What do you guys believe...

[Frequent_Flyer]

The P-40 got 1941 manual limits because it depicts the 1941 version, much like the Bf-109G-2 got the restrictions in place in 1942. I'm pretty positive other aircraft will have slightly more liberal limits, as represented in their manuals in 1943. Either way the P-39 and Spitfire are much more capable than the P-40 in overall performance regardless of engine limits, so that won't be an issue either.

 

Also, their interpretation of the documents will be the same regardless of flying over hills by the Black Sea or fields in Burma.

If you are saying  their interpretation would just as inaccurate for a P-40 flying over the Black Sea or the fields of Burma, I agree. Between the two I vote for the fields of Burma ,everyday all day. Additionally, it is not just the engine that is an issue. However, if you reasoning is as long as the P-39 and Spitfire out perform the P-40 the incorrectly modeled power plant should not be an issue. I disagree.

[Rjel]

I don't think another EF map would be the death of this title, but I do think it would need more than just more variants of the existing planes we already have. Whether it might be more attack A/C or bombers or even more AI planes, it needs to be something that might catch the fancy of someone still sitting on the fence thinking about buying in. A more polished mission builder and SP experience would be a positive too in my mind.

 

If it must be the Eastern front again, I won't necessarily refuse to buy it or not preorder it. I have every version of previous IL-2 releases, I see no reason to stop now just to prove I'd like a different theater to fly in. I'm pretty sure our opinions have been heard. Now it remains to be seen if those opinions mean anything for the next release or one in the future.

[Frequent_Flyer]

I don't think another EF map would be the death of this title, but I do think it would need more than just more variants of the existing planes we already have. Whether it might be more attack A/C or bombers or even more AI planes, it needs to be something that might catch the fancy of someone still sitting on the fence thinking about buying in. A more polished mission builder and SP experience would be a positive too in my mind.

 

If it must be the Eastern front again, I won't necessarily refuse to buy it or not preorder it. I have every version of previous IL-2 releases, I see no reason to stop now just to prove I'd like a different theater to fly in. I'm pretty sure our opinions have been heard. Now it remains to be seen if those opinions mean anything for the next release or one in the future.

Rjel, I agree on both points . Also, another EF map would be a  death knell to those of us, my self included ,who have invested in the first two hoping sooner rather than later the franchise moved to a far more interesting and dynamic theater.

[Gambit21]

I can hardly blame Russians for wanting to re-create Russian battles, I understand that completely.

That's likely what they'll have the most passion for, and that will result in a good product.

 

However I'm also not so silly as to assume that no person of Russian origins can have an interest in other theaters, Pacific included and might want to see that realized.

I do firmly believe, and would bet the farm all day long, that going to the Pacific (and spending a few development cycles there with maps and planes) would result in the highest number of us racing to the pre-order page if it was announced.

That's the best way to keep the foot on the gas with revenue in my humble opinion.

 

There's also little reason in my opinion that once more EF aircraft are created, they can't start offering Maps as add-ons while also working on other theaters and

plane sets. That may not be their current model/intent, but it's the way I'd do it.

It's going to wear a bit thin with us I think turning every map into a full release.

[Pharoah]

If you think the Pacific would get more support, imagine if they did the 'Battle of Europe' ie. the 1943/44 air war over SE England and France. That would bring in countries like France, the UK, US, Aust, South Africa, etc as it would involve the RAF and USAAF. The multitude of missions possible or that were actually flown during that period is astounding...you have stuff like:

 

- bomber escort (heavies, mediums)

- bombing missions (heavies, mediums)

- anti shipping

- fighter sweep

- Rhubarb (low level, bad weather fighter sweeps by up to a flight)

- interdiction

- armed recce

 

The fact that the RAF employed its commonwealth citizens brings into play other countries that took part eg. Canada, Australia, NZ, S Africa, plus a host of smaller nations - yes even Fiji!! there was a Fijian born spitfire pilot who took part).

 

No imagine the potential impact on players who rebuffed BOS/BOM because they weren't interested in the EF but still love the IL2 genre. I mean, who doesn't want to fly a Spitfire IX or P47D or a P51 B (or D)...not to mention say B25s or Beaufighters or Mosquitos.

 

You could even release BoE in stages covering the BoB or BoE or post invasion (which brings into play France and even western Germany along with tanks, trucks, etc).

 

Just saying....

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I'm positive they won't do heavies because of the CPU workload involved. If a twin like the He-111 can slow down a powerful machine, imagine what 50+ Fortresses or Liberators would do!

 

The map would also be colossal, which can (though not necessarily will) pose a problem.

 

If to think of non-Soviet scenarios you need to keep in mind a few things: first, the plane set must not completely outclass the current one, so it needs to be 1941-1943. If a server adds planes from both scenarios, they need to be vaguely compatible, otherwise you end up with a turkey shoot for those who bought the next expansion (think Bf-109F-4 against Spitfire Mk. XVIII - weird, right?). Second, the nature of things needs to be tactical, not strategic. Pacific battles are fine, North Africa is fine, Burma is fine, etc. European bomber offensive is not, due to the distances and aircraft needed. This is mostly because of the practical issues in terms of flight time, personnel resources and user computing power.

 

Hiromachi has suggested some good and viable options for example.

 

I think the complementary version for this simulator would be something set in 1943, with the Wester. Allied aircraft involved because they fit the Soviet air forces ranks nicely, whereas the German set would really beef up the Luftwaffe side as well. Whatever the next main scenario is, I'm sure we'll have a healthy mix of German, Western and Soviet aircraft to go together, which in turn allows mission creators to do their thing and spread things out to different audiences.

 

With the Kuban example, if they thrown in a Tunisia map and a Spitfire, P-39 and A-20 to go with it, one can easily design an Operation Torch campaign. Audio files are easy to modify so the Western community could create its own English voice pack to replace the current one, as was done in the old Il-2 multiple times. And if they do a good job the devs can create the supporting static campaign structure to link those missions, as mentioned by Han some weeks ago.

 

That way I'm happy, you're happy, and everyone is happy

 

Ultimately it's not 'what will sell more' but their own long-term vision for the series which will influence the decision though, so at this point it's anyone's guess.

[BraveSirRobin]

Med 41, 42 or 43 is the most obvious place to go. You get aircraft that can be used on existing EF maps. And you get more Western players.

[Feathered_IV]

I recall Oleg saying in 2005 that the Pacific was quite popular among Russian players, because there were many who enjoyed shooting down the western bourgeoisie but didn't want to fly Fascist aircraft to do so.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Oleg interviews are something I miss, the man is as blunt as one can get

[NN_RugbyGoth]

Med 41, 42 or 43 is the most obvious place to go. You get aircraft that can be used on existing EF maps. And you get more Western players.

Agree, but... team fusion is making this theater right now, the devs here already said that for Battle of britain, we can play CloD... Perhaps they will say the same for Med?

I strongly hope that won't be the case! I want this theatre in Il2 BoX!

 

Also we can put battle of berlin aside as BlackSix just said it wasn't the next theatre!

[No601_Swallow]

Also we can put battle of berlin aside as BlackSix just said it wasn't the next theatre!

 

But I want my Ta183 and my Heinkel Lerche!

 

(And I'm only half joking! Ahem...)

[Aap]

If you think the Pacific would get more support, imagine if they did the 'Battle of Europe' ie. the 1943/44 air war over SE England and France. That would bring in countries like France, the UK, US, Aust, South Africa, etc as it would involve the RAF and USAAF. The multitude of missions possible or that were actually flown during that period is astounding...you have stuff like:

 

No imagine the potential impact on players who rebuffed BOS/BOM because they weren't interested in the EF but still love the IL2 genre. I mean, who doesn't want to fly a Spitfire IX or P47D or a P51 B (or D)...not to mention say B25s or Beaufighters or Mosquitos.

 

Nothing interesting happened over France or England in 1943. In 1944 things became interesting of course, but I don't how interesting it is to fly around in a P47 or a P51 or a Mosquito in a 10:1 advantage in the air, if we are also looking for some kind of realism. When we are moving out of Eastern Front, I hope it will be North Africa or early Pacific, where things were still competitive.

 

And I know I am in minority here, but I would rather see the devs put resources into improving the game itself and adding depth to the content, instead of just setting up a couple of late war planes against a couple of other late war planes.

[Picchio]

If they start rethinking how they design these games based on popularity, we end up with War Thunder.

'Tis destiny, dawg.

Well, I meant that in a positive way. Perhaps there can be better solutions between popularity and bankruptcy.

 

Btw, this could be worth a read: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/23/the-ignorance-of-crowds-why-open-development-is-crap/

Edited June 2, 2016 by Picchio

[Feathered_IV]

If they do choose the MTO we will presumably see some truly epic wailing about "I'm not paying twice for my Luftwaffe ride, $%*# you!" or "Me and my squad not buying Bo-Stalin/Cow for my Macchi and P-40, $%*# you!"  It would be interesting to see if an RoF store solution came about as a result.

 

Edit:

 

PS: I want my flyable Ju-52, $%*# you!!!

 

Edited June 2, 2016 by Feathered_IV

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Feathered, it's a flight sim. Whatever you do, there will be nagging. Remember the good old days of the Banana Forum and Ubi Zoo when everything was about how "Oleg red bias", "Spitfire OP", "the bar!!!1!", "La-5FN too über!", "P-51 best plane laminar flow ftw but Oleg bias it coz no Russian!!!¡!"?

 

People will find reasons to complain even if they design the game themselves

[LLv24_Zami]

If they do choose the MTO we will presumably see plenty of wailing about "I'm not paying twice for my Luftwaffe ride, $%*# you!" or "Me and my squad not buying Bo-Stalin/Cow for my Macchi and P-40, $%*# you!"

That`s for sure!  

 

I think there will be a lot of whining, no matter what they decide. Someone always complains 

[Brano]

There will be lots of "$%*# you!" whatever they anounce next. Looking forward for those posts, entertaining reading during boring meetings at work   

[LLv24_Zami]

There will be lots of "$%*# you!" whatever they anounce next. Looking forward for those posts, entertaining reading during boring meetings at work   

My thoughts exactly 

[Gambit21]

I'm positive they won't do heavies because of the CPU workload involved. If a twin like the He-111 can slow down a powerful machine, imagine what 50+ Fortresses or Liberators would do!

 

Yep - even a formation of 6 would pose a problem, and that hardly makes for a historically accurate, immersive experience from either an attacking or

escorting standpoint.

 

I used to be able to get a small box of 12 B17's into an online mission in the old sim without any problems.

That's pathetically small as it is.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

On the old sim you could get nice things going with medium/tactical bombers or attack aircraft though, which kind of made up for it. A-20, Pe-2, Blenheim, Ju-87, Ju-88, He-111, Do-217, B-25, Il-2, yadda yadda.

 

ShamrockOneFive (Icefire) did a fantastic campaign for the old Il-2 called "The Dragon Skies" focusing on the 812 IAP over Crimea in 1944, and many of the missions had huge formations of bombers for you to either intercept or escort. A memorable included fending off a Ju-87 attack on your airfield. They came in hordes, and you took off in your Yak-1 to chase them away. I'm not sure how many enemy aircraft there actually were, but it felt like 60.

[Gambit21]

On the old sim you could get nice things going with medium/tactical bombers or attack aircraft though, which kind of made up for it.

 

True

I had a cracking group of Falaise Gap missions in the middle of my "Liberation Skies" campaign that was available for quite some time.

Lots of mediums in use there. 

[Trinkof]

Well from my point of view :

 

- Pacific : early why not, late certainly not, as Grumman always hold intels and numbers about their planes which will give endless FM issues on F4F and F6F with absolutely no option to solve it.

 

- MTO : would love it, but worst marketing choice : you cannot release an MTO without the 109 F4 - E7 ju87 etc.... All plane already sold in BOS, and I would feel cheated to buy those exact same plane in a Dlc or add on, even worst than slightly upgraded version (G4- G6 etc...) I MO.

 

 

So let's assume they will not sell twice the same planes.... In this case they will make other planes for MTO (Italian I guesd) .... And imagine the new player wanting an MTO experience, but forced to buy BOS to actually fly the axis plane he wants, this for sure will kill the game!

 

 

- 1943-1944 western Europe : too much engine limitation to have anything immersive.

 

 

1943-44 and Sicily and Italy, would be good.

 

- Burma theater would be awesome and refreshing.

 

- France / Finland / Spain, would be good also, even if less appealing for a part of the market

 

- Or Kuban, with 2-3 land lease planes (p39, spit and A20) would be IMO the most reasonable solution, even if not the sexiest, and not my favorite.

 

Do not get me wrong, I would pay anytime for malta/ El alamein / Tunisia.... But serious marketing issue would kill the business.

Edited June 2, 2016 by LAL_Trinkof

[BraveSirRobin]

 

And I know I am in minority here, but I would rather see the devs put resources into improving the game itself and adding depth to the content, instead of just setting up a couple of late war planes against a couple of other late war planes.

The revenue from new planes and maps is what pays for the addition of other features. They can just create "resources" out of thin air.

[Aap]

The revenue from new planes and maps is what pays for the addition of other features. They can just create "resources" out of thin air.

 

I know. That is why I said before that they would need to think on how they use their building blocks in order to me able to utilize there resources. So for example if they jump into late war Western Europe with all the totally new planes, (lets say Spitfire IX, P51, Mosquito, B25, P47 as bonus, Bf-109K, Fw-190D, Me-410, Ju-188 and Me-262 as a bonus that people seem to want), how much resources would be left over to use for adding new content or depth to the game? Sure, it would have lots of cool late war planes, but the game itself would be the same - Spits and Mustangs dogfighting Messers and Doras with some bombing also done, but that is it.

[PantsPilot]

KURSK; if the devs have said the next game will be EF then for me Kursk is much the likeliest. 

 

Think about the 2 games so far; Stalingrad and Moscow, both were significant ground battles and turning points in the war in the East, Moscow was where the red army drew it's line in the snow and stopped Hitlers advance on the capitol, whilst Stalingrad obviously was the destruction of 6th Army and a major turning point.

 

Now say what you like about Kuban but there was nothing remotely comparable to those events there. In fact it's probably only remembered as an air battle in terms of the great events on the EF. Even the air battle doesn't get that much coverage in books etc. compared to the other air campaigns. I haven't come across a title relating solely to it yet.

 

Now compare that with Kursk and we have probably the most written about air battle/campaign on the EF, in fact anywhere in WWII. Obviously the ground campaign was HUGELY significant and on a par and perhaps even greater than Stalingrad, certainly Moscow. Kuban is nowhere by comparison in terms of significance to the war.

 

Just in terms of the forces employed it shrinks the Kuban into insignificance, both in the air and on the ground. In terms of aircraft involved it moves the action on very nicely with the games done so far. 

 

The only deficit would be no coastal scenery, but I think the historical significance of what happened at Kursk will be more important. Besides the excitement of flying over a beach wears off just like flying over snowfields does! 

 

Personally I'm more interested in the SP content of the next game more than where it is. Away from the East I'd really like to see Malta/Sicily done next. I don't say Med/Africa because there's no way that these guys can build a map to cover it all! 

[Asgar]

Moscow and Stalingrad where battles going on for weeks or months. Kursk was a couple of days...no Kuban is the better choice if you want to stay on the EF

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Spits and Mustangs dogfighting Messers and Doras with some bombing also done, but that is it.

 

Though I see what you mean, in combat flight simulations there isn't much beyond air combat and ground attack. Features like reconnaissance and artillery spotting were said to be in the 'to-do' list, so they will come eventually. Right now however, there is a whole team of people who work with different things. The 3D modellers don't create artillery spotting, the flight model engineers don't create campaign missions, and the campaign designers don't code features.

 

It is possible and desirable to keep everyone working and pushing out new content while the people in charge of adding new features do their job.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Now say what you like about Kuban but there was nothing remotely comparable to those events there. In fact it's probably only remembered as an air battle in terms of the great events on the EF. Even the air battle doesn't get that much coverage in books etc. compared to the other air campaigns. I haven't come across a title relating solely to it yet.

I would love Kursk just as much, but I must correct you here.

 

The battle raging at the Caucasus was extremely important and paved way to the liberation of Donbass, Rostov, Kiev, Crimea and so on. The battles raging in the air were of a scale comparable to the Battle of Britain, and the land battles were very intense too. Both the Soviet and German armies and marines were throwing everything they had into the battle, there were landing attempts on both sides, attacks, counter-attacks, artillery, ships, you name it.

 

Just because English-speaking historians didn't pay it as much tribute doesn't mean it wasn't important. In the countries that formed the Soviet Union, much of the popular imagination of air combat is derived from there. While at Kursk the Red Army sealed the fate of the ground war, over Kuban the Air Force set the tone for the air war.

 

[Asgar]

i hope Kuban is next and that they will throw in the Me 410 in the place of the "bugged" Me 210. Would be the same thing they did with the P-40 in BoM. The put in a P-40E instead of the P-40C

[BraveSirRobin]

I know. That is why I said before that they would need to think on how they use their building blocks in order to me able to utilize there resources. So for example if they jump into late war Western Europe with all the totally new planes, (lets say Spitfire IX, P51, Mosquito, B25, P47 as bonus, Bf-109K, Fw-190D, Me-410, Ju-188 and Me-262 as a bonus that people seem to want), how much resources would be left over to use for adding new content or depth to the game?

The same as it would be for any other aircraft. Usually it's a different group of people who work on aircraft from those work on other features. For instance, the programmer who works on AI has nothing to do with creating new aircraft.

[Asgar]

actually he does, because he has to teach the AI to fly the new A/C

[BraveSirRobin]

actually he does, because he has to teach the AI to fly the new A/C

They can cut-and-paste a lot of that from existing aircraft.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

i hope Kuban is next and that they will throw in the Me 410 in the place of the "bugged" Me 210. Would be the same thing they did with the P-40 in BoM. The put in a P-40E instead of the P-40C

 

Were either of those there though? I'm guessing you guys would get the Hs-129 in the 'Attack' category in that scenario, but I could be wrong.

 

To elaborate a little on my previous post, the Kuban bridgehead was as important as Stalingrad, Kursk and Moscow because much like the Germans held onto Rzhev to keep a bridgehead open for future advances towards Moscow, they held onto Kuban so that they could launch future offensive operations towards the oil fields in the Caucasus region. When the Germans were forced to evacuate, they lost offensive potential in the region and gave the Red Army the initiative that led it through Kerch to Sevastopol and so on.

[Asgar]

i'm quite sure i read about Me 210 being used in the area. and i would consider the Me 410 for the bomber role in the BoK game. similar to the Pe-2 in BoS and BoM. I don't think it makes sense to add the Ju-88 A-4/torp which simply had a field modification to enable it to carry torpedos.

Edited June 2, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[Aap]

Lucas, I think there is lots of possible content that could be added. For example all the things that existed in IL2 1946, but are still missing here.

And about a team that is working on different things - if there is a good balance of skills that worked for BoM, when they made "another models of Bf109's, IL2's and Pe-2's" and 6 new planes, how would the balance work with 10 totally new planes that the devs have less reference material for?

[Aap]

The same as it would be for any other aircraft. Usually it's a different group of people who work on aircraft from those work on other features. For instance, the programmer who works on AI has nothing to do with creating new aircraft.

So you think those mentioned planes would take the same amount of time like doing Bf109's, Bf110's, Stukas, Ju-88's, P40's, Macchis for North Africa for example? Or making 10 new planes for Africa and using the existing ones also for variety.

[Cpt_Cool]

Here is a crazy idea about Kursk. Lets say they go somewhere else for the next big BoX with airplanes, but then what if they did Kursk as a tank ad on?  I have no idea what it would take to flesh out the tubs, ad a few more, and maybe develop a tank campaign, but it would get my money almost out of curiosity alone (hopefully for less than $60 tho haha).  Like I said, crazy. I really enjoy the tank battles in Red Orchestra, and with a few aircraft to deal with it could be really fun.  Does anyone think a Kursk scenario with like 80% tanks and 20% planes could be popular? 

[BlackSix]

Moscow and Stalingrad where battles going on for weeks or months. Kursk was a couple of days...

July 5 - August 23 - one and a half months.

[Asgar]

meh...still it's boring, the story was told a thousand times. Kuban is much more interesting. and the region is just nicer to look at. 

 

 

btw. i was thinking of the actual operation citadel 5th-16th of July

Edited June 2, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[Aap]

Lets say they go somewhere else for the next big BoX with airplanes, but then what if they did Kursk as a tank ad on?

Would be nice if another team would work on a tank sim on the same engine. Get some income from tank simmers and throw in a couple of planes and maybe they would convert to flight simmers also