What do you guys believe...

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Feathered for president !

[DD_Arthur]

Feathered for president !

 

OK and his first presidential decree shall be "We'll have a freakin' mods on mode for BoS!"  Hurrah!! and long live the pres, etc.   

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Well, to counter all this Kuban stuff, I bring a tiny bit of history

 

 

I still think that Betty looks cool. Either flying or burning 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Always enjoyed flying the Betty.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I have nothing against the Pacific Hiromachi, it makes for a great game, I only suggest we do it after closing this chapter

 

Very nice video Off topic, but I think sim video directors really need to be more creative with the soundtracks. It's always either AC/DC or some super duper orchestral tune that sounds like Budget Hans Zimmer. I can only get back to making videos once I upgrade my PC, but the soundtracks are a pet peeve of mine.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Speaking of sim videos, here is one of the most impressive productions I've seen outside the most famous ones. The storytelling and imagery in particular are stunning. Made by our own directing genius, Pauk. The setting is a Red Banner Baltic Fleet attack on the Väinämöinen coastal defence ship, July 1944.

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[Rjel]

People keep talking about finishing the East as if it's a logical linear progression. Say we end up then in 1944 or even '45. How then do you generate excitement for the hoped masses that will sign on once a different theater is released? Presumably that theater would be set back in time. Would it be 1939, '40 or '41? Casual simmers who just finished flying some hotrodded 1944 planeset won't likely want to experience a load of inferior A/C from 2-3 years earlier in the war. Some of us will, but that won't attract a large new audience in my mind. I think the series would be better served if it followed the war years in order instead of just finishing up a complete front as it appears IL-2 will do.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Roughly speaking you can give each aircraft variant some 2-3 years of service before it's wholly outclassed, with a few exceptions.

 

In that vein, aircraft from 1941 can soldier into 1943 as they did. The Spitfire Mk V, P-39D-N, P-40B-E, s.-seater Il-2, Bf-109G-2, Wildcat, etc. serve as examples. Some exceeded that period (like the I-16s and He-111s who remained mostly the same since 1939 and were still at the front in 1943) but you get the idea.

 

I agree that if they came up with a 1944/5 expansion next it would be a turn off at this point (I-16 x Fw-190D, P-51D vs. Bf-109E and so on), but if they do it sequentially it won't matter as much. In the old Il-2 you had all the 1945 aircraft but people really went crazy over all periods, mostly 1943 because both sides had reached a very mature and even state by then. The La-5 and Hellcat were game-changer designs in widespread use, the Yak-9, P-39, Spitfire, P-51 and P-47 had matured into excellent fighters, while Axis mainstay designs like the Fw-190, Bf-109, A6M and Ki-43 moved towards their pinnacle.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

How about Murmansk area. British, axis and VVS all were there + a coast + possible carrier action(not sure about that one) + big convoy/port raids

[Frequent_Flyer]

How about Murmansk area. British, axis and VVS all were there + a coast + possible carrier action(not sure about that one) + big convoy/port raids

The Med would/could have carrier action, definitely convoys, could also  throw in submarines. it would include considerably more Nations and much more exciting scenery. I do not need to see any more white landscape ,whitewashed aircraft and vehicles the very definition of monotony. This franchise is experiencing the law of diminishing returns first hand. Let's take it somewhere warmer, more colorful  with deep blue water.- Guadalcanal or the Med.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Why I specifically mentioned Murmansk is that It keeps the Russians and the west happy. Where as the Med, Afrika and PTO..... dont have any VVS

[Frequent_Flyer]

Why I specifically mentioned Murmansk is that It keeps the Russians and the west happy. Where as the Med, Afrika and PTO..... dont have any VVS

The Russians could continue to play BOS and BOM, clearly they enjoy these two scenario's. The P-39, Spitfire, B-25, G-50, Gladiator, Hurricane all flew in Africa and the EF.  However more importantly they flew in the Med./ Africa additionally, who wouldn't want to fly the Cr 42  over some stunning scenery. Or another version of the Yak, La-5, 109 , Ju-87 Bf-110- fly it till the end of the runway attack a small convoy and fly back to your base. ....Really....

[Danziger]

I'd love to do Kuban, Murmansk, Kursk, or Leningrad. I like learning about the Soviet aspect. I have my MiG-3 though so I really don't care where they go next. Although, a Yak-9 or LaGG-3-66 or La-5F would be cool too. With an Il-4 and a true two seat Shturmovik to go with them. Maybe a premium P-39 or P-63... I would even be down with another step backward in time with some early variants of Yak-1, LaGG-3, and MiG-3. With an SB-2 and Su-2.

 

Also I really don't think they care about expanding their horizons or growing their business by catering to the wishes of westerners. If they wanted to rake in cash they would've made a FPS or sports game or War Thunder. These guys seem like some serious WW2 aviation obsessed computer geeks that are making the game they want to make. If they do leave the Eastern Front it definitely wouldn't be because they want to cash in on the gold mine of wealthy western PC WW2 flight simulation enthusiasts.

Edited June 4, 2016 by BorysVorobyov

[Gambit21]

People keep talking about finishing the East as if it's a logical linear progression. Say we end up then in 1944 or even '45. How then do you generate excitement for the hoped masses that will sign on once a different theater is released? Presumably that theater would be set back in time. Would it be 1939, '40 or '41? Casual simmers who just finished flying some hotrodded 1944 planeset won't likely want to experience a load of inferior A/C from 2-3 years earlier in the war. Some of us will, but that won't attract a large new audience in my mind. I think the series would be better served if it followed the war years in order instead of just finishing up a complete front as it appears IL-2 will do.

I don't know.

As much as I want PTO/Guadalcanal as soon as possible, it wont hurt it's popularity if it comes later.

(although the patience of the player base and popularity of the sim itself will suffer of we stay just in the East for too long)

Many of us preferred early war plane sets even back in the day when the 1946 add-on was released.

[Frequent_Flyer]

Lets compromise between the PTO and Med.- Operation Torch has a very interesting plane set including some French offerings as well as the Wildcat and Spitfire.  We have some capital ships and interesting scenery.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I'd love to do Kuban, Murmansk, Kursk, or Leningrad. I like learning about the Soviet aspect. I have my MiG-3 though so I really don't care where they go next. Although, a Yak-9 or LaGG-3-66 or La-5F would be cool too. With an Il-4 and a true two seat Shturmovik to go with them. Maybe a premium P-39 or P-63... I would even be down with another step backward in time with some early variants of Yak-1, LaGG-3, and MiG-3. With an SB-2 and Su-2.

 

Also I really don't think they care about expanding their horizons or growing their business by catering to the wishes of westerners. If they wanted to rake in cash they would've made a FPS or sports game or War Thunder. These guys seem like some serious WW2 aviation obsessed computer geeks that are making the game they want to make. If they do leave the Eastern Front it definitely wouldn't be because they want to cash in on the gold mine of wealthy western PC WW2 flight simulation enthusiasts.

 

Well said.

 

At this point I do wonder if the people in the know look at this thread and laugh at all our deliberations and debates now that they know what the future holds

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

IAlso I really don't think they care about expanding their horizons or growing their business by catering to the wishes of westerners.

That's probably true although Jason already mentioned his interest to move on to the PTO someday.

 

The thing is all future eastern front scenarios will be basicly the same as we have now, just with a slight shift in balance. Better 109s vs better Yaks, better 190s vs better La-5s. Sure, there're still some interesting types to come like the Hs-129, Do-217, IL-2 M3 and Tu-2, but it will mainly be another big clash of fighters.

 

With the game engine being unable to recreate large tank battles I wonder about the sense behind a Kursk scenario, which besides that has little to offer.

Edited June 4, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Picchio]

After a few pages I have to say that I could appreciate Kuban, geographically at least. But I still can't see their future choice of theatre to be as determining for the fortune of the series as a lot of you guys seem to make it...

I'm eager to know what the team has in mind, and what has planned.

[Brano]

At the end,people will eat what will be served 

[Juri_JS]

We can consider ourselves lucky when there will be a new scenario at all. It's a miracle that 1c hasn't already pulled the plug in view of  the meagre sales figures.

[Feathered_IV]

Seriously Feathered, you are a little genius in some of your thoughts and ideas for SP, and now this gem.

 

Feathered IV aka. Lavochkin-da-vinci!

 

Aw stoppet... you're embarrassing me 

 

Seriously though, vote #1 for F_IV  

[pilotpierre]

We can consider ourselves lucky when there will be a new scenario at all. It's a miracle that 1c hasn't already pulled the plug in view of  the meagre sales figures.

Meagre - really?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I wouldn't call them meagre or even below expectations. Flight Sims are a tough business, and for them to rack up thousands of sales (33,960 only for BoS according to Steam) is actually pretty good.

 

Their average play time is better than Il-2 1946, as are their number of players in the last two weeks. It's a new series that is still maturing, but it's certainly on the right track.

[Juri_JS]

I wouldn't call them meagre or even below expectations. Flight Sims are a tough business, and for them to rack up thousands of sales (33,960 only for BoS according to Steam) is actually pretty good.

 

I really hope the bosses at 1c see it the same way when they compare development costs and profits of BoS/BoM.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I'm no insider or economist but I would risk a guess that yes.

 

For reference, the forums here have 30,000 more people than the ED forums which have been up for a decade or so, and which cater for a much older product. DCS is considered a successful product by most commercial means, so while forum members aren't exactly science they show that there are active users here.

 

Two things are worth noting: Battle of Stalingrad/Moscow both have relatively high price points both in $/€/£ and in Eastern Europe, up there with things like the newest EA releases, so each purchase is significant. Also, in the current market the USD/EUR/GBP/etc. to RUB exchange rate make values in those currencies more valuable to them than in the West. For example, $50 for a basic edition is five Big Mac meals in Stockholm, but twelve in Moscow, and that applies to the costs of running the company.

 

But anyway, that's OT

Edited June 4, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[pilotpierre]

It would be interesting to know the breakdown of purchases for Russia, Europe, Asia including Aust & NZ and the Americas & Canada.

[DD_Arthur]

But anyway, that's OT

 

No Lucas.  If this game is a normal commercial product then it has everything to do with what the devs should release next.  

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

It would be interesting to know the breakdown of purchases for Russia, Europe, Asia including Aust & NZ and the Americas & Canada.

What we know so far:

20% Russian, 20% American, 60% the other 194 countries in the world from Australia to Zimbabwe through Brazil and Ukraine.

[Asgar]

i feel like there are a lot of Germans too. but might just be because they all play when i do :D

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

You also have to keep in mind they sold a 10$ russia only versions of BoS so the income from the russian market porbably is significantly below the compareable ammount of % of the western market.

 

Without going to deep into maketing discussions I don't think they find themself in a financily critical situation atm since it has been said that after Moscow release more development time for bugfixing and a new theatre would be availabel.

Edited June 4, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[DD_Arthur]

Are there any reliable figures available for sales?  Steam figures are useful but can we make any judgements about overall sales from the information available on this forum? 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

No Lucas.  If this game is a normal commercial product then it has everything to do with what the devs should release next.  

 

Well, yes and no.

 

I work with marketing, and while the ultimate goal of a business is to sell its products to people, that is not what decides the nature of the product in most good companies.

 

A good company will make a product they are 1. passionate about, 2. know they can do well and 3. is financially viable. Once they have most details down, they run the concept through Marketing and Sales to find out how this new product can be sold and packaged to the audience they want to reach. Here, a good company doesn't want to reach 'everyone' in the market because that's impossible and dilutes the product, instead they pick a specific audience within the market and sell the product in a way that will be irresistible to the specific smaller audience they are targeting. That way you have a good product, and while you target less people you do it so well that the majority of those you targeted will buy into your idea.

 

Every company I worked for which tried to do everything to please everyone went down because of that. I'd say Cliffs of Dover suffered the fate it did because Oleg and Ilya had built such a grandiose vision based on so much customer input and dreaming that they went beyond the financial and time constraints of a small team. Had they built Cliffs of Dover in parts like 1C:GS is doing, releasing features bit by bit, they might have still been around. However that's only the financial aspect - they were passionate about ultimate perfection, so perhaps doing this the slow way would have 'turned them off' and ultimately resulted in failure as well. You need all three (passion, skill, cost-effectiveness) to work well.

 

5tuka, those numbers aren't the full story. The CD version of BoS is available even in Sweden for $20 at any GameSpot in the country, with map and all that, and the same goes for most of Europe. In Russia in particular, you can find the game anywhere from $4 to $27, with differences in the campaign and so on. Also, keep in mind that games in Russia are generally very cheap. I bought DCS: Ka-50 for $10 less than a year after the release for example, and the same goes for Il-2:1946, Flaming Cliffs and Flaming Cliffs 2.

i feel like there are a lot of Germans too. but might just be because they all play when i do :D

 

I'm inclined to say Germans are the third major players of this game, if not second. Any time you play between 1000 and 2200 UTC and hit TAB you will only find Russians and Germans

[707shap_Srbin]

It would be interesting to know the breakdown of purchases for Russia, Europe, Asia including Aust & NZ and the Americas & Canada.

From my memory, as was sounded by Devs during Goblin's interveiw:

 

19% of Il-2 BoS/BoM owners are from USA

18,5 % are from Germany

~17% are from Russia+Belarus+ukraina

~10% are from France + Belgium + Spain

~15% are from UK + Italy

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thanks Panzerbar so about 60,5% from 9 European countries, 19% USA and only 20,5% for the rest of the world including 42 European countries and 40 North American that didn't go in the mix.

[DD_Arthur]

So no surprises here; approximate sales are 20% north America, 45% EU countries, 20% Russian/eastern Europe and 15% rest of world.  Do we have any idea of overall sales at all? 

 

As a comparison UbiSoft sold over 900,000 copies on disc of Oleg's IL2 in all it's different versions between 2001 and 2008.  Add to this sales by 1C over the same period in the east and we're looking at well over a million copies sold overall.

[Juri_JS]

Do we have any idea of overall sales at all? 

 

The number of forum members are a good indication, because you automatically become a forum member when you create the account you need to play the game.

[unreasonable]

Unfortunately you also become a forum member when you have kitchen furniture, health wonder drugs or fake passports to sell. 

 

Anyone looking at the forum membership numbers should probably exclude all the accounts with just one post.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Those get banned though.

[Livai]

Found it! Here we can take a look what the Devs maybe study what they maybe choose for the next chapter.....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1nUIMMViCE

Edited June 4, 2016 by Superghostboy

[Gambit21]

What we know so far:

20% Russian, 20% American, 60% the other 194 countries in the world from Australia to Zimbabwe through Brazil and Ukraine.

 

I wonder what percentage our ANZAC friends make up?

Most of them will want PTO as much as we do.