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19.GvIAP Forming up


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GrendelsDad
Posted

I think P3Z is sponsored by target department stores, so a big red bulls-eye would be appropriate. :pilot:

  • Upvote 2
Posted

Might I suggest a skin that has a high contrast to the terrain and something with a very high sheen.....

 

 

I think P3Z is sponsored by target department stores, so a big red bulls-eye would be appropriate. :pilot:

 

Yes, I will distract all of you with my ultra-bright, high contrasted, big red bulls-eye while my flight sneaks behind you.

 

Of course, after the ass-handing Hund gave me at SNBF last week, you would think that I already have that large bulls-eye painted on my AC. 

  • Upvote 1
707shap_Srbin
Posted

No worries, all I have to do is turn off the 81 layer and then turn on the 71 layer. Panzerbar might be the one to ask. My knowledge of VVS tactical markings is very limited.

Sorry to tell, but this are not historical skins for 145iap, but semi-historical. I showed photos and color profiles. There were blank AMT-4 Green on uppers, without stars on tail and fuselage, only on underwings.

 

There were no flight leader markings. 

 

Unit emblems were extremly rare, whole during a war.

Also, unly fiew Guards regiments wore red nose painting. And only in late war period (late 43 > 45). As well as I researched, 19giap never got red noses on P-39's.

Posted

Thank you for the precision Panzerbar !

Posted

It's a good thing this is a game because I would be depressed if we had to stick to historical only.  I have no problem with historical in SNBF, FNBF, and even InWar, however I do like the skins rekt has made for us for pubbing and TAW.

 

Still, I appreciate your thoroughness on this subject Panzerbar, I just can't believe the VVS didn't even want to signify flight leads.  Honestly, until the P-39 gets in this game, it looks like our attempts to be 100% historically accurate will be limited.

 

I picked a shitty unit to emulate :(

216th_Lucas_From_Hell
Posted

It's a great unit to emulate, p3zzers. Just wait until we get our Kobrik, then you can go out and about in those very nice looking paint schemes.

 

About the flight leaders, I agree with their reasoning, and many Soviet experienced pilots did so too. Think about it - if you are a pair and come into a flight of four enemies. It's not clear who's the leader, until you see this one sorry chap sporting a big fat red nose with a golden arrow on the side or something obnoxious like that. What do you do? Send your wingman to cover you and dart to kill that guy, of course! Once you've killed their leader the enemy flight will be demoralised and is likely to disengage. If they stay, you can then shoot down the inexperienced first then catch the experienced pilots left without wingmen.

 

For example, Pokryshkin reasoned up until the end of the war that flashy aircraft only made good targets.

SOLIDKREATE
Posted (edited)

Sorry to tell, but this are not historical skins for 145iap, but semi-historical. I showed photos and color profiles. There were blank AMT-4 Green on uppers, without stars on tail and fuselage, only on underwings.

 

There were no flight leader markings. 

 

Unit emblems were extremly rare, whole during a war.

Also, unly fiew Guards regiments wore red nose painting. And only in late war period (late 43 > 45). As well as I researched, 19giap never got red noses on P-39's.

 

 

So no tri-color camo or flight leader markings. They were all green even in late 1942? Okay buddy thanks! I'll fix them.

Edited by 6./ZG1=SPEKTRE76
Posted

So no tri-color camo or flight leader markings. They were all green even in late 1942? Okay buddy thanks! I'll fix them.

I really hope that they at least white washed their aircraft in winter. I would not be too happy taking off on a green aircraft in a white world.

 

I guess the reasoning is good about flight lead Lucas. I'm just a spoiled westerner from a culture that is used to making equipment "your own" to a degree.

  • Upvote 1
707shap_Srbin
Posted

So no tri-color camo or flight leader markings. They were all green even in late 1942? Okay buddy thanks! I'll fix them.

 

145iap had no LaGGs in late 1942. 145iap had very first ever built LaGG-3's series 1, wich were camouflated in plane AMT-4. In early winter, 145iap got another 15 LaGG-3's series 4, with standard factory  black/green camouflage. It was partially covered with white winter color.

And tri-color was never used by USSR :) It was a simbol of Russian Empire.

  • Upvote 1
707shap_Srbin
Posted

I guess the reasoning is good about flight lead Lucas. I'm just a spoiled westerner from a culture that is used to making equipment "your own" to a degree.

 

Lukas is 100% right. Luftwaffe used same practice in later stages of war. After they used white rudders/tailfins in Reich Defence to mark flight leaders, they realised a real hunt for such marked aircrafts by USAAF fighters. Almost all emblems disappeared then, and even Geschwaderkommodore used just numbers instead of chevrons (Priller, Bar, Dahl and many more). And vice-versa, Allied and Soviet aircrafts were more personalised and colorfull closer to the end of war.

 

For 1941 and 42, in almost each regiment, there were more pilots then aircrafts usually due to losses, and each aircraft was used by many different pilots, so it is hard to "personalise" them. As pilot of 145iap Gaidayenko mentioned, he saw how Mironenko lied how he shot down aircraft in combat. Mironenko was flying Galchenko's aircraft, with "cat".

216th_Lucas_From_Hell
Posted (edited)

I'm just a spoiled westerner from a culture that is used to making equipment "your own" to a degree.

 

No biggie, it occurred to some degree, but it was different from the standard American 'slap some nose art and you're good to go' kind of thing.  :biggrin: As Panzerbar said, most pilots shared their aircraft with at least one pilot due to equipment shortages in 1941-1942 so personal writings were rare.

 

Slogans however were very common compared to individual stuff, together with specific unit markings. Some notable examples: Safonov's I-16 ('For Stalin!'), Kleshchëv's Yak-7 ('Death for death!'), the MiG-3s of 148 IAP ('For Stalin!' and 'For the Motherland!'), the Il-2s of 800 ShAP (arrow), donated aircraft for 996 ShAP ('Yaroslavsk Komsomol').

Edited by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell
  • Upvote 1
Posted

If I recall correctly, most of the slogans were applied at the factories by workers, so those aren't even the pilots personal sentiments :(

216th_Lucas_From_Hell
Posted

Don't concern yourself with it - a lot of inscriptions were done on the field, not only on aircraft but on tanks, trucks and whatever could receive a fresh layer of whatever paint they had lying around. It's hard to explain it these days, but the feeling of the peoples which comprised the Soviet Union was rather universal, and pilots were no exception. Most of the stuff painted on the factory was done on the worker's own initiative, safe for cases like aircraft made with money donated by a particular group of people, which then bore that particular inscription.

707shap_Srbin
Posted

Not all the way. There were actually two main kind of slogans.

 

1. Personal slogans. They may be of political ("For Stalin!" , "Death to fascists!" e.t.c.) or personal, in memory of fallen camerads (" Za Vas'ka i Zhoru", "Za Vanyu Babaka" and so on), or just as Gaidayenko (19giap) had on his P-39 (Красотулечка = Beauty).

 

2. Factory slogans on aircraft or even whole squadrons, wich were granted to the front by some civil peoples. Examples.

  • Upvote 1
SOLIDKREATE
Posted (edited)

Okay gents, I trust Panzerbar's input and he is actually Russian so he would know best. I need to re-do the skins. I'll make them the standard AMT-4, AMT-6. AMT-7 camo as the late 15 LaGG's that came in. I am so sorry for all the changes but I want to get things right. I need to find that site that showed the actual paint pattern of the LaGG. Don't worry they all won't be 'exactly' alike. There will be some variances such as width of the stripes (slight difference). Then I'll make the rest of the Summer LaGG's in AMT-4. You will have the white spinner and the silver prop or a black one with the white stripe in the middle as seen in some photos. I even have the prop part coding already made too.

Edited by 6./ZG1=SPEKTRE76
Posted

Ok, I applied on your website. Get me into the Sky!

  • Upvote 1
Posted

Welcome aboard Ares !

Posted

Looks great guys!

216th_Lucas_From_Hell
Posted

Spektre, the file only has 71-75-77-78, is that correct?

SOLIDKREATE
Posted

Link is fixed.

216th_Lucas_From_Hell
Posted

Great skins, Spekre and Rekt. This is one stylish regiment, for sure :biggrin:

Posted

Great skins, Spekre and Rekt. This is one stylish regiment, for sure :biggrin:

Yes we are :)

 

Couldn't have happened without all the help from spektre, panzerbar, and rekt. Thanks guys!

  • Upvote 1
curiousGamblerr
Posted

Do I see a red star on the LaGG spinner?! Awesome!

Posted

Guys the squad is growing fast. We are now 9 members inside the 19th GIAP. We will open soon the ground attacker and bomber wings inside the squad as the 258th . Thank you to all for your participation.

707shap_Srbin
Posted

258 sad? Nice choise! It then became 1 giad.

 

Consisted:

19 giap

20 giap (sister regiment)

17 gshap (ex- 65 shap) with Il-2

668 shap with Il-2

114 gbap (ex- 137 bap) with Pe-2

  • Upvote 1
Posted

Thank you for the precious information Panzerbar !

SOLIDKREATE
Posted (edited)

I'll get cracking!

 

 

 

 

17th Gv.ShAP

 

post-12904-0-80010100-1466479212_thumb.jpg

Edited by 6./ZG1=SPEKTRE76
Posted

Yes curious will have command of the 17th Gv.ShAP when it starts forming up.

curiousGamblerr
Posted

Yes curious will have command of the 17th Gv.ShAP when it starts forming up.

 

Wooooooo! I'm down. An Il-2 specific squad sounds like fun.

SOLIDKREATE
Posted

Mc_Hammer_14206.jpg

  • Upvote 2
Posted

Gents,

My first visit to this forum thread.  Great to see your squad coming together so nicely, guys.  May the strong growth continue!

 

P3zman, check out this link for some great stories, from all branches of Soviet service in those days.  I believe it will at least begin to give you a much better "feel" for the culture/mindset of the people and the times.  I used to read it every day at lunch back when I found it a couple of years ago.  The stories have a broad range of flavor and characteristics as you'd see in any grouping of personal accounts, and nearly all are fascinating to read.  They added more to my appreciation of the Eastern Front, and my enthusiasm to learn more about it, than anything else I have found so far including videos like "The Forgotten War."  Naturally, what I've learned has also greatly increased my enthusiasm for sim flying in that theater!  I truly believe that anyone as unfamiliar with the Eastern Front as I was should dive into this site for a while.

Posted

Gents,

My first visit to this forum thread. Great to see your squad coming together so nicely, guys. May the strong growth continue!

 

P3zman, check out this link for some great stories, from all branches of Soviet service in those days. I believe it will at least begin to give you a much better "feel" for the culture/mindset of the people and the times. I used to read it every day at lunch back when I found it a couple of years ago. The stories have a broad range of flavor and characteristics as you'd see in any grouping of personal accounts, and nearly all are fascinating to read. They added more to my appreciation of the Eastern Front, and my enthusiasm to learn more about it, than anything else I have found so far including videos like "The Forgotten War." Naturally, what I've learned has also greatly increased my enthusiasm for sim flying in that theater! I truly believe that anyone as unfamiliar with the Eastern Front as I was should dive into this site for a while.

Started reading some of these stories. Riveting. The more I read the more I learn that humans, while each unique and an individual, are all similar. Thanks for the link, nothing like context to history to expand your view.

Posted (edited)

Just imagine if our country had been the one invaded... what if the gulf states from Louisiana eastward had been overrun, and the eastern seaboard too, all the way up through the southern half of Virginia, where we were backed up and defending D.C., plus a front over 700 miles long stretching southwest from there.  What if the fight cost us roughly 10% of our population?

I know it's a rough gouge, but that's the 'flavor' of what had happened to Russia by May of 1945.

 

Edit:  Sorry to 'hijack' the thread here... glad you're enjoying the stories!

Edited by =FI=Blue2
  • 1 month later...
707shap_Srbin
Posted

1st Guards Mixd Air Division (258th name of Svir' Mixed Air Division):

-19giap

-20giap

-152iap

-17gshap

-114gbap

 

History of 17gshap You can find here and here. In russian, but You may use some translators.

curiousGamblerr
Posted

Thanks Panzerbar!

707shap_Srbin
Posted (edited)

Interveiw with reargunner of 17gshap, A. Arbuzov.

http://iremember.ru/memoirs/letchiki-shturmoviki/arbuzov-aleksey-evgenevich/

 

Interveiw with groundmechanic of 17 gshap, E. Pesterov

http://iremember.ru/memoirs/letchiki-shturmoviki/pesterov-evgeniy-pavlovich/

 

i_022.jpg

1.7.1944. Crew of Il-2 from 17gshap. Guards Leitenant V.N.Parfenoc and Guards Sergeant E.P.Pesterov.

Edited by I./ZG1_Panzerbar
Posted

Thanks panzer, I appreciate it.

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