it almost exclusively, and those that were not would not do it at all, except perhaps to strafe opportunistically, especially if they were tasked to escort a unit that was doing ground attack. This distinction might well have broken down late in the both battles when gruppes with an establishment of 40 were down to their last few operational planes doing whatever the situation demanded, so you have to use your imagination here. 

 

Soviet doctrine may have been more flexible.

 

I have tried the dice roll and log book approach to improve the stock campaign experience; interested to see if you can make it work for you. (It did not for me ). 

Edited June 14, 2016 by unreasonable

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

In Moscow in particular, Soviet fighters were flying all kinds of missions non-stop. There weren't enough planes so fighters had to do ground attack just as often, including the PVO (air defence) units. With that in mind, possibly escort missions were less likely since they were spread out thin. You could make the percentage 40% intercept, 40% ground attack and 20% escort.

 

Over Stalingrad things improved slightly, so I would say 30% intercept, 35% ground support, 20% escort and 15% ground attack in summer/autumn, and 30:30:30:10 during winter.

 

About converting to different aircraft, that depended on the situation. In Moscow many regiments still had mixed contingents of MiG-3s and I-16s even into 1942. While those were usually distributed within different squadrons in the unit, shortage of aircraft sometimes meant pilots flying the MiG-3 would take up an I-16 due to the situation, particularly for ground attack missions.

 

Also, at times regiments would receive new aircraft directly at the front and had no training or preparation time in them. Taking 55 IAP/16 GIAP as an example: in early 1941, they flew I-16 and I-153. In spring 1941, two out of four (IIRC) squadrons received MiG-3 and started conversion training. In autumn 1941, received around 8 Il-2s on the field which were used for ground attack by pilots who volunteered to without any prior training, while the I-153s were lost/scrapped. In the beginning of 1942, one squadron received Yak-1s on the field, left behind by a neighbouring regiment which was receiving new ones. Yak-1s were used together with the MiG-3s and I-16s. Nothing is known of the Il-2s by then but most were eventually lost/scrapped. In the summer of 1942, another squadron received Yak-1s. Pilots would receive the aircraft and get flying them right off the bat with no training. In the autumn of 1942, most MiG-3s were in need of repairs and the regiment only had 8 Yak-1s to its name, so the MiGs were flown over the Caucasus to a workshop. They never returned to the regiment. In late autumn, the regiment was recalled for refitting and left its remaining aircraft with Dzusov's 45 IAP, who shortly afterwards was also sent for refitting. The regiment returned to the front in March 1943 after proper conversion training to the P-39. It flew the Airacobra exclusively until 1944, when S. Lavochkin sent some of the first La-7s to the unit, also on the field. Training was made on spare time between missions, but the conversion was halted after a pneumatic failure resulted in the death one of the regiment's best pilots, A. Klubov.

 

Basically, regiments would be refit if time allowed. During major retreats or offensives, most of the stuff would be done in the field so feel free to change around from LaGG-3 to La-5 between chapters, while MiG-3s and I-16s were interchangeable through most of it.

[LLv24_Zami]

Interesting news about the campaign in tge questions thread!

 

Han stated that they are planning global changes to the campaign and the experience system is planned to change too.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I'm curious to see what they come up with

[seafireliv]

In Moscow in particular, Soviet fighters were flying all kinds of missions non-stop. There weren't enough planes so fighters had to do ground attack just as often, including the PVO (air defence) units. With that in mind, possibly escort missions were less likely since they were spread out thin. You could make the percentage 40% intercept, 40% ground attack and 20% escort.

 

Over Stalingrad things improved slightly, so I would say 30% intercept, 35% ground support, 20% escort and 15% ground attack in summer/autumn, and 30:30:30:10 during winter.

 

About converting to different aircraft, that depended on the situation. In Moscow many regiments still had mixed contingents of MiG-3s and I-16s even into 1942. While those were usually distributed within different squadrons in the unit, shortage of aircraft sometimes meant pilots flying the MiG-3 would take up an I-16 due to the situation, particularly for ground attack missions.

 

Also, at times regiments would receive new aircraft directly at the front and had no training or preparation time in them. Taking 55 IAP/16 GIAP as an example: in early 1941, they flew I-16 and I-153. In spring 1941, two out of four (IIRC) squadrons received MiG-3 and started conversion training. In autumn 1941, received around 8 Il-2s on the field which were used for ground attack by pilots who volunteered to without any prior training, while the I-153s were lost/scrapped. In the beginning of 1942, one squadron received Yak-1s on the field, left behind by a neighbouring regiment which was receiving new ones. Yak-1s were used together with the MiG-3s and I-16s. Nothing is known of the Il-2s by then but most were eventually lost/scrapped. In the summer of 1942, another squadron received Yak-1s. Pilots would receive the aircraft and get flying them right off the bat with no training. In the autumn of 1942, most MiG-3s were in need of repairs and the regiment only had 8 Yak-1s to its name, so the MiGs were flown over the Caucasus to a workshop. They never returned to the regiment. In late autumn, the regiment was recalled for refitting and left its remaining aircraft with Dzusov's 45 IAP, who shortly afterwards was also sent for refitting. The regiment returned to the front in March 1943 after proper conversion training to the P-39. It flew the Airacobra exclusively until 1944, when S. Lavochkin sent some of the first La-7s to the unit, also on the field. Training was made on spare time between missions, but the conversion was halted after a pneumatic failure resulted in the death one of the regiment's best pilots, A. Klubov.

 

Basically, regiments would be refit if time allowed. During major retreats or offensives, most of the stuff would be done in the field so feel free to change around from LaGG-3 to La-5 between chapters, while MiG-3s and I-16s were interchangeable through most of it.

 

Changing aircraft types - not likely at all unless your unit was being re-equipped, in which you would be out of the front line for a few days (usually) or the rare cases where LW units had temporarily mixed versions of 109s.  Better just to stick to one type for the duration.

 

Mission types - the most common type of fighter mission - a simple CAP or sweep - is missing altogether. Neither side had the radar density or comms structures to make the kind of intercept we get in BoS/BoM likely. 

What would be more likely is a scramble to intercept bombers heading towards a target very close to your own base, or a CAP over a fixed target that might or not lead to contact, or a sweep in an area that again might or might not lead to contact. (Ie like the vastly superior RoF Career mode).

 

As for ground attack in LW fighters: squadrons tended to be dedicated to ground attack. In early 1941,(or late 1940? cannot remember )  for example, one staffel in every 109 gruppe was equipped with bomb racks and expected to perform the jabo role. (Absurd waste of effort btw, for a force short of fighters). Those that were jabo equipped would do it almost exclusively, and those that were not would not do it at all, except perhaps to strafe opportunistically, especially if they were tasked to escort a unit that was doing ground attack. This distinction might well have broken down late in the both battles when gruppes with an establishment of 40 were down to their last few operational planes doing whatever the situation demanded, so you have to use your imagination here. 

 

Soviet doctrine may have been more flexible.

 

I have tried the dice roll and log book approach to improve the stock campaign experience; interested to see if you can make it work for you. (It did not for me ). 

 

 

Thankyou both very much.