Great P38 video

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

Interesting to see the "lag" between yoke movement and actual response from the plane

 

[Dakpilot]

Nice vid, thanks 

 

I have said it many times before, but i think the amount of sensitivity people have on there joysticks goes a long way to explain many of the complaints in BoS  A/C control

 

I was amazed the first time I flew with very experienced Russian factory test pilots, for a similar situation they would be putting about 500 percent more inputs than I was, constantly anticipating, adjusting and countering forces, was a good learning experience.

 

If you set up curves in old IL-2 the way Test Pilot Eric Brown developed, to give realistic Spitfire handling (and I guess he should know  ) it felt more like a DC-3 (comparatively) than the Pitts Special reactions most have set up, (also by default)

 

Of course in MP you would be at a bit of a disadvantage against others, the only answer is to have 'fixed values' but with all the different devices this is an impossibility, and a dedicated 'one type joystick functionality' would be financial suicide

 

sorry for wildly off topic ramble...

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[5th-GIAP_Sytov]

That was a nice video ! Thanks for sharing..

[69th_chuter]

I believe:

 

The "lag" you're seeing is pronounced by the fact that the P-38 has a lot of ... roll inertia.  The two engines etc.* weigh about 5833.2 lbs. (not counting the weight of the booms/fins or wings, main gear, fuel ...) and are 8 feet off of the centerline giving a roll moment of 46,657.6 ft/lbs.  By comparison P-47D with full load of ammo (451 lbs) and 1000 lb bombs picks up 25,350 ft/lbs of additional roll inertia just from those two weapons.  As I've mentioned here before, I believe axis inertia isn't modeled in BoS/BoM nor have I seen it modeled in any other flight simulator, but others have disputed this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* The weight under consideration:  2730 lbs, engine accessories 321.3 lbs, props 827 lbs, starting systems 82.3 lbs, cooling systems 1065 lbs supercharging system 613.5 pounds lubricating system 194.1 lbs,

[Sunde]

I fly gliders in my spare time, and certainly do not encounter any real delay between my movements, and the aircraft response. However the gliders i fly weigh around 250kg. Quite different from the war machines seen here. Also have had abit of time in a Piper comanche, no delay there either.  

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

I believe:

 

The "lag" you're seeing is pronounced by the fact that the P-38 has a lot of ... roll inertia.  The two engines etc.* weigh about 5833.2 lbs. (not counting the weight of the booms/fins or wings, main gear, fuel ...) and are 8 feet off of the centerline giving a roll moment of 46,657.6 ft/lbs.  By comparison P-47D with full load of ammo (451 lbs) and 1000 lb bombs picks up 25,350 ft/lbs of additional roll inertia just from those two weapons.  As I've mentioned here before, I believe axis inertia isn't modeled in BoS/BoM nor have I seen it modeled in any other flight simulator, but others have disputed this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* The weight under consideration:  2730 lbs, engine accessories 321.3 lbs, props 827 lbs, starting systems 82.3 lbs, cooling systems 1065 lbs supercharging system 613.5 pounds lubricating system 194.1 lbs,

Wow very interesting, so you are saying that due to the added weight of the engines etc, there is a delay when the ailerons actually have effect on rolling the aircraft? 

Oh and sorry, OP great vid, its a very beautiful aircraft and the sound on the flyby are almost soothing .  I want a p-38...

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

NIce video, even though I'm not really a P-38 fan. Thx for sharing.

 

Abou the sensitivity / "lag" discussion, this "lag" is caused by mass inertia + likely controll cable flexation. It is certainly not suprising that the P-38 has plenty due to it's engines and fuel tanks being located in the wings.

 

There's also a lot of confusion about "sensetivity" ingame. This is a faulty term for a nonlinearity, means a modification of your input curve. That has nothing to do with lag, input delay whatsoever but will mean that instead of increasing linear with your real joystick input the ingame output curve will rise exponentially like a parabola (very flat in the low input range, very steep in the high input range). Setting this too high is a serious handicap in critical situations like landing or manouvering when high physical joystick inputs with high accurancy are required.

 

The setting you probably referr to is "noise filter" which is basicly a delay in the execution of physical joystick input, for example if you yank the stick full left in 1 sec it will take longer to do the same ingame.

 

That has nothing to do with FMs and can't compensate for flaws in them. One example being the Bf-109 F-2 and F-4, which feel comparably light and have the ability to make crazy movements with rapid joystick inputs.

Edited May 27, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Nothing to contribute but I find this a very interesting topic. The play in the controls we're the first thing I noticed in the video. But I also watched his face. There was no sign of constraint or wrestling with the controls. Meaning? He has flown this plane to the point he's confortable with its controls.

 

Chief

[69th_chuter]

From America's hundred Thousand by Frances Dean:

 

"As an example, however, of how 1944 service and test pilots rated the P-38L in maneuverability: Of 28 flight evaluators only two rated it good, ten said fair, while the others gave it a poor rating.  The P-38 was a large heavy fighter not suited for quick "snap" or "slam-bang" maneuvers, and had a particularly slow initial response in a roll due to a high lateral inertia characteristic.  The problem was a slow start into a roll and thus an inability to switch quickly from one attitude to another, as in reversing from a turn in one direction to one in another.  As one pilot said "It was disconcerting to have a fighter barreling in on you, crank the wheel over hard, and just have the P-38 sit there.  Then, after it slowly rolled the first five or ten degrees of bank it would turn quickly, but the hesitation was sweat-producing".  Many combat losses, particularly in North Africa, were attributed to this creaky initial rate of roll.  Another pilot noted "The first ten degrees of bank came very slow".  Power boosted ailerons, introduced at the same time as dive recovery flaps, gave the P-38 pilot a lot more "muscle" to improve roll characteristics at high speeds, but did nothing to improve them at low and moderate speeds where maximum roll performance was dependent only on full aileron deflection instead of pilot effort.  The P-38, particularly in early versions, could not roll into a dive fast enough to catch enemy aircraft diving down and away to evade, as in a split-S maneuver."

 

The part about there being no improvement in roll at lower speeds may not be entirely correct (though the difference wouldn't be too much different).  I believe the unpowered (manual) ailerons were differential, 25 degrees up, 20 degrees down as a way to neutralize adverse yaw (plane rolling left while nose yaws right) while the boosted ailerons were symmetrical, 25 degrees up and down, but now the pilot had to use a fair amount of rudder with the ailerons to keep the nose centered during the roll (and the rudders were fairly heavy).  The slightly more aileron deflection would yield a pinch more roll at all speeds.

 

Another example of roll inertia effects would be the 109 20mm gun pods.  They only effect speed by about 5mph but the 109 had reduced aileron travel (dependent on pilot strength) at higher speeds (~350mph) which reduced overall roll performance at those higher speeds.  Adding the weight on the wings gives the 109 an additional 7,125 ft/lbs of rolling moment to overcome at all speeds and made the poor roll at higher speed even worse.  The aerodynamic shape on either side of the yaw axis reduced directional stability a tad, as well.  So, the 109 with gun pods should have a bit more sluggish aileron response with gun pods, but nowhere near the sluggishness of multi-engine aircraft.