Surprised to see Cliffs of Dover FMs very good considering the age

[neofightr2]

On a whim I bought Cliffs of Dover on the cheap. I was amazed at how detailed and sophisticated the flight models of that game were considering it's over 5 years old.

 

I can tell the same engine is being used for the newest iterations (with obvious interface and graphical enhancements).

 

I really hope the devs can revisit the allied planes and reintroduce them at some point down the road. I really hope the pacific theater gets developed at some point.

 

 

To the devs: I have to say out of all the dedicated flight sims I have played over the past few decades, the IL2 engine has technically been the most impressive I have ever seen. DCS comes a close second. 

 

I absolutely love the attention to detail of the cockpits and also the sound. I am so impressed with the sound especially when you view the front of the aircraft vs. the tail. I can tell you guys really did your homework.

 

Flybys are so spot on with the aerodynamics and wells as the stall behaviors. I have spent hours just flying the landing pattern in BofS and CofD and reminiscing of my times spent in naval training of the t34c.

 

Just really good stuff.

 

As a side note I also really hope the dev team can come out with a Rise of Flight 2 especially as we are finally seeing a resurgence of interest in WWI in the gaming world. I would love to see ROF get the upgraded graphics and interface.

[SharpeXB]

IL-2 BoS and BoM actually use a completely different game engine than IL-2 Cliffs of Dover.

BoS and BoM use the same engine as Rise of Flight, "Digital Nature" although with many improvements.

Edited May 15, 2016 by SharpeXB

[6./ZG26_Emil]

If you like to fly on rails CLOD is awesome the FM is easy, ground handling is ridiculous but the graphics are nice.

[neofightr2]

If you like to fly on rails CLOD is awesome the FM is easy, ground handling is ridiculous but the graphics are nice.

Not sure what mode you were playing but at maxed realism settings I was having a challenge landing the A/Cs with lots of rudder input. Sure BoS has more fidelity but CoD is still respectable.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Not sure what mode you were playing but at maxed realism settings I was having a challenge landing the A/Cs with lots of rudder input. Sure BoS has more fidelity but CoD is still respectable.

 

They have modes?

 

I flew online ATAG for hundreds of hours

 

Did I mention the spitfires that can lop de loop at 8000m?

[Capt_Stubing]

On a whim I bought Cliffs of Dover on the cheap. I was amazed at how detailed and sophisticated the flight models of that game were considering it's over 5 years old.

 

I can tell the same engine is being used for the newest iterations (with obvious interface and graphical enhancements).

 

I really hope the devs can revisit the allied planes and reintroduce them at some point down the road. I really hope the pacific theater gets developed at some point.

 

 

To the devs: I have to say out of all the dedicated flight sims I have played over the past few decades, the IL2 engine has technically been the most impressive I have ever seen. DCS comes a close second. 

 

I absolutely love the attention to detail of the cockpits and also the sound. I am so impressed with the sound especially when you view the front of the aircraft vs. the tail. I can tell you guys really did your homework.

 

Flybys are so spot on with the aerodynamics and wells as the stall behaviors. I have spent hours just flying the landing pattern in BofS and CofD and reminiscing of my times spent in naval training of the t34c.

 

Just really good stuff.

 

As a side note I also really hope the dev team can come out with a Rise of Flight 2 especially as we are finally seeing a resurgence of interest in WWI in the gaming world. I would love to see ROF get the upgraded graphics and interface.

Did you fly the Team Fusion Version?

[No601_Swallow]

The issue with CloD isn't the FMs (until I tried BoS, the FMs seemed perfectly respectable) or the visuals (the cockpits are works of art, the maps considerably less so). It's the fact that fundamentally the game was broken and incomplete, with many many features unfunctional or perfunctory. It's the absolute epitome of frustrating.

 

Team Fusion have done absolute miracles getting the game to the point where it can be flown, but they seem to have been unable to fix the deep-down broken stuff, which is an absolute tragedy.

[Stig]

Clod, BoS/ BoM, DCS ; all of them get a lot of things right, none of them get everything right. Which is 'best' is imo. a matter of personal preference.  

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Considering the age and that they have been reworked by non payed developers they're reasonably sound but as other pointed out no sim has nailed it totally (which would be impossible to judge even if they did due to virtual/physical limitations).

 

Some things are fishy like the excessive nose heavyness of some aircraft during landing and takeoff and stall chracteristics which combined with the overdone head shake somewhat limits the immersion. Not even going to touch ground handling and the bug with planes wandering around while engine is turned off.

 

From a pure operative point Clod is probably better than BoS due to more detailed aircraft systems and sound modeling.

Edited May 16, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Lusekofte]

I find COD more realistic and more demanding than BOS, it got consequences mistreat the engine. The damage models are way more complex and realistic. 

I am not flying it right now because I am a little fed up, but I regard the fliers there more dedicated in % than here. 

I like the feeling of flight this game got, this is only something you experience close to stall in a bomber in COD, but other than that I deem COD better in all aspects

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I find COD more realistic and more demanding than BOS, it got consequences mistreat the engine. The damage models are way more complex and realistic. 

I am not flying it right now because I am a little fed up, but I regard the fliers there more dedicated in % than here. 

I like the feeling of flight this game got, this is only something you experience close to stall in a bomber in COD, but other than that I deem COD better in all aspects

 

Nah.

[Lusekofte]

Nah.

 

 

You know the thing about opinion, can't be measured by facts or any scientific gadgets they just excist. But the fact is, I am a bit fed up with COD and I like some events in BOS so I understand your taste and choise. But seriously COD had much higher ambitions and it shows in so many levels

[Willy__]

 

 

I find COD more realistic and more demanding than BOS, it got consequences mistreat the engine. The damage models are way more complex and realistic. 

 

Honestly, most of the aircrafts shot down result from a busted radiator, either by fire from the enemy or incorrect engine management. In that department, BoS is light years ahead of CloD. 

[neofightr2]

Yeah the game is buggy and imperfect on many fronts but sometimes it still amazes.

 

Last night I finally started playing the campaign. I got shot at by a rear gunner and when I looked at the external view of my hurricane I saw a stream of oil trailing my plane. I have seen smoke many times sure, but a stream of oil? It put a silly grin on my face. My engine promptly died within a minute but I survived a crash landing.

 

Then on a return to base on another mission I decided to taxi back to the hangars, I just couldn't believe the level of detail the devs went to. I saw off in the distance in the grass field a collection of chairs and a briefing board. Fuel trucks driving along on the side, sure one of them was a little buggy with it's pathfinding but damn they went that far in portraying base ops. Another thing thing that impressed me was an AI pilot actually taxiing back to the hangars and parking in the building while another parked outside. numerous A/C circling overhead waiting for their turn to land. Really awesome stuff for a game made 5 years ago.

 

It's a damn shame the product was so buggy, many thanks to the ATAG modders for keeping the game alive. 

 

 

I haven't had a chance to play the BoS campaign yet because I want to enjoy CoD (bugs and all) first but I really hope they have improved on this detail with the new engine. Really great stuff. I have a much greater respect of the IL2 devs now and will be a lifetime consumer of their products from now on. I will be buying the premium moscow version as soon as I can.

 

I always enjoy supporting devs that go the extra mile with detail. I hope these current products are a big success for them and hope they cover the pacific theater soon.

Edited May 17, 2016 by neostar

[neofightr2]

Did you fly the Team Fusion Version?

Yes, I think that's the version. I had to download their numerous patches. If it wasn't for them, I would have lost 10 bucks on a broken game for windows 10.

Edited May 17, 2016 by neostar

[Lusekofte]

Honestly, most of the aircrafts shot down result from a busted radiator, either by fire from the enemy or incorrect engine management. In that department, BoS is light years ahead of CloD. 

 

 

You cannot be serious, you can lower your undercarriage at 700 + kph in BOS . 

You have absolutely no idea what you talk about. The 109 E4 had rads interconnected on both wings and was really very bad in this way. The damage model in COD is pipe by pipe hit boxes and is way ahead of BOS. The engine management actually make sense in COD , but in BOS it is more of a manicure.

You can argue how you like things, but give credibility where it is due.

In COD you need to hit the full pipe or control wires and is unique in this compared to all flightsims today this way. The modeled damage actually looks damage while in this game they occur like low pixel black holes. 

There is many things I like with BOS , but just do not even try to tell me damage model is better in this game, because that is bollox 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Clod engine menagment is not ahead compared to BOS one. In Clod mixture do not work , you have to press only two buttons to start engine... where in Bos just one. Prop, throttle and rads are modeled in both sims.

Edited May 18, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[Lusekofte]

In my opinion the prop pitch and faulty use of it in BOS do not have a consequent , same goes for mixture, you simply should not be able to fly with full ritch at high altitude. The only thing mixture does in this game is saving some fuel.

Mixture is modelled in COD , but it is one of the buggy codes TF has not been able to crack so far. Anyway opinions are divided about witch is better and will in most cases not be altered have a pleasant evening 

[Sokol1]

LuseKofte,

 

My 0,02$ - Abandon these "My BoS is better than your CloD and vice versa" useless discussions". 

[DD_Arthur]

LuseKofte,

 

My 0,02$ - Abandon these "My BoS is better than your CloD and vice versa" useless discussions". 

 

Good advice.

[BlackBadger]

Honestly, most of the aircrafts shot down result from a busted radiator, either by fire from the enemy or incorrect engine management. In that department, BoS is light years ahead of CloD. 

 

they must measure light years differently where you're from... both games are good at some aspects and bad at others. Pretending that BoS is so much more advanced is just wishful thinking. I get frustrated playing both games for different reasons.

[Trooper117]

I have both, I enjoy both... 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

Pretending that BoS is so much more advanced is just wishful thinking.

 

-snip-

 

When we're talking about damage physics and fine-systems modeling, nobody is "pretending" that BOS is more advanced - there's really no need to   - no, I can't flip a single switch in the pit and I don't need to but the fact of the matter is is that BOS' damage model is just as granular, if not moreso, than what Cliffs can offer. The physics behind the BOS DM is light years ahead of Cliffs' where there is no convincing physics-based DM at all.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Space_Ghost

[BlackBadger]

Look, crashes and physical collisions are great, no doubt. Bar the occasional airplane landing on another airplane. But damage model when considering guns is really not that great, no matter how many smug winky faces you'll put in your sentences.

 

Damage model from guns in Cliffs is a bit porked (visuals damage decals not always appearing as they should, flaming spits in SP vs fireproof spits in MP, etc.), though I understand it will be revised in the future. But even i can see there is a system behind it. Every single bullet is calculated through all the surfaces it has to pass, the angle is considered etc. BoS damage model is more satisfying to look at - the first 5 minutes, but then it starts to feel more random and arcade-y.

I mostly fly 109's in Bos/Bom (spits in cod). Never ever in BoS/BoM have I been on the receiving end of an MG burst that wouldn't cause damage. Cause that surprisingly happened quite often in combat. Everytime you get hit you get some sort of critical system hit with a sexy smoke streak to accompany it. It just feels arcade-y sometimes.  I'd love to see a hybrid of the 2 DM's, let them meet somewhere in the middle, that would be the ideal DM. 

 

Who knows when the wobblyfix patch comes along and I get to spend more time in singleplayer I'll have plenty of time to reconsider, for now these are my impressions. Btw If it seems I'm dissing this BoM/BoS... believe I'm not. I bought both BoS/BoM games and I intend to play them when I have the time. But I'd like to play a reasonably polished game. Currently this is still not the case, but thank god it's coming closer with every release. I know things will get fixed over time... it's just... terrible that we have to wait so long and keep banging on about things to make them happen. 

 

Exhibit A

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/18999-any-chance-we-can-bring-back-16x-time-accel/page-2?hl=+time%20+compression

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12138-time-compression-above-2x-ever-coming-back/page-2

 

And then finally after 2 years we suddenly get it back.

 

rant over

[Lusekofte]

What about just arguing about the advantages and disadvantages. 

The fact that I constantly involve myself in these less informative debates is misleading information.

The reason I fly BOS and BOM today more than COD is the fact I am a bit fed up with COD, mostly because COD did not have a real contender. 

Subjective opinions is really not helping, I perfectly understand people "liking" BOS better or do not "like" COD. But that do not mean COD is bad.

Oleg had huge ambitions when he started this project, and it shows in all sides of the build. When he showed pictures of IL 2 models for BOM I was completely in ecstasy.

This complexity of his vision was maybe ahead of the technology available in 2006, it took years to get that game published, and when it did it was so buggy.

But TF have made it playable, If you dive and do not mend your prop pitch you get hurt, (not so in BOS) if you are going too fast you aint going to get the under carriage up until you slow down again (not so in BOS) and I can go on and on. I am not saying BOS is bad, it is simply aimed at a broader public and miss out on the community available to them already.

BOS is builde like this aiming for a non experienced simulator pilot with no equipment at hand. And for people who have invested money and time to get this equipment and experience BOS simply wont cut it alone. Luckily we got FNBF and SNBF making a huge effort to simulate realistic squad flying. We got a lot of servers making wrgame advanced and very satisfying. We got a very good living and breathing community making this a game for all. Same goes for COD. I hope DCS got better infrastructure for WW2 war-games also. Good and many choices will bring more people into this genre. More people means better marked and competition. 

If this will happened I think 777 will do well, despite my opinion on how they should have made this game, that have managed to get new players into the genre, they have done a huge favor for the community.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Wait till patch 5 

[Lusekofte]

You mean Team Fusion 5.0 . I think that patch win me over for a month or two. I long for flying the Wellington 

[Cloyd]

When we're talking about damage physics and fine-systems modeling, nobody is "pretending" that BOS is more advanced - there's really no need to   - no, I can't flip a single switch in the pit and I don't need to but the fact of the matter is is that BOS' damage model is just as granular, if not moreso, than what Cliffs can offer. The physics behind the BOS DM is light years ahead of Cliffs' where there is no convincing physics-based DM at all.

Speaking from a position of authority again SG? Please do tell us more about the physics behind each sim engine, and how you know that.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I hope TF 5.0 will fix quite a lot of bugs and crashes that evetually kept me from really getting into this sim. As I sayed the FMs are dated but it still feels quite believeble overall.

 

New planes are interesting, too, but not if the base game remains as buggy as it furrently is.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Speaking from a position of authority again SG? Please do tell us more about the physics behind each sim engine, and how you know that.

 

You don't know what an "argument from authority" is so please quit wasting my time. 

[Field-Ops]

In my opinion the prop pitch and faulty use of it in BOS do not have a consequent , same goes for mixture, you simply should not be able to fly with full ritch at high altitude. The only thing mixture does in this game is saving some fuel.

Mixture is modelled in COD , but it is one of the buggy codes TF has not been able to crack so far. Anyway opinions are divided about witch is better and will in most cases not be altered have a pleasant evening 

 

Tell that to my insta-dead P-40 when going 20% prop pitch after take off causing over-rev.

[3instein]

One thing I do like in Clod better than BoS is the view out to the horizon.

 

When flying up high, looking out across the Channel towards France it's pretty amazing, it's the only sim ever to give me that sense of scale and distance.

 

Mick.

[Lusekofte]

Overall, I think cod is the better game compared to this. 

[Original_Uwe]

Agreed.

[LLv24_Zami]

Overall, I think cod is the better game

compared to this.

Disagree.

 

But let's be happy we have both available

[ACG_Invictus]

Honestly, most of the aircrafts shot down result from a busted radiator, either by fire from the enemy or incorrect engine management. In that department, BoS is light years ahead of CloD. 

 

Really?  

 

Hmmm....let's check that claim out....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdUu__v_rI4

Yep.  Rad failure.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nktiJnKJFA

Bingo....another radiator failure which caused the tail to fall off this plane.  How boring!

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtqo1BunGXg

Jeez....Istruba is dead on correct YET AGAIN.  Clearly the wing fell off this plane due to a radiator failure.  ASTOUNDING!

 

 

I'd be happy to produce MANY more examples if you'd like.  Or feel free to check out videos from JG4_Karaya, GrooveBiscuit or others to see more examples of CLoD "radiator kills".  

 

I grant you that rad kills may not be unusual for Spitfire or Hurricane pilots, but if you fly German and you can only get kills from putting a hole in someone's radiator....YOU ARE DOIN' IT WRONG.

 

Just sayin' dude...

 

Edited July 2, 2016 by ATAG_Invictus

[ACG_Invictus]

But let's be happy we have both available

 

Completely agree!  

[Lusekofte]

I did not do my statement against BOS, it was just my personal experience after flying both a long time. Both being developed and a lot of subjective opinions, also from my side. I like however the gear collapse happening now when taxiing, it showes the path of BOS is heading where I am wanting for it. Too me it is not a competition just a observation.

Hoping for the best for both games

[BraveSirRobin]

Overall, I think cod is the better game compared to this.

 

Overall, I didn't bother to load CoD on my new PC. Just an observation.

[LLv24_Zami]

I did not do my statement against BOS, it was just my personal experience after flying both a long time. Both being developed and a lot of subjective opinions, also from my side. I like however the gear collapse happening now when taxiing, it showes the path of BOS is heading where I am wanting for it. Too me it is not a competition just a observation.

Hoping for the best for both games

I did not take your statement as against BoS. As said, opinions and tastes differ.

 

It`s just richness that we have these two games. There`s not going to be Battle of Britain in BoS. I`m glad that is covered in Clod. Both are good already and will be better in future.