Really, this unrealistic ground handling model needs to go!

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

EDIT: Tired yesterday and wrote backwards. Corrections made.

 

Honestly,

I find this ground modelling highly unrealistic.

 

1. Absolutely no physical connection between wheels and ground.

2. The Bf 110 swings to the left even when full RIGHT brake and rudder + full left throttle is applied. And I'm not talking of a mild gentle left turn.

Even trying to catch a tendency results in a carousel on the taxiway or runway.

3. A mysterious "magical" circle around the plane drawing objects where one thought it was clear to taxi

 

I've been playing flight sims since first IL-2, DCS, BMS and X-Plane and this is absolutely the most irritating and annoying thing I've experienced.

There is simply no way that it should be this difficult to taxi a plane and this is corroborated by the Luftwaffe footage of planes taxiing on make do airstrips.

 

That's my two cents and even though I really like this simulator I will stay away because I just get mad every time I try to taxi.

Edited April 13, 2016 by 1./ZG1_Goblin

[von_Tom]

Please clarify 2 as with full left brake it would turn left. Do you mean it turns right? Maybe full left engine counteracts the left brake to turn it right? I'm thinking there's a slight error in what you've said.

 

That aside taxiing seems ok to me and I cannot identify anything that is "wrong". Just my opinion though.

 

von Tom

Edited April 12, 2016 by von_Tom

[Turban]

When it comes to ground handling, my biggest "complaint" is that whenever i get slightly off the taxiway, it feels like the plane falls into a hole or something. 

 

The new airfields on the Moscow map are an absolute blast in comparison, they don't have the bumpy/chaotic ground behavior, I hope they update the Stalingrad map's physics some day 

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

Yeah, there is absolutely no gradation at all between the smooth taxiway and the peat bog. Makes it difficult for large 2 engine aircraft who have finer margins.

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

Correction made to first post.

[=FEW=Hauggy]

I agree it feels like driving a lowrider when taxiing...

[BlitzPig_EL]

Several of he old Blitzpigs have recently purchased the sim, and they all just laugh at the silly ground handling.

 

I warned them about it but being the stubborn Pigs that they are they didn't think it could possibly be as bad as I said...

 

Then they tried their first taxi/takeoff on our little server.

 

This "feature" is really hurting the sim in the eyes of a lot of players.  It's utterly unrealistic, and the stubbornness of the the devs in keeping it is mind numbing, at best.

[Ace_Pilto]

The taxiway widths are probably wrong for larger planes in some cases but the handling isn't unrealistic. It's just very difficult to manage when you can't "feel" the motion. One of my first posts here was about the same thing so I understand your pain and I still get caught out myself but believing that it is unmanageable only makes things worse. It's just not true and when you learn to do it the right way you'll see why.

 

Here are some tips to get out of common situations:

 

If you get caught in the rough, try a little forward pressure on the stick to take the weight off of the tail to get moving again. Be careful not to nose over. You might have to use a lot of power to get unstuck so be very gentle with the elevator.

 

If you're ground looping, lock the tail-wheel and keep the RPM up while rolling, not high enough to accelerate but high enough to get rudder response. It's important to note that you can still turn with a locked tailwheel. Only unlock the tailwheel for sharp turns at walking pace. If you can't lock the tail-wheel then taxi at walking pace at all times. Learn to control your acceleration, when you start to roll forwards, back off the RPM a little until you find a setting that keeps you moving forward without speeding you up too quickly and then use the brakes to manage your speed while leaving the RPM at the same setting. You won't wear out the brakes at taxi speeds so stomp on them all you want. Never go back to idle while trying to turn or your rudder will just wag like a dog's tail and do nothing while you spin around in embarrassing circles. 

 

On twin-engined aircraft, don't expect them to turn into the torque of both engines from a standing start because they won't, even single engined planes struggle with this. Reduce RPM on the inside engine and make sure you are moving forward at walking pace before you turn or you will be fighting both static friction and the torque of two engines! It's like driving a stalled 4WD out of the mud, you have to straighten the wheels to get it to move forwards or it tries to plow through and goes nowhere.

 

Also, only use fully fine prop pitch when taxiing.

Edited April 17, 2016 by VA_JimmyBlonde

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The fully fine prop pitch is probably the most important thing for taxiing as far as I am concerned.

[coconut]

 

 

It's just very difficult to manage when you can't "feel" the motion

Right! I find that 60FPS on the ground helps with that. Unfortunately, FPS is lowest on the ground, and getting that might force people to lower their settings unnecessarily low for flight. Because of that, I think many are running with 30FPS while taxing, and that does not help catching excessive turns early.

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

I'm running everything in ULTRA with FPS above 50 so no problem there.

The problem is the ground handling physics being, in my opinion, incorrect. Especially in Stalingrad map because the problem is most severe there, not in the other maps.

 

Also I have no problems in X-Plane and that is certified for FAA use! Also the differential braking is incorrectly modelled for Luftwaffe planes since you can use
a key for brakes and rudders for the differential.

 

Now I know that this is not a simulator per see but I still expected it to be more true to real handling in this aspect.

 

That said I'm not a pilot and therefore I could be completely wrong here but "it feels bad" and not as I understand it to really work from studying the real manuals
and documents from Luftwaffe.

 

The taxi instructions from captured aircraft states 2200 rpm ground running, not use brakes because of overheating.

The German manual states easy turning by throttling the appropriate engine taking care not exceeding 94 degrees temperature.

Very poor rudder authority due to small control surface and trim not effective in low speeds. Very much the opposite from the game.

However, it is a GAME! I have to do it the way it works in the game an not try to do it as in IRL.

Edited April 17, 2016 by 1./ZG1_Goblin

[coconut]

 

 

Also the differential braking is incorrectly modelled for Luftwaffe planes since you can use a key for brakes and rudders for the differential.

 

It's a convenience provided to people who don't have two brake pedals, but it doesn't have to be that way. You can assign individual axes to left and right brake pedals on German planes and on the P40. I personally find it easier to taxi in German planes because of this. I can always counter an excessive turn by tapping the outer brakes.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

From a different perspective, 16, 100 and 104 GIAP were grounded for a couple of days in the winter of 1945 because the airfield they operated from got muddy and aircraft were breaking landing gears and striking their props.

In desperation, 9 GIAD commander A. Pokryshkin suggested they try and lay bricks and whatever construction material they could find from destroyed houses in a city road near the airfield since it was wide enough. All pilots, mechanics and airfield staff worked in the bricklaying. A P-39 is taken to the road, and it takes off. It comes around, lands comfortably and slows down. The pilots are happy.

Seconds later, however, it taxies off the road to clear it and one of the gear's legs sinks into the ground and retracts.

Edited April 17, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

@coconut: I know, I have it mapped correctly but I read in a thread by sokol that it makes it easier to taxi with the other mapping so I will try it that way.

[707shap_Srbin]

 

It was well-known problem of nose-heavy Bf110, and wet earth or deep snow

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Note the He-111 nosed-over in the background.

[707shap_Srbin]

[SharpeXB]

Bf110_143 2_ZG76 StSola40.jpg050510-31.jpg

 

It was well-known problem of nose-heavy Bf110, and wet earth or deep snow

:-D

[Crump]

:-D

Do not feel bad....

 

It is like a gear up landing....

 

Only two groups of pilots in existence......those pilots that have done it and those that will.

[SharpeXB]

There may have been alcohol involved...

[seafireliv]

The taxiway widths are probably wrong for larger planes in some cases but the handling isn't unrealistic. It's just very difficult to manage when you can't "feel" the motion. One of my first posts here was about the same thing so I understand your pain and I still get caught out myself but believing that it is unmanageable only makes things worse. It's just not true and when you learn to do it the right way you'll see why.

 

Here are some tips to get out of common situations:

 

If you get caught in the rough, try a little forward pressure on the stick to take the weight off of the tail to get moving again. Be careful not to nose over. You might have to use a lot of power to get unstuck so be very gentle with the elevator.

 

If you're ground looping, lock the tail-wheel and keep the RPM up while rolling, not high enough to accelerate but high enough to get rudder response. It's important to note that you can still turn with a locked tailwheel. Only unlock the tailwheel for sharp turns at walking pace. If you can't lock the tail-wheel then taxi at walking pace at all times. Learn to control your acceleration, when you start to roll forwards, back off the RPM a little until you find a setting that keeps you moving forward without speeding you up too quickly and then use the brakes to manage your speed while leaving the RPM at the same setting. You won't wear out the brakes at taxi speeds so stomp on them all you want. Never go back to idle while trying to turn or your rudder will just wag like a dog's tail and do nothing while you spin around in embarrassing circles. 

 

On twin-engined aircraft, don't expect them to turn into the torque of both engines from a standing start because they won't, even single engined planes struggle with this. Reduce RPM on the inside engine and make sure you are moving forward at walking pace before you turn or you will be fighting both static friction and the torque of two engines! It's like driving a stalled 4WD out of the mud, you have to straighten the wheels to get it to move forwards or it tries to plow through and goes nowhere.

 

Also, only use fully fine prop pitch when taxiing.

Good info.

Getting caught in grass is like being sucked into some fantasy swamp of some medieval alternate universe. Your info helps. Cheers.

[69th_chuter]

It looks like many of those nose-standing 110s were the result of groundloops, not soft ground or "nose-heaviness".  Just my impression.

[CisTer-dB-]

It's way easier to taxi an aircraft then it is on this sim, I like the uneven terrain effect but it way to bouncy. I notice that the wind on the aircraft during taxi is a little off or it's effect not reflecting what we see in the windsock. In other words when I look at the windsock I can see the direction and it's speed and can taxi accordingly, On a tail drager the nose should always tent to veer into the wind, that is not always the case.

 

My 2 cent  

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Mission design error most of the time - due to bug, oversight or limitation, the direction of the windsock needs to be input by the mission designer. Sometimes the designer can forget that, and though the windsock is showing a 7 m/s wind it doesn't show the right direction, which leads to cumbersome take-off surprises.

[CisTer-dB-]

Oh I understand, thanks