BOM VVS Fighter modifications - Which were rare/common?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I could do with some help

 

Out of the Mig-3, I-16 and P-40 which of the modifications available in game were commonly used and which are very rare? For example I've read that there were 300 Migs fitted with 20mm cannons yet that 'reliable website' Wikipedia states only 72.

 

Any help would be appreciated I don't have time to research at the moment

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Most of all MiG-3s had the default armament. A distant second were the UBK pods, though those were usually removed for lack of resources early on and later because they porked the aircraft's performance. The UBS and ShVAK were only available in small numbers, and both were only installed close to the end of MiG-3 production. Those were likely to be found in 1942 and 1943.

 

The P-40 usually had two guns removed due to weight, so the six-gun version was rarer than the modification as far as I know.

 

The I-16 touted both ShVAK and all-ShKAS armament regularly during the Moscow campaign. The special windshield was a rarity, and it was installed in an insignificantly small scale.

 

All carried bombs and rockets regularly.

Edited May 3, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Thanks Lucas!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

On the MiG-3 question, M. Tessatori's great page says 315 were fitted with the UBS set from September until the end of 1941, while little over 50 received the ShVAK.

[Brano]

MiG-3 production and volumes according armament variants

1x12.7mm BS + 2x7,62 mm ShKAS = 1976 pcs

1x12.7mm BS + 2x7,62 mm ShKAS + 2x12,7mm BK (in underwing gondolas)= 821 pcs

2x12,7mm UBS = 100 pcs + 215 pcs with additional underwing racks for 3xRO-82 launchers for RS-82 unguided rocket

2x20mm ShVAK = 52pcs (those were in fact aircrafts produced in small series after evacuation of Nr.1 Factory from Moscow in October 41 to Kuybyshew, inbetween dec 41 and april 42,assambled from Nr.1 factory leftovers )

 

I-16 production and volumes according armament variants

we have 2 models with unlocks.

- Standard 4xShkas is model 24 (with M-63 engine) 1100pcs (including 18 model with M-62 engine) 

- with unlocks of 2xShVAK it is model 28 (with M-63 engine) 352pcs (included model 27 with M-62 engine)

Edited May 3, 2016 by Brano

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Thanks Brano!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I was just thinking that Brano should know all of this stuff - great post!

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Ah right so those underwing gun pods aren't too rare?

Cool stuff

Edited May 3, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Brano might know better but I read somewhere that those were most common in early versions and often removed in the field. You could still see them though

[Brano]

Original I-200/MiG-1 and early MiG-3 series (cca oct40-april41) had 2x ShKAS and 1x BS as standard with 4 bomb fixing points up to 220kg total. From April 1941,the real mass series were upgunned with 2x BK in gunpods under wings reducing bomb fixings to 2. Most common loadout was 2x100kg FAB bomb with an interesting option we dont have in game....white phosphorus bombs VAP-6 

I can dig out more details if you are interested,but in general gunpods were quite common. 2xShVAKs are real rarity and I would not use them on server depicting Operation Typhoon.

 

As for P-40 E model....well...it just was not there for Typhoon   Might be an option for april 42 Rzhev-Vyazma offensive (last chapter in game campaign),but it is such an odd aircraft for that time period as MC 202 for Stalingrad. 126.IAP used Kitties from april 42 at Moscow PVO. So if you decide to do some late april map with solo Ju88 as recce over Moscow,you can place a bunch of Kitties at Vnukovo AF. I bet they will never catch that junkers 

[Turban]

Talking about the Mig 3 BK pods, Anyone has the data for how much speed loss it created ? Right now it's 30+ kph, which is comparable to the 850kg huge Anti Tank Pods on the Stuka which just seems odd 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I'm pretty clueless on these matters but here's a guess - drag increases with speed. Considering the maximum speed of approx. 630 km/h the MiG-3 can achieve in game, the addition of bulky pods under the wings is likely to have a pretty terrible impact. You're still making a good 600km/h though so it's nothing to complain about. By that logic I would also assume that the speed loss is less dramatic at combat speeds.

[Turban]

More like 450 max speed with pods under 7000m... 

 

Logic is kind of tricky anyway, since the bigger pods on the 109 drop the speed by only 11 kph .

That why I'm asking if someone knows the actual number and where to see them.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Turban

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

See here: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/family.html

 

On January 1941, the early MiG-3 made 640 km/h on flight tests at 7000m, whereas an aircraft from a similar series plus gun pods made roughly 600 km/h accounting for more or less 40 km/h less.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Interesting thread - good information in here.

[Turban]

440 at low alt. Pretty grim.

Still I'm interested to see some other documents. The (?) after 600 makes me curious.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Turban

[Brano]

Talking about the Mig 3 BK pods, Anyone has the data for how much speed loss it created ? Right now it's 30+ kph, which is comparable to the 850kg huge Anti Tank Pods on the Stuka which just seems odd 

 If in doubt,go complain to FM part of the forum and spare us of your off topic here.

 

Back on track with more precise data to my previous post:

- BK gunpods (B for Berezin,K for kridelnyi = Berezin for use in wings) were first installed 20.2.1941. It required partial reconstruction of the wing in given area to accomodate 145 rounds of ammo.

- From 20.9.1941 aircrafts of 27th series (starting Nr.151 onwards) were equipped only with 2x BS (S for synchronnyi = synchronised). Those were the last serial fighters produced at Moscow Zavod No.1 before evacuation started on 8.10.41. With average output of 20 MiGs a day that roughly covers the time window of production of those 315 MiGs mentioned in my first post.

 

For operation Typhoon,which started 2.10.1941,we may say that almost all MiGs were allready produced. There was last ''hundred'' left to assemble till evacuation.

What makes this fighter so significant for BoM is a simple fact that it was produced directly in Moscow,tried at Khodynka AF and went to fight literally out of the factory doors. Yak fighters production was nowhere near the daily output of MiGs at that time and Saratov was far away. Same as LaGGs (planned for production in 4 different factories) where Zavod No.21 (Niznyi Novgorod) still produced ishaks model 29 when war begun,even they were supposed to produce LaGGs since several months.

 

So to sum it up for Emil and under condition he wants to have historical reality on his server within Operation Typhoon timeline

 

1. No P-40E

2. MiGs with all unlocks available with no-go for 2x ShVAK, with mix of like 60% 3-gun,30% 5-gun and 10% 2-gun platforms

3. No restrictions for Ishaks with mix around 70% ShKAS only and 30% ShVAK upgunned

[Turban]

 If in doubt,go complain to FM part of the forum and spare us of your off topic here.

 

 

Geez why being so agressive ?? I'm not complaining , I did find it funny that it compared with the Stuka AT cannon, that's all there is to it.

 

If in doubt, think for one second before you jump on someone's throat.  

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Geez why being so agressive ?? I'm not complaining , I did find it funny that it compared with the Stuka AT cannon, that's all there is to it.

 

If in doubt, think for one second before you jump on someone's throat.  

 

Wrong thread for this

 If in doubt,go complain to FM part of the forum and spare us of your off topic here.

 

Back on track with more precise data to my previous post:

- BK gunpods (B for Berezin,K for kridelnyi = Berezin for use in wings) were first installed 20.2.1941. It required partial reconstruction of the wing in given area to accomodate 145 rounds of ammo.

- From 20.9.1941 aircrafts of 27th series (starting Nr.151 onwards) were equipped only with 2x BS (S for synchronnyi = synchronised). Those were the last serial fighters produced at Moscow Zavod No.1 before evacuation started on 8.10.41. With average output of 20 MiGs a day that roughly covers the time window of production of those 315 MiGs mentioned in my first post.

 

For operation Typhoon,which started 2.10.1941,we may say that almost all MiGs were allready produced. There was last ''hundred'' left to assemble till evacuation.

What makes this fighter so significant for BoM is a simple fact that it was produced directly in Moscow,tried at Khodynka AF and went to fight literally out of the factory doors. Yak fighters production was nowhere near the daily output of MiGs at that time and Saratov was far away. Same as LaGGs (planned for production in 4 different factories) where Zavod No.21 (Niznyi Novgorod) still produced ishaks model 29 when war begun,even they were supposed to produce LaGGs since several months.

 

So to sum it up for Emil and under condition he wants to have historical reality on his server within Operation Typhoon timeline

 

1. No P-40E

2. MiGs with all unlocks available with no-go for 2x ShVAK, with mix of like 60% 3-gun,30% 5-gun and 10% 2-gun platforms

3. No restrictions for Ishaks with mix around 70% ShKAS only and 30% ShVAK upgunned

 

Great stuff and thanks to you and Lucas!

[jaydee]

Great question Emil and great responses lads.

Lets just Keep talking amongst ourselves about Emils question. .....Too often, on the the Forums, Good Topics get Hi-jacked.

~S~