Question - why is taxiing so difficult?

[Stig]

Why all these armchair sim only pilots post in this thread with such ferocity posing as they have any true experience and thus perspective to contribute on these discussions?

 

 

 

But it's not only armchair sim pilots. There are also RL pilots with experience in taildraggers that find the ground handling plausible. So what makes your viewpoint the right one? 

[wtornado]

Why all these armchair sim only pilots post in this thread with such ferocity posing as they have any true experience and thus perspective to contribute on these discussions?

 

Your contribution is only skewed and limited opinions, not any real life experiences on similar situations simulated in the game. So I respectfully suggest you vocal airchair pilots to STFU and listen the people who actually knows about these things - not throwing just uneducated opinions and videos and quotes from the web suitable for your own small box of comprehension.

 

Thank you very much.

 

I can live with the decision not to address these issues. I've already learned and adapted to game's way of mismodeled representation of features  not trying to simulated properly these things.

 

I feel sorry for newcomers and not so experienced gamers of this IL2. They will be scared away of this nasty feature not giving anyting enjoyable gaming moments in return. They will not come back. Word of mouth on the Internet will eventually drive away any potentially interested newcomers.

And that, my friends, are very very bad business. Not enough playerbase and nor enough new players causes to not have enough funding to 1CGS and you all can kiss goodbye this otherwise very promising sim and it's future. That is something what I don't want to happened. I wish this incarnation of IL-2 series will be even more glorious than what was during the era of Oleg - Be sure.

Over 80 000 members and probably most of them own one or both games with an incredibly weak online population

I would be curious to know how many BOM addons were sold vs the original BOS game.

 

They made this game with gorgeous drop dead graphics and nice FM's and aircraft.

 

A little over a year ago I figured that all the thousands of old IL-2 ''fun for all'' server pilots were going

transition to this game simply because it is the best IL-2 series game to date.

 

The servers never appeared and the pilots never came.

 

The pilots you see taking off at spawn and wreaking havoc on the hardcore servers are probably the

few pilots that flew in old  ''fun for all'' servers and had that style of playing tearing up the skies and airfields

with exactly that style of gameplay that I guess they enjoy.

 

They bought the game and are trying to have fun the way they enjoy flying I guess.

 

And you never see them write a word on these forums because it is not THEIR style of game play

that the forums write about that they enjoy.

 

I was surprised just how much hardcore online servers virtually dominated the new IL-2 server base

in the forums and on the servers.

 

I was figuring on a huge icon, normal settings player base to invade the server lists with a huge player base

 of thousands of players like the old IL-2 to finance the upcoming projects.

 

Like in Cliffs of Dover it never came 

 

Team Fusion turned Clod into a hardcore  online flyers club too and there is not much going on there online when you fly

and the game goes very well with remastered flight models and a lot of goodies coming this summer with the next huge update.

Edited May 20, 2016 by WTornado

[SharpeXB]

The problem in the game is that if aircraft can take off without risk or difficulty over any type of ground, then there's no point in having taxiways and runways. Using those just makes it take longer to get in the air. The dangers of the real world can't be simulated here. If the off road effect needs to be dialed up a bit to enforce that so be it, it's probably more realistic anyways. It's like how your engine seizes up at 1 minute of emergency power, which isn't realistic but necessary to keep players in line in a game that has no real world risks.

 

If some players want "fun for all" style gameplay they should just create servers for that. There's a "Duel and Dogfight" server with air starts and constant action if that's what you want. Some servers have an enforced gameplay style for a reason, so if you're on that server, follow the rules or don't go there.

Edited May 20, 2016 by SharpeXB

[Sokol1]

A little over a year ago I figured that all the thousands of old IL-2 ''fun for all'' server pilots were going

transition to this game simply because it is the best IL-2 series game to date.

 

The servers never appeared and the pilots never came.

 

 

Simple, these "1946 fun-for-all" find they perfect game: War Thunder, "superior FM, DM, blablabla..." mean nothing for then, this don't increase their "fun".  

Edited May 20, 2016 by Sokol1

[wtornado]

Simple, these "1946 fun-for-all" find they perfect game: War Thunder.

True enough and War Thunder is great for that. Graphics are really nice.

 

Yiou think the devs want them to buy WT stuff and not this game I hope not.

 

I play War Thunder tanks ''realistic tank battles'' mode and it is very good.

 

When they come out with the CDK editor that you can put user tanks to

create historical tank battle co-ops guess what I will be doing?

 

They are working on it as we write.

Edited May 20, 2016 by WTornado

[unreasonable]

I wonder if anyone has managed to taxi onto water, or even land on it in BoS? It can be done in RoF. 

[LLv44_Damixu]

There are plenty of settings and simplifications for newcomers in this game to make it accessible. Simplified Physics, Mouse Control etc.

You don't need to taxi, take off or land to play the campaign either if you don't want to. And that isn't required for multiplayer either. There are servers which have different difficulty settings and air-starts. The player can make this game as hard or as easy as they choose.

 

I see and already understood earlier you don't get the big picture, nevermind the single features of the sim.

I'm getting sorry even tried to shed some reasoning why the devs should pay close attention on taxiing, taking-off and landing issues commonly the players have. Not only the modeled behaviour is ahistorical and not very close what you expect the type of planes to handle, but the very danger ruining the potential customerbase in the process. 

I most certainly do not want any "easy mode" crap here. Just modeling the functionality as close as it can be taking the limits of software development in account to be plausible to the people who have the real life experience. 

 

I will not try to educate you naysayers (it's not my position to do so), because there are no words nor enough iron wire to bend in the world to make you really understand what the issues is all about here. There are so many truly knowledgeable and experienced members on this community who are disgusted and taken back of the so low level of conversation and ignorant rampage here. Go ahead and drive even these people away by these egoistic bullying (most likely due inherent feeling of inferiority and thus need to attack everyone having other opinion) in the forum some of you are doing too frequently here.

 

So a word of advice, think twice, think three times before you jump in to dive bomb your opinions on the others.

 

 

 

[wtornado]

I see and already understood earlier you don't get the big picture, nevermind the single features of the sim.

I'm getting sorry even tried to shed some reasoning why the devs should pay close attention on taxiing, taking-off and landing issues commonly the players have. Not only the modeled behaviour is ahistorical and not very close what you expect the type of planes to handle, but the very danger ruining the potential customerbase in the process. 

I most certainly do not want any "easy mode" crap here. Just modeling the functionality as close as it can be taking the limits of software development in account to be plausible to the people who have the real life experience. 

 

I will not try to educate you naysayers (it's not my position to do so), because there are no words nor enough iron wire to bend in the world to make you really understand what the issues is all about here. There are so many truly knowledgeable and experienced members on this community who are disgusted and taken back of the so low level of conversation and ignorant rampage here. Go ahead and drive even these people away by these egoistic bullying (most likely due inherent feeling of inferiority and thus need to attack everyone having other opinion) in the forum some of you are doing too frequently here.

 

So a word of advice, think twice, think three times before you jump in to dive bomb your opinions on the others.

 

 

I fly full real but if someone wants easy mod let them have it.

 

With the complex mission builder someone would have to develop a normal server with icon setting.

 

If not well to each their own.

 

He does not get it lets see if this game goes past BOM in development.

[Capt_Stubing]

Since this thread continues to be looked at so much and that the topic has changed so much... Here is my two pennies. 

 

I too would have thought we would have seen a lot more Il2 46 pilots flying online.  I think one of the bigger challenges is the fact this sim took a while to mature.  Many went over to Clod for sake of flying something new.  Thank Team Fusion for keeping Clod from disappearing all together.  At some point I know some folks just got tired of flying Clod because the plane set hasn't changed in so long and despite the incredible improvements by TF it is the same map same planes.  Enter BOS and BOM which is really a nice change and I welcome it however I think the 46 player base is pretty split up at the moment.  What is not helping is the lack of central comms.  There are a few populated servers most of which don't speak English so it seems everyone is on their own TeamSpeak.   Also both of these sims don't have a lot of variety either in terms of planes maps and era. 

 

I don't think we will see the likes of 46 until there is more variety.  I hope this series catches on and there is more development in the future.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Good examples. I was wondering about islands in the Pacific too. All of those aircraft I saw there in the Alaska film have nose wheels though, P-38s & Aerocobras for example. A tail wheel plane would be apt to nose over hitting the water like that.

P40s operated in the same conditions.

 

[Edited]

Edited May 21, 2016 by Bearcat

[SharpeXB]

Not only the modeled behaviour is ahistorical and not very close what you expect the type of planes to handle,

 

So if you think there is something specific about the handling of one of these aircraft that you can quantify with correct protocol, then submit it by PM to Han on the 1CGS team and include all your supporting data. You will be doing them a favor.

 

But the constant complaining on the forum goes nowhere in these matters.

  The only thing you care about is being punitive to those that don't play the way that you want them to,

Well those rules are really up to the server admins and if they don't care I won't either.

 I too would have thought we would have seen a lot more Il2 46 pilots flying online.

Honestly I don't think any sim of this genre will succeed in prying many of those players away from that game. There's no way for a current flight sim to match the level of content they've become accustomed to, the hundreds of aircraft etc.

The best path forwards is to simply attract new customers. There are millions of those out there.

[wtornado]

 

 

Honestly I don't think any sim of this genre will succeed in prying many of those players away from that game. There's no way for a current flight sim to match the level of content they've become accustomed to, the hundreds of aircraft etc. The best path forwards is to simply attract new customers. There are millions of those out there.

 

 

Millions of customers? Man you really are living in your own perfect little dream world.

[SharpeXB]

Millions of customers? Man you really are living in your own perfect little dream world.

About half of all US adults play video games.

33% of American males between the age of 18-29 identify themselves as "gamers"

Steam shows War Thunder has 5 million players.

So yeah that's millions

[wtornado]

About half of all US adults play video games.

33% of American males between the age of 18-29 identify themselves as "gamers"

Steam shows War Thunder has 5 million players.

So yeah that's millions

War Thunder is free and about 4 million of them in WT are about the average age of 13 years of age..It is free.

 

When I play WT realistic tank battles with the tier tanks I am grinding for do you honestly think I am going to pay

for something when then give it to me for free for grinding and having fun in the process? I love free!

 

I have been playing World of tanks for free for 5 years now and I bought a few 5$ premium tanks at 50% off to

make credits to finance my tier 8,9,10 battles. I love free.

 

You think 1CGS would want to give me a FREE P-40 because I played 50 missions too?

Edited May 20, 2016 by WTornado

[SharpeXB]

War Thunder is free and about 4 million of them in WT are about the average age of 13 years of age..It is free.

Ok that's still millions of people. And yes it's free but the median hours spent in the game is 5 hours. So those "players" are actually playing. DCS World is free too and has 600,000 players, but the median time is 3 minutes.

Rise of Flight used to be a paid game but now it's F2P. Maybe this game changes over time too?

Oh but if you win a free plane playing the game? Horror! That a scandalous "unlock"...

[BlitzPig_EL]

You are dreaming if you think that millions of players will play any one combat flight simulation.

You might have a million playing all of them, maybe.

 

Do you really think that new players will flock to this title in the millions?

 

if so, it would have happened already.

 

My god man, we barely have a few hundred playing multiplayer.

 

Once us old timers are gone it's over.

[sport02]

for Bos it's a different market even if you have few online players

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Talk about off-topic, but...

 

 

 

Once us old timers are gone it's over.

 

 

I don't think younger people are any less inclined to take a crack at flight simming than the older crowd.  It's just that back in 2001 a guy who wasn't into flight simming likely wouldn't play any games at all, whereas now a guy who isn't interested in flight simming might still play arcade battles in War Thunder.  Really, not playing video games at all and playing War Thunder arcade are about the same as far as relation to our type of CFS goes.

 

In fact, younger people demonstrate all the time that they have an appetite for complex and demanding gaming.  Look at Paradox Interactive, who make hugely complex historical political games:  They're experiencing the best sales of their existence by a long shot.  The REAL issue is the amount of money you have to lay out JUST for IL-2 before you even really get into it.  $130 American dollars for a nice HOTAS,  $150 more for TrackIR(2x/3x that if you live outside the US and have the pleasure of being extorted by local distributors) .

 

Now that other headtracker type gear is coming onto the wider market(not just the "Dad Games" market) with Oculus Rift and others, we should see an influx of new blood who are halfway equipped and so less turned off by the initial cost to get through the door.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Silas

[wtornado]

Talk about off-topic, but...

 

 

 

 

I don't think younger people are any less inclined to take a crack at flight simming than the older crowd.  It's just that back in 2001 a guy who wasn't into flight simming likely wouldn't play any games at all, whereas now a guy who isn't interested in flight simming might still play arcade battles in War Thunder.  Really, not playing video games at all and playing War Thunder arcade are about the same as far as relation to our type of CFS goes.

 

In fact, younger people demonstrate all the time that they have an appetite for complex and demanding gaming.  Look at Paradox Interactive, who make hugely complex historical political games:  They're experiencing the best sales of their existence by a long shot.  The REAL issue is the amount of money you have to lay out JUST for IL-2 before you even really get into it.  $130 American dollars for a nice HOTAS,  $150 more for TrackIR(2x/3x that if you live outside the US and have the pleasure of being extorted by local distributors) .

 

Now that other headtracker type gear is coming onto the wider market(not just the "Dad Games" market) with Oculus Rift and others, we should see an influx of new blood who are halfway equipped and so less turned off by the initial cost to get through the door.

I do not know what it is like elsewhere for the younger generation.I am in Canada and my two sons are in their 20' and they grew up with consoles.

The first one they got was the Nintendo 64 many moons ago and now they play the XBOX one and have all the other consoles before that.

The oldest one even collects the old N64 games and has since he was a little boy.

 

When I play with them I am in FPS games and only FPS games because that is what they grew up with and are still playing today on their computers and

consoles.

 

I tried to get them interested in the IL-2 series games and other flight sims but they are not interested at all.

 

The only game i can get them interested  to play is ARMA 3 and that is because they have a machine gun and infantry weapons.

 

In game I fly the birds.

[seafireliv]

 

 

Once us old timers are gone it's over.

 

I disagree, although I understand your reasoning as today`s society has been greatly dumbed down when it comes to games and simulations. There will always be a demographic that wants to see how it really was as close as could be over the pop-corn eating crowd. Those who really want to know beyond reading history books, and they`ll pay for it too - And they will be young as well.

[SharpeXB]

I just turned my ten year old nephew on to DCS. He tried it (Flaming Cliffs) and was hooked. I showed him DCS because the modern stuff appealed to him more I figured and it's free. Next I'll show him IL-2

 Once us old timers are gone it's over.

Of course that's not true. If it was there would be no point in 1CGS making these games.

[LLv44_Damixu]

I just turned my ten year old nephew on to DCS. He tried it (Flaming Cliffs) and was hooked. I showed him DCS because the modern stuff appealed to him more I figured and it's free. Next I'll show him IL-2

 

Of course that's not true. If it was there would be no point in 1CGS making these games.

 

Please restrain yourself urge to post on the forums with the nonsense you do. We do not need your gamer twisted lashes on this forum. Thank you very much..

Edited May 21, 2016 by LLv32_Damixu

[Stig]

Please restrain yourself urge to post on the forums with the nonsense you do. We do not need your gamer twisted lashes on this forum. Thank you very much..

 

[SharpeXB]

Please restrain yourself urge to post on the forums with the nonsense you do. We do not need your gamer twisted lashes on this forum. Thank you very much..

Everybody gets to post here. Especially Founders.

Edited May 21, 2016 by SharpeXB

[LLv44_Damixu]

Everybody gets to post here. Especially Founders.

 

And you are founder of what exactly? Buying 30 dollars more of package of a software suddenly qualifies you to know it all. 

 

edit: I still recommend you to take more non-agressive route to contribute (hopefully solutions) to threads here. Nobody knows it all. Let us all contribute what we have and give high quality insight to the developers as input to fine tune the simulation. 

I, personally, do not have any desire to have any quarrel with anybody. On the contrary, I wish to gain some new friends here on the long run...

Edited May 21, 2016 by LLv32_Damixu

[wtornado]

I want someone else to try this because I just past 1 hour doing it with the same results.

 

Over and over taxiing is easy and take-off is easy.

 

With the LA-5 I tried everything to taxi at low speed or at a higher speed and brakes that always results

in a ground loop.

 

Until I have discovered that the LA-5 has ''sweet spots'' ground taxiing and taking parameters

 

When taxiing to start just push the throttle forward and when the plane is moving adjust throttle

to 15% and it stays straight you just use the rudder to turn and you do not even need brakes.

 

If the runway is long and straight enough you can make yourself a coffee warming up your

engine taxiing to the other end.

 

Try any other adjustment or gas/speed/brake setting and it ground loops for me  I just spent 1 hour and tried them all.

 

Now for take-off the ''sweet spot'' applies to this too when I want to get airborne.I tried brakes with slow/medium/faster

throttle adjusts combined it with braking and a bunch of hair raising experiments that ended in ground loops.

 

Then the ''sweet spot ''revealed itself to me.

 

You are ready to take-off you just slap the throttle at 70% and let the plane accelerate and once you get enough speed up

bring up the tail and with a little more speed you are in the air.Once again you can get coffee if the runway is long the plane

stays straight.

 

Why does plane behave like this? We must ask the airchair Aerospace  engineers why!

[SharpeXB]

And you are founder of what exactly?

 

A Founder of this game. I was one of the first who put up the Pre-Order funding at the start back in 2013. Rather ludicrous of you to tell me I can't post here.

[SKG51_robtek]

As ludicrous as thinking that being a Founder makes one something special?

But then, everybody has the right to believe in something, even I believed what was told pre-beta.

 

Btt, it would be great to know the "sweet spots" for all planes for a hassle free taxiing.

[LLv44_Damixu]

A Founder of this game. I was one of the first who put up the Pre-Order funding at the start back in 2013. Rather ludicrous of you to tell me I can't post here.

 

So your claim of premium qualification is that you managed to purchase the beta software early on. I appreciate that on displaying the commitment on the sim. I wish I've done that so early. Now, nevertheless I am committed as all the other "high rollers" to enable/pursue stellar success of this sim.

Once more I would like to re-phrase: Don't write off genuine issues of the simulated ways of the game. Don't disrespect the people who actually knows how the simulated function should work in real life. Don't be disrespectful. Period.

[LukeFF]

It's at the point in threads like this why I'm glad I have a social life away from my computer and the internet.

[SharpeXB]

Don't be disrespectful. Period.

Uhhh whatever...

Please restrain yourself urge to post on the forums with the nonsense you do. We do not need your gamer twisted lashes on this forum. Thank you very much..

On most discussion sites it's rather a faux pas to tell other people not to post there. Edited May 22, 2016 by SharpeXB

[Rjel]

Who claimed that being a founder made them special? Sharpe, like a lot of us, ponied up while others waited on the fence to see how BoS turned out. Then others just waited for the next sale for whatever reason. A couple of other posters in this thread have elevated the tension in this forum, once again by their posting style. Personally, I could care less how hotshot a couple you claim to be as real life pilots. If you can't post respectfully, without being antagonistic, get lost.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Rjel

[SharpeXB]

Who claimed that being a founder made them special?

I didn't say it makes me special. But it cartainly means I get to post on the forum just like everyone else.

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

This thread is derailing fast at this point!

Lets keep everything that is NOT about the difficulties taxiing and weird ground behaviour in PM's and separate threads please.

 

Everybody is entitled to post in threads but stay on topic and refrain from personal BS toward seach other. If we have different opinions just agree that we have different opinions because just communicating via text and not hearing nuances in voice or seeing face expressions makes it difficult.

 

I for one am really interested in getting ground handling correct and even though I'm not a RL pilot or aviation engineer I want this sim to be as realistic as possible but I also know it's a game and that our PC's perhaps cannot do all that we want, yet that is.

 

But making it as real as possible is perhaps not the same as making it as HARD as possible! We don't have the feeling of "our pants" in a chair in front of a monitor. Also we can't feel the prop-wash effects on the air frame. But as a former navy officer and engineer that has studied war history and collected books, schematics and authentic films of primarily WWII aviation I "feel" the handling to be "strange" in this regards when comparing the footage of planes taxiing on tarmac, grass or forest roads.

 

It spins to easily, It "turns to the left" whatever I try sometimes as an example. So since we all love this sim or game or whatever you choose to call it lets work together and try to make it even better.

[SKG51_robtek]

This thread is derailing fast at this point!

Lets keep everything that is NOT about the difficulties taxiing and weird ground behaviour in PM's and separate threads please.

 

Everybody is entitled to post in threads but stay on topic and refrain from personal BS toward seach other. If we have different opinions just agree that we have different opinions because just communicating via text and not hearing nuances in voice or seeing face expressions makes it difficult.

 

I for one am really interested in getting ground handling correct and even though I'm not a RL pilot or aviation engineer I want this sim to be as realistic as possible but I also know it's a game and that our PC's perhaps cannot do all that we want, yet that is.

 

But making it as real as possible is perhaps not the same as making it as HARD as possible! We don't have the feeling of "our pants" in a chair in front of a monitor. Also we can't feel the prop-wash effects on the air frame. But as a former navy officer and engineer that has studied war history and collected books, schematics and authentic films of primarily WWII aviation I "feel" the handling to be "strange" in this regards when comparing the footage of planes taxiing on tarmac, grass or forest roads.

 

It spins to easily, It "turns to the left" whatever I try sometimes as an example. So since we all love this sim or game or whatever you choose to call it lets work together and try to make it even better.

As long as such glaring defiencies are answered in the Form of "suck it up and learn to taxi" those threads will always derail sooner or later.

To improve something first it must be realized that improvement is necessary.

Saying all is well, i'll take what i have and find a way around the problem is not helping to improve!

[Stig]

If you read the thread you will quickly notice that the 'glaring defiencies' are a matter of opinion. Some RL pilots think the taxiing is unrealisticly hard while other RL pilots think that is realistic.   

[SKG51_robtek]

If you read the thread you will quickly notice that the 'glaring defiencies' are a matter of opinion. Some RL pilots think the taxiing is unrealisticly hard while other RL pilots think that is realistic.

 

Sorry, but starting to spin during slow taxiing despite opposite rudder and braking the opposite wheel is a glaring defiency!

[Asgar]

wow...people are still on this pointless discussion...all that time you wasted that could've been used to learn how to taxi 

[KoN_]

Just slow taxi all aircraft are easy too taxi if taken slow , drop the flaps and use  20% power + , Take your time . Only unlock tail wheel when turning sharp , As already pointed out .

The biggest one is the snow , i see lots of ground loops when in winter maps when the taxi way and runway meet ..!! , IMHO i think the taxi ways are too small and seem off putting when taxiing . 

[SKG51_robtek]

I have no problems taxiing most of the time, I only have problems with, imo, dumb and not helpful posts.