can you stop adding german planes. what about an Il4

[IRRE_Golgoth21]

Hi.

 

The russian bombers sets are so weak compared to the germans you propose.

 

Can you stop considering Russian planes are as creap as they don't deserve a better plane selection.

 

Why don't you have a look on a YER-2 for instance ? She made many sweeps from 1940 untill the end of the war. With a real payload (4000 kgs)

 

This will come to balance the plane sets i find definetly unbalanced so far.

 

Thank in advance considering this request.

[IRRE_Golgoth21]

About the IL4 : 

 

From http://www.aviastar.org/air/russia/il-4.php

 

One of the great bombers of the war, the Ilyushin IL-4 has not unnaturally been overshadowed in Western thinking by the great British and American aircraft, yet well over 5,000 IL-4s were produced between 1937 and 1944, the vast majority in the last three years. The original prototype of this low-wing twin-engine bomber, designated the TsKB-26, flew in 1935, was developed through the TsKB-30, and entered production in 1937 as the DB-3B (DB being a Soviet contraction denoting longrange bomber). Early examples were powered by 571kW M-85 engines, but these were replaced by 716kW M-86s in 1938. Although a tough and relatively simple design, the aircraft suffered from a poor defensive armament of single nose, dorsal and ventral 7.62mm guns, and lost heavily to such aircraft as the Bristol Bulldog, Gloster Gladiator and Fokker D.XXI during the Winter War against Finland in 1939-40. In 1939 a modified version with lengthened nose and more armour (the DB-3F) appeared, and in 1940, in conformity with changed Russian practice, the designation became IL-4 (denoting the designer, Sergei Ilyushin). Soon after the German attack on the USSR opened in 1941 it was decided to withdraw IL-4 production to newly opening plants in Siberia, at the same time replacing a large proportion of the metal structure by less strategically critical wood. IL-4s also entered service with Soviet Naval Aviation, and it was a naval- manned force of these bombers that first raided Berlin from the east on 8 August 1941. Thereafter the IL-4 paid frequent visits to the German capital and other targets in Eastern Europe. In 1944 production ended, although the IL-4 served until the end of the war and afterwards. Apart from increasing the calibre of its guns and giving it a torpedo- carrying ability, the IL-4 remained virtually unchanged between 1941 and 1944.

[Jade_Monkey]

There are as many german planes as VVS planes with the exception of the Ju52 which is AI only. So they are not "adding german planes".

 

However i agree that having more VVS bombers would be great.

[IRRE_Golgoth21]

About the Yer-2 :

 

http://www.aviastar.org/air/russia/jer-2.php

 

Designed by V. G. Yermolayev, previously a member of the design team concerned with the STAL series of aircraft, the DB-240 long-range bomber prototype was flown for the first time in June 1940. A second prototype followed in September , by which time preparations for mass production at Voronezh were in hand, but the German invasion led to evacuation of the factory in July 1941, by which time 128 examples of the DB-240 had been delivered under the designation Yermolayev Yer-2.

An all-metal mid-wing monoplane of inverted gull-wing configuration and with a twin fin-and-rudder tail unit, the Yer-2 had tail-wheel landing gear, the main units retracting into the nacelles of its two M-105 engines; accommodation was provided for a crew of four.

By the autumn of 1941 the Yer-2 was in action with two air regiments, making attacks as far distant as Berlin and Konigsberg, but the need for increased range led to experiments with AM-35 engines (April 1942 ) and a modified wing. Following tests with Charomsky diesels, a new version with ACh-30B engines was approved for production in December 1943 at the Yer-2 factory, which was then established in Siberia. Some 300 examples of the Yer-2/ACh-30B were built, forming the backbone of the Soviet long-range bombing force; they also incorporated some improvements, including a revised cockpit, a larger-calibre machine-gun in the ventral position and an enlarged bomb bay accommodating three 1000kg bombs. Maximum speed of this version was 446km/h and its range 5000km, but despite this capability most Yer-2 operations were of necessity carried out at short range on targets behind the front line.

[Jade_Monkey]

I looked up Yer-2 and looks awesome.

[IRRE_Golgoth21]

There are as many german planes as VVS planes with the exception of the Ju52 which is AI only. So they are not "adding german planes".

 

However i agree that having more VVS bombers would be great.

 

You are right. But German bombers are much more effective than the russians they chose. It's     U  N  F  A  I  R ! ! !

I love this shape :

 

[Asgar]

it's not unfair. they create representative plane sets. and the Pe-2 and IL-2 are simple most representative for the VVS bomber forces

 

 

btw. the numbers i found for the IL-4 15 in Stalingrad between August to October 42. none in early '43.  5 in Moscow march to april '43

i didn't find numbers for the Yer right now

Edited April 22, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

This is not war thunder m8

[xvii-Dietrich]

IL-2 : more than 36000 built

Pe-2 : more than 11000 built

Ju 88 : 15000 built

He 111 : 6500 built

 

IL-4 : only 1600 built

Yer 2 = less than 400 built

 

So this is really a question of representation. Also, there are an equal number of planes on both sides, so it is hardly "unfair".

 

Mind you... I'd like to see the IL-4 on both sides... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-4#/media/File:Ilyushin_Il-4_serial_DF-25_SA-kuva_148731.jpg

[6./ZG26_Emil]

The servers/missions makers can sort the balance issues out though. Give the German side much bigger targets which require large formations to destroy while the Russians have more tactical targets.

 

This is an idea I am trying to work on now where the LW gets strategic targets like destroying the Klin industrial zone (huge target!!) but the VVS are more doing airfield attacks and the like.

 

Still I think we'd all like to see an IL4 or A-20....the more planes the better! 

[Asgar]

IL-2 : more than 36000 built

Pe-2 : more than 11000 built

Ju 88 : 15000 built

He 111 : 6500 built

 

IL-4 : only 1600 built

Yer 2 = less than 400 built

 

So this is really a question of representation. Also, there are an equal number of planes on both sides, so it is hardly "unfair".

 

Mind you... I'd like to see the IL-4 on both sides... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-4#/media/File:Ilyushin_Il-4_serial_DF-25_SA-kuva_148731.jpg

seeing those numbers. I would say lets add the Yer-2 for Russia and the He 177 for Germany with Battle of Kuban

Edited April 22, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[6./ZG26_Emil]

seeing those numbers. I would say lets add the Yer-2 for Russia and the He 177 for Germany with Battle of Kuban

 

Now we're talking but can I also have some water and torpedoes pls

[IRRE_Golgoth21]

Ok, i guess, all the german fans argued. Now, can we remain serious.

 

Compare a JU88 to a PE2.... a  2000kg payload versus 1000kg... are you serious ?!

 

 

Mind you... I'd like to see the IL-4 on both sides... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-4#/media/File:Ilyushin_Il-4_serial_DF-25_SA-kuva_148731.jpg

 

They got only 4 IL4, and the fourth had been destroyed during the ferrying. They were given to the finnish, if i'm right.

 

Anyway... i now i'm unproductive because it's a fact that germans were preparing the war years before it started, maybe that's a reason why they produced so good aircrafts. Life's bitch !!!

Edited April 22, 2016 by -IRRE-golgoth21

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

If you are interested in the Il-4 and how it was really flown I'd recommend this book, now on Kindle as well.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Bomber-Pilot-Eastern-Front-Missions/dp/1844156605/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

[Jade_Monkey]

What happened tonthat Murmansk map. Did anyone pick it up after it was abandoned?

 

That one had plenty of water right?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

What happened tonthat Murmansk map. Did anyone pick it up after it was abandoned?

 

That one had plenty of water right?

 

Yeh that would have been awesome....I don't think there was any more news other than one of the main guys had to stop work on it. 

 

Personally I wouldn't mind if we got that as the next addon, P-39s and Hurricanes would be sweet 

[LukeFF]

Hi.

 

The russian bombers sets are so weak compared to the germans you propose.

 

Can you stop considering Russian planes are as creap as they don't deserve a better plane selection.

 

Why don't you have a look on a YER-2 for instance ? She made many sweeps from 1940 untill the end of the war. With a real payload (4000 kgs)

 

This will come to balance the plane sets i find definetly unbalanced so far.

 

Thank in advance considering this request.

 

Search is your friend: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/22065-request-russian-medium-bomber/

[IRRE_Golgoth21]

Search is your friend: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/22065-request-russian-medium-bomber/

 

 

love ya !

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

*yawn* 

Ok, i guess, all the german fans argued. Now, can we remain serious.

 

-snip-

 

This is why ALL of these discussions are a complete waste of time.

 

"Boohoo, whoa is me... They should add more VVS. Make duh Nuzzis go away!"

[Monostripezebra]

I´d never mind some more planes and the Il4 would very much be a reasonable addition. Maybe as extra-planepack with a german plane thrown in as well..

 

 

But I can´t really say the planeset is unbalanced... in practical play online the payload hasn´t been that much of an issue and right until the ju-88 came up I always had the impression that the russians where better equiped as il2>Stuka and the he-111 is pretty outclassed while the Pe2 is quite survivable, fast and overall a top notch medium bomber.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Dr_Zeebra

[II./JG77_Manu*]

it's a fact that germans were preparing the war years before it started, maybe that's a reason why they produced so good aircrafts.

yeah, of course, that's the only reason they produced good aircraft

what about the english then? Arguably the only nation that built aircraft (fighters) more or less equal to the Germans up until 1944. Did they also prepare for war years before 39?

Edited April 22, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[kileab]

Golgoth is right, VVS needs a heavy bomber

[CCG_bexhausted]

 

 

But German bombers are much more effective than the russians they chose. It's     U  N  F  A  I  R ! ! ! I love this shape :

 

I totaly agree with you ! I love Pe2 but ... 1000 kg payload : the same as the Bf 110 without 2 x 20 mm 

[Asgar]

you agree with him that it's "unfair" ?....maybe the two of you should start playing War Thunder, a game, which makes everything "fair" instead of a simulator, that portraits reality. and reality is: war is not fair

i guess it was fair when Germany had only the Ju-87 to compete with the IL-2 then. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[MasterBaiter]

Russian doctrine was more on attack aircrafts, not strategic bombers, get over it.

[IRRE_Golgoth21]

yeah, of course, that's the only reason they produced good aircraft

what about the english then? Arguably the only nation that built aircraft (fighters) more or less equal to the Germans up until 1944. Did they also prepare for war years before 39?

I would say you are wrong. Germans were far more experienced in aircraft design. Just remember the V1, V2 and then the ME-262 (1941).

[DD_Arthur]

 

what about the english then? Arguably the only nation that built aircraft (fighters) more or less equal to the Germans up until 1944. Did they also prepare for war years before 39?

 

Er...well yes, we did. Serious re-armament started '35-'36.  

 

I like this thread.  Makes a refreshing change for someone to accuse our Russian devs of being unfair to Russians!   

[IRRE_Golgoth21]

you agree with him that it's "unfair" ?....maybe the two of you should start playing War Thunder, a game, which makes everything "fair" instead of a simulator, that portraits reality. and reality is: war is not fair

 

i guess it was fair when Germany had only the Ju-87 to compete with the IL-2 then. 

 

Asgar... you should read more carefully :

 

 

 

Anyway... i now i'm unproductive because it's a fact that germans were preparing the war years before it started, maybe that's a reason why they produced so good aircrafts. Life's bitch !!!

 

I admit (i appreciate) that IL2 BOS tries to stick to the WW2 reality, i really enjoy IL2 BOS, even if it could be more realistic (engine start procédure for instance). But you have to admit that now there is a hole in the russian plane set (IL2 / PE2) with respect to the german one.(JU87 / ME110 / JU88) VVS realy deserve an heavy Bomber. PERIOD.

[Asgar]

Why does VVS "deserve" a heavy bomber? Germany has no heavies? Does that mean we get the He 177 in your scenario? you know, to keep it fair

[IRRE_Golgoth21]

Asgar... check on "aircrafts for dummies" a book i recommend to you :

 

JU 88 :  Max. speed    470 km/h    292 mph
            Ceiling    8200 m    26900 ft
            Range w/max.fuel    2730 km    1696 miles
            ARMAMENT    5-7 machine-guns, 2000kg of bombs

 

PE-2 : Max. speed    581 km/h    361 mph
           Cruise speed    480 km/h    298 mph
           Ceiling    8800 m    28850 ft
           Range w/max.fuel    1200 km    746 miles
           ARMAMENT    3 x 12.7mm machine-guns, 2-4 7.62mm machine-guns, 600-1000kg of bombs

 

You follow so far !!!???  Ok,so now, what about a plane that can carry twice than another ????? let me guess !?...hum ... oh, a medium/heavy bomber !!! for god sake !!!!

[Saurer]

Asgar... check on "aircrafts for dummies" a book i recommend to you :

 

JU 88 : Max. speed 470 km/h 292 mph

Ceiling 8200 m 26900 ft

Range w/max.fuel 2730 km 1696 miles

ARMAMENT 5-7 machine-guns, 2000kg of bombs

 

PE-2 : Max. speed 581 km/h 361 mph

Cruise speed 480 km/h 298 mph

Ceiling 8800 m 28850 ft

Range w/max.fuel 1200 km 746 miles

ARMAMENT 3 x 12.7mm machine-guns, 2-4 7.62mm machine-guns, 600-1000kg of bombs

 

You follow so far !!!??? Ok,so now, what about a plane that can carry twice than another ????? let me guess !?...hum ... oh, a medium/heavy bomber !!! for god sake !!!!

And the germans bloody well deserve a Me 109 G-6 with the 30mm gun, how is it fair that only fighter that can carry a big cannon is the Lagg Edited April 22, 2016 by Saurer

[Asgar]

Asgar... check on "aircrafts for dummies" a book i recommend to you :

 

JU 88 :  Max. speed    470 km/h    292 mph

            Ceiling    8200 m    26900 ft

            Range w/max.fuel    2730 km    1696 miles

            ARMAMENT    5-7 machine-guns, 2000kg of bombs

 

PE-2 : Max. speed    581 km/h    361 mph

           Cruise speed    480 km/h    298 mph

           Ceiling    8800 m    28850 ft

           Range w/max.fuel    1200 km    746 miles

           ARMAMENT    3 x 12.7mm machine-guns, 2-4 7.62mm machine-guns, 600-1000kg of bombs

 

You follow so far !!!???  Ok,so now, what about a plane that can carry twice than another ????? let me guess !?...hum ... oh, a medium/heavy bomber !!! for god sake !!!!

real classy   

 

maybe you should look into that clever book of yours...the Ju-88 is not a heavy bomber. B-17 that's a heavy bomber. Me 264, is a heavy bomber, He 177 is a heavy bomber, Pe-8 is a heavy bomber. He 111 and Ju 88 NOT

[Lusekofte]

I usually agree on topics like this , but there is one point in another argument I had about this issue making me think. German Bombers and Zerstoerers are more fragile than Russian, so in some way it is pretty much balanced.

But German side should greet a fat target welcomed I believe. And I would much like a 177, but then Russia need its DB 7 instead of a IL 4. Aheavy for a heavy I say

[Trooper117]

The DB-7 is an 'Attacker' or light bomber...however, we know we aren't going to get a four engined heavy bomber anytime in the near future, so it's all moot

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

TB-7* - DB-7 was the Boston/Havoc.

 

One thing to keep in mind also is the kind of target each air force needed to hit. Luftwaffe bombers were operating as an attacking force following an invasion and then as a retreating one. For the first part, they needed to hit more infrastructure and industrial targets. The VVS however were defending then counter-attacking, mostly within their own territory, so airfields, roads and rail traffic were premium since they hampered enemy mobility.

[Lusekofte]

TB 7 is Tupolev´s production of the PE 8 just me which miss spelled

Edited April 22, 2016 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Trooper117]

  

[Guest deleted@30725]

This irl.

 

Ohh nooo, stoopid american have apache! 

 

No fair for isis. isis need apache for balance!!

 

Damn you american team - we told you not brig abrams into war. abrams so op. read the rules nub. noo i'm america and i bring op tanks. trololololol. stupid isis with stupid rocket launchers. noobs, get better tanks.

 

Wut? No tactical nukes - hacker, report, ban for nukes. read rules nub.

[Bearcat]

This thread is silly. There are 10 allied planes and 10 German planes between BoS and BoM ... I have no idea what is nect but that isd what we have now.