What do you guys believe...

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I was thinking about that too but our Yak-1 is already very close to the bubble top Yak-1, while the Yak-9 is from the Yak-7 family which would bring variety.

 

Either would be great because then the French pilots would get the rides of the Normandie squadron, even if they weren't over Kuban

Edited June 3, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

A map showing operations into Autumn:

 

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Next theatre will be Endor forest moon with X-wings and Tie fighters of course.

Hopefully Kuban or Kursk but nobody knows exept the devs.

Oh and stop hurting yourself with unrealistic stuff like the Pacific or Mediterranean theaters it will not happen, at least not before many years, the good news is Team Fusion is preparing a Mediterranean map for patch 5.0 (Cliffs of Dover mod) but nobody knows if it will come this year due to some setbacks they couldn't reach their original target (this summer).

Edited June 3, 2016 by 4./JG52_Hauggy_

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Me410 was never on eastern front.

Me 210 was albeit operated by the Hungarien airforce. The Luftwaffe only briefly operated a handfull of 210s until the production was cancled and the few left examples were sold to allied countries while development on the 410 was continued.

 

@ Lucas the G-6 is easy to distinguish from the other 109s by the bulges on the cowling.

 

And to make Asgar happier, here's the last 410 with it's 2 running DB603s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAcgUPjb16Q

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Me-410 would suck hard imo it was a worse failure than the BF-110 (exept for the nightfighter version).

Edited June 3, 2016 by 4./JG52_Hauggy_

[Asgar]

did i mention that i would like to see the Me 410 in the game?

 

and btw. that 410 in the video has a ZG26 emblem. any more evidence needed that we need to have it in game?

 

edit: lol Hauggy...you actually think the Bf 110 is a failure? stop watching Discovery Channel documentaries 

Edited June 3, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

That's actually not true. The Me-410 was quite a formidable aircraft unlike it's predecessor, the Me-210 (later had a different wing and was known for being very unfogiving in the air + it had less capable engines). The Me-410 was unfortunate to suffer from both the image of Me-210 as well as the war situation in late 1943 which called for an increase in single engined fighter production in favour of other projects.

 

It also never reached it's goal as a multirole fighter/bomber to replace the Bf-110, but it was operated in limited numbers with sucess regardless.

Edited June 3, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[=FEW=Hauggy]

did i mention that i would like to see the Me 410 in the game?

 

and btw. that 410 in the video has a ZG26 emblem. any more evidence needed that we need to have it in game?

 

edit: lol Hauggy...you actually think the Bf 110 is a failure? stop watching Discovery Channel documentaries 

Well it was indeed a failure as a fighter plane as it required escort, but it wasn't as a nightfighter or ground attack plane it's all relative

That's actually not true. The Me-410 was quite a formidable aircraft unlike it's predecessor, the Me-210 (later had a different wing and was known for being very unfogiving in the air + it had less capable engines). The Me-410 was unfortunate to suffer from both the image of Me-210 as well as the war situation in late 1943 which called for an increase in single engined fighter production in favour of other projects.

 

It also never reached it's goal as a multirole fighter/bomber to replace the Bf-110, but it was operated in limited numbers with sucess regardless.

True I was actually thinking about the Me-210 my bad.

Edited June 3, 2016 by 4./JG52_Hauggy_

[Asgar]

It really didn't if you look at the early stage of the battle of britain before the 110 were ordered to fly "close escort" in formation with the bombers they were actually quite effective due to there speed. even though they weren't the most maneuverable planes.

it also accelerated in it's Zerstörer role on the eastern front

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Well yes it was indeed quite decent against the Hurricane but I don't think they were very effective against spitfires regarless of the altitude they flew at.

The heavy losses they sustained during the battle of Britain was surely partly caused by that example of bad leadership.

I do know that they were decent again inferior planes such as the I-16 (I did watched some of the Deutsche Wochenschau and I remember one showing some of their successes against the poorly trained I-16 and I-153 pilots).

Edited June 3, 2016 by 4./JG52_Hauggy_

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

@ Lucas the G-6 is easy to distinguish from the other 109s by the bulges on the cowling.

 

I usually remember that, but for some reason my mind tricked me into thinking that only the later versions had it. Those 13mm guns are a hassle to deal with.

[=FEW=Hauggy]

[flash=]

Here I found the part where you see the 110s in air combat, but I forgot which one it was.

Anyway it was probably deleted from Youtube.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I'd really like to see Po-2's and Hs123's somewhere in the mix.

 

Both are simple, outdated machines which are very iconic in their own rights. 

 

Of course Hs129's would be a unique and welcomed addition but I hope the Ju87 G's aren't left out of the mix given their scope of operations.

 

Flying the sim with upgunned and upengined 109's and Yak's/La's/LaGG's would be cool of course (and they should certainly come at some point) but it lacks diversity - an expanded planeset with a broader scope of combat roles would be the most entertaining for me - more variance in the mudmovers, expanded loadouts for all of the bombers and fighters, reconnaissance aircraft, transport aircraft, etc.

 

Circlejerkin' over who can be the best flying ace stays fun for only so long - having a multitude of roles and opportunities keeps things fresh.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Space_Ghost

[Asgar]

ehm...we already have the G-1

[Voidhunger]

From which point on could the G-6 carry the 30mm gun?

30mm gun was field tested in the summer 1943.

And we have 37mm cannon on early stuka, so bf 109g6 will probably have 30mm gun

Edited June 3, 2016 by Voidhunger

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

From 1942 onwards Il-2s were used for artillery correction, not sure about the German side. You could replace the Dornier with the Rama in theory, I suppose. But the Dornier could do recce too.

 

Photo recce was done by whatever you could mount a camera on, but Pe-2/3s were used often for that. Armed recce with regular combat aircraft was more common.

 

My point is, it's possible to implement the features for these new mission types while also providing multi-role aircraft. I would love a U-2 though.

[Livai]

You could replace the Dornier with the Rama in theory

Mission accomplished: "Dornier replaced with the Rama". Today I had a Dornier for Breakfast? Taste good

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

Kuban is too important in history of VVS to by left behind. It is where Soviets passed graduation exam.

But we are not VVS. We are customers, each has different opinions and desires.

 

 

 

Making Yak-1b/Yak-9 and La-5F should be less time consuming then making brand new aircrafts from scratch.

 

I don't want to spend again 80 $ for "easy and less time consuming aircraft". After 4 years of development of tools and skills crew should be efficient enough to produce even a complicated constructions. Problem can be amount of data on them, but if they could build Mc.202 so quickly then everything is doable.

 

 

 

Even less work for LW side making Gustav 4 and Fw-190A5.

Again, why would many people spend again such money on aircraft so closely resembling the ones we have already ?

 

 

 

Il-2 - a video from 7 GShAP (7th Guards Attack Aviation Regiment) over the Black Sea in 1943

That would be a third time people would be paying for almost the same aircraft. 

[Asgar]

with your logic the F-4 should be the only 109 in game because everyone that came after looks similar 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Hiromachi, it makes sense for the sake of story-telling, and because all supporting elements are in place. Ground units, radio chatter and all that are fit for Soviet/German operations. That saves money and time.

 

Also, you could follow a whole career from Moscow to Novorossiysk, for example. Start as flight leader in 120 IAP with the MiG-3, transfer to 434 IAP flying the Yak-1 over Stalingrad as squadron leader, then reach deputy regiment commander at 16 GIAP in Kuban.

 

Once the user-created static campaign format is added that means endless possibilities stretching over three years. I still replay the old Il-2's default campaigns (Fighter, Bomber, Burning Ridge, Pe-2 - Navy Bomber and the likes) because they have continuity to them.

 

For people who are interested in these scenarios, those variants are not redundant but essential. The La-5F for example is faster than the La-5 we have here but also more manoeuvrable in both horizontal and vertical planes, it's a whole different aircraft and it handles like it. Saying it's all the same is like saying the Ki-27 and Ki-43 are redundant because they are from the same family.

 

EDIT: also, as the old Il-2 shows the P-39/La-5/Bf-109/Fw-190/Il-2 families are immensely popular, and were the overall favourites of most players there and today. There will be people paying their last penny for access to them, because they are loved.

Edited June 3, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I wasn't a big fan of G-2 / F-4 to be honest, but as it was first game couldnt really complain. Besides, I was waiting more for LaGG-3 and La-5. In this case BoM was a lot more appealing since E-7 and F-2 are very different with changes in airfoil, armament, engine and tons of other stuff. 

But there was that kind of discussion on Ru forums and someone mentioned G-4, reply from a dev was that people might find it hard to pay again for something so similar. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The Bf-109G-4 is if I remember well a Bf-109G-2 with a new radio, which is why the reply

[=FEW=Hauggy]

I'm all in for an Hs-129 ^^

Sounds much better than Me-410 to me but I have to say that the perspective of having two 13mm orientable Mgs in the back would be quite interesting.

Edited June 3, 2016 by 4./JG52_Hauggy_

[TheBlackPenguin]

Next theatre will be Endor forest moon with X-wings and Tie fighters of course.

Hopefully Kuban or Kursk but nobody knows exept the devs.

Oh and stop hurting yourself with unrealistic stuff like the Pacific or Mediterranean theaters it will not happen, at least not before many years, the good news is Team Fusion is preparing a Mediterranean map for patch 5.0 (Cliffs of Dover mod) but nobody knows if it will come this year due to some setbacks they couldn't reach their original target (this summer).

 

No point saying what will or not happen, only the devs will know and that is after some discussions. Should they be influenced by Team Fusion? Only when it comes to BoB imho, not the Med.

 

Anyway, I would be surprised if we see the Med or Pacific as the next installment as I would put more bets on Kursk or Kuban. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if we see these as the next two installments, but at this stage we just don't know.

[Saurer]

The Bf-109G-4 is if I remember well a Bf-109G-2 with a new radio, which is why the reply

 

and 1.42 ata so more power than the G-2 we have now

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Wasn't that a DB-imposed recommendation lifted in July 1943, affecting all aircraft with that engine?

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

Hiromachi, it makes sense for the sake of story-telling, and because all supporting elements are in place. Ground units, radio chatter and all that are fit for Soviet/German operations. That saves money and time.

I dont buy that argument. If we would follow it, then by principle we should never leave eastern front due to fact that any move outside will increase the costs and will require new assets. Oleg wasn't scared to do such things and he flipped the whole sim industry, despite great flaws existing in his products.

 

 

 

Also, you could follow a whole career from Moscow to Novorossiysk, for example. Start as flight leader in 120 IAP with the MiG-3, transfer to 434 IAP flying the Yak-1 over Stalingrad as squadron leader, then reach deputy regiment commander at 16 GIAP in Kuban.

I did. In books, I've read a bit on this stuff. But this doesnt work due to fact that campaign is generic. One can do so with PWCG, but thats a different story.

 

 

 

Once the user-created static campaign format is added that means endless possibilities stretching over three years.

 

Nothing would stop devs from giving such tools to playerbase while developing Sicily or New Guinea. I'm all for custom content, I personally hoped for a long time to see tools for map creating and some simple 3d objects like trucks or buildings. 

 

 

 

For people who are interested in these scenarios, those variants are not redundant but essential.

For people who are interested. How many random western guys are interested or even aware of Kuban ? First thing they see when opening the main website project details (BoM for instance) is map details and planeset. And they look and find ... "oh, but I already have Il-2 1941 and BoS Il-2". 

 

 

 

The La-5F for example is faster than the La-5 we have here but also more manoeuvrable in both horizontal and vertical planes, it's a whole different aircraft and it handles like it.

No trickery here, could you be so kind Lucas and point me all the changes incorporated into airframe ? 

I'd assume that maneuverability simply comes from increased power ratings. More energy to say so. 

 

 

 

Saying it's all the same is like saying the Ki-27 and Ki-43 are redundant because they are from the same family.

Not quite. Only common things between the two are: Manufacturer, airfoil type (Nakajima NN-2) and armament in form of twin Type 89 machine guns (Ki-27) and single (in some Ki-43). The point could be ki-43 Model I and Model II. But even those included major changes in wing shape, power unit, airframe strengthening, armament and protection changes. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

No need to go to the extremes for it - it is still factual that it's more convenient, faster and cost-effective to use things you have to create something fresh and new, but of course you move one eventually. Oleg left the Soviet theatre after he had included Smolensk, Moscow, Stalingrad, Kuban, Kursk, Crimea, Kiev, Lvov, Hungary, Gulf of Finland, Berlin and more, and with all the aircraft we're talking about here included. The original Il-2 and Forgotten Battles fleshed out the Eastern Front nearly entirely, safe for the flyable Pe-2 which weirdly came last. The original campaign in the first Il-2 already went Smolensk-Moscow-Stalingrad-Kuban-Kursk-Crimea-Berlin, whereas we only have Moscow and Stalingrad here. He had the ease of moving away so soon because he'd done his job right, while here we have an Eastern Front that can close the initial period but needs a 1943 expansion to do so.

 

I already get a kick of the campaign as is, and I'm not overly imaginative. When I fly MiG-3s I fly them from Kubinka for example, I-16s from Nesterovo, Pe-2s from Klin and so on, and I keep airbases regular. When I have more time at hand I log my missions on a notebook, and that works well. Preference, of course. A user-created campaign would string those up for those who need a bit of hand-holding to get the immersion.

 

Down in Brazil where people know nearly nothing of the Eastern Front battles I've even had a friend steal my old Il-2 CD because he wanted to play it so badly because of the Il-2 and all the stuff that came in there. While this product comes with 8-10 aircraft most people buy them for things they are passionate about. The chief reason for my BoM purchase was a) Moscow and b) the MiG-3, for example.

 

Changes from the La-5 to the La-5F, from memory, include: new engine making boost power nominal and unlimited, redesigned cockpit area for better visibility overall, completely redesign wings with more efficient ailerons, removing two of the five tanks to reduce weight and improve roll performance, and aerodynamic which I can't find specifics of. The results at sea level were a 50 km/h improvement in top speed, gaining 20 km/h at 6300m. The M-82F produced 1700 hp like the M-82, but it could do so for longer without overheating.

 

EDIT: Also, each cannon had 200 rounds instead of 220. This was further reduced to 170 in the La-5FN, but the latter in particular had further aerodynamic refinements based on TsAGI recommendations, and only reached widespread use early in 1944.

Edited June 3, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[Sokol1]

Kursk sounds like a very plausible outcome then :-)

 

Kursk, a short battle - 11 days -  over a boring landscape, will be "more of the same", and to be plausible need big tanks engagements. In Il-2:46 Kursk scenerys are not plausible, and objects count are higher.

 

Kuban, nice landscape, sea, more diversity on planes ( some "allied), allow torpedo planes. Better game experience, BTW - as in IL-2 "2001".

[wtornado]

Time and money coming in will tell how well the devs will do.

 

I am pretty sure what they will be delivering is already started

no matter what people want.

[707shap_Srbin]

Kursk, a short battle - 11 days -  over a boring landscape, will be "more of the same", and to be plausible need big tanks engagements. In Il-2:46 Kursk scenerys are not plausible, and objects count are higher.

 

 

 

Well, I must have a problems with counting, but from 5th July to 27 august is a bit more than 11 days Adding static frontline from april 1943, with largescale airfights over during late may and early june - famous airfield strikes - I would not consider them boring.

 

But I like MTO '43 much more. Sicily '43 is same airframe - early may to late august. But have mountains (and even Volcano), forests, ancient Greec sities, sea, sea, water, seashore....

And Bf110G-2

[CIA_Yankee_]

I'd personally love to see Kuban, with the Spit Vb as the premium VVS fighter (and the 'cobra as one of the main ones... mostly because at that point the P-39 wasn't exactly a rare or "niche" fighter... it was one of the main VVS fighter of the war, after all). I've pre-order in a heartbeat.

 

One thing I'd be interested in seeing is if friendly fire will prove to be as common as it historically was. While for BoB veterans this phenomenon seems unusual, I think some features of the Spit properly makes it blue-on-blue fodder on the eastern front. How many VVS fighters had underwing radiators, for example? I wouldn't be surprised if these were used as one of the ways to positively identify a 109... with tragic consequences once the Spitfire was introduced.

 

Either way, I'm definitely looking forward to the next announcement.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

A major problem with the Spitfire was the skinny and long tail, which was a marker of German aircraft and one that I use first and foremost to identify between a Soviet and German aircraft. Both the Fw-190 and Bf-109 have a slender fuselage that grows thinner and thinner from the wings to the tailpiece, whereas the Yakovlev and Lavochkin fighters have a long but thick fuselage, the MiG-3 and I-16 are both very stubby, as is the P-40E (though not as much).

 

Look at this photo for example - though there are very distinct features to the Spitfire and Bf-109, to the untrained eye or from a distance they present a somewhat similar frame.

 

 

Compare the profiles of the Spitfire to the other major Soviet types in the area and you'll see why it happened:

 

 

 

 

[707shap_Srbin]

Me-410 would suck hard imo it was a worse failure than the BF-110 (exept for the nightfighter version).

Me410A was better heavy-bombers interceptor, then Bf110G-2. Me410 crews shot down more bombers, and lost less aircrafts. 

 

Me 210 was albeit operated by the Hungarien airforce. The Luftwaffe only briefly operated a handfull of 210s until the production was cancled and the few left examples were sold to allied countries while development on the 410 was continued.

 

Hungarian airforse used Me210Ca, wich in fact was Me410 airframe with DB605A engine. More to say - of 272 Me210Ca-1 built in Hungary, 114 was used by Luftwaffe units and 158 by MHKL units.

 

Me210 production run was not cancelled, but evolved in Me410 production (many of wich had Me210 airframes).

 

Well it was indeed a failure as a fighter plane as it required escort, but it wasn't as a nightfighter or ground attack plane it's all relative

 

Bf110 in Zerstorer variant (i.e. without bombs) NEVER required escort. Only Erpr.Gr.210 Bf110's - fighter bombers - flew with escort. After JG52 treated cowardly runned from combat on 15.08.40, when Stab./E.Gr.210 lost 3 crews of 4 - Gruppe preferred to fly under ZG escort (i.e. Bf110 flew to escort for Bf110).

 

More to say - Bf110 Kill/Death ratio (claims vs losses) was better then Bf109 during Battle of Britain. 

[unlikely_spider]

Next theatre will be Endor forest moon with X-wings and Tie fighters of course.

.

Hey, with this engine? That would be awesome!

Though we could realistically expect it to follow with endless discussions about how the devs screwed up the flight model of the TIE Interceptors (available as a premium purchase only), complete with many graphs of test performance charts from Empire archives that were obtained by the rebels before the Death Star was destroyed.

[707shap_Srbin]

A major problem with the Spitfire was the skinny and long tail, which was a marker of German aircraft and one that I use first and foremost to identify between a Soviet and German aircraft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bf109 had water radiators under wings, and Spit had it also underwings. So, from 6'oclock, both looks simular. Soviet fighters had usually water radiators under fuselage.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Hungarian airforse used Me210Ca, wich in fact was Me410 airframe with DB605A engine. More to say - of 272 Me210Ca-1 built in Hungary, 114 was used by Luftwaffe units and 158 by MHKL units.

 

Me210 production run was not cancelled, but evolved in Me410 production (many of wich had Me210 airframes).

Interestign, thx for explaining that.

 

Yes, the airframes were mostly the same. The key difference was the wing. If I'm not mistaken the 210 had a laminar flow wing design which caused significant flight problems but I had to look it up (not too well informed about this paritcular aircraft).

[Asgar]

i think the 410 has an elongated tail for more stability. but it's been a while that i read about it

[707shap_Srbin]

i think the 410 has an elongated tail for more stability. but it's been a while that i read about it

Early Me210A had short tail, wich was elongated. All Me210 in action from late summer 1942 had long tail.

 

I./SKG210 - Me210A-1 short tail.

 

 

 

 

 

III./ZG1 - Me210A-1 long tail.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by I./ZG1_Panzerbar

[707shap_Srbin]

[flash=]

Here I found the part where you see the 110s in air combat, but I forgot which one it was.

Anyway it was probably deleted from Youtube.

 

II./ZG1 in action over Novorossijsk, autumn 1942.