Landing the Ju88?...

[Trooper117]

Landing the Ju88...Can anyone fill me in on the correct procedure...

 

 

Approach speed, rpm and ata setting.

 

Gear and flap speed limitations on release.

 

Final flap setting before touch down.

 

Touch down speed.

 

 

I know the dev's put up the specs for all the planes in game, but they also left out a lot of info relative info when actually flying the things.

Plus, now that the dust has settled after the Ju88 release, sometimes, people find that they have adopted or adapted the specification somewhat in game.

 

Many thanks for any relevant advice

 

 

 

 

 

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Keep the speed at 200. Only reduce to ~160 when you are just to hit the ground

[Asgar]

that's what works for me:

drop gear and first stage flaps at ~300km/h

drop second stage of flaps at 250km/h (trimming nose down helps)

drop speed down to 200 and keep it there. play wit the throttle, keep rpm at 2400 rpm (86%)

once you're close enough to the ground flare and cut your throttle. 

that usually results in a smooth landing for me.

[Jade_Monkey]

that's what works for me:

 

drop gear and first stage flaps at ~300km/h

 

drop second stage of flaps at 250km/h (trimming nose down helps)

 

drop speed down to 200 and keep it there. play wit the throttle, keep rpm at 2400 rpm (86%)

 

once you're close enough to the ground flare and cut your throttle.

 

that usually results in a smooth landing for me.

I just learnt there is more than one stage flap on the ju88. Good to know!

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

When in final you can usually cut throttle, deploy first stage of flaps and gear at below 300 km/h with centered trim. Once the aircraft drops the nose deploy second stage of flaps and make sure to counter any climb tendencies.

 

For final approach it's important to keep 200km/h. Hold your speed constant with your pitch attitude and contorll your sink rate with throttle (no more than 10 m/s). Usually it's ~ 40% for me.

 

When closing in the runway reduce your throttle a bit and start your flare. Touchdown speed with full flaps is about 160 km/h. Don't cut your throttle completely though or it will sag threw.

 

Once flared out watch the horizon and keep pulling to hold your pitch angle. If you're climbing reduce throttle, if sagging threw increase throttle slightly.

 

You of course can individualize your landing technique but personally I found the 88 to be a nice aircraft to land naturally without messing with trim or glide angle. If you do it by the books the aircraft will land almost by itself.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Bullets]

Stuka pretty much has it perfect, you don't need to touch the trim keep it neutral and on 2nd stage flaps at 200kph it shouldn't want to pitch up or down..   One thing to note though, as soon as you move from 1st stage flaps to 2nd the drag increases greatly so remember to add a little bit of throttle or you will find yourself "landing" sooner than you expected   

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

I'm finding that the runways are a bit short, especially  on take off with a full load, i'll run up the engines to almost full power, release the brakes but i.m still mowing the grass at the end of the runway as i get airbourne !! perhaps i should use a few decrees of flaps ?

[Jade_Monkey]

I'm finding that the runways are a bit short, especially on take off with a full load, i'll run up the engines to almost full power, release the brakes but i.m still mowing the grass at the end of the runway as i get airbourne !! perhaps i should use a few decrees of flaps ?

I find myself using flaps at the end of the runway for the same reasons.

 

Not sure what the proper way is though.

[Feathered_IV]

How do you activate a second stage of flaps?

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

by pressing the F key again.

 

also if in QMB you can look at the briefing window and get the specs for take off and landing configurations.

Edited April 13, 2016 by 71st_Mastiff

[Trooper117]

So you are saying the specs in the briefing tell you rpm, ata settings, plus correct speed and correct flap settings for take off and landing?

[Willy__]

 

 

So you are saying the specs in the briefing tell you rpm, ata settings, plus correct speed and correct flap settings for take off and landing?

 

Not on the briefing, but there is a tab near it that you can see the specs of the aircraft you're flying. You can also see it after you open the map (with "o" key) while flying if you need to.

[Asgar]

I'm finding that the runways are a bit short, especially  on take off with a full load, i'll run up the engines to almost full power, release the brakes but i.m still mowing the grass at the end of the runway as i get airbourne !! perhaps i should use a few decrees of flaps ?

no...not "a few degrees" but the take-off stage...you know, that why it's called the take-off stage

[Trooper117]

Not on the briefing, but there is a tab near it that you can see the specs of the aircraft you're flying. You can also see it after you open the map (with "o" key) while flying if you need to.

 

Yes mate, I know how to access them and where they are, but Mastiff says '' look at the briefing window and get the specs for take off and landing configurations''... I thought I have missed something, as there is only minimal info on take off and landing.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Dont get too fixed on ata, rpm and such, your main focus should be watching the runway and horizon while briefly looking at airspeed and sink rate.

For final I usually set my rpm to 2400 and leave it there until I've touched down. Theres no need to worry about ata since you've to adjust it constantly depending on the sitution.

 

Instrument fixation is a common issue with real pilots on landing.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[KpaxBos]

How do you activate a second stage of flaps?

Light on left :

flaps raised (Reise) :

 

first stage (Start) :

 

second stage (land) :

[Trooper117]

 

 

Instrument fixation is a common issue with real pilots on landing.

 

 

 

lol... I know, my flying instructor told me that... I took the information in. Much later he told me I'd become a 'seat of the pants' flyer, even saying my landings at the airfield resembled carrier landings because of my curved approach... Ah, happy days!

[Broadsword]

Landing? You are doing better than me. I can't get it in the air! :D

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Here you go...this is single engine flight but there is a section on landing about 3/4 of the way down

 

Source http://www.allworldwars.com/Ju-88-Flying-Operations-Manual.html

Edited April 14, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[III/JG2Gustav05]

I have a question here about ground handling. I found that it's impossible to make the plane move forward if you have only 1 engine works on a plane like He111 and Ju88. The plane just keeps turning around by its single gear no matter what you do. Same thing is going to happen in real life?

[Dakpilot]

If you look at D1 D2 in the image it gives an idea of why this is so

 

 

Thrust vector will always want to pivot A/C around other wheel, more so when it is the critical engine 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[seafireliv]

Dont get too fixed on ata, rpm and such, your main focus should be watching the runway and horizon while briefly looking at airspeed and sink rate.

Theres no need to worry about ata since you've to adjust it constantly depending on the sitution.

 

Instrument fixation is a common issue with real pilots on landing.

I tend to fly like this. I don`t get hung up on instruments when landing- And the graphics are so good now that it`s wholly easy to do.

But like someone else said, the runway always seems a tad too short.

[busdriver]

If you look at D1 D2 in the image it gives an idea of why this is so

 

Criticalengine1.jpg

 

Thrust vector will always want to pivot A/C around other wheel, more so when it is the critical engine 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

You might want to explain "critical engine"  and the concept of V_MCG, (then explain which engine is the critical one on the He-111 and Ju-88) to help these guys.

Edited April 14, 2016 by busdriver

[III/JG2Gustav05]

If you look at D1 D2 in the image it gives an idea of why this is so

 

Criticalengine1.jpg

 

Thrust vector will always want to pivot A/C around other wheel, more so when it is the critical engine 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

I believe that everyone here understand this fundamental thing. the question I have here is how much this tendency will happen on ground taxing, is this tendency too strong to make a taxing?

[Dakpilot]

On JU-88 and HE-111 the props rotate clockwise when looked at from behind the aircraft, so are similar to the GA aircraft picture I posted earlier, the centre of thrust will be on the downgoing blade, on the right

 

for a better understanding of critical engine this doc probably explains better than i could 

 

http://www.westwingsinc.com/Critical_Engine_1.pdf

 

In my experience taxiing on one engine is not recommended, especially starting, if you are being clever and know which turns you have to make.... it is possible to shut one engine after landing for fuel saving

 

As an aside, it is quite possible for a couple of people to rotate an aircraft the size of a JU-88 by manpower alone, the asymmetric thrust of one engine is easy enough to spin it around, rudder will not counter this, and brakes do not help in this situation

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited April 14, 2016 by Dakpilot

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

So I decided to make a landing tutorial for those who still have trouble landing the Ju-88. If you have issues following the steps pls tell me so I can explain things in more detail.

 

First off is the landing approach. As usual we aim for a steady glide path with a constant glide angle as indicated by the green line. This type of approach allows us to keep the aircraft stable and easily make corrections as nessecary. Other approach methods may work, too, but come with greater risk and require good knowledge of the aircraft to work out properly.

 

With that in mind, here's the video explaining the rest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMYVzXpWqPU

Edited April 16, 2016 by 5tuka

[LukeFF]

Very good video!

[busdriver]

5tuka that was a very impressive display! I did smile a bit where you emphasize putting the cross on the departure end of the runway. However I could tell your aim point is really the threshold of the runway (it's the one part of the runway that didn't drift up or down) and is where the yellow horizontal line in the gun site was aligned.

 

For the non-pilots reading this, you can tell where somebody is aiming (to land) as that spot stays basically in one place. If say, the threshold starts moving/drifting underneath the nose as you get closer, your aim point is beyond the threshold. Likewise, runway beyond the aim point will move/drift higher in your sight picture (out the windscreen) as you get closer. Pilots are taught to hold an aim point until they get down into the flare (or round out if you prefer) and then shift your gaze to the far end of the runway (horizon) to keep from simply slamming into the runway. By the same token, if the pilot shifts his gaze to the horizon too soon, the airplane will flare too high, and it will float down the runway.

 

Again, well done my hero!

Edited April 18, 2016 by busdriver

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

5tuka that was a very impressive display! I did smile a bit where you emphasize putting the cross on the departure end of the runway. However I could tell your aim point is really the threshold of the runway (it's the one part of the runway that didn't drift up or down) and is where the yellow horizontal line in the gun site was aligned.

Thx, glad you appreciate it Yes, on short runways (and aircraft carriers) my aim point is the end of the runway (I guess that's what treshold means?). I couldn't manage to keep it perfect as I was messing with flaps, trim, throttle and stick at the same time but you can kind of see it in the part where I mentioned the sinkrate and landing speed.

 

The reason for using the corsshair as refference btw. is because it usually is placed right in the middle of the screen and (roughly) alinged with the aircraft's nose. For aircraft with critical frontward visibility of the nose the gunsight can come in quite handy.

 

Also, this only works for a usual, flat glide approach though, which probably is the most reasonable way to land aircrafts as large as the Ju-88. If you go for a high approach your aim point is going to be different.

Edited April 18, 2016 by 5tuka

[xvii-Dietrich]

For the non-pilots reading this, you can tell where somebody is aiming (to land) as that spot stays basically in one place. If say, the threshold starts moving/drifting underneath the nose as you get closer, your aim point is beyond the threshold. Likewise, runway beyond the aim point will move/drift higher in your sight picture (out the windscreen) as you get closer. Pilots are taught to hold an aim point until the get down into the flare (or round out if you prefer) and then shift your gaze to the far end of the runway (horizon) to keep from simply slamming into the runway. By the same token, if the pilot shifts his gaze to the horizon too soon, the airplane will flare too high, and it will float down the runway.

 

Hmm... I'm not sure what you mean. Are there any videos that demonstrate this?

[busdriver]

Thx, glad you appreciate it Yes, on short runways (and aircraft carriers) my aim point is the end of the runway (I guess that's what treshold means?).

 

Also, this only works for a usual, flat glide approach though, which probably is the most reasonable way to land aircrafts as large as the Ju-88. If you go for a high approach your aim point is going to be different.

Indeed, threshold means the approach end of the runway.

 

Minor difference of opinion about having a different aim points for shallow, normal, or steep approaches. I was taught, and as a USAF instructor pilot in Phantoms, I taught students to use the same aim point every time. Using that technique, a pilot can better judge his performance in terms of airspeed, rate of descent, and power setting.

 

To that point, your tutorial is spot on.

[busdriver]

Dietrich, I don't make youtube vids, so I don't have an example. The classic aviation text by Wolfgang Langewiesche "Stick And Rudder" (written in 1944) has a better explanation and basic artwork of this concept. Maybe we can get Requiem to make one. I'll bug him about it.

 

Cheers!