190 vs yak1

[Gump]

lol...chuckle...chuckle..... cracks me up to hear folks going on about the current 190 being competitive, especially against a yak. the current 190 is not even competitive against an La5. havent tried the lagg yet. anyways, everytime i see a 190 it doesnt last long (whether i get to it 1st or some other VVS plane). the only way i see it surviving a fight is with help from a 109 or it runs with enough head start to escape. im not talking about a surprise BnZ attack that gets the 1st shot on a victim before being seen (any plane could fit that).

.

honestly, any of the uber-190-pilots that claim the current 190's 'superior' capabilities havent, apparently, been visible when i fly. i dont think it matters how good of a pilot you are with this plane - it just cant turn no matter how well the pilot manipulates the stick. any other plane can easily get out of your way and wait for you to lose energy - you are then cannon fodder. another one bites the dust. and another one's gone, and another one's gone...another one bites the dust, ....yeah....

 

..

i think it would be cool if the german side parked their 109's and all piled into the 190's! head on over to the VVS side and test your skills. show the VVS how those great 190's can fight. c'mon, dont be shy, ditch the 109's, you dont need their help. mount up that worthy FW steed, steel up you confidence, grit your teeth and aim for those red stars...

Edited April 19, 2016 by Gump

[Vade]

Nah,... it has just become like one of those series of films that drops off and gets unwatchable after a certain number of sequels.

 

Jaws 3, Alien 3, Terminator 3  etc.

 

 

 

 

(and those Star Wars ones)

Die hard 4? Or was it 5? or reloaded? 

Edited April 19, 2016 by I./JG3_Vade

[Venturi]

California time, Herr Manfred.

[Turban]

lol...chuckle...chuckle..... cracks me up to hear folks going on about the current 190 being competitive, especially against a yak. the current 190 is not even competitive against an La5. havent tried the lagg yet. anyways, everytime i see a 190 it doesnt last long (whether i get to it 1st or some other VVS plane). the only way i see it surviving a fight is with help from a 109 or it runs with enough head start to escape. im not talking about a surprise BnZ attack that gets the 1st shot on a victim before being seen (any plane could fit that).

.

honestly, any of the uber-190-pilots that claim the current 190's 'superior' capabilities havent, apparently, been visible when i fly. i dont think it matters how good of a pilot you are with this plane - it just cant turn no matter how well the pilot manipulates the stick. any other plane can easily get out of your way and wait for you to lose energy - you are then cannon fodder. another one bites the dust. and another one's gone, and another one's gone...another one bites the dust, ....yeah....

 

..

i think it would be cool if the german side parked their 109's and all piled into the 190's! head on over to the VVS side and test your skills. show the VVS how those great 190's can fight. c'mon, dont be shy, ditch the 109's, you dont need their help. mount up that worthy FW steed, steel up you confidence, grit your teeth and aim for those red stars...

 

The FW is off course competitive against the La5. What you say is just no true and purely sensationalist. As far as I can tell this month you killed 1 FW and got killed 3 times by them.

 

So clearly they are competitive. Sorry to bring the stats but you made it sound like you're a FW killer when obviously you aren't.

 

 

As to why the german side fly mostly the 109 ? Well, the 109 is easier to fly and has better performance esp. at low alt. .

 

Is that proof there is something wrong with the FW if most people fly the 109 ? No. 

 

Not only it is basically historically representative, but the 109 with high roll rate might be "stealing" even more pilots from the FW.

 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Turban

[Gump]

i would advise using caution about making conclusion based on stats....

.

1st, the stats are bugged somtimes. i know ive killed more than 1 FW (maybe on different servers?). also, i've had them disconnect before i could kill them. the stats dont record when they run from me, or when they stall/spin into the ground.

.

i dont fly 1v1 dogfight servers. when i fly, most times there are multiple other planes (usually 109's) in the air. every time a 190 has destroyed me it was because i was either already hit/disabled by a 109, or i was distracted by a 109. i may have had head-on mutual destruction incident(s) on the 'normal' server a time or two. i think a 190 'might' have beat me once on the normal server when he hit me on his 1st dive.

.

that is all honest. i used to be cautious of the 190 when in an La5. not any more (since last update). my confidence is at its highest that i will be victorious over a 190, even when they are 2 or maybe 3 strong. and it's not all that hard. no need to use a yak.

.

i also used to fly the 190 on occasion (i like the radials). ive flown it in the 'normal' servers and i get toasted a lot when i do (no sneaking up there). i fly it jabo, but that's not what we are talking about. i like a challenge (hence my La5 experience), and the new FW is WAY more challenging to fight in than the old one, or a La5.

.

i wish more germans would pilot the 190's in the big MPs (WoL, etc) instead of the 109's. if they did, i think you'd see more VVS pilots getting in fighters instead of bomber/attack. yeah, that's it...how's about making the 109's have a very limited number and filling up the AF's with 190's - let's have a go with that setup.  i wonder if the server will be populated very long?

Edited April 19, 2016 by Gump

[Willy__]

i wish more germans would pilot the 190's in the big MPs (WoL, etc) instead of the 109's.

 

Unfortunately, most of the missions in WoL either dont have the 190, or have it in very few numbers. And locking out the big bombs for the FW (250, 500kg) also do no help bringing people to fly it.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Herr_Istruba

[Wulf]

Unfortunately, most of the missions in WoL either dont have the 190, or have it in very few numbers. And locking out the big bombs for the FW (250, 500kg) also do no help bringing people to fly it.

 

 

Yeah, all of that and the 190's death-trap, widow-maker performance (right or wrong - I don't judge)  .

Edited April 20, 2016 by Wulf

[Irgendjemand]

if they did, i think you'd see more VVS pilots getting in fighters instead of bomber/attack

 

Sure. Them russians like easy prey.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Lusekofte]

Hmm, I tried all the planes after latest update, I find all of them easier to fly. What is up with that? There are less to none consequences for tight turns and slow speed. This goes for the FW 190 also.

I simply cannot understand why people claim it to be worser. I find it easier myself. I haven't taken it for a pure dogfight, but I did ground attack with it and manage to dodge two attacks and run away. At least one of them was a Yak. And I was down low. 

I simply do not go turn fights with a Yak down low, mostly because my trackIr lag at this altitude with enemy close up. But I had the feeling I could have done if that had not been the case, it might be the yak was cocky but the luxury of running away in a russian ground pounder you simply do not have 

[Irgendjemand]

Hmm, I tried all the planes after latest update, I find all of them easier to fly. What is up with that? There are less to none consequences for tight turns and slow speed. This goes for the FW 190 also.

I simply cannot understand why people claim it to be worser. I find it easier myself. I haven't taken it for a pure dogfight, but I did ground attack with it and manage to dodge two attacks and run away. At least one of them was a Yak. And I was down low. 

I simply do not go turn fights with a Yak down low, mostly because my trackIr lag at this altitude with enemy close up. But I had the feeling I could have done if that had not been the case, it might be the yak was cocky but the luxury of running away in a russian ground pounder you simply do not have 

Heh, the FW stalls all over the place.

Maybe give it a few hours more. First in YAK and 109 and THEN try the FW:P

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I think Luse is entitled to his opinion on how the aircraft handles, you know

[Irgendjemand]

I think Luse is entitled to his opinion on how the aircraft handles, you know

Oh really. Is that so?....................................

I thought noone had the right to express his opinion.............

Really.... The internet is so awesome. Everyday another laugh or something to shake your head upon PFFFFFF:P

Edited April 20, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Wulf]

Hmm, I tried all the planes after latest update, I find all of them easier to fly. What is up with that? There are less to none consequences for tight turns and slow speed. This goes for the FW 190 also.

I simply cannot understand why people claim it to be worser. I find it easier myself. I haven't taken it for a pure dogfight, but I did ground attack with it and manage to dodge two attacks and run away. At least one of them was a Yak. And I was down low. 

I simply do not go turn fights with a Yak down low, mostly because my trackIr lag at this altitude with enemy close up. But I had the feeling I could have done if that had not been the case, it might be the yak was cocky but the luxury of running away in a russian ground pounder you simply do not have 

 

 

Probably the best way to demonstrate your new found faith in the 190 is to put your reputation where your mouth is and try her in combat.  I believe Manfred's giving up his time providing free opportunities for true believers to kick Yak butt.

 

Sign up; strap on a 190, give Fred a good kicking and post the clip.   

[Irgendjemand]

The only chance the FW has is to run away half an hour to make enough separation for a turn and then risk a headon. Everything else is doomed to fail:)

Edited April 20, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Wulf]

The only chance the FW has is to run away half an hour to make enough separation for a turn and then risk a headon. Everything else is doomed to fail:)

 

 

...or, perhaps the 'old 190 guys' (and for the purposes of this discussion, they could probably be usefully defined as people who've actually flown the thing) have just become slow and jaded.  Maybe we've just lost our edge (assuming we ever actually had an edge).  That stuff happens you know.  

 

Maybe the new 190 guys (i.e. those who talk about the 190 but don't actually fly it) can show us how it's done. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by Wulf

[Lusekofte]

Probably the best way to demonstrate your new found faith in the 190 is to put your reputation where your mouth is and try her in combat.  I believe Manfred's giving up his time providing free opportunities for true believers to kick Yak butt.

 

Sign up; strap on a 190, give Fred a good kicking and post the clip.   

 

The only one here with a big mouth is you, I am fed up about your constant rude manner and attitude. One of the main reason I normally give a shait about anything regarding FM talk in this site is the likes of you. Absolutely nothing can be talked about without getting insulted in here by you and a few other. 

 I have flown the FW 190 several times just to see how "rubbish" it is, and I find it very easy to survive in. With the ability to stay away from trouble combined with a very impressive firepower , only prove that these debates are led by a small bunch of whining luftwaffe babies , the same people who go crying home to mummy every time a gunner shoot him down.  

I stay with my statement, if you fly a 190 and get shot down, you either did not pay attention or you fought the wrong way.  Like about anything flying in BOS BOM now, you simply fu** up big time if you get a stall. The JU 88 tolerate hard stick back almost forever in a turn, same goes for the PE 2 37 . Stalls I experienced in a FW 190 had to be provoked 

[Grancesc]

The only chance the FW has is to run away half an hour to make enough separation for a turn and then risk a headon. Everything else is doomed to fail:)

 

Since patch 1.201d I make all over again the same experience. It is hopeless to get used to such a flight behavior, let alone to enter with this FW in an aerial combat.

[Wulf]

The only one here with a big mouth is you, I am fed up about your constant rude manner and attitude. One of the main reason I normally give a shait about anything regarding FM talk in this site is the likes of you. Absolutely nothing can be talked about without getting insulted in here by you and a few other. 

 I have flown the FW 190 several times just to see how "rubbish" it is, and I find it very easy to survive in. With the ability to stay away from trouble combined with a very impressive firepower , only prove that these debates are led by a small bunch of whining luftwaffe babies , the same people who go crying home to mummy every time a gunner shoot him down.  

I stay with my statement, if you fly a 190 and get shot down, you either did not pay attention or you fought the wrong way.  Like about anything flying in BOS BOM now, you simply fu** up big time if you get a stall. The JU 88 tolerate hard stick back almost forever in a turn, same goes for the PE 2 37 . Stalls I experienced in a FW 190 had to be provoked 

 

 

As I said, those who talk about it (you) and those who actually fly it.  

 

Fight Manfred in his Yak.  Post the clip.  Show us how it's done.  Otherwise stop talking about something you know nothing about.  Your experience with AI (real or imagined) is of no interest to us.

[Irgendjemand]

The only one here with a big mouth is you, I am fed up about your constant rude manner and attitude. One of the main reason I normally give a shait about anything regarding FM talk in this site is the likes of you. Absolutely nothing can be talked about without getting insulted in here by you and a few other. 

 I have flown the FW 190 several times just to see how "rubbish" it is, and I find it very easy to survive in. With the ability to stay away from trouble combined with a very impressive firepower , only prove that these debates are led by a small bunch of whining luftwaffe babies , the same people who go crying home to mummy every time a gunner shoot him down.  

I stay with my statement, if you fly a 190 and get shot down, you either did not pay attention or you fought the wrong way.  Like about anything flying in BOS BOM now, you simply fu** up big time if you get a stall. The JU 88 tolerate hard stick back almost forever in a turn, same goes for the PE 2 37 . Stalls I experienced in a FW 190 had to be provoked 

Heh, the only one insulting here is actually - erm - you:)

And saying that everyone that encounters a stall in an FW has just "fu** up big time" is an insult to everyone not happy with FW stallbehavior right now. And thats LOTS of people.

Please do me a favor and go against Manfred in a YAK into a maneuverfight that ISNT a headon. If you dont stall once before you get whiped i give you big respect:)

Edited April 20, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Lusekofte]

Really, Wulf got the attitude in every topic about 190, and his answer is idiotic and provocative as always. I stated the reasons for not engaging in a dogfight. My rig cannot cope with this game in fast dogfights, TrackIr acting up. I have lost all interest for fighters, but I take on the fighter duty now and then. 

Flying the FW 190 is too me pure luxury, I normally fly planes not able to run away. 

I can absolutely not understand why people find the FW 190 to the point of unflyable, I find it very useful and if I bothered I think I would get myself some kills pretty fast. Some death too probably , but still.

I stayed away from the roll rate debate, but I o not agree on the FW 190 being a all round fighter. The anticipation by some people towards this plane is simply way off. You guys are describing a Dora

[StG2_Manfred]

I stayed away from the roll rate debate, but I o not agree on the FW 190 being a all round fighter. The anticipation by some people towards this plane is simply way off. You guys are describing a Dora

 

Sorry LuseKofte, but that's just not true and plenty of evidence for this is available, also brought up within this forum I think. Just think about its first appearance at the channel when Spitfires encountered her.... The A version was very competitve in dogfights, although she had flaws which I don't want to deny.

[Dr_Molenbeek]

Sorry LuseKofte, but that's just not true and plenty of evidence for this is available, also brought up within this forum I think. Just think about its first appearance at the channel when Spitfires encountered her.... The A version was very competitve in dogfights, although she had flaws which I don't want to deny.

 

Ssshhhhhhhhhhh...

 

Spitfires that have been shot down by Fw 190s over channel were "BnZoomed", end of story.

 

Everyone know that. 

[Turban]

Some people will just always want more than what the plane was supposed to do best.

 

They have best speed,best  survivability, best firepower, maneuverability at speed russians could never even dream of, etc....

 

But they also wanna turn and burn . Because all that is luftwaffe is supposed to be uber in every possible way.

 

Energy isn't a code word for afterburner you know.  You don't get to decide what your plane can do. The FW as amazing capabilities but people dismiss them because they want more, they want more speed, more maneuverability, more energy, more of everything !!!

 

It's ridiculous. 

 

And to all people who call others on their experience : Where is yours ?  You are being agressive with others claiming their opinion is worthless.

Wulf, where are your flight records ?  And you Irgendjemand ? What is your supposedly impressive flying experience ?

 

What right do you think you have to push others like that, when you have nothing on them ?

 

 

 

And that misinformation being spread by some , as if the FW 190 could ever rival the Spitfire in turn and burn.... lol ....

 

The FW always fought in the vertical rather than the horizontal, wether you like it or not !

Edited April 20, 2016 by Turban

[Irgendjemand]

Really, Wulf got the attitude in every topic about 190, and his answer is idiotic and provocative as always. I stated the reasons for not engaging in a dogfight. My rig cannot cope with this game in fast dogfights, TrackIr acting up. I have lost all interest for fighters, but I take on the fighter duty now and then. 

Flying the FW 190 is too me pure luxury, I normally fly planes not able to run away. 

I can absolutely not understand why people find the FW 190 to the point of unflyable, I find it very useful and if I bothered I think I would get myself some kills pretty fast. Some death too probably , but still.

I stayed away from the roll rate debate, but I o not agree on the FW 190 being a all round fighter. The anticipation by some people towards this plane is simply way off. You guys are describing a Dora

We dont want it to become a turnfighter. We want it to - not suck. Right now it just sucks.

I said that before. IMHO everything would have been fine and the threads about its FM wouldnt be so fat if theyd just corrected the climbrate and left everything else as it was. It was no turnfighter. And it was hard to fly well. But used properly it was really pleasantly to fly and performed well.

Right now it just falls out of the sky if you do "oversubscribed" a little -  anything but fly in a straight line. The plane is just no fun and a deathtrap if you dont just fly straight OR have 100 km heightadvantage to burn.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Turban]

We dont want it to become a turnfighter. We want it to - not suck. Right now it just sucks.

I said that before. IMHO everything would have been fine and the threads about its FM wouldnt be so fat if theyd just corrected the climbrate and left everything else as it was. It was no turnfighter. And it was hard to fly well. But used properly it was really pleasantly to fly and performed well.

Right now it just falls out of the sky if you do "oversubscribed" a little -  anything but fly in a straight line. The plane is just no fun and a deathtrap if you dont just fly straight OR have 100 km heightadvantage to burn.

 

Plenty of people online doing great with the FW 190 . And they don't just go in straight line.

 

Maybe see how they fly the plane and adapt (it's not that hard, it's a FW190 after all, it's not like it was the slowest, less armed, with the lowest diving speed, etc)

 

 

You guys want a plane that is so good that you won't even have to think and can just do everything and win.

[Stig]

Ssshhhhhhhhhhh...

 

Spitfires that have been shot down by Fw 190s over channel were "BnZoomed", end of story.

 

Everyone know that. 

 

You can't compare a video game with how things happened in WWII. There are more factors than just aircraft performance that have to be taken into account. 

[Willy__]

I said it once and I'll say it again: telling that the current FW is fine is just the same as saying the current P40 engine limitations is ok.

 

You have people that dont even own/fly the plane saying "l2p noob, dont turnfight" and they completely miss the point. Off course you can make the 190 work and be sucessfull with it, if you only engage with huge advantage you can make any plane work and be sucessfull with it, even with the i16. But that does not exclude the fact that the FW is borked, and if you're caught with your pants down theres little you can do besides running, and even that became more difficult to do so with 1.201 patch.

 

You guys fail to realise that we do not want an uber auto winning plane. In previous patch the 190 was a good plane, it was hard to fly and master, but it was very pleasant and fun ride.... not so much in the current patch.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Herr_Istruba

[Dr_Molenbeek]

You can't compare a video game with how things happened in WWII. There are more factors than just aircraft performance that have to be taken into account. 

 

My post was sarcastic.

 

What you say is what i kill myself trying to explain to people here.

[Irgendjemand]

I said it once and I'll say it again: telling that the current FW is fine is just the same as saying the current P40 engine limitations is ok.

 

You have people that dont even own/fly the plane saying "l2p noob, dont turnfight" and they completely miss the point. Off course you can make the 190 work and be sucessfull with it, if you only engage with huge advantage you can make any plane work and be sucessfull with it, even with the i16. But that does not exclude the fact that the FW is borked, and if you're caught with your pants down theres little you can do besides running, and even that became more difficult to do so with 1.201 patch.

 

You guys fail to realise that we do not want an uber auto winning plane. In previous patch the 190 was a good plane, it was hard to fly and master, but it was very pleasant and fun ride.... not so much in the current patch.

Signed!

[Stig]

My post was sarcastic.

 

What you say is what i kill myself trying to explain to people here.

 

So the way you fly and fight in the Fw is how it was flown and used by the pilots in WWII?

[seafireliv]

I had hoped these kinds of arguments ended on the old UBI Il2 forums. guess not.

 

And no doubt it will only get worst as the years go by...

[Dr_Molenbeek]

So the way you fly and fight in the Fw is how it was flown and used by the pilots in WWII?

 

What are you talking about ? 

[Irgendjemand]

Btw. Anyone tried to outdive the YAK-1 when flying a FW since the last patch?

Frieds tried and found that the FW is even on emergencypower in a shallow dive unable to generate any separation to speak of. They dove (co alt/same levelspeed (max of YAK at that height)) from 3k down to the deck in a shallow dive of like 20 to max 30 degree. The FW was not able to gain on the YAK. Only down on the deck the FW then slowly managed to generate separation. I think i dont have to mention that at the point the FW would have generated enough separation to consider itself safe it would have been shot to pieces long ago.

[Wulf]

So the way you fly and fight in the Fw is how it was flown and used by the pilots in WWII?

 

 

So how exactly was it flown and used by pilots in WW 2?  You were there so you would know?

 

What we do know is what the RAF had to say about their experience with the 190 and they say that unlike the 109s, the 190s were more than happy to oblige them with a dog fight.   Try that with the current 190 and see how long you last - assuming you actually fly it of course.

[9./JG27golani79]

What we do know is what the RAF had to say about their experience with the 190 and they say that unlike the 109s, the 190s were more than happy to oblige them with a dog fight. 

 

ahhh .. but it´s all anecdotal .. it doesn´t count ...

[Turban]

So how exactly was it flown and used by pilots in WW 2?  You were there so you would know?

 

What we do know is what the RAF had to say about their experience with the 190 and they say that unlike the 109s, the 190s were more than happy to oblige them with a dog fight.   Try that with the current 190 and see how long you last - assuming you actually fly it of course.

1) You didn't answer my question

2) You realize dogfight doesn't mean only horizontal turning fight ???  Because in the horizontal the FW would get toasted. The FW used the vertical to fight. And you can do that in BoS very well.

[Turban]

ahhh .. but it´s all anecdotal .. it doesn´t count ...

Well you guys (well, not you but others in this discussion) have dismissed flight reports from test pilots because the conclusions didn't fit your agenda.

 

Now you want people to take a vague made up statement as ultimate truth ??

 

lol. Double standard much.

[9./JG27golani79]

Well you guys (well, not you but others in this discussion) have dismissed flight reports from test pilots because the conclusions didn't fit your agenda.

 

tbh to a certain degree dismissing flight reports from pilots happens no matter which planes are being discussed.

 

I just wrote my little sarcastic comment cause this always was the case, is the case and I think it will never change.

[Stig]

So how exactly was it flown and used by pilots in WW 2?  You were there so you would know?

 

What we do know is what the RAF had to say about their experience with the 190 and they say that unlike the 109s, the 190s were more than happy to oblige them with a dog fight.   Try that with the current 190 and see how long you last - assuming you actually fly it of course.

 

Fortunately i wasn't, so no, I don't know exactly how the pilots did it back then. Seeing as they didn't have more than the one life, I'm guessing there way probabliy doesn't much resemble the way we do it in a video game.

I do fly the 190 (it's my favourite aircraft too), just not very well, but that is not the FM's fault (whether it's correct or not).

 

As to the RAF's experience? Well, in 1941 on the Channel front they were being beaten by 109's  mainly, it wasn't until spring '42, that all 6 Gruppen of Jg2 and Jg26 had converted to the 190.  Whether the RAF then took an even harder beating, I don't know.  

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

As to the RAF's experience? Well, in 1941 on the Channel front they were being beaten by 109's  mainly, it wasn't until spring '42, that all 6 Gruppen of Jg2 and Jg26 had converted to the 190.  Whether the RAF then took an even harder beating, I don't know.  

 

In 1942, RAF was very bloodly beaten by JG2 & 26, untill aug/sept., when Spitfire MkIX arrived.