What do you guys believe...

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The servers emptying for one and not for another is because of time zones. Again, on PST you'd have the Eastern front emptying the room, while on CET it was the Pacific.
 

Interesting.  Got a link?

 

To get a better picture, here are some poll results from the Russian-speaking forums:
 
Question: "Which theatre of operations are you waiting for the most?"
 
Results:

• Western Europe - 74
• Eastern Europe - 526
• Mediterranean - 99
• South-East Asia - 20
• Pacific - 141

Combining these votes with this poll, we have:

• European Theatre: Eastern Front (Barbarossa, Finland, Poland etc) - 748
• European Theatre: Western Front (BoB, Battle of Normandy etc) - 281
• Mediterranean and Middle East Theatre (East/North African, Italy etc) - 573
• Pacific Asian Theatre (Pacific ocean, Burma, Japan etc) - 407

(...)
 
On a side-note, here are the results of a more detailed poll conducted there. Same question as above. Results (top 5 bolded):

• Kuban - 56
• Kursk - 47  
• Leningrad - 17  
• Crimea - 41   
• Other Eastern Front option - 5   
• Battle of Britain - 4
• El-Alamein - 2
• Tunisia - 11
• Sicily - 4
• Mainland Italy - 0
• Other Western Front - 4
• Guadalcanal - 7
• Burma - 2
• New Guinea - 4
• Midway - 13
• Other Pacific/South-East Asia option - 1
• Spain - 9
• Winter War - 3
• Khalkhin-Gol - 1
• I don't know what I want, and I don't want what I know - 1

 

Interesting to note is that in the East, the Pacific is much more popular than the Mediterranean, while in the West the opposite is true. During the more detailed poll, the Med got 17 votes altogether, while the Pacific/Far East gathered 27. The Eastern Front (including the Winter War and Khalkhin-Gol) collected a neat 170.

[JG13_opcode]

Ah okay, just a poll of existing users here on the forum.

 

Not gonna put too much stock in that

[ShamrockOneFive]

Ah okay, just a poll of existing users here on the forum.

 

Not gonna put too much stock in that

 

The takeaway from the poll is just a sampling of what the more vocal proponents on the forum are thinking about in terms of next theatres. I'm sure these polls will be part of an overall consideration for the business case for the next IL-2 addition but I wouldn't take them as being the only force guiding the decision.

[JG13_opcode]

Yep, completely agree.

 

It's a limited sample size.

[Aap]

Not gonna put too much stock in that ... It's a limited sample size.

 

If these numbers are true:

European Theatre: Eastern Front (Barbarossa, Finland, Poland etc) - 748 European Theatre: Western Front (BoB, Battle of Normandy etc) - 281 Mediterranean and Middle East Theatre (East/North African, Italy etc) - 573 Pacific Asian Theatre (Pacific ocean, Burma, Japan etc) - 407

then you definitely should not put too little stock in that either. Mathematically sample size of over 2000 is big enough to make polls among population of tens of millions and get confidence interval of +/- 3%. Now of course the sample size here is skewed, because it is on a forum of a game that is on Eastern Front, but on the other hand and more importantly, the poll is from the most probable customes - customers of the most modern WWII flight sim.

Edited June 30, 2016 by II./JG77_Kemp

[Gambit21]

Yep, completely agree.

 

It's a limited sample size.

 

Yes - you have discovered the common intrinsic characteristic of every poll taken, anywhere, ever.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Sample size is fine, to guess with good confidence what average owner of game would want to see next. Where did you studied statistics?

[JG13_opcode]

Yes - you have discovered the common intrinsic characteristic of every poll taken, anywhere, ever.

 

Wow, you're kind of a jerk, aren't you?

 

If these numbers are true:

then you definitely should not put too little stock in that either. Mathematically sample size of over 2000 is big enough to make polls among population of tens of millions and get confidence interval of +/- 3%. Now of course the sample size here is skewed, because it is on a forum of a game that is on Eastern Front, but on the other hand and more importantly, the poll is from the most probable customes - customers of the most modern WWII flight sim.

 

This is what I meant:  that the sample is probably not representative of the WWII flight sim market as a whole.  I don't think many valid conclusions about a future game can be drawn by polling a limited subset of people on this forum.  They're hopefully trying to sell to more than just the people on this forum.  Guaranteed less than 100% of users here will buy any future expansion(s).  I for one hope their aspirations are bigger than the few thousand users here.

 

Sample size is fine, to guess with good confidence what average owner of game would want to see next. Where did you studied statistics?

 

Yeah, I might have misspoken.  The sample size isn't strictly what I meant.  It's that the population being sampled (this forum) is probably not a good representation of who the developers want to sell to.  We're just a subset.

[Gambit21]

Wow, you're kind of a jerk, aren't you?

 

If I'm a jerk for calling attention to/acknowledging your "limited sample size" argument and your little "ok" remark, then sure sign me up.

Further, I think members of this forum represent exactly who the developers want to sell to, since we're a sampling of the type of enthusiast

who would purchase such a product, even if a vast majority will not frequent an internet forum. "Represent" being the operative, and your own choice of 

purely accidentally apropos word. 

 

But then you're getting into that pesky limited sample size and the statistics issue again...oops There I go being a jerk again.

[JG13_opcode]

If I'm a jerk for calling attention to/acknowledging your "limited sample size" argument and your little "ok" remark, then sure sign me up.

Further, I think members of this forum represent exactly who the developers want to sell to, since we're a sampling of the type of enthusiast

who would purchase such a product, even if a vast majority will not frequent an internet forum. "Represent" being the operative, and your own choice of 

purely accidentally apropos word. 

 

But then you're getting into that pesky limited sample size and the statistics issue again...oops There I go being a jerk again.

 

Yeah I was typing in a hurry and used the wrong term.  Fsck me, right?

 

Don't let that stop you from trying to be smug and superior.

[Gambit21]

Yeah I was typing in a hurry and used the wrong term.  Fsck me, right?

 

Don't let that stop you from trying to be smug and superior.

 

Words matter since that's pretty much all we have to go on, in a hurry or not.

When the mind reading module is introduced we won't have this problem...Yale is working on it.

 

Seriously, relax.

It's all good.

[JG13_opcode]

Seriously, relax. It's all good.

 

Of the two of us, I don't think I'm the one that is getting emotional about a video game poll, posting sarcastic comments about intrinsic qualities of polling.

 

Have a nice day, prick.  Welcome to my ignore list.

Edited June 30, 2016 by 13GIAP_opcode

[Gambit21]

[Livai]

Just look it from a different perspective. Not sure from where all the customer comes from and what market is still open to give them something to buy IL-2. I just look inside the Multiplayer Server Room and see everytime the Japan Server empty. This open the Question how many customer from Japan bought this game? Not many to nobody, I think?  A open market to invade with ninja style?

[216th_Jordan]

My favorites are also PTO or kuban. PTO would be just great as it would add a lot of diversity to this sim and kuban sure is one of the nicest eastern Front settings for a flight sim.

PTO instead of killing the marked would open it up to US guys as well as japanese. Europeans just don't want to see that (european speaking here).

Edited June 30, 2016 by 216th_Jordan

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

This open the Question how many customer from Japan bought this game? Not many to nobody, I think?

 

Not many ever heard of it out there, I have a few buddies in Japan and some of them fly sims for long but were surprised to hear of BoS. And it doesnt help that this game has no Japanese language version, since despite learning it for long average Japanese is still not that good with it. If you want to hit the market you have to somehow advertise or go through media different way. It's lately very popular topic Zero and war in the Pacific, especially among younger generations (with movies like Eien no Zero or few others). Historical events gather older guys, few of the veterans left around and their families but their meetings are often covered by media. Dont forget that S. Sakai actually advised on Combat Flight Simulator 2.

 

Case is, if you want Japanese, game should get translated into Japanese.    

[Zoltann]

Don´t wanna be a party pooper,....

 

But I would be pleasantly surprised IF a sequel would be coming out at all.

 

How sure is it?

 

I would prefer Kursk or Kuban, but really anything  would make me jump in and support from day 1 again.

 

 

I wished they would leave campaigns to modders and 3rd party people, and use those recources to improve the gameplay.

 

Also free up all skins for premium players, come on I paid for it...

 

 

I read that BOM had the advantage of a lot of research already being done as it was originally a CloD sequel,

 

No such headstart here...

Edited July 1, 2016 by Zoltann

[Dakpilot]

Don´t wanna be a party pooper,....

 

But I would be pleasantly surprised IF a sequel would be coming out at all.

 

How sure is it?

 

 

 

From Jason recently (about a week ago)

 

 

"Give it a rest guys. We will make another product, the questions is what to make and what do we add or change etc."

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Lucas, the only thing necessary for a later P40 is to change to the manifold pressure limits used later on. Simply call it a P40E Late. No change to the 3D model would be necessary.

Not sure there would be interest to be fair, and on top of that the P-40 saw very little action in that area. Specifically, 45 IAP received nine from 25 ZAP in March but phased out all four remaining airworthy ones by April already when they received enough P-39s to do fill the gap. 16 GIAP inherited these four aircraft, but this regiment had already considered the P-40 unfit for combat since the winter when they did training on it so the four Kittyhawks they had (the very P-40E-1 we have here mind you, so no change) only did thirteen combat missions before being tossed aside as well. The Black Sea Fleet aviation operated at best a dozen or so P-40s, I think of K/M models. If to add another lend-lease fighter with the Airacobra it would have to be the Spitfire Mk. V, but perhaps a Yak-9/La-5F would be more useful on the long run. Hurricanes did not operate in the area either.

 

EDIT: To confirm, the Black Sea Fleet operated a whooping 11 P-40K in 1943, all in 7 IAP.

Edited July 1, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[Zoltann]

  From Jason recently (about a week ago)     "Give it a rest guys. We will make another product, the questions is what to make and what do we add or change etc."   Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

Thanks DAK, thats reassuring.  

 

 

 

Now to find some patience 

Edited July 1, 2016 by Zoltann

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

A list of fighter aircraft operated by some units of General Vershinin's 4th Air Army, North Caucasus Front, Kuban 1943:

 

216th Mixed Aviation Division:

• 16 GIAP: P-39D-2/P-39K-1/P-39L-1/P-40E-1 (4) in Spring, plus P-39M-1 and P-39N-0 in Summer
• 42 GIAP: Yak-1
• 57 GIAP: Spitfire Mk. Vb in Spring, exclusively P-39N in summer
• 45 IAP (100 GIAP): P-39D-2/P-39K-1/P-39L-1/P-40E-1 (9) in Spring, plus P-39M-1 and P-39N-0 in Summer
• 84 IAP (101 GIAP): I-16/I-153 in Spring, exclusively P-39 from Summer
• 40 IAP (41 GIAP): I-16 in Spring, converted to La-5 and transferred to Voronezh Front
• 66 IAP: Yak-1 in Spring, exclusively P-39 from Autumn

229th Fighter Aviation Division:

• 494 IAP: P-39 from Autumn
• 484 IAP: Yak-1 in Spring
• 249 IAP: LaGG-3/Yak-1 in Spring, exclusively LaGG-3 from summer

Black Sea Fleet fighter aviation in June:

• 22 MiG-3
• 76 LaGG-3
• 56 Yak-1
• 25 P-39
• 11 P-40

These were spread across 8 IAP (6 GIAP), 32 IAP (11 GIAP), 3 IAP, 7 IAP, 9 IAP, 25 IAP and 62 IAP.

 

Looking at this (admittedly incomplete) list, the P-39D, K or L was the mainstay (with L-1s being predominant in 16 GIAP for example), together with the Yak-1 and LaGG-3. While the latter two were mostly present with M-105PF engines, the Yak-1 appeared in a mix of razorback and bubble top variants, whereas the LaGG-3 were a mixed bag anywhere from the late 1942 30ish series up to the latest 60ish series from Spring 1943. Both incorporated improvements from the La-5 series (like leading edge slats and reworked ailerons) and enjoyed considerable weight reductions, with the latter being capable of a neat 542 km/h at sea level.

 

For the sake of variety they could throw a P-39D/K/L, a late-series LaGG-3 and a Spitfire Mk. Vb, up against the Fw-190A-5, Bf-109G-6 and a IAR 81. While most of the Soviet planeset except for the LaGG-3 would still have been manufactured in 1941/1942, it would be more than enough to toast some Luftwaffes.

A P-39D-2 would be able to mount the Hispano 20mm cannon, found in P-39D-2s in some cases and confirmed to have been supplied to Soviet units in small numbers as seen in photos.

[Feathered_IV]

If I had to find a happy compromise for all I'd choose Malta.  All the carrier and anti-shipping fun of the Pacific, tied up in a euro-centric Britain vs Germany war of attrition in a battlefield that lasted for years.

[Livai]

 

Not many ever heard of it out there, I have a few buddies in Japan and some of them fly sims for long but were surprised to hear of BoS. And it doesnt help that this game has no Japanese language version, since despite learning it for long average Japanese is still not that good with it. If you want to hit the market you have to somehow advertise or go through media different way. It's lately very popular topic Zero and war in the Pacific, especially among younger generations (with movies like Eien no Zero or few others). Historical events gather older guys, few of the veterans left around and their families but their meetings are often covered by media. Dont forget that S. Sakai actually advised on Combat Flight Simulator 2.

 

Case is, if you want Japanese, game should get translated into Japanese.    

 

 

 

Japan is a different market. And IL-2 need to reach every customer around the world. If look around youtube you see many AMV videos about WW2 posted from Japanese. Translate this game into Japanese is not a problem if there is a active fanbase. This only happends if we go with a pacific theatre. If we go. Posting good AMV Videos helps a lot. Adding playable ships like the Yamato for example. There are ways to increase the ratio and reach many customer. I think it is time to switch the theatre after two eastern front theatre. Battle of Berlin is far far away. Something what is heavy interesting is far far away. If thats to much for them.... Is a pacific theatre a easy task.....  

[beepee]

I completely forgot about Murmansk.

 

Was there not a community made map/terrain somewhere?

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

A P-39D-2 would be able to mount the Hispano 20mm cannon, found in P-39D-2s in some cases and confirmed to have been supplied to Soviet units in small numbers as seen in photos.

P-39 D-2 and P-400 (aka Airacobras known as "P-40 with a 0 on its tail"), poor is the soul that will be flying it. I'd even consider it inferior to P-40 tbh.

 

 

 

There are ways to increase the ratio and reach many customer.

Sure there are, and if something then Asian market has a great potential with numbers. Only case is to find that sweet spot and advertise the product. I know for instance 2-3 clans/squadrons flying war thunder sim battles and they are actually quite good virtual pilots, just not easy to communicate with due to language barrier  

[Trooper117]

I don't care where we go, as long as it isn't the eastern front...

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Well, Faddeev (best kill/day ratio in Kuban) and Iskrin (over 12 kills in three months) flew the P-39D-2 with pretty good results. While it was no world beater it did the job and I would take one over a P-40 any time

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Now that is weird Lucas. Could you be so kind and tell me what aircraft they were fighting ? 

Because Japanese and Americans had vastly different experiences with P-39 Ds and P-400s, loosing 38 machines throughout couple of months when they managed to shoot down aprox. 11 Japanese pilots. And those were not complete rookies, since unlike their Australian colleagues, they had a complete flight training in US, especially 8th FG became quite effective unit. Of course one has to take into account that P-39s were at given time present in larger quantities than P-40E, but still ... that joke :

Q: What is P-400 ?

A: A P-40 with a 0 on its tail !

came after the harsh experiences. 

 

I guess different fronts, different scores  

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

They were fighting Bf-109G-2s and Fw-190A-5s in Spring, flown by some of the best Axis units and pilots (including E. Hartmann). Ivan Babak also flew a P-39D-2 in the Spring of 1943.

 

I would guess this was due to the nature of the fighting and how the aircraft compared in general. The P-39 was poor at higher altitudes while 16 GIAP and 45 IAP mostly flew there at around 4000m. Also, I would assume the P-39 had a manoeuvrability edge against the Bf-109 and Fw-190 while remaining competitive in terms of speed, whereas it didn't have much going for it against the Ki-43 and contemporary A6M. Combat experience (as opposed to pilot training) might have helped as well - the Japanese and Soviets had hands-on combat experience from China, Spain, Mongolia and the Soviets had been fighting the Axis air forces for two years then. While the Americans got a slap in the face by the Japanese, the Soviets also suffered the same fate in the beginning before turning the tide and burying the enemy.

[Livai]

 

 

just not easy to communicate with due to language barrier

 

you're holding back? I everytime found a way to communicate. Sometimes the hard way.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Now that is weird Lucas. Could you be so kind and tell me what aircraft they were fighting ? 

Because Japanese and Americans had vastly different experiences with P-39 Ds and P-400s, loosing 38 machines throughout couple of months when they managed to shoot down aprox. 11 Japanese pilots. And those were not complete rookies, since unlike their Australian colleagues, they had a complete flight training in US, especially 8th FG became quite effective unit. Of course one has to take into account that P-39s were at given time present in larger quantities than P-40E, but still ... that joke :

Q: What is P-400 ?

A: A P-40 with a 0 on its tail !

came after the harsh experiences. 

 

I guess different fronts, different scores

 

It took me a while to get to grips with this too. There was a lot working against the Americans on their initial deployment of P-39s and P-400s to Port Moresby and that included pilot training, maintenance crew training, the remote location relative to the US supply chain at the time, and the Owen Stanley Mountain range which is where they were often forced to intercept incoming raids. The mountains alone pushed the P-39/P-400s intercept altitude up to 20,000 feet and beyond where the performance of the aircraft was already inadequate.

 

The Russian experience at Murmansk and during the Kuban battles was dramatically different with battles being fought at lower altitudes, shorter ranges, and by 1943 during the Kuban battles, the VVS pilot corps was vastly improved from just 6-12 months prior with better tactics and training.

 

Basically the P-39 worked very well as a tactical fighter at low altitude over Russia and very poorly as an interceptor and over long ranges as it was asked to do in New Guinea. USAAF pilots did well with the P-39 after the initial campaign slowed down. Once the Allied forces started pushing over the mountains - They found the P-39s firepower was excellent in low level attacks on Japanese positions and maintenance and pilot training issues started to clear up. Still, there was almost no need for the P-39... what was needed was a long range interceptor and the P-38 fit the bill in a way that the P-39 never could.

 

With the context ... it all starts to make sense.

[Dakpilot]

Each Theater and aircraft deployed there, had very different tactical situations, what worked on Eastern front did not translate to Pacific or Western front, or sometimes even the Med 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[-TBC-AeroAce]

If I had to find a happy compromise for all I'd choose Malta. All the carrier and anti-shipping fun of the Pacific, tied up in a euro-centric Britain vs Germany war of attrition in a battlefield that lasted for years.

I would love Malta but it is way to dense scenery wise for the devs to do to the standard of accuracy they/we want in their normal time frame.

 

Same reason we can't fly over Moscow

[Feathered_IV]

I was thinking about that too. The density of buildings in Valetta would make it very difficult. They'd have to concentrate on the battles of 1942 when most of the city was in rubble.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Feathered_IV

[wtornado]

The next Theatre of Operations smells Kuban with all the hints and polls?

[ShamrockOneFive]

I would love Malta but it is way to dense scenery wise for the devs to do to the standard of accuracy they/we want in their normal time frame.

 

Same reason we can't fly over Moscow

 

I was thinking about that too. The density of buildings in Valetta would make it very difficult. They'd have to concentrate on the battles of 1942 when most of the city was in rubble.

 

This is another reason why I'm thinking the North Africa part of the campaign would be a bit easier to do. It's not unlike the current maps that they have... albeit with a very different aesthetic.

[Dakpilot]

North Africa/Med late 41/42/43 could be nice, with a lot of equipment being shared with Eastern front on both sides boosting BoS/BoM as well as keeping people happy who are looking for a change of scene

 

but I still think Kuban in DN engine could result in some spectacular scenery and fun flying..add in DX11/12 and we have a result!! 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Frequent_Flyer]

Just look it from a different perspective. Not sure from where all the customer comes from and what market is still open to give them something to buy IL-2. I just look inside the Multiplayer Server Room and see everytime the Japan Server empty. This open the Question how many customer from Japan bought this game? Not many to nobody, I think?  A open market to invade with ninja style?

If you tally up all the votes, I bet not 20% of the total are ever playing on line, regardless where they call home. The Eastern Fron maps and plane set do not generate much interest, considering the multiplayer format is the life blood of this franchise.. Move it to the PTO you would get a big influx on Chinese and Japanese interest and more Western interest than currently shows up on the servers.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

 

 

but I still think Kuban in DN engine could result in some spectacular scenery and fun flying..add in DX11/12 and we have a result!!

 

The view from Gelendzhik

 

Add a couple of these in there and it's a party:

 

[Dakpilot]

During my endless quest to get optimum performance/graphic fidelity in original IL-2+ mods I always used one of the stock simple missions in the Kuban map

 

I think it was a few G6's intercept 4 IL-2 + 2 escorts raiding the harbour

 

I became very familiar with that view 

 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited July 5, 2016 by Dakpilot