"So how do I land this?!" - a small tutorial on landing your aircraft

[Sternjaeger]

So full throttle/Vmax on downwind at treetop (10mt?), then a big slip turn and land? When would they open lower flaps and landing gear? 

Edited November 23, 2013 by Sternjaeger

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I believe this post is for pilots attempting to perfect their landings not for experten attempting to avoid marauding hordes of Mustangs or Yaks at the edge of their home strip.

[Furio]

Returning on topic, visual references could be of help during the landing pattern.

To ensure you’re flying a steady downwind, find a visual reference on the map at the correct distance from the runway centreline (half runway length, according to Stern). Fly over that point at the right altitude, than look left: where is the wing tip in relation with the runway? Is it sliding just below the nearest edge? Is it on runway centreline? Is it on the farthest edge? Wherever it is, keep it there.

 

From now on, you’ll need only to read altimeter and take a look at wingtip to have the correct distance from any runway.

 

Then, look again at the map. Find a reference point on the ground more or less at the right distance from the beginning of the runway (half runway length, again according to Stern). Fly the distance at constant speed counting how many seconds it takes. Got the trick?

 

It’s easy. Enter downwind at the right altitude (around 300 m./1,000 feet). Place the wingtip at the correct point. When you reach the beginning of the runway, begin to count. When you reach the correct time, turn left 90°, and you’re in a perfect base.

No need for tricks for final turn. The runway itself is a perfect reference.

 

Overall, it may look a little mechanical, but everything helps at the beginning.

[Crump]

 

So full throttle/Vmax on downwind at treetop (10mt?), then a big slip turn and land? When would they open lower flaps and landing gear? 

 

They would do it on the turn to final.

 

BTW, the film of that guy flying Skydivers is normal ops for most DZ pilots.

[Furio]

Saying it with a smile, could we leave aside a discussion about “normal” operations by professional pilots and extreme operations during wartime by military pilots?

 

                                                                                                                        

 

We are flying a sim, here, in Alpha test.

Most of us have no experience with real life, high performance taildraggers, all of us never flew in combat during WWII, so any help is welcome, I think, and the thread is useful, I believe.

Thank you all!

[Furio]

There’s another thread discussing runway length. Lapino is the shortest runway on the map, and I’m wondering if 777 placed all us noob there with a purpose.

 

 

Seriously, as several people had difficulty in stopping before runway’s end, it could be an idea to talk a little about speeds, particularly the best speed during final leg, of course.

[andyw248]

200 km/h on short final seemed to work best for me. Started the flare over the fence, and then it was all about progressively pulling back that stick, making sure that the wheels would not touch the ground, and the airplane would not climb away from the runway. Touchdown speed maybe 170 km/h.

[Furio]

200 km/h on short final seemed to work best for me. Started the flare over the fence, and then it was all about progressively pulling back that stick, making sure that the wheels would not touch the ground, and the airplane would not climb away from the runway. Touchdown speed maybe 170 km/h.

 

The same speed worked fine for me, even if I thought it was a little on the fast side.

 

To go a step further, I borrowed Stern’s drawing and added just numbers in key positions.

 

 

So, you are keeping 200 kph after turn at number 3 position, beginning to reduce throttle at number 4, down to 170 at touch down (more or less).

What speed do you keep at 1 and 2? And where do you lower the gear and flaps?

Edited November 25, 2013 by Furio

[I/JG27_Rollo]

What speed do you keep at 1 and 2? And where do you lower the gear and flaps?

What worked for me so far is ~250 km/h, gear down + half flaps at 1, reducing speed to ~220 between 2 and 3, full flaps from 3 to 4.

[andyw248]

Gear down at 1 just as Rollo did, reduced speed to about 230 km/h between 1 and 2, arrived at ~220 between 2 and 3 (again like Rollo), added full flaps after 3 which reduced speed to ~200. MP would have been just above 30 mm/hg from 1 through 3, then reduce to just below 30 mm for the final approach, and gradually lower upon flare.

[Wolger]

Why there is an extra control for tailwheel lock? I thought pulling the stick will lock the tailwheel in conventional taildraggers and WW2 warbirds.

[mazex]

Even though it may sound weird, another advice from an old IRL pilot is that you should try to control the speed with the stick and the rate of decent with the throttle... Try it out, it makes it a lot easier when you get the hang of that! It helps you to not come in too fast and get problems with the flare.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Thinking of the jump plane video, I landed Madera (California... MEA) for a fuel stop coming home from San Diego and watched the sky diving operation there for a bit.

 

I think they do what they do partially to protect the sky divers and partly because they make money taking people up, dropping them off and getting back down again as quickly as possible.

 

As the divers were in free fall, the jump plane was doing 360s around them in a near vertical bank until their chutes deployed.  It was much easier to see the plane doing that stuff than it was to see the divers alone.  He was also very good about announcing positions.  That seems universal: I was over the Sierras by Lake Almanor and high enough to be hearing a jump operation out on the coast and that woman made lots of good "jumpers away" calls and it was funny because she always sounded clam and professional and in the background you could hear people screaming and cheering.  She must have made that call 4 or 5 times in the 15 minutes I listened, so she was doing some pretty extreme stuff to get that many cycles in.

 

Once the chutes were out, the jump plane peeled off and made an expeditious landing - not as dramatic as the video, but he wasn't wasting time either.  I chatted with the pilot at the pumps and commented that I noticed he got the door closed before landing. He explained that when he was established in the turn, the jump door/step was balanced so that he stomp on the rudder and close the door, then he just had to reach over (reach up?) and latch it. 

[Furio]

Even though it may sound weird, another advice from an old IRL pilot is that you should try to control the speed with the stick and the rate of decent with the throttle... Try it out, it makes it a lot easier when you get the hang of that! It helps you to not come in too fast and get problems with the flare.

It’s not weird at all. I remember doing ILS approach with a SIAI 205, an unspectacular performer but very stable four-seater. After properly trimming it at 80 knots, it was easy to fly the entire approach with throttle only.

[DD_bongodriver]

I guess we have to be weary talking about our real life flying experience as some have already advised we shouldn't  , but just my 2cents, nothing wrong with controlling descent with power, it is the norman technique for piston engine aircraft, the point and power technique is really for jets.

[AndyJWest]

...it is the norman technique for piston engine aircraft...

 Did the Anglo-Saxons do it differently, Bongo? 

[Matt]

Why there is an extra control for tailwheel lock? I thought pulling the stick will lock the tailwheel in conventional taildraggers and WW2 warbirds.

The 109 has a seperate tailwheel lock mechanism. Not sure about the other planes in BoS (i'm not even sure if every one of those had tailwheel lock).

[DD_bongodriver]

 Did the Anglo-Saxons do it differently, Bongo? 

 

Good spot, yes the Anglo Saxons had a much more brutal method with no refinement.

[AndyJWest]

King Harold is informed that the Norman Air Force has been sighted:

[DD_bongodriver]

It's ok though, the channel will protect them.

[Sternjaeger]

all good Quax, only two tiny remarks: 1) don't lift the port wing or the wind will blow you out of alignment 2) you need to align your aircraft to the runway once you're flaring. Watching this video really shows what an amazing work they've done with physics! 

[Volkoff]

Ok, I think I am getting better at this, but I am still not great at landing the LaGG-3.   MJ

 

http://youtube/EoHJAzctxVY

Edited November 27, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'm the odd man out. I'm nailing the LaGG landings and struggling with the 109. 

[Georgio]

Love it, wasn't that the first record of Halley's comet on the tapesty as well?

 

King Harold is informed that the Norman Air Force has been sighted:

[Sternjaeger]

you can make your own here 

 

http://bayeux.datensalat.net/

[Rigsby]

@Sternjaeger -  Can I ask if that is a pilot hat you have on your head? Whatever it is, I wouldn't be able to fly with that painted on my head like that, doesn't it put you of?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Rigsby

[Karost]

For BF-109 Cross wind landing (alph version)

1)  open flap 20 degree to slow down speed between 300 - 250
2)  at speed 250 gear down.  keep speed bet ween 250-220
3)  open flap to 40 degree keep glinding speed at 220
4)  for cross wind I keep my nose plane at left side of runway when meet at runway before cross  head of runway
     gentle pull head up for tree point landing at speed 200 but take long time to speed drop at 180 for
     touchdown ( gentle row rpm can help but cution for altermeter drop too fast )

# when no seed bar show ,the altermeter at runway is 150 meter from sea level  so at the final I forget about this point.
# there is no narrow gear effect,  between bf109 and LaGG3 which look very close characteristic when touch down.

 

  Edited December 4, 2013 by Karost

[Gort]

@Sternjaeger -  Can I ask if that is a pilot hat you have on your head? Whatever it is, I wouldn't be able to fly with that painted on my head like that, doesn't it put you of?

It's the horns sticking out of the sides and top of his head that gives me pause...

[Sternjaeger]

lol it's only an Oakley baseball cap, but turned the other way around ('cos I'm a kool kid like that  ).

 

I prefer this setup than leather flying helmets, as it gets very hot without a roof on your head, and this sort of cap allows for a better perspiration, and being elasticated makes it quite comfortable too.

 

As for the horns, those specific ones are something I wish I could wear more often 

Edited December 4, 2013 by Sternjaeger

[DD_bongodriver]

Ha....pony tail.....  ........I kill me.

[Sternjaeger]

Ha....pony tail.....  ........I kill me.

 

hahahaha! 

[Rigsby]

For BF-109 Cross wind landing (alph version)

1)  open flap 20 degree to slow down speed between 300 - 250

2)  at speed 250 gear down.  keep speed bet ween 250-220

3)  open flap to 40 degree keep glinding speed at 220

4)  for cross wind I keep my nose plane at left side of runway when meet at runway before cross  head of runway

     gentle pull head up for tree point landing at speed 200 but take long time to speed drop at 180 for

     touchdown ( gentle row rpm can help but cution for altermeter drop too fast )

 

# when no seed bar show ,the altermeter at runway is 150 meter from sea level  so at the final I forget about this point.

# there is no narrow gear effect,  between bf109 and LaGG3 which look very close characteristic when touch down.

 

 

 

This is okey, but you obviously realize you are over shooting the run. Has anyone got a video that doesn't over shoot the runway or is it normal to do this under such conditions?