How do YOU fly the P-40.....not an FM discussion.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

So, I had an Fw discussion along similar lines about a month ago. It was a really good read until it was eventually derailed by a particular troll and the usual FM suspects. Lots of good info up until then and a good place for people to get some insight before trying their hand at it.

 

I'm thinking of trying the P-40. What are YOU doing to have success in this Ac as it is CURRENTLY MODELED. Please refrain from discussing its engine modeling or FM. I'd like to know what you are doing technically and tactically with it, particularly online.

 

I'm hoping this tread will be as informative as my last one before it goes off the rails around page four or five (asI expect it will). Try to contain yourselves until then

Edited April 24, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'm fighting with it right now (single player only) and doing ok with it.

 

I'm finding I need speed and altitude going into the battle. If I have enough altitude to work with I can use that, drop the nose, gain some speed and execute some short turns to get me on target. If I overdo the rudder then I find the P-40 tends to literally fall out of the sky (You can see the AI doing this all the time). I'm starting to compensate better for those movements and my gunnery is getting better in this too which is certainly helping my combat effectiveness.

 

One thing is for sure... Whatever is in front of the P-40 will melt. Four machine guns, six machine guns, it almost doesn't matter so long as you get a few solid hits.

[Venturi]

The P-40E-1.... currently....

 

Strengths:

**-Good dive characteristics - top diving airspeed, good acceleration in the dive, good dive stability and elevator authority

**-Good turn speed at high airspeeds and rolls well at all airspeeds

**-Excellent firepower

**-Decent top speed

 

Weaknesses:

**-Poor horizontal stability, so it can and WILL go into a near unrecoverable spin if manhandled, even with some speed

**-VERY poor climbrate

**-Average to poor acceleration

-Rapid loss of speed with any horizontal maneuvers

-Engine blows up in a minute or two of "combat" power

 

**=Historically accurate

[Monostripezebra]

I have to agree with venturi, dive.. dive and dive. The longer the dive, the more you get out of the P40s good side.

 

that beeing said, it is still a bit of a mule, the less weight one puts on it, the livelier it gets. Setting a notch of "Input device noise filter" in the Settings helps, too.

 

I´ve said that before, but again: look at how it handles at less weight..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdFeEa-EG8

[CSW_Hot_Dog]

6 times .50 with extra ammo, no more than 40% off fuel for start. Never ever use combat power or emergency unless you are in combat. Really, even on Take off, stay under 2600RPM and 39.5 manifold. You will need whole long runway and flaps for take off, you will need eternity to climb somewhere, but YOU WILL NEED EVERY SINGLE SECOND OF COMBAT (EMERGENCY) POWER FOR COMBAT. When you are in combat, close radiator little bit now, full RPM, full throttle and you have one of the best fighter in the game, really one of the best, but only for minute or two. So spray everything with those .50, they are much better than anything else on soviet side and you have more ammo, than any other soviet fighter - so spray bullets, you have to take every chance to hit somethink during this short period of time, when you are superior or equeal to your opponent. After this, RUN AWAY. If you add something like altitude advantage or team work, P-40 is really more than usable...

 

Yeah, and do it as low as possible... Higher and higher alt = more and more inferior plane

Edited April 24, 2016 by Hot_Dog

[BlitzPig_EL]

Are you saying that normal take off power should not be used at all?

 

What kind of madness is this?

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

Are you saying that normal take off power should not be used at all?

 

What kind of madness is this?

Runways are long enough to allow for it.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Not the point. In reality TO power could be used without issue.

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

Not the point. In reality TO power could be used without issue.

Yeah, but ingame you use 30 seconds to 1 minute of your <5 minutes of WEP/Combat Power

Edited April 24, 2016 by RoflSeal

[BlitzPig_EL]

Really?

 

Well I guess I'll wait to purchase BoM then until this nonsense gets sorted.

 

Thanks though.

[Wulf]

Hey, hey easy eeeeeeeezeeeeee now everyone.  Let's just chill-out.   I really don't like the 'tone' of this thread.  Be chill or the man shut you down.

 

I don't like the tone of your post.

 

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Violations of this rule will result in the following:
 
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Edited April 25, 2016 by Bearcat

[Monostripezebra]

Yeah, but ingame you use 30 seconds to 1 minute of your <5 minutes of WEP/Combat Power

 

doesn´t that timer gets re-set when you fly on nominal?

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

doesn´t that timer gets re-set when you fly on nominal?

I personally have never seen a reset.

[Monostripezebra]

but have you confirmed that "time lowered by takeoff" thing somehow empirically? I think some systematical may be in order.. as I can hardly imagine that it is completly different on the P40 then on the other planes?

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

but have you confirmed that "time lowered by takeoff" thing somehow empirically? I think some systematical may be in order.. as I can hardly imagine that it is completly different on the P40 then on the other planes?

I don't know what you mean? Take off power (46.2"Hg) triggers the "War Emergency Power" setting (which happens when RPM is greater then 2800RPM or MP is >44"Hg ), so obviously that starts the count down timer.

 

The P-40 can't even reach its pre/early war limits, a seen by tests done a few months ago.

 

 

 

Real life "War Emergency Power" 50"+ @3000rpm        

WEP time exceeded 2:00

Combat time exceeded 3:20

Engine damage ~3:40

 

 

Real life "Military Power" 45"@3000rpm

WEP time exceeded 2:15

Combat time exceeded 3:15 

Engine damage ~4:05

 

 

1942 "Take off Power" 45"@2800rpm (Climb at 160mph as per manual)

WEP time exceeded 3:20

Combat time exceeded 3:25

 

 

Stalingrad autumn

 

 

 

 

First Test I did was at 43.9 inches and 3000, the highest Setting I found in any Document, showed as "Emergency Mode"

After 3:20 Minutes Message "Combat Mode Time Exceeded"

After 5:00 Minutes Message "Emergency Mode Exceeded"

After 5:30 Minutes Severe Engine Damage and Seizure. 

 

Second Test was 43.9 Inches at 2800, ingame setting "Combat Mode"

After 3:20 Minutes Message "Combat Mode Time Exceeded"

After 7:30 Minutes Engine Damage and Seizure occured. 

 

Third and Most Fun Test 57 inches at 3000 "Emergency Mode"

After 2:00 Minutes Message "Emergency Mode Time Exceeded"

After 2:30 Minutes Engine Damage and Seizure

 

Apparently Combat Mode never lasts much longer than 3 Minutes, but is very flexible.

In general Combat Mode time seems too short, but anyways, it is quite weird not having a long term Raised Power setting.

 

 

 

and just today

Edited April 25, 2016 by RoflSeal

[LukeFF]

 

 

HerrMurf' timestamp='1461467157' post='352544'] I'm hoping this tread will be as informative as my last one before it goes off the rails around page four or five (asI expect it will).

 

Well, I see it didn't even take one page to jump the tracks. 

[216th_Xenos]

Hot_Dog did a good summary of the p40 save the power for when it's really needed.

 

I personally don't have trouble getting on someones 6 in it. However I cannot do deflection shots. Anybody got any suggestions on gunnery with it?

Edited April 25, 2016 by 55IAP_Xenos

[Lusekofte]

I personally fly this bloody thing like I fly other fighters, I fly it until a Luftwaffe pilot sneak up behind me and shoot me down

[Flynco]

in the video posted above by Dr_zeebra the P-40 looks like a V8 Harrier 'Tiaaa .... (I'm a bad boy have been banned by the administrator because I said a bad word sob)

[Brano]

When flying in cold weather (winter) it is almost impossible to keep the engine warm at "continuous" regime. I undercooled my Allison yesterday and it seized at least desirable moment= in the middle of dogfight when I was about to deploy the tactic I'm best at...running hooome

 

Otherwise I do it like it was allready mentioned. 40% fuel max, outer Browning's removed and save precious "combat/emergency" regime for those few moments I'm able to position myself into smtg remotely resembling a firing solution :D

[BlitzPig_EL]

Knowing the aircraft's limits is part of flying it, is that not correct Luke?

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

Well, I see it didn't even take one page to jump the tracks. 

Explain how I derailed the thread...

 

Someone asked why they should not use Take-off power for take-off

I said because it used 30 seconds of your trickle of emergency power.

*Posts proof*

 

You are the one trying to derail the thread with your concern trolling.

 

Best way to use power in the P-40 is actually never to use greater then 2600RPM.

That pretty much 1.5-2x increases your time of WEP/CP. (3 min WEP, 6 min CP warning)

You produce less power, but meh, you are already underpowered.

Edited April 25, 2016 by RoflSeal

[Brano]

I take off with every lever rammed fully forward :D

I should try Leaning mixture a bit in winter,maybe it could help to keep engine a bit warmer. I tend to keep it at full rich,maybe autorich is much wiser.

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

I take off with every lever rammed fully forward :D

I should try Leaning mixture a bit in winter,maybe it could help to keep engine a bit warmer. I tend to keep it at full rich,maybe autorich is much wiser.

I don't know why you would run the aircraft in full rich.

 

Manual states only engage full rich if your engine is detonating or engine is running rough (i.e. symptom of failure of the automatic mixture control aneroid/diaphragm)

 

Mechanical failures aren't modelled in this game except when your exceed the power timer (where you can't do anything after that anyway)

Edited April 25, 2016 by RoflSeal

[Brano]

I don't know why you would run the aircraft in full rich.

 

I don't know either :D

Maybe a habit from Klimov and Shvecov engines. Thanks for confirming I do it wrong. I knew there was smtg crappy in my engine management.

[ACG_KaiLae]

When flying in cold weather (winter) it is almost impossible to keep the engine warm at "continuous" regime. I undercooled my Allison yesterday and it seized at least desirable moment= in the middle of dogfight when I was about to deploy the tactic I'm best at...running hooome

 

Otherwise I do it like it was allready mentioned. 40% fuel max, outer Browning's removed and save precious "combat/emergency" regime for those few moments I'm able to position myself into smtg remotely resembling a firing solution :D

 

Radiator setting should be very limited. Cold maps you can close the thing fully. Warm maps, like 20%. I read somewhere that the radiator is only supposed to be open on the ground anyway.

[Brano]

My outlet cowl flaps are closed all the time,thats not an issue here 

[Venturi]

Erik Shilling would recommend you use hit and run style with the P-40.

[Monostripezebra]

Erik Shilling would recommend you use hit and run style with the P-40.

 

getting the running part down,however, is the real challenging bit ;=P

[Venturi]

Edit to add, run AND dive! And use emergency power for 1 min!

[BlitzPig_EL]

Well, I broke down and have flown the thing.

 

The BoM P40 makes EL a sad EL...

 

 

It's a beautiful model, and it handles well, but sheesh, it might as well have a Lycoming 0-360 in it.

 

Now, that MC 202 on the other hand...

 

che bella machina

 

But back on topic, the P40 has a lot of positives, it's rugged, and has really good firepower, but until we get realistic engine limits, I'll be skipping it entirely.

[Brano]

Yep,kitty would definitely benefit from more "relaxed" engine limits. When rammed for higher rpm and MP it gains lots of power. I do it in combat when turning and climbing and it helps. Nevertheless I like it even in actual configuration and it is definitely fun ride when you gang up with like-minded suiciders online :D

[BlitzPig_EL]

Indeed, much like the FW 190, it NEEDS to be flown as part of a team.

[Lusekofte]

Well the power settings might be wrong, but it is the only plane in this sim that increase rpm on a dive and need tending , witch is excellent immersion . I do not know if the russian planes got something that prevent over rev the engines. 

The worst part for me in this plane is its lack of possibilities for running away , I need a escape plan if I go fighter, and if you too low for diving then it brings me to get shot down

[Trooper117]

I've just had a whole gaggle of Ju-88's engage me like fighters, couldn't outrun them, they kept with me all the way back, attacking in turn... all I could do is try to out turn them as they came in to attack.

They forced me down to the deck and damaged my P-40 little by little.

They only turned away when I got near my base... bloody crazy!

[BlitzPig_EL]

Well the power settings might be wrong, but it is the only plane in this sim that increase rpm on a dive and need tending , witch is excellent immersion .

 

It isn't immersion, it's just flat out wrong.

 

The Curtiss Electric Propeller had two modes of operation.  Standard constant speed type, which should hold the set rpm like any other constant speed prop, or manually adjustable that worked much like the German props when in manual mode.  The modes were selectable via a toggle switch on the instrument panel.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

EL, if you can find a document showing this send it via PM to Han. They adjusted the MP regulator which was wrongly added, so if you can document it, this should be fixed too.

 

Reading 'Red Star Airacobra' (E. Mariinskiy) one particular engagement there highlighted how the lend-lease aircraft there were used in a way the Soviet ones couldn't: a huge formation of Ju-87s and Hs-123s was spotted by ground control at 1500m, below the patrol. Without a thought, the six P-39s in the flight entered a 90º dive from 5000m down to 1500m, and repositioned itself. I can only image what would have happened to a Yak-1 in this dive.

[Matt]

 

 

The Curtiss Electric Propeller had two modes of operation.  Standard constant speed type, which should hold the set rpm like any other constant speed prop

 

That's how it works.

 

I think LuseKofte means the manifold pressure, which increases in a dive (and decreases in a climb). 

[Willy__]

 

 

That's how it works.   I think LuseKofte means the manifold pressure, which increases in a dive (and decreases in a climb). 

 

 

No, its RPM. It does increase on power dives when your speed start to increase too much. I dont know if its right or not, I'm just reporting what happens in the game.

[Lusekofte]

It is a RPM increase indeed, I did not know the P 40 had constant speed propeller so I stand corrected. But are you sure all of the P 40 design had it?