What do you guys believe...

[Pharoah]

I fired up IL2 Cliffs of Dover yesterday (with the Team Fusion mods) and went....WOW. So many things that I took for granted the first time round such as:

 

- clickable cockpits

- the graphical quality of the game compared to say BOS/BOM....CloD seems to be a little sharper but that could just be me

- the brightness and beauty of flying over SE England on a sunny day or NW France

 

Its not perfect obviously even with the mods but its still a damn good game.

[Gambit21]

I don't mind not having clickable cockpits.

A magic floating cursor in front of my face is not necessarily an immersion builder for me.

 

Edit: Although I also understand the appeal for some.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Gambit21

[LLv24_Zami]

I don't mind not having clickable cockpits.

 

A magic floating cursor in front of my face is not necessarily an immersion builder

for me.

 

Edit: Although I also understand the

appeal for some.

+1

 

It wouldn't add anything to my flight experience.

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Ju-52 + floats as unlock and we have Kuban/Stalingrad and every other german airbridge possible!

 

Devs please take notice :D

 

MAKE IL-2 GREAT AGAIN!!!!!

Edited June 15, 2016 by 6./ZG26_McKvack

[Pharoah]

Anybody know...whats the deal with IL2 Cliffs of Dover? is this managed by 1C as well? if so, why don't they just use that and expand on it? eg. develop 1942/43 plane set. They already have the map (which is gorgeous).

[BraveSirRobin]

That uses a physics/game engine that is incompatible with BoS/BoM engine.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Anybody know...whats the deal with IL2 Cliffs of Dover? is this managed by 1C as well? if so, why don't they just use that and expand on it? eg. develop 1942/43 plane set. They already have the map (which is gorgeous).

 

It was developed by the original IL-2 development team (more or less), however, it launched too early and was rife with bugs and issues. That dev team later disbanded.

 

Although third party intervention has made it playable now, it won't receive any official developer support any more. Its effectively dead (third party efforts aside).

[Pharoah]

that's a shame. I flew around in a Hurri and Spit last night and had a ball. The ground graphics aren't as good as BOM when you're close in but from height the fields of SE England are just beautiful.

[Gambit21]

I got so mad at the mess when I installed it the first time years ago - I've refused to give it another second of my time since.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Gambit21

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I bought the disk on the week of release at a tech store I lived closed to, installed it... and then it didn't run. Well, it barely ran. Lag everywhere, the game was a slideshow. I was so bummed out, there was so much anticipation for it and then that happened. At the store - a reasonably big retailer conveniently positioned by a major avenue in Moscow - there was even a digital countdown by the entrance. Il-2, Battle of Britain (as it is called in Russian), 00 days, 00:00:00 left. Due to limited time which I usually put into the new Il-2 I haven't given it a go with the Team Fusion patch. My computer is too old anyway so it probably won't do it justice, but I should try it again in a while.

Unfortunately, because of that I don't think we can reasonably expect the Battle of Britain to be revisited in the next three instalments at the very least. Not until the engine upgrades of this Il-2 render Cliffs of Dover utterly obsolete and the trauma of that debacle is gone.

[Gambit21]

Us flight sim types have long memories - that debacle will be fresh for a while.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Five years and we still talk about it as if it was yesterday

[Gambit21]

50 bucks is 50 bucks - that's a nice dinner out with the wife...or a game that actually works. 

[Feathered_IV]

Five years and we still talk about it as if it was yesterday

 

I think the flight sim community still shows the scars from that epic debacle and will still be counting the cost for years to come.

[BlitzPig_EL]

You are correct Feathered.

 

The failure of Cliffs of Dover has, and will continue to, cast a bleak shadow over the entire genre for a very long time.

 

None of the BlitzPigs will ever pre-order another flight sim again, ever.  Just one example.

 

The proof is in the pudding as they say, and the pudding isn't served until official release.

While we are tepidly back into the game, it has taken this long since the release of BoS for us to form up and give it a real go, and if you recall, we used to be online almost every day in original IL2.

[senseispcc]

BOK, K could stand for Kursk or Kuban I could pay for the two or for each one, yes I could ! 

[senseispcc]

Or it could be BOWF, Batlle Of the Western Front, 1943 until 1945, why not ?!

Figthers battles ?!

Bombers raids over Europe ?! Fighter escort and interceptions ?!

Day and night combat ?! 

Radar on the ground and in the air ?!

Long range raids ?!

From Britain to Berlin ?! 1000km x 500 km map ?!

One very long campaing  to destroy or defend Germany ?!

A double or triple game with double or triple as many flyable planes ?! At twice or 3 time the price ?!

[Dutchvdm]

Or it could be BOWF, Batlle Of the Western Front, 1943 until 1945, why not ?!

Figthers battles ?!

Bombers raids over Europe ?! Fighter escort and interceptions ?!

Day and night combat ?!

Radar on the ground and in the air ?!

Long range raids ?!

From Britain to Berlin ?! 1000km x 500 km map ?!

One very long campaing to destroy or defend Germany ?!

A double or triple game with double or triple as many flyable planes ?! At twice or 3 time the price ?!

And you think that is realistic? Sure it sounds nice but i dont think the next one year project is going to be bigget then everything they build up to now combined.

 

Grt M

Edited June 17, 2016 by 1./ZG1_Martijnvdm

[Gambit21]

Or it could be BOWF, Batlle Of the Western Front, 1943 until 1945, why not ?!

Figthers battles ?!

Bombers raids over Europe ?! Fighter escort and interceptions ?!

Day and night combat ?! 

Radar on the ground and in the air ?!

Long range raids ?!

From Britain to Berlin ?! 1000km x 500 km map ?!

One very long campaing  to destroy or defend Germany ?!

A double or triple game with double or triple as many flyable planes ?! At twice or 3 time the price ?!

 

Nope

[senseispcc]

Clifs Of Dovers was not a bad game, it was issued to soon ! If you had a great PC to make it work you had no problem with it !

But still it laked  some part of the game.

I still play it from time to time. But only to fly the beautiful Spitfire or the great BF109 you do not get the immersion feeling ou get  into the original IL2 game or in the BOS or BOM resent additions.

I say it was a game that was issued when the pc's where not ready for it.

Edited June 17, 2016 by senseispcc

[Gambit21]

Clifs Of Dovers was not a bad game, it was issued to soon ! If you had a great PC to make it work you had no problem with it !

But still it laked  some part of the game.

I still play it from time to time. But only to fly the beautiful Spitfire or the great BF109 you do not get the immersion feeling ou get  into the original IL2 game or in the BOS or BOM resent additions.

I say it was a game that was issued when the pc's where not ready for it.

 

Very produtive?! Why nope?!

 

Read the thread

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Let me help: too big of a map, too long of a period, too much work, not compatible with current material. Bf-109E-7 does not go well with Tempest Mk. V, but it does with Spitfire Mk. V or La-5F. I'm positive the next expansion will be set in 1943 because it's the last year where the Battle of Moscow aircraft were still up and running.

[No601_Swallow]

Clifs Of Dovers was not a bad game, it was issued to soon ! If you had a great PC to make it work you had no problem with it !

But still it laked  some part of the game.

 

 

CloD was and is broken on a fundamental level. Yes, you can run dogfights on it, and yes, the pits are glorious, but so much of the functionality is, erm, non-functioning. AI? Porked. FMB? Ditto. Triggers? Rudimentary. Map? God-awful. Coop? Pah! Oh, and you need a PhD in computer programming to get the game to do anything other than throw a dogfight onto the map. 

 

I agree with Blitzpig_El. My squadron is still paying the price for our transition to CloD, and I'll never get back the countless hours I put in to trying to find workarounds for many of the "issues". And my squadron's a bloody Battle of Britain squadron - which just makes the whole experience feel all the more bitter.

[senseispcc]

Let me help: too big of a map, too long of a period, too much work, not compatible with current material. Bf-109E-7 does not go well with Tempest Mk. V, but it does with Spitfire Mk. V or La-5F. I'm positive the next expansion will be set in 1943 because it's the last year where the Battle of Moscow aircraft were still up and running.

 

The first IL2 (1946) did have all this planes only the map was  missing ?!

Edited June 17, 2016 by senseispcc

[senseispcc]

CloD was and is broken on a fundamental level. Yes, you can run dogfights on it, and yes, the pits are glorious, but so much of the functionality is, erm, non-functioning. AI? Porked. FMB? Ditto. Triggers? Rudimentary. Map? God-awful. Coop? Pah! Oh, and you need a PhD in computer programming to get the game to do anything other than throw a dogfight onto the map. 

 

I agree with Blitzpig_El. My squadron is still paying the price for our transition to CloD, and I'll never get back the countless hours I put in to trying to find workarounds for many of the "issues". And my squadron's a bloody Battle of Britain squadron - which just makes the whole experience feel all the more bitter.

 

What you write is all true but like I said the game was to soon and released in a  hurry to get money out of it. The in game map was shit but the game in itself the ground did evolve nicely.  

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

It had all these aircraft, but on a far more rudimentary level of modelling (both 3D and flight models), and unlike the first Il-2 we don't have 100 maps to throw aircraft around, and 100 aircraft to fly either.

 

We have 20 aircraft and a small set of maps, only three of which are properly used by the community. The craziest thing you could do at this point is to throw in an expansion that is not compatible with the previous material, because then you cut the online community in half.

 

Also, the expansion you are proposing would probably cost the same as the development of BoS, BoM and Bo(3), and would have to cost the same as three games together as well. It would take three times that to develop, and three times the amount of bug fixing.

[Gambit21]

Yep

As much as I'm a Pacific theater fan, I'd rather see a fleshed out Kuban scenario next than a half baked Europe add-on...and half baked would be the best case scenario given where

we're at right now.

 

Until we can get a nice big bomber box, and a flight from East Anglia to France and Germany - it's a no go.

 

I know it won't happen, and it's probably not even wise from a development standpoint, but selfishly, in a perfect world I'd like to see a road map of maybe the next two or three releases - then I could make an educated decision as to when/if to start learning the mission editor.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

If they do spit out a Kuban (yes please) next year then it would make sense to start over in 1942 far in the Pacific, borrowing only the P-40, P-39 and A-20. After that, a Pacific 1943 and then either hop elsewhere for 1941-1943 again or go forth into the East again in 1944-1945 and then Pacific 1944-1945.

 

A possible problem with this approach is, obviously, the lack of anything in Western and Southern Europe or ME/NA but there's a reason for that. With a Soviet-German 1941-1943 front complete, all major German types would be represented and the C.202 would be in too, and coupled with Pacific 1942-1943 there would be a lot of contemporary American and British metal flying. This would be the perfect setting for a Northern Africa/Southern Italy 1942-1943 map+campaign pack. As we thunder into 1944-1945, the Soviet-German games would bring the German aircraft while the US/CW-Japanese games would bring the Western Allied aircraft, meaning only maps and campaigns would be left for a reasonably complete series that covers the war from 1941-1945, leaving only 1939-1940 unexplored. At that point there would be choices to be made - going into 1939-1940, or filling the small gaps left in the timeline proposed above.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

For fun (order of release):

 

1941

Battle of Moscow (2)

 

1942

Battle of Stalingrad (1)

Battle of Midway (with Midway and Coral Sea campaigns) (4)

 

1943

Battle of Kuban (3)

Battle of New Guinea (5)

 

1944

Operation Bagration (6)

Battle of Burma (8)

 

1945

Battle of Berlin (including Vistula-Oder Operation) (7)

Battle of Okinawa (9)

 

Let it be very clear that I am largely ignorant in the Pacific/Far East compared to the Eastern Front so please do step up and tell me which entries to change if they do not live up to the task.

[Gambit21]

I think a proper Pacific would require a few modules. 

There's a lot to cover just in 42-43 with both planes and maps, not to mention shipping.

Can't ignore Guadalcanal, Solomons...both Midway and Coral Sea are pretty much just water.

Then there's New Guinea

 

Like I keep saying, The Slot is where the rubber meets the road for early Pacific after the carrier battles.

 

I would spend time in early war Pacific to make that clientele happy for a while, then move to the Med, 

then late ware Pacific...the back east again. The ocean, carrier battle maps would have to be worked in there somewhere, but

they don't have to be first.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Whenever anyone mentions carriers I always think about how many people I've seen ragequit BOS/BOM after having trouble with engine starts and taxiways(even old timers) and how many more I'd see throw a fit over splashing off the end of a carrier! :D

[Gambit21]

Whenever anyone mentions carriers I always think about how many people I've seen ragequit BOS/BOM after having trouble with engine starts and taxiways(even old timers) and how many more I'd see throw a fit over splashing off the end of a carrier! :D

Hehe - we had more than a few restarts in CoOps back in the day.

Especially trying to get the Corsair off with a full load - mind out of the gutter people.

[Gambit21]

The thing about carriers is, after a few short battles they were stashed out of the way for quite a while - those early short battles don't make

for much of a campaign so to speak. That's why we need The Slot.

Thus you can provide a relatively easy to produce Midway map (very little land) a Coral Sea map, then get on

with the more important Solomons and New Guinea maps.

 

Producing carriers, plus other shipping, plus all those maps is a tall order for a single release however.

Thus my idea to leave carriers until the second stage/release when there is revenue to do so.

To a lot of people Pacific means CARRIERS!...but that wasn't the reality during the period of the fiercest, most evenly matched and prolonged fighting.

 

Don't get me wrong - I want carriers at some point.

[Jade_Monkey]

Ive never been a fan of the pacific but the idea is growing on me. I still prefer Mediterranean but after playing Hearts of Iron 4 as japan i kinda want to see the Pacific too.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

That Corsair take-off still gets me every time I play on 1946. It always looks like it will work out and it always ends in the water. Bonus points if the carrier is moving and then runs you over resulting in a fantastic explosion

 

I'll let the Pacific crowd deliberate a little more and then edit the post. Balancing Army/Navy to complete these periods is definitely hard, and if carrier action turns too complicated (or with campaigns that are too short) the scenarios could be changed to focus on Army action, for example. Also, not to leave Moscow alone in 1941, the Mediterranean could have its way in 1941 with a set containing mostly British and Italian aircraft.

 

I wouldn't sit in the Pacific for more than two expansions at a time because it would leave people hanging at home for the devs, which is always unpleasant.

 

Today I had one of those missions which shows why I love the current setting so much. Set off in three Pe-2s to bomb a German airfield. Briefing said level bomb from 5000m but that wouldn't deal as much damage, so I checked the map, consulted the wingmen and agreed on a plan. Four I-16s were with us for this mission. The enemy airbase was directly to the West of us, and though it was a bit far and without many landmarks, a railway could be used to get there and back. We took off, formed up and I levelled out at 600m. Halfway to the target I saw a puff of white smoke from the middle of the forest - a locomotive! Above it there were a few Bf-109s, but I couldn't let the chance pass. I selected a single bomb to be dropped and went in, while my escort fighters quickly climbed then dived on those Bf-109s, damaging three of them in ten seconds! Releasing one of my ten FAB-100s, I was gleeful with the direct hit scored. The flak car hit me repeatedly but only my gunner paid for it - wounded, not too badly though. One Bf-109 came along with us but it was damaged by wingman n.2 and finished off by my stricken gunner. The enemy airfield approached and I selected a series of four bombs to be dropped. First pass, direct hits and two Bf-109s go up in flames. I went around and strafed the other apron, dropping another four bombs and thus another Bf-109 together with some trucks exploded. We didn't take any significant hits from the AAA, I had one bomb left, we went home following the railway. That last bomb was dropped towards the same locomotive I saw before, my gunners shot at it but the thing still kept running without its cargo. Closer to the frontlines I strafed an artillery position but to no avail - the guns were self-propelled armoured ones, nothing 7.62mm rounds could do about it. Finally I did a smooth landing and took the poor gunner to the regiment's doctor, still happy with the results despite the damage

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Whenever anyone mentions carriers I always think about how many people I've seen ragequit BOS/BOM after having trouble with engine starts and taxiways(even old timers) and how many more I'd see throw a fit over splashing off the end of a carrier! :D

It's a matter of practice. It is in nature of this type of entertainment that person doesnt jump straight into action but has to learn how to fly, how to manage own aircraft and how to engage enemy aircraft. 

 

Learning how to land on aircraft carrier was not an easy or quick thing, but it is nothing impossible. Problem is that old Il-2 while gave aircraft carriers, developers forgot that they had specific systems and procedures indicating correct or incorrect approach of landing aircraft. And thats what was lacking. I remember in one of my books there was a detailed procedure on landing with B5N on board of carrier (in that case it was IJN Kaga I believe). 

 

 

 

The thing about carriers is, after a few short battles they were stashed out of the way for quite a while - those early short battles don't make for much of a campaign so to speak.

That's why Midway or Wake or else would work very nicely as separate maps, like Velikie Luki (or whatever it is named) since they dont involve large terrain. Possibly even custom made.   

 

 

 

Thus you can provide a relatively easy to produce Midway map (very little land) a Coral Sea map, then get on with the more important Solomons and New Guinea maps.   Producing carriers, plus other shipping, plus all those maps is a tall order for a single release however. Thus my idea to leave carriers until the second stage/release when there is revenue to do so.

Hence New Guinea first, with addition of small aircraft carrier like IJN Junyo or Hiyo to get things started and tested before going for big stuff like USN Lexington or IJN Shokaku.  First small aircraft carrier, few cruisers and destroyers + transport ships and landing crafts. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Kuban would be a very good place to do the shipping homework before jumping into something where ships play a major role.

[Gambit21]

Hence New Guinea first, with addition of small aircraft carrier like IJN Junyo or Hiyo to get things started and tested before going for big stuff like USN Lexington or IJN Shokaku.  First small aircraft carrier, few cruisers and destroyers + transport ships and landing crafts. 

 

Insert "Guadalcanal/Slot" after "Hence" and I'm all over it! 

I like New Guinea too - just lacks that Zeke vs Wildcat factor.

In the end, we need both. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Would it make sense to then have Guadalcanal for PTO-1942 and New Guinea for PTO-1943? To elaborate, is it possible to come up with 20 aircraft that do not overlap?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Writings from Kuban, Over The Blue Line, by Aleksandr Pokryshkin.

 

The battle for air superiority didn't happen in individual battles, but in large protracted engagements. They started from morning and finished in the evening, growing like a storm aided by endless strong winds. We slowly but surely wrestled air superiority to our side.

 

Once I led a group of eight Airacobras to cover our troops on the ground. West of Novorossiysk, three groups of enemy aircraft came to meet us, totalling eighty one bombers covered by ten Messers. I ordered Fyodorov to attack a flight of four enemy fighters, and I with Rechkalov went to attack the Junkers.

 

We came onto them from above. Already in the first attack I shoot down the leader of the first group. Their bomber formation scatters. A second attack, and yet another Junkers falls to the ground, covered in flames. Rechkalov's pair also successfully attacks the enemy.

 

In panic, the enemy starts to drop their bombs without order. The Junkers go down to tree-top level and save themselves however they can. We in turn come onto the second group. The picture repeats itself, and I even lose my breath at the sight.

 

At this point I hear on the radio: "Pokryshkin! Pokryshkin! This is Tiger. There are Germans above us. Attack!"

 

The call came from the control station. We had to run to their location, so I got my eight aircraft and took course eastwards. Behind us, like lighthouses, burned the Junkers we shot down.

 

Over Krymskaya we met twelve Messerschmitts. They, of course, had been sent here to clean up the sky ahead of their bombers, but we had just ripped apart the armada they were waiting for.

 

After getting altitude over them, my two flights launched themselves at the Messerschmitts. They, however, didn't accept the battle and quickly left towards Anapa. We weren't up to chasing them either - ammunition and fuel were on their last legs.

 

At this time another two groups of Junkers show up. Above them eight fighters were providing cover. What to do? I led my group into an attack. With a burst I managed to knock out the leader of the first group, but then my bullets and rounds were all spent. The same happened to the other pilots. The enemy bombers however were still trucking to the front lines.

 

Within the circumstances, I passed the order to the group:

 

- Form up! Let's imitate ramming!

 

The pilots understood my reasoning. True, before not even once had we engaged in 'psychological' attack with a group, but right now we had virtually no other way out.

 

The Hitlerites didn't hold up to our friendly attack. Without order, the bombs were released, they dove down and went off in their way home. And right at that time came our own fighters to relieve us. Only then we could leave the station. We accomplished our task, and did not lose a single plane.